Posts 5001-5500

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Message 5001 of 6736 Reply

Re: Initiative mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/11/01 12:41 pm
Von,

I could say the same as Thrandorian for the most part.

I have been looking for a shorter round system. I was getting annoyed with weapons and speed factors making some of the players go in segment 17!!!

To Umb and anyone else who this applies:
I do not think it is fair to drop the weapon speed factor and still inforce the spell casting time in combat. it gives an unfair advantage to the fighter wielding a Halberd when he goes on his initiative (With out the speed factor), but the mage must take time to cast.

I often look to Rolemaster and Runequest and see how they did stuff, and try to emulate it in our DnD sessions.

runequest had a 10 segment system. Weapons had speed factors, and I do not think there was any adjustment for a high dex. However, if you could come up with a combination of attacks that did used 10 or less you were premitted to use multiple attacks. (Runequest does not have levels) I played a half-giant with a troll maul (SF6) and could do a punch (SF3) or a Kick (SF4).

Rolemaster has % of round actions. it is also called ROLL master because the % dice are used a lot. You need 50% or your round left to make your main attack or cast a spell.

Drawing a weapon takes 30%, observing (looking for an opportuity and wathcing the others) takes 35%

Maneuvering takes a percentage roll. With a lot of luck you could perform many actions in a round.

In a straight out toe to toe situation the determination if initiative involves no dice!!! Weapon reach, size of combatants, and dexterity are used to determine who goes first.

When I run Ravenloft next I am goinf to drop the weapon SF, and the casting tim, and the Dex bonus. It becomes a straight die roll, not very interesting, but quick and simple.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 4997 by thrandorian

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Message 5002 of 6742 Reply

Improved Initiative Evertree
4/11/01 12:46 pm
Improved Initiative seems to be a wasted Feat.

It only helps you to be a little quicker as you first react in an encounter, but after that, it doens't matter anymore because everyone takes turns attacking. If you have a bad roll, then you are stuck with it for the entire combat. If you rolled each round, then the feat would have a little value.

If a person was a sort who specialized in some potent quick action, then it might be of use... held a Death Spell, a Charm, a Teleport, a Finesse Strike or Disarm. If you ar just meleeing or exchanging spells, then the quickness doesn't do a whole lot. One quick action per encounter.

On a whole, there are a couple of characters in my game with the feat and it generally doesn't matter that they have it. It's just like rolling a little better.

Does anyone really see a value to it if you roll only one initiative per encounter?


E. Gerhen


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Message 5003 of 6742 Reply

Re: Initiative Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/11/01 3:16 pm
<>

I knew I was going to start that argument again when I made my post (which is why I inserted that caveat). Figuring out weapon speeds for each weapon in each round of combat is a painstaking task. I run a low-magic campaign, so the casting time disadvantage works. If my players ever start raising objections to this (so far they have't) then I may reconsider, but for now it seems to work for everybody.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5001 by mattbcieri

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Message 5004 of 6742 Reply

PCs on a PC Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/11/01 3:20 pm
I'm trying something new this weekend. I have loaded CR2 and my documents on my work laptop, and will use it in the game to keep track of things instead of fidgeting thru papers and flipping thu the books. I normally use CR2 behind the scenes, but so far have never actually used a computer during play. I just want to see if it is really helpful or not.

Umbratikus


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Message 5005 of 6742 Reply

Re: Initiative vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/11/01 3:42 pm
Thrandorian, my system of combat came about because when I first started I was confused as to what the book was talking about with segments, rounds, and turns....I was 12-15. By the time I learned to comprehend the whole affair I still chose my way of doing combat. But basically it follows your Short Form formula.

To all others also...
As for weapon speed I just figure that it is included in the initiative, if a player rolls a 5 and his weapon speed is 2, then his character actually started the move in 3. No adding or subtracting just keeping it simple.

As for spells that take longer than the time remaining, it just continues in the next turn. There is no losing a spell, because each turn is not like a boxing match were a bell stops the action between turns. It all flows continuously. And the wizard still rolls for the next round but starting his count from the end of his last spell. Thus if a wizard rolls an 8 in the first turn and his spell takes 4 rounds, it goes off in round 2 of the second turn. Then if the wizard had rolled a 5 in the second turn he would be able to start to cast his spell on round 7. Yes, in this way the mage can get two 'attacks' in one turn but remember he had no attacks the first turn and there is no actual time stoppage. We the DMs have simply divided up the melee for convienence, fairness, and ease of play.

As for 'delaying a party', a PC or NPC can chose to do so (as a rear guard action). Allowing a wounded party member to escape, waiting for re-enforcements, recharging of a magic item, and such. They do this by claiming a defencive stand only; they get no attacks (unless their opponent rolls a critical miss...1), the character is always moving backwards, and no spells...weapons only are used. But the 'defender' gets a plus 4 to his armor class and a roll of 20 by the opponent does not constitute a critical hit. He can stop this at the beginning of any turn by just saying he wants to attack...losing his benefits.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 4997 by thrandorian

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Message 5006 of 6742 Reply

Re: Wizards vs. Clerics vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/11/01 5:03 pm
Has anyone gave any thought to the dual class...Mage-Cleric? Would you allow it in your world?

I have such a NPC, but it is the legendary lich, Brimorror. He started out as a lawful good cleric to the god, Banin. But when his wife was killed in an accident and Banin would not save her he turned to evil and sorcery. He DID lose the clerical abilities as he went after all the priests of Banin in revenge and later turned himself into a Lich (so he could continue to pursecute the Order of Banin). But over time he started to worship Nimias, god of Torture and Night (EVIL) to the point that he recieved clerical abilities from him. During the centuries of his existence he has become the All-High Priest of Nimias (12 lvl cleric), the undead mage called a Lich (18 lvl MU), and a pretty good cook (that is what he was before he became a priest the first time and stills 'enjoys' it, only the recipes now have elven maidens, paladin eyes, and such in them).
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 4981 by vonromig

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Message 5007 of 6742 Reply

Re: Improved Initiative thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/11/01 6:26 pm
Well Ev,
It kinda depends on how you allow that initiative to be used. If this "Jump" on the situatuation gives that player the oppertunity to warn the group to hide, hide himself, detect more of the nature, thus the weakness of an enemy, then I could see many uses. If it simply allows the player to go 1st once, I would let the player choose the round in which he goes 1st. Then it might save his life, the life of a companion etc.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5002 by Evertree

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Message 5008 of 6742 Reply

Re: Wizards vs. Clerics thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/11/01 6:50 pm
I have had two such Cleric-Magic Users. They were both devoted to their clerical precepts but as intelligent, enthusiastic young men, could not deny the power of magic. A few truly good magic users existed and their service was invaluable but they were few and often would not adventure and so required funding. Motivated by the goal of filling the churches need for direct, offensive, rapidly cast magic, they requested and received permission from the church of Freya. (My favorite god-babe!). The church used them in quests and benefited by having 2 magic users whose very souls depended on their continued obedience.

Actually good clerics use fire and pain and fear spells. Magic user spells are no more or less evil in nature. Just like the spear of vile, The javelin of light has a sharp point and it's use is to puncture flesh. (ooo A metaphor)

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5006 by vonromig

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Message 5009 of 6742 Reply

Re: No references thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/11/01 9:16 pm
I know how you guys feel,
I have run only 7 or 8 months as a player and this was years ago. If you are like me you probably wish there had been someone who could have given you the same opportunity to test your player skills you work to provide others. I have played in short campaigns once or twice with other DM's but it was short lived and frankly minimally challenging.
If someone here created an on-line game for high level play it might satisfy some of that unrequited craving. If that does occur I at least would be interested.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 4900 by lycantherope_69

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Message 5010 of 6742 Reply

World of Greyhawk orgruff
(33/M/The lucky country) 4/11/01 9:54 pm
Has anyone got any campaign background material on the Keoland, Ulek, Wild Coast region of the World of Greyhawk. At present I have some maps and thats about it.

If you can help please Email me at:
orgruff@yahoo.co.uk

Thanks, Orgruff


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Message 5011 of 6742 Reply

Re: Wizards vs. Clerics shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 4/12/01 6:50 am
My favorite 1e PC was a half-elf Cleric-Magic User .. we played that XP were divided among the classes based on role-playing and how much impact each aspect of the character had in the adventure. He advanced quickly to 3rd or 4th level Cleric (while still only 1st or 2nd level MU), before he acquired a couple of useful spells from a defeated foes' spell book ..

His background was that he was a human mages' son, and his elven mother died giving birth to him .. his father tried to rear him for a few years, but then gave up to continue his adventures, abandoning his son near a chuch to Mystona (God of all the Races .. equality among all beings .. half-breeds are it's (Mystona appears equally often as male or female as well) chosen) .. the priests raised him, taught him their ways, but his human spirit led him to adventure, and dedication to his father led him to study magic.

He was C:9/MU:10 when we last played (years ago), and was extremely useful in nearly every situation. I was a bit of a munchkin when I made him, thinking I would get the best of both worlds, but I quickly developed a personality for him and he nearly sacrificed himself on more than one occaision for his friends or beliefs, while trying to balance out his "chaotic good" nature.

All in all, he was a very fun character to play.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5008 by thrandorian

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Message 5012 of 6742 Reply

Re: Initiative (Casting) wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/12/01 9:45 am
Sounds like you are on the right track Evertree.

Evertree-

I can see that if you get hit while trying to cast a spell, then that spell could get disrupted. But saving with the concentration skill in 3e, you could still cast it. So I can see that up to your initiative score, you are trying to think of a spell to use, just like that song. Then you would start to cast it.

So with that in mind Evertree, Are you saying that if you got hit prior to your initiative score, that hit would not effect, what-so-ever, you casting your spell?

The spells in 3e that are 1 action, would you consider that to be 1 initiative point? Thus if you rolled a 14, and casted a 1 action spell, that that spell would go off on 15? And if it did go off on 15, then if an enemy had an initiative roll of 15, he would get a chance to disrupt that spell before it goes off, initiative rolls of 16-20 would not get that chance to disrupt it.


Vonromig-

You say that before you get to act on your initiative score, you would be bobbing and weaving to find an opening to attack. If a wizard is doing that much movement, then he wouldn't be able to cast a spell. As for that opening, how much of an opening would you need to cast a fireball spell to blast your enemy into the wall? LOL

Wouldn't you think that if your wizard got into hand-to-hand, that that should negate him from being able to cast spells?


Thanks

Wixlar Xeoric (Abjurer)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5000 by Evertree

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Message 5013 of 6742 Reply

Re: Improved Initiative wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/12/01 9:51 am
Evertree-

In this world of dying, every "+" is a helpful "+". You remeber that time that you tried killing that Orc and needed a 15 to kill it, but only rolled a 14. I bet you said to yourself, if I only rolled a 15. Well if you had that modifier of "+1", then you would of killed that Orc.

Same way with that "Improved Initiative" Feat. I use that with all of my characters. Heck yeah, to get an extra "+4" on my initiative score, I will take it. And if you don't want it.... then hell yeah, I will take yours also... LOL

If you don't take that Improved Initiative Feat, what do you take in its place all of the time?


All-in-all.... If you can take something, anything, that will give you a "+", TAKE IT MAN....


See you on the good side of the battle field...

Wixlar Xeoric (Abjurer)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5002 by Evertree

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Message 5014 of 6742 Reply

Re: Improved Initiative Calitrojan
4/12/01 12:39 pm
My party has taken to the habit of planning out their characters to the higher levels (one of them plans out his PC to 20th level, skills, feats, spells that he hopes to find, etc). They find that a lot of the feats they find valuable in the beginning are near useless to them in the end, though none of them have made it that far yet.

However, characters such as rogues where they have abilities that rely on them getting the drop on their victims seem to always take improved initiative, as well as have high Listen and Spot modifiers. This way they are never surprised and usually get the upper hand in a combat, making it so that they can deal out their sneak attacks and warn the others. Most of my party's fighters and clerics don't take the feat. They rely on their sheer strength and cunning to defeat the enemy, wading in and going toe-to-toe... or falling back and firing their ranged weapon into the crowd. Magic using characters tend to take it more than not.

As far as being set into one intiative at the beginning of the encounter, this is not always true. You can always refocus, hold and action, or ready an action to adapt your initiative to the situation. I allow refocusing characters to use their improved initiative bonus, usually giving them a 24-28 initiative after the refocus... almost always putting them at the front of the encounter cycle.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5013 by wixlar_xeoric

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Message 5015 of 6742 Reply

Re: Initiative (Casting) vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/12/01 3:16 pm
Good Sir Xeoric, I don't think their just 'bobbing and weaving', their weapons are making contact as you see in any sword fight on TV or in the movies. It is only during your initiative round that an opening in the opponent's defense allows the skill of the one to try and best the skill and armor of another, and make a hit. As for the wizard he isn't actually bobbing and weaving either, for unless he is alone, he has to move in ways to see past his friends in melee to use line-of-sight spell (Magic missiles, lightning bolts, etc) and see where the enemies are to use area-effected spells (don't want to catch a compadre in the fireball spell radius) ALL of this while staying out of reach of bad-guy swords and watching for ranged weapons. Of course this is all academic, the reason why one person or thing attacks on its initiative round is just the rules and keeps things even and fair. To add justification as to why or what happens between one person's attack and the next is nick-picking anyways. Each player and DM see the combat in his/hers mind's-eye differently.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5012 by wixlar_xeoric

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Message 5016 of 6742 Reply

Re: Wizards vs. Clerics thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/12/01 4:53 pm
I believe as long as you are a cleric 1st, you can be a MU, F, theif, even an assassin if the story makes sense.

Remember Clint Eastwood as Preacher with a gun? Sometimes even god has to kick a little ass and will use worldly means to do so.
T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5011 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 5017 of 6742 Reply

Re: Initiative (Casting) thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/12/01 5:45 pm
How I see bobbing and weaving during combat:

In order for a magic user to cast any spell other than a “verbal-only”, when engaged in any hand to hand combat (and they cannot physically attack that round), I negate the spellcasters Dex bonus and if face to face with an opponent, give that opponent automatic first attack. I do this for the same reason Von was stating. That all time is actually spent in attacking but that dodging, parrying, positioning feet, arms, body etc., are all part of the process. Charging an opponent is the antithesis.
Furthermore, hit points of damage may not actually be cuts or physical damage (that however is a different subject)

Depending on the circumstances including casting time of spell and attack ability of the opponent, I give the appropriate number of attacks against the caster, no dex bonus on AC. A hit is an automatic spell failure.
In general a caster must be shielded from attack by another party member, be flying with no Arial opposition or in some fashion be exempt from attack in order to cast freely.

This way I think a party is encouraged to act as a team. Non spellcasters, Protect your magic-User (or cleric) and he makes things go boom. Spellcasters, don’t piss off your partners and you will get to make things go boom. Kinda like a football team. Bubba and Poindexter are a fearsome duo!

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5015 by vonromig

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Message 5018 of 6742 Reply

Hey, Planscape experts, can you help? pvandyck_99
4/12/01 6:03 pm
I'm a longtime DM, and have a passing familiarity with the Planscape setting (I have the boxed set), but I never really liked it. I really enjoyed the Planscape Torment game for the PC, so I started to see it's possibilities.

My players and I are looking for a smooth way to shut-down our long-running 2nd ed campaign. We are retiring all the characters into NPCs and I would like to have the ending adventure be fun and nostalgic, with the party confronting some old NPC enemies.


I recently got the Die Vecna, Die! module, and I am very enthused that this will be our ending adventure. The campaign has some history with Vecna, having played Vecna Lives! Also, they have a real hatred of Ravenloft, having been forced to adventure there for about 3 modules. Die Vecena, Die has these elements, and I will add the rest of the campaign-specific stuff I need.

Warning - some spoiler info follows:
Die Vecna Die also has Planescape elements. The last part of the adventure is set in Sigil. Vecna actually sets up camp and starts to shred the multiverse at this point. (In my campaign, this shakeup of the laws of the universe will actually explain 3rd edition.)

One part of the module talks about the place in Sigil where Vecna sets up shop, the Armory. Little is really explained about this building, other than a Sigil native may tell the players it’s the site of some shake-up that happened recently. Also a note early in the module indicates that the Doomguard (some bad faction in the Planescape universe) helped the Cult of Vecna acquire it and get it ready.

I would like to make this Armory more interesting and mold it into my campaign by giving it more significance. Tying that significance to actual Planescape events (in Planscape books or modules) would be even better. If anyone has heard of this Armory, because you are a Planescape expert and read the Planescape novels (which I assume there are, just like all the Forgotten Realms novels that I never read), please let me know. If there's some online fan sites that could help great. I'm not looking to spend a fortune on (now defunct) Planescape stuff just to figure this out. I've checked my Planescape boxed set, nothing.

Thanks in advance!
P


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Message 5019 of 6742 Reply

Re: Wizards vs. Clerics Evertree
4/12/01 7:07 pm
Clint Eastwood?

How about Jon Shannow, the Jerusalem Man?

From David Gemmell's Stones of Power series.


E.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5016 by thrandorian

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Message 5020 of 6742 Reply

Re: Hey, Planscape experts, can you help Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/13/01 8:45 am
The Armory is the faction headquarters of either the Doomguard or the Mercykillers, I don't remember which. I believe there is a map of the armory and some descriptive info in the Factol's Manifesto. I don't have access to mine right now, or I would scan it in and send it to you. Maybe you could find it at the library, or get it cheap off of eBay or something. You could also check the Mimir site. It might have something. (http://www.mimir.net/main.shtml)

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5018 by pvandyck_99

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Message 5021 of 6742 Reply

Re: Hey, Planscape experts, can you help x_zone15
(M/New Ulm, MN) 4/13/01 6:44 pm
The Doomguard's faction headquarters is the Armory, the Mercykillers control the Prison.

X, The gamer formally known as The Darklord of Ravenloft.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5020 by Umbratikus

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Message 5022 of 6742 Reply

DM Puzzler #1 vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/13/01 9:24 pm
This is the first in this series of puzzles that the players could put you through. The actions of the players that can give the DM an headache in bringing forth a realistic and enjoyable solution. I will go first, and hope that the other members give their views and ideas on this, and when everyone has had time to respond another member can bring up the next puzzle (they do not have to be ones that you experienced, the puzzles can be made-up, like 'What Ifs').

Puzzle #1:
The party is approaching a village that sits outside of the Giant's Keep (the one you want them to explore and where they are heading for). But one of the players (Tommy the Terrible)thinks that the Keep will be to strong for their group and decides to advertise in the village for help. The problem is that the village was created there as a backdrop to the Keep's original owners before the giant moved in and thus you (DM) have no prepared info on the villagers. So you say that noboby answers the ad, their all just farmers and scared. Tommy the T. then decides that it would best to look for help in other nearby villages or towns. You can't just come out and say that the group is more then enough to take on the giant...that would give away the fact that the adventure is weak and you plan for the giant to befriend the party for use in a later portion of the campaign. And for the party to rally up a group of villagers or such to kill him would be hard to bring this ally into the party's confidence. The more you withhold outside help the more convinced ol'Tommy is of the danger until the whole party starts to feel that way...

DM foreknowledge;
1) The giant is a badly ill, lawful good cloud giant that the party's cleric could heal.
2) The rumors around the place says its a powerful Fire Giant...started by the cloud giant to keep away enemies while he's in such a weakened state.
3) The giant as an ally would help them get into a cloud city where the magical Orb of Reuz resides, the very thing they need to stop the famine that is ravishing their homeland.
4) The party is made up of Tommy the fighter, Clarence the cleric, Billy the Thief, and Quinn the Magic-user.
What do you do now?
Von Romig


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Message 5023 of 6742 Reply

Re: Improved Initiative gedvondur
(30/M/Green Bay, WI) 4/13/01 11:25 pm
Well, one action you can take, mind, its a full round action, is re-focus. You then get an automatic "20" + any initiative modifiers...

I haven't made a verdict on this yet...

I do know that having only one init, makes combat faster. We put the order up on a dust board and I make a quick "master order" with the monster's individual inits and you can just zoom down the list. Keeps combat going nicely, but there is a little something lost without random inits...


Gedvondur
DM--Legion of the Red Paw

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5002 by Evertree

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Message 5024 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #1 Danduin_
(31/M/Cinti OH) 4/14/01 12:10 am
Give in. Let the party interview some applicants. I am sure that there are more than a couple "wanna be" adventurers around. The party could give the best candidate a sword, tell him that the smooth end is the end you hold on to and the pointy end is used to poke your enemies. I imagine that the villagers are not 5th level or even 2nd level. Make sure you point this fact out. . . ."your newest party member(s) seem a bit unexperienced. . ." etc. Have them make every silly mistake you can think of. Remember to mention responsibility to the group. As in they are responsible for his(her, their) welfare.

Skipping the inept angle is to make the only applicant (because he bullied (beat,threatened, etc.) everyone else into not applying)someone you would not wish upon your worst enemy.

Contempt is a good motivator. . ."You're the mighty adventurers, what's the matter you scared of ther big man? You have to ask us, the simple farmers, to help you? By what right do you call yourself a warrior? Did you punch out a kobold once? Go deal with the giant or leave, if you are a not man enough. Do your job and we will do ours."

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5022 by vonromig

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Message 5025 of 6742 Reply

Re: MetaMorphosis Alpha Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 4/14/01 1:47 am
<>

the book was Orphans in(of?)the Sky. the storyline was divided into two short stories titled "Universe" and "Commonsense"

big RAH fan, if you couldn't tell.
never thirst

This Is a Reply to: Msg 4913 by lfnotter

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Message 5026 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #1 kwan_darkwood
(21/M) 4/14/01 12:25 pm
They are staying at the inn of the small town when Clarence the Cleric has a dream in which his deity comes to him and tells him that he must do his job before it is too late. Or, Quinn the Mage could consult a sage who would also suggest that they proceed forth to do their duty.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5022 by vonromig

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Message 5027 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #1 thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/14/01 5:09 pm
OK Von, here’s what I'd do,

1st I would roll before saying no decent help was available locally. There might only be a 20% chance with another roll for level (weighted to lower level). I go out of my way NOT to prepare such info. My players get to see a die roll, as such don't feel I've pre-set the conditions and accept almost any outcome with credibility and acceptance.
I usually let the chips fall and ride with whatever happens. I see many possible scenarios :

1) no help found proceed as planned.

2) party gets help. Lots of help would be GREAT! Party could come to realize that the giant is actually good but now the villagers have been whipped-up into such a frenzy generated by the players and wont believe that the giant is good. Now the group has to figure out how to save the giant. Maybe the facts don't come out till the last minute. Now the party has an interesting problem and learns not to judge a book by it's reported cover.

3) Party finds adventurer(s) help for sale. They are one of the following:
a) An evil party who will eventually be in conflict with the group when they of course want to kill the giant whether he's good or not.
b) A good or neutral party that will still want payment when the party decides not to take the giants treasure.

I like the premise. I would be inclined to favor the crazed townspeople scenario as there are potential Frankenstein over tones there. Did you come up with it yourself or get it from a module? It's very simple and has the potential for allot of fun, a-typical role play.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5022 by vonromig

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Message 5028 of 6742 Reply

d20 Licensing Agreement is a GOOD thing! adaen
(27/M/New Jersey) 4/14/01 5:49 pm
This is my first post, though I've been monitoring this club to some degree or other for a while. I've played D&D (in its various forms), Top Sectet (and SI), Star Frontiers, MERP, RoleMaster (Rest in Peace), CarWars, StarFleetBattles, and other games that don't warrant mentioning (yet) since I learned to play in 1984 (not that it matters). If you've seen the WoTC Webpage Prodigal Gamer section, that's pretty much where I am. I had a hiatus of ~5 years that came to an end less than a year ago when I began playing 2nd Edition D&D with a new group for the first time (I'd been a 1st Ed holdout until then and still prefer it to 2E).

Recently, I've bought the 3E books (my 2E group is switching soon) and I'm begining my own 3E group as well.

Let me praise the WoTC d20 liscensing Agreement here and now! The resulting products that I've seen, especially from Necromancer Games ("3E with a 1E feel at www.necromancergames.com) and Penumbra/Atlas Games (at www.atlas-games.com and www.penumbrad20.com) are fantastic!

To be honest, I haven't actually bought any WoTC adventures (b/c my current 2E-3E DM asked me not too.....he's going to use them), but I am really impressed with the excellence of these "upstart" companies. Take a look, you'll be impressed.

Any other "prodigal gamers" out there?

-Adaen


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Message 5029 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #1 vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/14/01 6:39 pm
Actually I was the 'Tommy the Terrible' player. I was so use to my way of playing that when I joined this younger group I was thinking long-term and more in keeping with my character. The giant in the keep is from some module the DM had and that is all they were playing...no major campaign stuff, just a few sessions per module type play. What I did was mess up his thinking, but not in the way my puzzle is, the puzzle is just another reworking of what happened to me and the DM...

I was playing the thief, Zequixek Panguardian, and the group was to go and kill this giant in a keep that was threatening a nearby village. But once we got to the village I found out how poor the place was and that with the Start-up gold the DM gave me I could buy half the town....so I started to. I bought farms, the tavern, the lumbermill, the wretched people's homes...spent almost all my money. My plan was to 'own' the village and then when we cleared out the giant, the Keep would be mine. I would become the Lord of the area, maybe claim myself a Baron or Duke depending on how the DM ran the King or whoever. But eventually the DM broke down and just told me that after clearing the giant it would be the end of the module and thus the game...someone else would be the DM then. So I forsakened my ideas and we went and killed the giant. For my puzzle I just elaborated on this scenario more and gave it a few twists.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5027 by thrandorian

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Message 5030 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #1 mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/14/01 9:24 pm
Let them hire Joxer the mighty from Hugk and Xena!!!!!!!!


Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5024 by Danduin

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Message 5031 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #1 vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/14/01 10:02 pm
Well they tried but Joxer and Xena were unavailable, but the idea of the DM allowing two or more 'heroes', that just happen to be in the area, to join may have been a good compremise. It would have given Tommy what he needed and kept the storyline for the DM...as he would control the new characters.
Keep the ideas and your solutions coming.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5030 by mattbcieri

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Re: DM Puzzler #1 the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden
4/14/01 10:38 pm
Like someone mentioned early, have the group find some adventures for hire who are actually "bad guys". These bad guys have come into one of the towns, heard the rumor of the giant and seen a chance for some easy gold. They have spread rumor started by the giant and have added a great deal of emphasis on how strong the giant is during their spreading of the tale. They lure wandering adventures in with the rumor, offer their help to these adventures and then screw the adventurers over and take their gold and equipment.

Well when the party and the group of bad guys go to kill the giant, the bad guys turn on the party members (as they had planned) and a fight ensues. The bad guys are pretty strong and begin to get the best of the party, but during the battle the giant sees whats happening and comes to the party's aide. Thats how the characters realize that the giant is good and thus eventually befriend it and gain its help.

:)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5031 by vonromig

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Message 5033 of 6742 Reply

World Building 6- The World vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/14/01 10:50 pm
Now that you have all of your kingdoms mapped and designed we will put them together.

On a larger sheet of paper (I perfer to use posterboard) transfer your kingdoms. Much like a jigsaw puzzle, but they don't have to fit perfectly or even connected. Just ensure that the port cities are positioned so that they will face the sea. Now connect the kingdoms by coastlines; encircling all or most of the kingdoms...you can have island kingdoms you know. Even drawing the coast around large unclaimed areas to be used later as elven, orcish, etc lands or as wilderness regions.

My one thought is that you don't make your world a whole continient, have the land 'move' off one or two sides (corner) of the map. For although you're creating your 'world' you are not really designing a whole planet, think much like a map of Europe would look like without Russia. This is for several reasons; 1) An enclosed world limits future expansion of your world by land. 2) Gives the area to much space...medieval societies were small, think the space of Europe. 3) Gives the allure of unchartered terrain and mysterious regions from were barbarians can sweep in from. 4) To me, looks silly.

Now edit the maps borders and terrain. Redraw the borders of some kingdoms to touch; divide others with large mountain ranges that no one claims (their to wild); separate two with maybe a vast swamp or everglade region; another border filler could be a desert or even a lake. Just add whatever looks good and makes sense...a northern hemishere world has cold, snowy regions in the north (top of map) and jungles and deserts in the south (equator-bottom of map). If you had the forethought to create different climate-oriented societies (Egyptian desert empire, Aztec jungle kingdom, Mongol plains tribal region, etc) be sure they are located and supported by your map. Be kind of funny to have an 'egypt' in the icy wastelands of the north. And remember to use the terrain that you have put into your kingdom's map, the land forms don't stop at the realm's border.

Use as many types of terrain as possible without making it look to crowded or non-sensical. This gives you more adventuring options in future games. And keep editing until it looks good to you and is something you can work with.
Next World Building 6a- World Stats
Von Romig


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World Building 6a- World Stats vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/14/01 11:55 pm
Depending on how detailed and pre-planned you want to be you can skip this part altogether.

(Discussing these within the context of this message board would be to extensive, so I will only give the basics)

A) Climate: If your map is of the northern hemishere the winds travel from the north to the center of the map and from the south to center most of the time. Where they meet they form a shifting line of fast moving air called the 'jet stream'. Thus on your map if you visualize this you can see where the wind flows from land to water and from water to land. If the wind moves over water to the land (wet air) this region of terrain would get MORE rain fall then areas that the air currents move from land to sea (dry air). Understand? If mountains block 'wet air' flow then large rivers form from that side of the mountain and flows down into the flatter regions, the other side would be dryer and if they were high enough form deserts. This should give you a little in placing rivers and calculating percipitation.

B) Weather: In the Summertime the winds move faster in the south (bottom of map) and slower in the north (top) and the opposite in winter. Faster moving air currents causes more weather variations and thus 'harsher' weather. Storms more in the north during winter (blizzards) and more in the south during summer (hurricanes). Keep this in mind when planning weather conditions.

C) Calendar Events: Divide your map up into large distinguishable regions (frozen waste lands, the great plains, the grand valley, dark jungle, etc) and for every region make up a year-long calendar. I use one that has twelve months, each with 30 days...a 360 day year, makes it all simple. Then using the regions climate and weather patterns as stated above fill in the days with the Average Temperture, Rainfall Amount With Percentage, and Storm Hazzard Percentage. Something like this; March 10th: 58o, 0-1"-30%, 5%...Sept 11th: 63o, 2-3"-20%, 15%....Now these are only the averages and something that, if you wish, can be used to roll against to determine weather. I use these Regional-Calandar Charts to make up a calender with the actual temps and weather for the year in the region that the players are adventuring in...so therefore I have something to look at to know the weather on any given day as we play. Surprising the twists to an adventure, when months before in making the calendar, I have a massive thunderstorm shown just when the players wish to take a sea trip...and its not like I just added it to screw with the players. (It also helps in creating a truer world order if players time-travel AND/OR gives correct, and with no need to memorize, future weather events for PC that use future seeing spells or devices.)

Now go back over all the sections and info you have on your world and make sure it all 'works'.

Next World Building 7- Power Bases
Von Romig


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Re: World Building 6- The World DiscordianStooge
(21/M/Mankato, MN) 4/15/01 1:29 am
I love these tips. very useful.
In regards to climate, remember that the Earths setup is due to land masses being bunched to the north. It is just as likely to have cold in the north and south. The hot areas will be at the equator area, and colder as you leave the center.
It can stir things up a bit to put deserts in cold areas (like the Gobi- Rock deserts can be a great adventure), as well as non-tropical rainforests (like the area just south of Alaska), though these must be on coasts to permit the wet weather without freezing. Large mounts of plant growth and huge trees in a cold, rainy area can wreak havoc on a party.
Have fun with climate especially. This can throw off the party, when they head to the far north, provisioned with winter supplies, only to find out it is a tropical wetland. It will make them realize that your world is not the same as the one in which we live, and make them think just a bit more.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5033 by vonromig

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Message 5036 of 6742 Reply

Crossovers lycantherope_69
4/15/01 4:34 pm
Has anyone DM-ed, or played in a crossover game with any of the other TSR titles? (Especially Gamma World, Metamorphosis Alpha, and Boot Hill?) I'm just wondering how that went, how smooth the cross over was, and how it was accepted by the PC's.


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Re: Crossovers vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/15/01 7:16 pm
Not only did I start playing RPGs in cross-over mode, but eventually I had Gamma World, Traveller, Star Frontiers, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, and several GURPS additions, as well as my world, Brunmaldar. And since I could find few to play all but the D&D variants I created a campaign that involved Dimensional Portals. As the PCs entered a portal they found themselves in different parts of the other gaming systems. From there the had to find another portal to enter to get back home. It took awhile for the players to get into it, until they discovered the hidden plotline that brought it all together.

To move from a D&D world into any other title or system their should be a good reason. Not just for the change itself or to trick the players into gaming in the other world(s).

But overall the experience of cross-over adventuring was very enjoyable. (It was always funny for me and the players when their D&D-oriented character came upon sci-fi stuff..."Watch out! They got lightning wands (lasers)!") If you can come up with a genuine reason for the cross-over I would say go for it, you and your players will have fun.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5036 by lycantherope_69

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Re: Hey, Planscape experts, can you help knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 4/16/01 1:54 am
The Mimir's got nothing left anymore, you'd have better luck at http://www.planewalker.com or you can ask me more questions at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

Anyways, good luck with your campaign! 'Die, Vecna, Die' is a great adventure in my opinion!!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5020 by Umbratikus

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Message 5039 of 6742 Reply

Re: TSR Crossovers knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 4/16/01 2:00 am
Well, one of my players has tried to crossover Marvel characters from the original Marvel Super Heroes RPG to AD&D 2nd edition and I hated the characters.

In my opinion, have the characters were too powerful, because he wanted them this way or that, and he often hated my conversions of the characters, which his cousin would end up taking and loved!!!

Some of the characters I converted were:
Omega Red
Gambit
Kurse
Sabretooth
Wolverine
Deadpool
Psylocke
Wolverine
Apocalypse

Non-Marvel:
Blanka
Vega

I don't mind players trying new ideas, whether original or not, but I hate unbalancing a game!!!
-K6

Marvel Super Heroes Club
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/anewuniversecomethforth

AD&D
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5036 by lycantherope_69

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Re: DM Puzzler #1 dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 4/16/01 7:12 am
I would have to say it wouls all depend on what the PC's wanted to do, if they got it in their head to form a "peasent army" adn roleplayed it correctly then the army would be formed, it all might change when they get to see the ill giant but thats how it would have to go for me, and by the time they got their the Peasent Army might be all worked up and set on the death of the giant any way, which woul donce again cause problems ::grin::

I never worry about ruining my adventure at the sake of restricting what the players want to do..

Cheers
DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
Dungeons & Dragons Community Council
http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5022 by vonromig

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Re: PCs on a PC dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 4/16/01 7:29 am
How did it go Umbratikus??
You know wherelse you can tell me if you like..

Cheers
DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
Dungeons & Dragons Community Council
http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5004 by Umbratikus

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Re: Initiative dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 4/16/01 7:33 am
I'm not a "rules monkey" at all, :), I keep my inititive real simple...d10+Dex Bonus....if someone with a small weapon is attacking a larger weapon or spellcaster etc, I figure it out in my head how I see it happening and apply it to play, and never found a problem with it, it keeps the comabt moveing smoothly and has always worked for me..

Cheers
DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
Dungeons & Dragons Community Council
http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5003 by Umbratikus

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Re: PCs on a PC Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/16/01 9:07 am
It went pretty well, but there are tricks to making it work. I had enough forethought to print up all the documents I would need were I not using the laptop, just in case. I started with no paper in front of me but a requisite scratch pad, and had all my documents open in different windows and clicked between them. I found it helpful, however, to have the paper map handy in front of me, as opposed to clicking back and forth between it and my notes/key on the computer. I also found it cumbersome to look up something quickly using the online version of the books. I thought it would be faster to actually flip through the books, especially since I knew generally where the info I wanted is located.

All in all, it was a great help, and I plan to do it next time.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5041 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 5044 of 6742 Reply

DM Puzzler #2 Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/16/01 9:58 am
Okay, real game situation here. One Christmas, one of my players got Pages from the Mages, with lots of cool spells. His bard had just raised high enough to cast 2nd level spells. Being in a charitable mood, I told him he could pick any one spell from his new book as his second level spell. Normally I don't do this, especially for bards. Normally I keep a tighter reign on stuff (and rightly so, this experience taught me). But, hey, it was Christmas. Anyway, he selected a gem known as Annagazzar's (sp?) Scorcher or some such nonsense. This little spell fires a jet of flame at its target, which automatically hits, does 3-18 hp of damage the first round, and 3-18 the second round. This lovely spell has foiled many a great villain I have thrown at the party.

Two instances it has backfired on him. 1) he accidently killed another PC, as the caster fired his spell on an owlbear, which, but luck of initiative, had caught his unfortunate comrade in a hug, and thus shared the damage. 2) I engineered an encounter with a mirror of opposition, in which case he had to fight his other self and got a taste of his own spell.

Anyway, I think this spell is way too powerful for a second level spell. How do I, as a DM, get rid of this spell without simply ruling it "too powerful" and striking it from the game? I don't want to disrupt game continuity, but last night he slew the big baddie of my adventure in three rounds without the party getting so much as a scratch. Any ideas?

Umbratikus.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5040 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 5045 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 4/16/01 10:34 am
>> Annagazzar's (sp?) Scorcher or some such nonsense. This little spell fires a jet of flame at its target, which automatically hits, does 3-18 hp of damage the first round, and 3-18 the second round.

While the spell easily falls in between 1st and 3rd level in power (more powerful than magic missile, less so than fireball), I think that either the "automatic hit" or the amount of damage done (average, 21) is a bit much. I think that either a saving throw or a "to hit" roll would balance things out sufficiently.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5044 by Umbratikus

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Message 5046 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 DiscordianStooge
(21/M/Mankato, MN) 4/16/01 1:14 pm
My friends and I call this one the party killer. Mostly because of its use in "Baldur's Gate", the CRPG. In this game, party members always run in front of the spell and take half damage.
Anyway, I toned down the damage (2d6 rather than 3), and it's gone in 3ed, so my worries have dissappeared.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5044 by Umbratikus

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Re: DM Puzzler #2 vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/16/01 5:48 pm
1) If your player's character keeps his spells in a book to memorize...spell book, just remember that there are a lot of theives out there. And once his book has been "borrowed" he may might be able to found a wizard or such to get THAT spell replaced.

2) If he doesn't need a book, there is the possibly that the Potion of Forgetfulness can be handy. Just have it so that the whole party is victim to it, so it doesn't look like your aiming at him and his spell. And don't just take that spell, but perhaps a few others, and what's his first name, where did he leave his horse....

3) Get them involved with a evil cleric who could curse him...a little 'do unto others and it shall be done unto you'. If done to the whole party for a set amout of time they will all learn to use their heads more instead of always going for the weapons.

Just some of my thoughts. But a very good puzzle for debate, Umbratikus.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5044 by Umbratikus

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Message 5048 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/muiltiverse) 4/16/01 7:46 pm
hey thats one of my favoritr 2nd levle spells AG scorcher!! don't get rid of it but read the entire spell completely and you will see ways to limit's use !! for example on the second rounfd have the target duck behind some object!! also ring of fire resistence weakens that spell alot and other thigs to protect from fire !!
as for too powerful for a 2nd levle spell not really look at it this way the spell takes the casting int and the next int to complete and buy then the caster can have taked more then a few hits and so forth it's pretty good spell to have for you mage , but not for a bard ... bard spells should lean more to charm and enchantment schools and spells that entertain and enhace the bards abilities , unlike mage spells ....
AG scorcher is a good 2nd levle spell for a mage after all buy the time a mage reaches 3rd level the rest of the party is like 4th + in levle and it's a spell that can help keep a mage alive in the higher level party!!
remember the reason players like to play spell casters is for the super natural effects the can get and the power they like !!!

thats my 2 cents

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5044 by Umbratikus

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Message 5049 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/muiltiverse) 4/16/01 7:48 pm
wizards of the coast is worming on a chart to upgrade all spells from 1st and 2nd thats are not in 3rd so we can use all the fun spells we loved in those edtions

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5046 by DiscordianStooge

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Message 5050 of 6742 Reply

Re: d20 Licensing Agreement is a GOOD th gedvondur
(30/M/Green Bay, WI) 4/16/01 10:52 pm
Wow, good for you! I didn't think there was anybody else out there that actually PLAYED StarFrontiers at one time. It was one of my favorite SCI-RPGs, but TSR (bastards) killed it before it could mature. Too bad, it really would have been cool if it had a "2nd ed" happen to it. The "Zebulon's Guide to Frontier Space" was the beginning of that but they killed the game right after releasing it...Too bad....

I got my first Basic D&D set in 1979...and have played pretty steady since then. The group I am currently with has been playing almost every Sunday since around 1990...

Gedvondur

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5028 by adaen

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Message 5051 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 gedvondur
(30/M/Green Bay, WI) 4/16/01 11:03 pm
Hmmmm..You could build an adventure around it.

Something along the lines of pissing off a fire god or elemental and have him burn the ability to cast the spell (or any fire based) out of the character.

Let him sacrifice the ability to cast fire-based spells to a neutral deity in exchange for a limb re-attachment or raise dead.

He probably has to memorize it....Trash the book.
Bookworms, fire, water, theft, whatever. Casually insert this damage to his book, and then NEVER let him find it again. Hell, for realism's sake, damage EVERYONE'S spell book. Make sure there are no copies on scroll, and none in other spell caster's books.

Worst case senario have a side talk, outside the game and others, to the player and reason with him. Many players will come around if you tell them your concerns.

Last and least desireable is you do what ScottyG says and "tell them where supper hangs", and take it away.

Gedvondur
DM--Legion of the Red Paw

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5044 by Umbratikus

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Message 5052 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 gedvondur
(30/M/Green Bay, WI) 4/16/01 11:08 pm
I will assume you mean "working"....

I don't know if thats really a good idea. Part of my basic rules for the campaign is "no spells/abilities/items from a source outside the PHB and DMG without prior DM approval. Some of the old spells were real messes....the AG one and you remember Volley from Unearthed Arcana..Ugh.

Gedvondur
DM--Legion of the Red Paw

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5049 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 5053 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/17/01 1:33 am
Yes Umb,

To remove a spell or other goodie, I think you gotta be honest with the players. Anything else is a compromise of your integrity. You are human and will make mistakes. If you have any history of admitting you need to re-think, the players should understand.

I see several spells that could be too attractive and thus prove "habit forming". My answer is: a single use of any spell per day to assure that powerful spells get no more than their moment in the spotlight.

Do whatever you gotta do. I suggest you give it to 'em straight.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5044 by Umbratikus

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Message 5054 of 6742 Reply

Off Topic : Star Frontiers dungeonkeeperuk
(31/M/Leeds, UK) 4/17/01 6:16 am
On the topic of Star Frontiers...I actually heard a rumor some time ago about WoC brining it out agin under the d20 licence...can anyone else confirm/deny this?

DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
DnD Community Council
http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5050 by gedvondur

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Message 5055 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/17/01 8:39 am
Thanks for all the input. The player knows my concern, but I have a campaign principle that I follow as DM, and that is I won't arbitrarily say "oh, that was a bad idea. I think I will remove it from the game." I will work the removal into the storyline somehow. I am liking the losing of the spellbook thing. He (the PC in question) is preparing for a trip to the planes, to collect on a bounty, and that will be a good place for me to engineer it's removal. I also like to have fun with magic on the planes, for those who know Planescape, knows that magic behaves differently, depending on what plane you are on.

Anyway, thanx for the ideas.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5053 by thrandorian

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Message 5056 of 6742 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 4/17/01 12:50 pm
one word:

bookworm

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5055 by Umbratikus

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Message 5057 of 6742 Reply

Re: Off Topic : Star Frontiers lycantherope_69
4/17/01 2:10 pm
Yup. I heard something about this, too, and just a few weeks ago...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5054 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 5058 of 6742 Reply

Re: d20 Licensing Agreement is a GOOD th vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/17/01 2:42 pm
Sir Gedvondur, I will have you know that my father and two brothers play Star Frontiers to this very day. Of course now that we all live thousands of miles away it only happens on holidays but we still enjoy it. I to wish the game had been given more of a chance. But without a Sci-fi universe similar to fantasy's Greyhawk, most players were quickly taken out by lack of guidance. To create a world of kingdoms is one thing but a whole galaxy.....
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5050 by gedvondur

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Message 5059 of 6742 Reply

Star Frontiers gedvondur
(30/M/Green Bay, WI) 4/17/01 7:32 pm
Really? Hmmm...I don't know how I feel about that. The thing I really loved was the percentile system they used.....

Well I can't be any more peeved than the Star Wars RPG fans that are getting D20 for the latest iteration of their game....


Gedvondur
DM--Legion of the Red Paw

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5054 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 5060 of 6743 Reply

Re: d20 Licensing Agreement is a GOOD th gedvondur
(30/M/Green Bay, WI) 4/17/01 7:39 pm
Wow, thats cool. I myself have not played it in years. I have my own sci-fi role playing system loosely based on Star Frontiers dice system. Partial hits and fixed damage rule.

The thing that I always liked about Star Frontiers was that it managed to moderate the damage from hugley lethal futuristic weaponry, without wimping the weaponry out.

You know,as far as universes go, one of the best settings I have found for Sci-Fi is Traveller. The universe and diverse political manuverings are awsome. The only thing that I find annoying is the game system itself. I admit I have not tried it since Marc Miller bought the game back and re-released it but the Mega-Traveller versions kinda awful system-wise. The only thing that I really liked was the character generation systems. Allowed you to start with an experienced character, someone with some skills.

Gedvondur
DM--Legion of the Red Paw

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5058 by vonromig

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Message 5061 of 6743 Reply

Looking for a group to Join. bi_chick_lvr
(20/F/Colorado Springs, CO) 4/17/01 10:05 pm
Hi,
I am looking for a RPG group in Colorado Springs. I play D&D(all editions), rifts, and will try others. Ive DMed/played off and on for 4yrs now. If you are a memberof a Colorado Springs Group that meets weekly, let me know if you'd like another player. Email me at Earthlorelvr@aol.com and Subject: RPG Group.
Thanks
Monika


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Message 5062 of 6744 Reply

Greetings Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/18/01 8:45 am
Just joined your prestigious group/cult/cabal. I am a DM with some experience, I've been playing since 1996. Despite my relative lack of experience, I am considered a 'good' DM. I don't want to sound like a boastful git but I am a fairly skilled creative writer, I have a wide array of voices and an eye for the insane. I have a website (in very raw stages) which you can check out at www.angelfire.com/geek/knownworld. Any feedback would be appreciated and I am looking for other DMs to help with adding content to the site and general housekeeping.
My current campaign started several weeks ago and sees my eleven man party tackling an ancient tomb complex in search of a fighter's lucky sword. Basically I joined up to talk with fellow DMs, get some help and hopefully offer some of my talents to the secretive guild that is Dungeon Mastery. Cheers
Chris Walker-Bush aka Inches_72 aka Lord Raven


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Message 5063 of 6744 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #2 Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/18/01 9:07 am
I'm familiar with the spell only through Baldur's Gate and its sequals. I generally run a very loose and friendly style of campaign, so I feel comfortable with just speaking with the PCs about it. If all else fails, I find a particularly dangerous situation (oil coated floor, gas leak) and throw the idiot into it. If you instill fear into them, they will think twice before hurling Aganazzir's Scorcher at every object.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5044 by Umbratikus

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Re: DM Puzzler #1 Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/18/01 9:16 am
I suppose I should throw my two cents in here. I had a player who was very similar to Timmy-always doing everything possible to really p*@! me off. He's dead now, but that is another story. I do Drama in school so improvisation is a major tool in my AD&D campaigns. The last one I ran had nothing more than a basic map and a list of potential encounters. I actually enjoy the 'wing it' approach. I say make some interesting characters up. Maybe an evil guy, maybe a minion of the actual Fire Giant etc. I like the crazed peasant army idea. Sometimes it is better just to give up on a module but even I am loath to throw away my hard work and start again. Always carry a backup.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5040 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Re: Looking for a group to Join. wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/18/01 9:40 am
Sorry to hear that you are way down there Monika, could of used a good player like you up here in the north Denver area....

Have fun

Wixlar Xeoric

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5061 by bi_chick_lvr

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Re: Looking for a group to Join. lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/18/01 1:59 pm
Well, I'm in Thornton, so I can't help you myself. But, there was a woman who visited our group who was playing with a group in the Springs. If you are interested, I can see if I can contact her or her sister (Minka travels a lot, so it's a little problematic) and see if their DM is looking for new players. If so, I can either get him/her your email or get you his/her contact information.

Let me know if that's something you'd be interested in.

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5061 by bi_chick_lvr

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To be or not to be.... King wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/18/01 2:15 pm
Who here has had their character become a King?

I can see if you come from the royal family or if you are seen by the prophets, you will become King.

What about the average joe shmoe?

What would be the path to follow for that character to become King? Or, what was your characters path that made him King?

And was that a King of a full Kingdom, or did a King or a full Kingdom make him only a part time King of the northern sector or something like that?

Thanks

Wixlar Xeoric


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To have or not to have.... Land wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/18/01 2:17 pm
Ok here is a similiar question related to the King question just previously posted.

What did your character do to obtain a chunk of land?

Did he purchase it?
Save the Kings child and the King gave him a chunk?
Does your character have to pay taxes on it?


Any and all kinds of information on this subject would be greatful....

Thanks

Wixlar Xeoric


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Re: To have or not to have.... Land SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 4/18/01 2:37 pm
I had a PC be given title and land, but it was in an "out-of-game" context. There was a lot of time travel going on, and each PC had a different side trip. I got a noble husband and two kids (one grew up to be a famous paladin, the other a notorious assassin. And she never wrote) before being returned to the rest of the party (who I was certain I had buried in the front yard... including my PC's *previous* husband, who'd only had an interlude of 2 weeks as opposed to my 50 years)

As a GM, I've had a PC become Emperor. There was already a war going on, with two claimants battling it out. The PCs encountered a hidden city of half-elven cambions and tieflings (happily stolen from "Cloak and Dagger") and were told they could either assist the evil creatures or die painfully.

One PC asked "What's in it for me?" A plan was formed which, in the post-campaign wrap-up, went something like this. The demon-elves assisted him in getting into the Imperial army and getting promoted to the point that he took it over when the Emperor-General mysteriously died. He defeated the opponent and became Emperor. In return, he continued to perpetuate the war the Empire was fighting with the elves of the two forests within its boundaries.

He is breaking all of the rules in the Evil Overlord book *on purpose* and has asked his old companions to raise up some young heroes (the new PCs in the new campaign) to make sure that he's overthrown. His idea is that, to get rid of him, they'll have to get rid of The Source of His Power - the daemonfey and fey'ri.

The new PCs seem to have other ideas, and might go straight for the assassination without Passing Go and collecting $200. Only time will tell.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5068 by wixlar_xeoric

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hey are there any dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/muiltiverse) 4/18/01 3:40 pm
mentor ohio area ADD 3rd edtion players in here!! looking for a game! or Dm in same are looking for a player drop me line and let me know ! I'm looking for a new group !I have 1 player lined up and need a few more


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Re: To have or not to have.... Land kwan_darkwood
(21/M) 4/18/01 5:27 pm
Well, I had an adventure where another character bought a horse farm. It was the traditional one with the evil farmer Uzro and how he was causing all sorts of trouble in MistleDale, and once we killed Uzro our ranger went and bought the farm and made it his own. The farm was eventually burned down by undead controlled by drow.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5068 by wixlar_xeoric

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Re: To have or not to have.... Land vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/18/01 7:02 pm
Well, I never had a character become a king. But owning land and businesses is a regular thing in my campaigns. What else are they going to do with all that loot they 'find'. Have it laying around to attract theives and long-lost relatives?

Unless they have title to a parsel of land in their character make-up the most likely and fastest way for the player's character to get some is buy it. Hinting at the possible benefits of purchasing real-estate or some business interest with their new-found wealth can lead to a multitude of fun side-adventures.

The granting of land by some higher power, the king or church, usually comes in the end of a campaign. This is as a reward to completing said mission with exceptional results. The giving of such a reward in the middle of a campaign would only make the end anti-climatic.

But giving ownership of anything of substance can also be a campaign hook: The PCs start off on what they think is the main story only to have one of them being an heir to some property or such and problems arise...Back taxes of an enormous amount, a takeover in progress that will hurt the heir's family, the inheritance is all part of some elaborate con, etc. This then turns out to be the main plot.

Just a few notes...
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5068 by wixlar_xeoric

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Re: World Building 6- The World midgetoo2us
4/18/01 10:08 pm
Amazing, amazing and again amazing piece of work, Von. Do you find it is possible to build an adventure in the same way?

That is The Huge Challenge for me. You seem to have a real talent for all things adventuresome and I bet you have an idea or two.

Thrandorian and Umbratikus, the Many Faceted; you both have many well-considered ideas along the lines my players seem to take.

I tend to take a module and restructure it everytime, but that is often WAY less than satisfying.

Thrandorian, you said D&D material does not have the resources to answer the needs, questions and actions of intelligent players. BOY! What A Mouthful!! (probably not quoted quite correctly)

How do you come up with an adventure to fit your world?


Hunt's Luck, Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5033 by vonromig

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Re: To have or not to have.... Land lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/19/01 12:09 am
I've used land as a reward for great service. One time my wife Noelle wanted to retire one of her PCs after a great war. The PC was a ranger, so the Queen made her protectress of a huge chunk of Crown lands, of which a small portion was hers personally for her home. Other tiumes, parties have purchased properties for different reasons. The last time was in a campaign set in Waterdeep. The party included a half-ogre, an undead dwarf, a centaur, a few elves, and an adolescent steel dragon - some of whom were Watch officers. Their house was a four-story manor in North Ward, and it quickly began lowering housing values all around it. People got scared when the dragon would sun herself on the roof and bellow "Howdy, neighbor!" at people on the street...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5072 by vonromig

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two weapons Evertree
4/19/01 12:20 am
Yeah yeah, easy to guess. Old E has finally started playing a character with two weapon fighting style.

They say that fighting with 2 weapons is difficult, and your attcks are clumsy. In AD&D, your dexterity "reaction adjustment" used to compensate for some of the penalties for the "clumsiness" of two weapon fighting. An average person was not as skilled at 2-weapon fighting as a highly coordinated and manually dextrous person. In 3E -as far as I know- a 9 or a 19 dexterity and your are just graceful with 2-weapons.

At least half of your dex modifier should be used to offset the "clumsiness" of the fighting style. I think that you should not be able to use Weapon Finesse at the same time as you use dex to offset your 2 weapon penalty, though.

A ballet dancing, lightening fingered, swashbuckling rogue should be more adept at using two weapons than a hulking, fat fingered, mugging brute. What do you think?


E. Gerhen


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Evil characters the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden
4/19/01 1:16 am
Has anyone ever GM'ed a group of pure evil characters? I'm talking about villianous here. A campaign for characters who are out for nothing else but conquest and power. Characters that slit old men's throats and frame the city guards for it.


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Re: Evil characters lazarus1020
(22/M/Louisville,Ky) 4/19/01 2:38 am
I have a group and we normally play our standard adventuring party. Every now and then I start to see a dark side emering from some of my players. When this happens we break out our evil campaign for the next session. It is a real good way to blow off some steam and have alot of fun.

I started them as first level standard classes with evil alignments. The amazing part is that they took it from there and created some of the best villians ever. Our puny mage set his black heart to becoming a lich. He is a evil old crone now who has gather much knowledge but knows the dangers of messing up the transformation. Soon i think he will crose the line and take a chance.

The next character of note is our black knight. He was designed from the evil knights of Krynn. This guy was as dark as they come and did some of the most foul deeds. On one occassion he cut out the tongue of the local govenor for speaking out against him. About three months ago the knight was supposed to guide the high priestess of the Horseman of Death(the most powerful evil diety in my campaign)to her new temple. On the way there he grew tired of her nagging. He raped her then crusified her. In punishment his diety made him a death knight but this seems to have only inspired him to wipe out any priest, good or evil.

There are many other characters but the last i shall speak of is the Vampire theif. Our theif character decided early on that he wanted to be a vampire and plotted his way into being bitten. Once the vampire did it's job the rest of the party killed it.

The party is rounded out by the werewolf cleric of the moon goddess. She likes to go into town and wolf out. Then we have a doppleganger mage/theif. A jack of all trades. The last character is my favorite but if i wrote about him he would have to kill you. He is our assassin and nobody but the party has seen his face. I let you in on a secret even though it may cost me my life, the dark skinned bastard needs to shave his white hair off because his ears are huge as it is.lol

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5076 by the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden

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Re: To be or not to be.... King dungeonkeeperuk
(31/M/Leeds, UK) 4/19/01 7:03 am
I have aplayer in my group just now who is on her way to becoming a Barabrian Queen, a couple of months down the line, if they find the right objects from the frozen tomb of the last king, defeat the Aldyami and their own form of Biological warfare, acid itch form a flowering plant, find the cure to the acid itch, unite the Barbarian tribes and find the father of another team member who holds the clues to itall, oh and also kicks the addiction to a drug that enhances her powers but cancers her body and gets round an unfirtuante sexual incident with a farmer who turned out to be a poymorphed Ogre Magi, and all that before the Winter months settle back in....
:O)

DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
DnD Community Council
http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5067 by wixlar_xeoric

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Re: To have or not to have.... Land dungeonkeeperuk
(31/M/Leeds, UK) 4/19/01 7:06 am
""the other a notorious assassin. And she never wrote) ""

Tsk, kids eh, what ya going to do with em?

DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
DnD Community Council
http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org/

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5069 by SCA_Bard

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Re: To have or not to have.... Land Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/19/01 8:50 am
So what's the big deal? A lot of PCs in my campaign have bought the farm ; )

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5071 by kwan_darkwood

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Re: World Building 6- The World vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/19/01 4:54 pm
Thank you for the compliment. As soon as I finish my series on World Building I will start one on Campaign Creation. Of course these are simlpy my ideas and suggestions, I am hoping others will add to mine or even run their own series.

The spacing between installments is to give other members time to respond if they wish.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5073 by midgetoo2us

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Re: To have or not to have.... Land vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/19/01 4:57 pm
LOL!!!

"Howdy, neighbor!"

LOL...I love it!
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5074 by lfnotter

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Re: two weapons vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/19/01 5:08 pm
I would have to look at someone like Conan, he seems to be adept at two-weapon fighting and is a 'hulking, fat-finger, mugging brute'.

I would base the concept of ones ability more on whether that individual is ambidexerous then on his size. Even a person who has a low dexerity, but is ambidexerous would have better control over his/her second weapon. I don't have 3rd Edition yet, but perhaps that was their thinking also and this 'Weapon Finesse thing is taking ambidexerity into account.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5075 by Evertree

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Re: To have or not to have.... Land gedvondur
(30/M/Green Bay, WI) 4/19/01 7:29 pm
Perhaps I should let PVD answer this since he was running this game but....

Our character recieved a land grant from the King and built a castle. As a consequense of this, a small town of workers was started near by....The characters immediatly began to encourage trade, gave out business/shop starting grants, payed some basic townspeople (blacksmiths, innkeepers) whatever to move their digs to our little town...After a couple of road improvement projects, a civil/castle guard, road patrols, and a TON of gold later, we have a thriving little town, that actually more or less pays for itself at this point.

Gedvondur

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5068 by wixlar_xeoric

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Re: Evil characters vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/19/01 8:06 pm
I have had two games where the players were quite vile characters...

One of them started out with the players being mostly good guys, but the assassin lead them to a whole other campaign. ( see post #4901 for how). With the others rolling up new bad-guy characters they started on an adventure of pure evil. It was great. They got envolved in mass murder (poisoning all the high officials and nobles at a party), gang rape (the daughter of their rival to send him a message), extortion, prostitution, racketeering, and all sorts of evils.

Another one involved the players rolling up characters as Orcs. The plot was that their tribe had just conquered a human kingdom and their chieftain, ThreeToes, put them in charge of finding the rebel leaders...to liquidate. This gave the players the freedom to torture, rape, and pillage the countryside during their search. Another fanastic adventure.

One thing I have learned is that you really can't prepare anything to far in advance when running an evil campaign. The player's imagination in this aspect (doing evil) takes some very unusual paths. It just enough to keep up with them.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5076 by the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden

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Villian Motivations midgetoo2us
4/19/01 8:47 pm
I always find it hard to come up with a really good and believable motivation for the villians. Either the writers of modules don't feel it's necessary to have much detail, or my players question constantly "Why would the villan DO THAT?

I know there are many motivations, but getting a sound 'psychological profile' seems tough.

I'm working on an elven villian who is the leader of a group, the Lorimornai. They split from the main group, the Loriquendi over an issue of how Gate Crystals should be used. The Lorimornai want the crystals to be hoarded and used only by the very elite while the Loriquendi want the crystals to be openly acknowledged and used only with everyone's agreement.

The hidden factor is that the Lorimornai are enchanted with becoming Dragon Lords and controlling the dragons natural gating ability (possibly my world of Erikia only).

All fine so far, but what does the Lorimornai villian REALLY want? Luxury? Control of others? Power?

What does wanting power really mean? Getting your own way everytime? Does the villian who wants luxury really go through blood-shed and trauma to get luxury. Seams like a contradiction somehow.

What do villians really want? Short term knee-jerk kicks? Long term molding of worlds to their designs? All of the above?

This club has so many great ideas. Maybe there are some ideas as to what makes motivations psychologically sound.

Ilsa


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Re: two weapons Evertree
4/19/01 8:55 pm
Howdy Von Romig

3E has both ambidexterity and two weapon style.

Conan has exceptional strength, maybe even a 19, but his dex is at least a 16 also. A 16 would offset some of the penalties. He's truly of "heroic stature".

My point was that 3E doesn't differentiate between clumsy people and graceful people using the fighting style. 9 or 29 dex and it doesn't matter... your equally as graceful with two weapon fighting.


Gerhen

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5083 by vonromig

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Message 5088 of 6745 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations x_zone15
(M/New Ulm, MN) 4/19/01 8:56 pm
Well, I believe that oftentimes the villians motivations are not very clear, but if you are looking for some inspiration I would look for some Ravenloft material. Ravenloft has some of the best, most well-rounded villians of any campaign setting. Also, another nice thing about Ravenloft is that it draws people into it through the mists, no complicated plot on how they arrived there, Huzzah! And you can have them find a escape out of there, difficult, (VERY DIFFICULT) but possible. The only problem is that there is little 3rd edition material availible for the setting, but since Arthaus (A White Wolf Subsidery) bought the rights to Ravenloft, a d20 version of that dreaded Demi-plane is coming out soon!

X, Darklord of Ravenloft (and currently converting the Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium to 3rd Edition! Wish me luck ;-D)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5086 by midgetoo2us

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Re: Villian Motivations midgetoo2us
4/19/01 9:02 pm
Well, I thought you had to be a vampire to get anywhere in Ravenloft. Perhaps I am mistaken? Or are the villian motivations good for any villian, vampire or not?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5088 by x_zone15

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Re: Villian Motivations vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/19/01 9:39 pm
My thought on 'finding' villian motivations of NPCs is to go back in to their beginnings as an evil person. What made him a villain? What was the event(s) that turned a sweet little child into the monster he is today. Take any evil NPC that you created and just give him a history as to how he transformed. In most cases this should show you his motivation.

Here are some of mine...
Brimorror: Born into a very religous family he followed in their traditions to become a priest. With true resovle he became a cleric and soon took a wife. When his wife died in an accident he prayed continually for her resurrection, giving full cermonial rites and everything he could think of. It all came to naught. This turned him against the Deity and all those who worship him. Eventually, to continue his rein of terror he turned to magic to prolong his life and became a Lich. His sole purpose (motivation) is to destroy all who worship this Deity...and in his now convoluted mind this means most all humans. This has led him to attempt to conquer the Shore Kingdoms Region one kingdom at a time, with each new conquest leading to the slow death of that ones population through starvation and ritual sacrifice.

Dirk Tandor: Born Ashurod Bendwillow he was outcast from his tribal lands for theft. Upon entering the human city of Jhonree he tried his hand at working on the docks. Due to the lack of work (to many other dockhands and him being an elven outsider) he slowly took to stealing to survive. With time and skill he joined a guild and slowly moved up its ranks. But a time came when the guild leader used him as a scapegoat on a very big job and he landed in prison, minus his left hand. Never wanting to be a patsy again he moved to Nithorin in the Malenon Empire upon his release and started his own guild. With a new name and under his guidance his guild rose in strength and he took on the guild of his past, the Midnight Masters. And now his sole motivation is to destroy them and its leaders, with his guild the Poison Hand.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5088 by x_zone15

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Re: Villian Motivations mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/19/01 9:41 pm
Hello midgetoo2us

Ohhhhhhhhh, I could tell you blood curtling stories about the villians and motivations in Ravenloft!!!!

Most of the villians are dead (that is because Rqavenloft has been tourting them for centuries!!!!)

The villians are boarder line psyco due to theis torture that the plane of Ravenloft forces them to endure....

Strad, wanted to have his younger borther's bride (his pride was hurt when he realized he spent the best years of his life away at war, instead of building a family) He wanted her so much so, that he murdered his brother on the eve of their weadding to get her. In Ravenloft every so many years a woman appears just like her, but she always dies tragically before he can capture her.

Aslan, wanted to be the greatest sorcerer in the world, now he is a litch, but his curse. He can NEVER memorize any new spell!!!

Lord Soth, knight of the rose, falled and turned into a death knight. he murdered his wife so he could mary aonther. This other woman was to become a priestess, in Ravenloft, the accompanying priestesses (now Banchies), sing of Soth's fall from grace, every night before him.

Tortured souls, would you pity them?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5089 by midgetoo2us

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Re: Villian Motivations mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/19/01 9:45 pm
Ravenloft makes Dark Lords of the most evil people it can find. To qualify, you must be so thoroughly evil, or commit a heinous crime of passion. Most of the dark lords are guilty of committing a crime of passion, and are stuck in their current state.

You do not need to be undead to qualify.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5089 by midgetoo2us

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Re: Villian Motivations mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/19/01 10:01 pm
You wrote:

>>I always find it hard to come up with a really good and believable motivation for the villians. Either the writers of modules don't feel it's necessary to have much detail, or my players question constantly "Why would the villan DO THAT?
<<

I once had a DM tell me that the secret to comming up with great villians and plots was to steal, ahenm borrow heavily from:

TV
Movies
Comics
Novel
Popular Liturature
DnD Novels
Even songs (can be a source of inspiration)

Some of my planned borrowings include:

Converting "The Phantom of the Opera" into a Ravenloft adventure (Yes, Eric the villin here is another tortured soul).

Converting "The Mummy" into a Ravenloft adventure. Although nobody really felt sorry for Imhotep, he is a powerful figure.

One of my characters borrowed from this movie as well. The last man from the brotherhood to survive (The guy with the funny symbols ynder his eyes.) One of my players decided his character looks and acts just like him.

I have read many Piers Anthony books, his discription of the incarnation of Slaughter found a way into my PC's last adventure.

Anything you like to listen to, watch or read can become a source of inspiration. It can become a villian, or an adventure.

One GM I knew turned the 3 little pigs and the big bad wolf into a twisted tale. (He also turned the song Hotel California into a Ravenloft adventure).

Use what you know. Darth Vader has been a villian of mine on more than one occasion, but sometimes I actualy go through the effort to dress him up differently, and change his name.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5086 by midgetoo2us

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Re: World Building 6- The World mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/19/01 10:04 pm
I for one am glad you are keeping the series going (and comming up with a new one).

I do not get on line much, so my posts are usually bunched up into one heap once a week.

It seams like the idea of villian motivation has bacome a new thread of late, many interesting ideas here...

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Re: Villian Motivations mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/19/01 10:15 pm
You wrote:

>>I'm working on an elven villian who is the leader of a group, the Lorimornai. They split from the main group, the Loriquendi over an issue of how Gate Crystals should be used. The Lorimornai want the crystals to be hoarded and used only by the very elite while the Loriquendi want the crystals to be openly acknowledged and used only with everyone's agreement.

The hidden factor is that the Lorimornai are enchanted with becoming Dragon Lords and controlling the dragons natural gating ability (possibly my world of Erikia only).
<<

I forget who said it "All power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Controling dragon's gating ability seems very powerful indeed! Has this power gone to the villian's head? Is he mad with power, or with the promise of power? Is he/she full of him/herself, proud of their accomplishments?

This bunch sounds like they could be of the Aristocracy? The fact that they only want the elite to use the crystals suggests that they are either a Royal kind of elitist (Power to those by birthright), or perhapse a more millitant type (Power to those who can wield it best).

Either of which can begin to shape the faction and the Evil Leader in your campaign.

You could set up a classic class struggle, peasants want power shared, while Monarchies want power hoarded.

or you could set up a Dictatorate state, rule by military might. Thus sowing the seeds for a rebellion. Those who believe the power should be shared must take the crystals from the greedy lords and crush their power base, so they can cause no threat.

You have some interesting options to contemplate...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5086 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5096 of 6745 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations-What they Want mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/19/01 10:51 pm
Perhapse a good starting point is not figuring out what a villian is, but figuring our what a hero is!

I can ask you, "Who is your hero?", or "Who is your Favorite Hero?" Immediately ideas should pop into your head. Calssic heros, or someone you know at work or school, a religious leader. You should get a strong sense of the character of this hero.

A villina is often (but not always) the antighises of the hero. Jusr trverse all of the qualities of your favorite hero and try it out. See if it "Feels" right.

Sometimes when you create a villian this way, the character is so compelling, you might begin to realize that you know someone who is just like the villian you created. (You may 'know him from the movies, or TV, etc.)

A coold blooded kiler with no remorese (The Terminator?)

A villina who's mere presence causes fear (Darth Vadar).

A villian who is a renowned expert at fighting a style, and most would rather flee or bargain than fight? (Lord Soth, Darth Maul)


As for the why of a villian:
A lot of a villina's motivation can be explained by why he or she bacame a villian. (As Vonromig has pointed out).

But remember (As Vonromig has pointed out about Evil NPC's) Most people do not consifre themselves to be evil (in our case, most villians would not consider themselves to be the villian.)

Hitler? Thought he had a view of a better world. Probably did not think of himself as a villian. Probably thought the French were the villians for the 'harsh' Treaty of Versaille (Sic?), and needed to be punished.

Ceaser? Thought he was bringing a new era of prosperity to Rome.

Some answers to why:
The villian is misguided(1) Puts too much emphasis on the wrong things like, pride, achievements, power, knowledge, gold, religious tennants; so that seeking or obtaining these things becomes the goal at whatever the cost.

The villian is misguided (2)Does not consider his actions wrong. Killing peasants is ok because their lives do not matter in the affairs of kings.

The villian is misguided (3) The vilian is consumed by his /her own needs to fulfill an emptiness in their life / past. The villian concentrates so much on achieving the goal that he / she does not care about the consequences to others.

"The road to hell is often paved with good intentions." Too much of a good thing can become evil too, if carried to extreemes.

Desired unfulfilled: Sometimes the villians have tried to meet their own needs, and have failed. When the villians are spurned, they sometimes take to vengance.

Remember the story of Frankenstein? The monster wanted to be loved, but all of human kind hated him, so he repayed their hatred with hatred and murder.

One interesting idea of villian motovation is the insecurity / security aspect. A fear or need for so much security, that you actively pre-emptively strike at everyone, and attempt to rule the world, just so you can feel secure?

Imagine Don Knots in charge of the 3rd Reicht, instead of Hitler?

As for seeking luxuries, that comes under greed. Greed can be as all consuming as anyhthing else.

I place luxuries under greed, and not sloth, because sloth compells inaction and lazyness. Hard to imagine a villina trying to take over the workd, because he / she is lazy?

Remember the 7 deadly sins. There is probably an aspect in one of them that can bacome an over-riding personality factor in your villians.

Try not to overuse insanity, craziness or psycopathy as the justification for your villians. it is true that some villians do fit into this category, but it is too easy to dismiss the process of developing a villinas rational, by saying "Oh, he was a deranged psyco".

Hope this helps...

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5086 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5097 of 6745 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/19/01 10:56 pm
Vonromig,

What do you think of this idea:

An important component of a villian's psycology is weather or not they can be furned to the light (so to speak), and what can turn them around.

Kind of the idea in Star Wars where Luke does not want to fight his Father, but instead turn him from the Dark Side.

What are your thoughts on thiss issue?

I had read your idea of examining how they became villians int efirst place, and that gave me this idea.

Basically if you un do whatever got them going on the dark path, whoud then begin to move toward the light path?

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5090 by vonromig

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Message 5098 of 6745 Reply

Re: World Building 6- The World wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/20/01 9:03 am
Von Romig

The last entry for your world is World Building 6 - World Stats.

How many more entries are there for world building before we see the campaign creation series?

Thanks

Wixlar Xeoric

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5081 by vonromig

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Message 5099 of 6745 Reply

Re: Evil characters Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/20/01 9:38 am
You will love this. I usually play a campaign with maybe one or two evil characters, most notable of these were a Grimlock Fighter named Bloodfrenzy, a Pixie Necromancer called Xander and a partially insane fighter known only as Fury. Getting off topic though. I currently DM a campaign in which nine of the eleven PCs are evil. I decided to really challenge myself and my players by letting them play as nonstandard evil races. So the party is;
An Illithid Mage
Githyanki Fighter
Ogre Barbarian
Half Fiend Fighter
Goblin Cleric
Centaur Cleric to Hextor
Lizardman Cleric of Pelor (Not evil, but strange)
Human Cleric of Kord (Acts Nice, unspeakably evil)
Dwarf Paladin (Pussy)
Orc Ranger
This cadre of bizarre characters means that writing adventures and roleplaying is totally different. I write the adventures based on greed rather than goodwill. Leave it open ended and you can always adjust to suit the whims of particularly cruel PCs. I threaten the characters, goad them into dangerous situations rather than luring them in with fair maidens or distraught families. I agree with Vonromig, just give yourself a basic plot which allows plenty of leway so PCs can decide the course of action.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5085 by vonromig

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Message 5100 of 6745 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/20/01 9:43 am
It might sound like a cliche, but I think Jon Irenicus was one of the coolest villains I've ever seen. Calm and cool but unspeakably evil. In my campaign there are several villains (numbered in the dozens) but my favourite would be Warlord Trasian, a vampire of considerable power whose sole motivation is to find the woman who made him a vampire. Rather than being thankful for his 'gift' he is driven in his hatred towards the vampiress who hid herself several years after his accession into vampire-dom. When simple spying and searching cannot find her, he decides to hire the party, when that doesn't work his only option is to scour the world with magic and undead to find her. As you can probably imagine, the party wouldn't be overly pleased with hordes of evil creatures combing the civilised world... An epic confrontation follows. I do intend to keep him alive and active until his major involvement, and despite being a vampire he is compelled to help the party several times. He is the villain that everybody loves but knows they will have to kill later.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5097 by mattbcieri

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Message 5101 of 6766 Reply

Re: To be or not to be.... King Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/20/01 9:45 am
I've never had a character become a king during gameplay. Rather, when they retired I elevated them to a position of power. Several retired PCs are now leaders of major groups in my campaign world (imaginatively titled, the Known World). My favourite is Warlord Trasian, a gay Elven character of mine lucky enough to be bitten by a Vampire at level one. He is now THE major villain in my world, elevated to a position of godlike power. No kings though. Sadly.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5067 by wixlar_xeoric

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Message 5102 of 6766 Reply

Re: Evil characters Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/20/01 11:59 am
Okay, the only thing I am unclear on is how does the paladin mix with the evil hoarde? I would think his patron deity would be raising an eyebrow or two there.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5099 by Inches_72

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Message 5103 of 6766 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations-What they Want vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/20/01 2:44 pm
Very good ideas Matt. I really like the concept of not over using the insanity plea.
Two thumbs up!
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5096 by mattbcieri

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Message 5104 of 6766 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 4/20/01 3:10 pm
Re: Psychos
I agree. Random psychos probably wouldn't make good "grand villians" anyway, unless they had access to some magic to make them waaay to powerful. Most psychopaths don't Play Well with Others.

Now sociopaths! They make some good villians. "Yes, according to your pathetic little morality, it's wrong. Why should I care?" Often highly intelligent and manipulative.

Re: Me? Evil?
I agree and disagree. Most of my villians tend to be the "Me? Evil? Never!" types. They honestly believe their plans are for the betterment of everyone. I think this adds realism, but sometimes you just want a mean old nasty ubervillian with no illusions of "doing the right thing." They tend to be a bit more manaical, but gosh, they can be fun!

Re: Redemption
If the villian isn't a moustache-twisting fiend, and the PCs show an interest in redeeming the villian, I'll try and find a way to let them. It's probably a much more satisfying way to defeat an enemy than killing her. And if there's one thing I've learned as a player and GM, you can justify *almost* anything in character.

Most recent case in point: I had an evil elven tiefling who was a sadist. She did fire damage to people just by touching them - all the time. She couldn't turn it off. Obviously, people avoided touching her, so she started touching people to punish them for it. Add on an overbearing cambion mom who treats everyone like a pawn, and you've got a bitter, ambitious young fey'ri.

Enter the PC with the ring of fire resistance. Mom assigns her to him as his (ahem) valet. But he treats her with genuine respect and shows that he actually trusts her. Respect and trust?! She's floored, inevitably coming to respect and trust him in return. Her penchant for torturing random humans falls off as she finds happiness doing other things for her boss. Eventually, she falls for this guy who treats her so well, and they've got a little tiefling son.

In the new campaign, she's realizing her mom's plans for the world include things like killing folks like her son. Now that she's able to actually love someone, she's got a bit more empathy, and has the guts to wonder if mom is wrong. I plan a full conversion scene in a few more months of gametime.

I just hope the PCs don't scream, "Demon-elf!" and kill her on sight...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5097 by mattbcieri

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Message 5105 of 6766 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/20/01 3:15 pm
The idea of turning a villian back into a good guy is, in my opinion, based on what his motivation is AND how far along he has gone.

If his purpose is simple but hard to reach by him, then with outside help I don't see why he wouldn't or couldn't change into Mr. Niceguy.
Ex: Galen has been in love with Tiffany his whole life, and she likes him. But Galen is weak and a bit goofy, the town's tailor. Along comes Hugo, a mighty warrior that sweeps Tiffany off her feet. Hugo saves the town from a band of raiders and in the glow of victory asks for Tiffany's hand...the whole town celebrates. Galen having felt rejected turns slowly towards the dark side. Since he just can't kill Hugo, for Tiffany would never love him then, he hides behind schemes to destroy Hugo as the Hero. Always setting him up to fail...poor Hugo battles each adversity to triumph, deepening Tiffany's affection. Galen always acts the friend and is always there for them, but he can never brake through Hugo's shining armor. Now Galen will continue to delve deeper and deeper into evil as he gets more daring and devious, until he is either caught or some outside force (perhaps even something he has set up) destroys Hugo. With the downfall of the Hero, Galen could step in and woe the lady Tiffany into his arms and he lives happily ever after.

But in the case of Brimorror, even if all the followers of his hated Deity were to vanish and the Diety to disappear, he would still continue for the lure of power is to great at his height. Having conquered nine human kingdoms, three elven tribes, and incorporated the orcish empire of Truk he controls more land and people then half the Shore Kingdoms Region. Such power and control can not be easily brushed off.

So again this is based on the individual villian.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5097 by mattbcieri

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Message 5106 of 6766 Reply

Villianos (that's Italian for bad guys) madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/20/01 3:17 pm
In my campaign world, I started with the major baddy, a red dragon. She is just evil by nature, and likes to play with human and demi-human affairs like a game of chess, from behind the scenes ... 'cause girls just wanna have fun.

Below her, are her henchmen. They know is boss and see to it her whims and will are brought to fruition. One of the henchmen serves his mistress because he is in love with her.

Below them there are the henchmen's "lieutenants", some of whom don't even know about the dragon's existence and simply serve their "direct reports" for the purpose of gaining personal power, influence, wealth ... etc., etc. These are regional governor-types.

Below them are mid-level toughs, who aspire some day to be a lieutenant ... these are the vicious enforcers in the chain.

Then, below them are a number of paid and/or vindictive hirelings and opportunists, looking to become a bigger fish or make a name for themselves.

This inverted funnel set-up has worked well in developing my bad guy chain of command.


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Message 5107 of 6766 Reply

Re: World Building 6- The World vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/20/01 3:36 pm
Two.

World Building 7- Power Bases

World Building 8- Detailing Help

Both will be done Saturday night. As both are small and optional.

After the Campaign Creation series I will then run Adv. World Detailing series, which will help in giving ideas and concepts on things like elven, dwarven, orcen, etc kingdoms, Realistic placement of other monsters in relation to the human populace, guild functions and their possible effects on society, effects of having actual magic in a medieval setting, how to handle trade and commerce easily, needs and info on PC's companies and businesses (if they get into that), and things like that.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5098 by wixlar_xeoric

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Message 5108 of 6766 Reply

Re: To be or not to be.... King thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/20/01 4:04 pm
How about looking at the stories of Conan, Abe Lincoln, Jon Carter of Mars, the Prince and the Pauper, Hitler (evil pauper rising to power). There are many stories from fiction as well as history that detail such ascensions to prominence. The love of the people for a hero, political maneuvering, or just plain luck can be the crucible in which such events are compounded.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5067 by wixlar_xeoric

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Message 5109 of 6766 Reply

Re: Evil characters thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/20/01 4:21 pm
I wonder how you explain a Paladin with an evil group as well. I am the 1st guy to accept a good Orc or Frost Giant or an unusual motivations that could create such character types and I have even had a group of Paladins who traveled for a while through great need with a thief Assassin in their group. They worked on her constantly and kept such an eye on her that she eventually left the party.
As I see it great need is the only likely motivater.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5102 by Umbratikus

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Message 5110 of 6766 Reply

Re: To be or not to be.... King vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/20/01 4:32 pm
Perhaps Warlord Trasian would like to 'party' with my world's Grandfather of Vampyre, Obleron derVaknor in Brimorror's Black Tower. There's plenty of elven maidens to go around.

Anybody else have major vampires in their world?
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5101 by Inches_72

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Message 5111 of 6766 Reply

Re: To be or not to be.... King thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/20/01 4:33 pm
Inches 72 (and I hope thats your height),

I have to give it to you. A gay Vampire is about as unique a concept as I have heard lately. I may use that to REALLY scare my male characters! Charmed, bit & then forced to commit sexual acts against your nature. That's enough to make you wanna wash of your d20 at the end of the night!

Maybe thats one way to get rid of unwanted magic devices. "Well Maurice, is really more interested in your wand of planet crushing than your body. Maybe he will trade."

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5101 by Inches_72

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Message 5112 of 6766 Reply

Re: World Building 6- The World mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/20/01 8:07 pm
I for one can not wait to see all of these series in their fullest. I am in the midsts of 2 campaigns, one as a Pc another as the DM, that are headding into the PC's Companies and Business areas.

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5107 by vonromig

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Message 5113 of 6766 Reply

Re: To be or not to be.... King mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/20/01 8:15 pm
Hi Vonromig,

You write

<>

Only the ones I have used ort borrowed from elsewhere.

Strad von Zorrivich is lurking in the background of my Ravenloft campaign.

The PC's have encountered 2 vampires from the Quest for Glory 4 Computer game. Ad Avis (an Arabian sorcerer who plots the downfal of his master, and the heores who have stopped his plans for power), and Katrina, the master of Ad Avis.

The cruel twist of fate here, is that Katrina visits the PC's in disguise, and falls in love with one of them.

I may still use Mary-Lee on the Pc's at some point, a 9 year old girl, vampire. (who still carries a doll.)

....

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5110 by vonromig

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Message 5114 of 6766 Reply

Re: Evil characters mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/20/01 8:21 pm
Hello T,

I was the Paladin Leader of a pretty shifty group.

Bryan the Holy, was very gulliable, and so he thought those adventuring with him were helping him on his quest to rid the world of evil.

The evil do-ers were careful to do their misdeads out of the sight and hearing of the Paladin.

I remember one encounter, where the evil raiding parties were out looking, and we discovered their treasure trove. The paladin, told the rest of the party to stop. He then claimed all of the treasure in the name of his god.

(The thieves were drawing straws to see who woulf back stab the paladin first. fortunately, Bryan then told the party, "Take what you want now, it is considered spoils of war, and not stealing."

There were many close calls like this in the adventure.

Bryan the Holy

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5109 by thrandorian

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Message 5115 of 6766 Reply

Re: To be or not to be.... King midgetoo2us
4/20/01 10:49 pm
Histerical! Thrandorian, what a sense of humor. Wash off your D20?!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5111 by thrandorian

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Message 5116 of 6766 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations midgetoo2us
4/20/01 10:56 pm
Von Romig - Brimorror & Dirk Tandor are very good villains. Both seem to be motivated by revenge, which is an excellent motivation and very believable. Although their stories are quite different, their actions would be simple in concept - to get back at those who had done them wrongs.

I totally agree that the origin of the evil bent in a villain is crucial. A good background goes a long way in the molding of the psyche.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5090 by vonromig

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Message 5117 of 6766 Reply

Re: Villian Motivations midgetoo2us
4/20/01 11:14 pm
Matt - Thanks for the great ideas.

The Loriquendi & the Lorimornai are indeed aristocracy. They are THE Elves, who have ultimate control of the crystals and thus, the dragon's gating abilities. The Loriquendi & the Lorimornai were once one people before they split.

The world of Erekia has an indigenous population of humans and a transplanted pupulation of those who left Middle Earth (Tolkien) and gated to Erekia when the 3rd age, with its dwindling magic, began. Sauron was overthrown and destroyed there, but was only an arm of a greater Dark Power that roams the heavens seeking worlds to enslave.

The Loriquendi lead those who want to keep Erekia as it is and was when the Newcomers arrived - unspoiled and natural, developing as it will.

The Lorimornai lead those who want to open a master gate to the heavens and thence to other worlds. They believe this will enrich their lives by adding much that is new and exciting.

Long ago, before the split, the crystals were divided. There are nine crystals in all and they have the property of dividing into many smaller crystals or joining to work as one. The Elves originally kept one and gave the other eight to leaders of Humans, Dwarves, Halflings, Ents, Birds, Mer Beings, Animals and Dragons. Some of the crystals were left whole while others were divided among various factions in each of the living species. Forces for light now hold some of the crystals. Others are held by forces for darkness.

The leader of the Lorimornai is Morthond, who I see as highly intelligent but endlessly restless. I think he should be on the low side in wisdom so that he can be duped by the agents of the Dark Power who slipped into Erekia in guises of light and now seek to open this world to darkness.

I am having trouble defining what specific acts Morthond can be engaged in that will give the player characters cause to pursue and stop him. These acts need to be motivated by and psychologically consistent with his intelligence, ruthlessness and unceasing desire for the new and different.

I think there should be other aspects of his personality also, but the real problem, for me, is - what would he actually be doing that is disgusting, demeaning and dastardly?

Which brings me back to: What happened to make him this way and what are these acts? Honestly, I can't seem to see this, although it is probably fairly obvious to others. Many of you have very excellent perceptions and I am glad to be reading them.

Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5095 by mattbcieri

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Message 5118 of 6766 Reply

Re: To be or not to be.... King DiscordianStooge
(21/M/Mankato, MN) 4/21/01 12:37 am
I love creating NPC's with extensive backgrounds, and have more than I know what to do with.

As such, I have a vampire "villian" whom I have yet to use. His name is Dolman.
He is Chaotic Neutral, and not actualy that evil. As a mortal he was a pious follower of one of my Lawful Good gods who is a very LDS type. No drinking, swearing, sex out side marriage. In other words, no fun. Everything was necessary to ascend to the heavens after death, and if one strays they will be open to the influance of evil.
After being transformed, Dolman at first was incredibly angry, as he had followed all of the rules explicitly. Believing he was the embomdiment of all he hated, Dolman went on a killing rampage on the hopes that some intrepid adventurers would destroy him.
After a while, however, Dolman realized that he could no longer get to his heaven anyway, so why not have fun.
There is a chance at anytime one is in a tavern that they will run across Dolman. He drinks, swears and whores his way through the kingdom. This is one vampire who *does* drink wine :)However, when he is sober he ironically is less able to control his bloodlust. Thus he drinks a lot to protect others. He is known to many as a vampire, and is hunted a lot. But he is having too much fun these days to want to die like he used to.
So he's not a bad guy, but he still has to live with his past and present actions, making him appear dangerous to those who want evil destroyed.

I can't wait to see my evil hating PC's meet up with this guy. Should make for an interesting encounter, non?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5110 by vonromig

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Message 5119 of 6766 Reply

Rivals and Nemesis vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/21/01 4:31 am
Since we seem to be talking alot about villians in our world I would like to bring up the notions of creating a Rival or Nemesis. While villians are enemies to all or to a selected group they need not be associated directly to the PCs, whereas Rivals and Nemesis are.

My definitions...

Rival: An individual, group, organization, or business that is in competition with one or more (if not all) of the player's characters, based on similar interests. Examples; two clerics vying for the 'souls' of a community with each being from a different religion, two parties seeking the same artifact for the same reason, or two leather shops selling their wares in the same city. These can be (and usually are) 'freindly' rivalries, but can turn nasty, although killing is never an option.

Nemesis: An individual, group, organization, or business that simply LOATHES one or more (if not all) of the player's characters. The death or utter destuction of the other would be pleasing to no end.

For the DM the creation and continuation of a Rival is somewhat easy; as they can be open and meet frenquently without fear of the PCs killing them off, their motivation is either an exact opposite or common thread of some PC/Rival characteristic...seeking the beauty's affection openly, business ventures, working for opposing, but non-hostile bosses, etc.
What changes a Rival into a Nemesis is the shear hatred towards each other, that the mere sight of one another would cause a battle to the death if possible. This makes it very hard for the DM to maintain, because he/she has to continue the Nemesis' envolvment in the PCs life without them actually battling to the death. Once a battle is joined and with no way out, the killing of one or the other obviously ends the Nemesis' role. To get some ideas as to how this can be accomplished check out TV series were there is always the same Big Baddy fighting the good-guys (mostly cartoons). You will see that in most cases it is the 'evil' henchmen that do the actual dirty work, while the Nemesis stays behind the scenes.

Please, my fellow members give your opinions and ideas on this...
Von Romig


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Message 5120 of 6766 Reply

Continuating Subjects... vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/21/01 5:08 am
As time passes while in this club I would like it very much if we all can continue certain subjects not only to help and give ideas to 'older' members but also involve and get such help and ideas from newer members as they join. I see it as a shame, in a sense, to not get someone who has just joined to give their ideas on something like....PCs With Land, Beginnings, and/or Villians. And all because they joined after that discussion was 'over' and they may not feel like reading back through the thousands of posts. But if present members keep them 'alive' then as a new member joins he/she too will add to this.

So I am asking that at any time you have experienced or thought up anything new just put it under the appropriate title and post it. Whether this turns out to be semi-daily, weekly, or even monthly---with enough members doing this the good subjects will show up frenquently enough. Let's make it so that no good subjects die in the Dungeon Master's Guild. We are all here aren't we to give and receive ideas as DMs.

This is by no means a complete list but examples of subjects we might like to keep open...
PCs and Land, PC Rewards (like kinghood and such), Villians in My Game, Beginnings (both start-ups and side adventures), Major NPC Ideas, Interesting Settings (whether a unique room in a temple or unusual hillside formation), A Storyline Idea...

I did work up a few of the titles to help newer members who would read it to understand the idea of what the post is giving. But having read all the posts myself these subjects, having been discussed in one form or another, sticks out for me. Feel free to 'wake' up any subject that you like, at any time...

(trying to help make this the best AD&D club)
Von Romig


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Message 5121 of 6766 Reply

My Two Cents Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/21/01 5:46 am
I agree with Von Romig's sentiments wholeheartedly. There is nothing worse than signing up for a club and being completely ignored or overlooked by its members. I've been here two days and am very pleased to have had some people respond to my ideas etc. As a younger DM, I think I could offer something of use to older DMs, whilst still learning from their infinite wisdom (we're not worthy). Rather than posting several new posts, I'll put a little on each topic here. Here goes.
*PCs and Land- In my last campaign I ran the Night Below module and had several players pool funds to build a fortress complex outside of Freelance. Rather than just allow them to build on farm land, they had to earn it through a small task for a local Baron (see that horde of Orcs? Kill them all). In the end it turned into quite a profitable venture, and the wildlife sanctuary established by a particularly ambitious Ranger not only attracted tourists but also the attention of local sages. (By sanctuary I mean several miles of forest).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5120 by vonromig

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Message 5122 of 6766 Reply

The Leban Brotherhood Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/21/01 5:50 am
Here is some detail on an adventure I've been working on;
My most interesting beginning was actually having the parties pitched against each other by their respective leaders. None of them were aware of their situation and began a guerrilla war with reckless abandon. When they finally figured out that they were being played against each other by a powerful and sadistic noble, they united to earn some payback.
*My favourite module (that I've written) is one I am working on now called the Leban Brotherhood. In my world this organisation is a powerful bandit guild of Orcs and their allies. Once a year they select a local warrior/mage etc. and place a bounty on his head. Assassins from across the Known World compete to kill this man. What a coincidence, a member of the party is selected? A survivor of this sadistic act tracks down the party and advises them to travel to the guild's secret stronghold and kill Lord Leban, the elusive leader of the contest. Once the party heads off, their mysterious informant turns out to be Lord Leban himself! Travelling into the ancient stronghold the party must fend off Orc guards, potential assassins and all manner of fiendish trap before finally confronting Lord Leban and his demonic allies. But everything doesn't fit. Why were devils helping Lord Leban? And why did several maps of this ancient Dwarven garrison display a much larger city beneath? In an adventure of truly epic proportions (at least hopefully) the party uncovers a bizarre plot by the Baatezu to spread their foul touch from beneath the world using a deadly crossbreed of Orcish soldiers. The details are sketchy at present, due to the adventure only being notes at present. Any suggestions, feedback, criticism etc. I have a general premise, I am really looking for a couple of earth shattering mysteries to throw into it.


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Message 5123 of 6766 Reply

My not so noble Paladin Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/21/01 5:55 am
I should probably have noted a few things about my Dwarf paladin. Bare in mind, these were the ideas of my player, not me, read at your own risk.
*He originally wanted to play as the son of Moradin but the idea never really made sense to me. If he was a demi-god, why would he be trekking around helping peasantry when his own race is being destroyed by Goblin hordes? In the end I settled for a Prophet approach, but it still didn't explain his allegiance with evil. In the end I settled for this.
*He was an avatar to Moradin, and in a typical 'fallen angel' situation, he was turned from divinity by the promise of power and gold. This isn't impossible, and Catholic DMs (do any others exist?) should be familiar with the Satan story detailed in the Bible. So now he wanders the world, cast from wherever and forever cursed. Of course, he is something more than a normal fighter, but he isn't entirely a Paladin. I've given him standard fighter abilities with one or two benefits befitting his sub-deity status. His alignment is Chaotic Neutral, not the standard Lawful Good of Dwarven Paladins.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5102 by Umbratikus

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Message 5124 of 6766 Reply

Major Vampires Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/21/01 6:05 am
OMG, I love the idea of Mary Lee (in reference to Matt). How unspeakably evil could you make her! I also liked the pious Vampire, it would make for interesting roleplaying. I've only ever used two Vampires (apart from the aforementioned Trasian). The first was the woman who made Trasian a vampire, a lady by the name of Shiraz with little real power. The second was Bodine, who my party recently slew under orders from Jors Jorgenson (a noteable and dead NPC from my world). Bodine was a former friend and confidant of Jors, both of whom were Paladins, but Bodine was lured away and in the end betrayed his best friend to murder. In punishment for his deeds he was cursed by Pelor (the Paladin's patron god) and forced to live a life forever banished from the sun's warming embrace.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5113 by mattbcieri

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Message 5125 of 6766 Reply

Gay Vampire Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/21/01 6:26 am
I am 72 inches tall, although the name originated much earlier as a joke between myself and a few PCs (how far can this fire? is the premise to the easily guessed punch-line). I did toy with the idea of forcing the PCs into a situation as you describe. It is sooo easy to terrify the guys who play down here, all of them typical Ozzie blokes. :). Not that I'm not an Ozzie bloke, it doesn't bother me as much. I had a player become an Ogre's prison 'bitch' at one point, he didn't apprecite it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5111 by thrandorian

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Message 5126 of 6766 Reply

Re: Continuating Subjects... sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 4/21/01 7:29 am
Continuing a subject, as to the motivations of the characters in my campaigns, I prefer three options:
1) The enemy only has a different viewpoint to them and is not really EVIL as different. However, he is still working against them so they have a choice of kill him and know he didn't do anything wrong or change his attitude.

2) The enemy is of a demonic/automatically evil nature e.g. baatezu/dark elf schemes. My entire campaign is currently built on dark elves being responsible for EVERYTHING. Amulets of Disguise produced en masse :-) These enemies have the motive of furthering their nation/race's power like patriotism does but slightly nastier.

3) The enemy started off trying to accumulate power for research/good of others and got corrupted by an evil artifact/miscast spell/potion which turned him into an abhomination. For those who have read Terry Brook's 'Shannara' series then picture the Ildach being found by Brona.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5120 by vonromig

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Message 5127 of 6766 Reply

AG's Scorcher Myrkul999
(22/M/Ft. Lauderdale, FL) 4/21/01 8:48 am
For those of you bemoaning this spell, Beware the Forgotton realms Hardback campaign setting coming out in june. Likely they'll publis it, and all those other game-frying spells.

Quote from the wotc web site:"And then come page after page after page of cleric domains and spells. Spells you've known and loved (and missed since the new rules came out). And many new spells. Cool new spells. Cool new spells you'll want to scribble into your favorite mystical tome as quickly as you can." Tremble, DMs, Tremble.


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Message 5128 of 6766 Reply

Flaming Sphere Calitrojan
4/21/01 1:28 pm
Is a Flaming Sphere dextrous enough to go up and down stairs? Must the wizard be able to see his sphere to properly control it?


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Message 5129 of 6766 Reply

Re: Gay Vampire thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/21/01 2:56 pm
How about a character like "Blade" (Wesley Snipes) Then you can kick serious ass, have Vampire skills and just scruff the little girl on the head after you slice, dice and saute' the baddie bloodsuckers who were planning to change her lifestyle. The conflict fought within you and strictly held discipline required to resist the temptations burning within, would make a challenging and interesting character to run.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5125 by Inches_72

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Message 5130 of 6766 Reply

New Map lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 4/21/01 5:08 pm
Hi,
I am I new to the club. I posted my map of my campaign world in the photos section. Questions comments and short speeches are always welcome.

Joe


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Message 5131 of 6766 Reply

World Building 7- Power Bases vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/22/01 3:44 am
Throughout the course of designing your world, and even creating powerful NPCs, developing the corporations infrastructures, or inventing the history of conquests and legends of your world, keep in mind that all of these things are built upon Power Bases.

A Power Base is that which gives the 'item' or person a value beyond its simple existence. (the 'item' can be a village, city, kingdom, stronghold, barony, providence, guild, organization, or unified network).

What determines an 'item' or persons 'Total Power Base' is the number, and their levels of each, under its control.

Power Bases include; the amount of manpower, military force, major and minor elements, resources, wealth, unique/useful ablilties, special individuals (major NPCs), enhancing structures, any cohesive force (like loyalty, honor, duty, fear, worship, etc) and its ranking within its category/sphere/industry.

And each Power Base is given a level based on its strength, usefulness, or amounts. (Having 100 fighting men is of a lower level then 1000 men.)

Why take notice of something's Power Base?
It determines the outside world's view of that 'item' or person.
Example 1; A city like Rome has many, if not all, of the Power Bases listed and most of them with high levels, this makes it more glorious and desirable to rule, conquer, or have as an ally. And by the DM being aware of this fact the actions taken when Rome is involved will be a reflection of its Total Power Base. So when the DM is faced with a situation like...The leader of Rome and the leader of Tinyville both wants exclusive trade rights with the Island of Gold he will have a better idea of which one would get it.
Example 2: The PCs are working for the Duke of Smalltown (with a low TPB) to find a lost magic item. Another rival group is working for the Thief's Guild leader, Nakanuwee (with a high TPB). So with the DM's knowledge of the competitor's Power Bases the NPC group under Nakanuwee would have a better shot at reaching said magic-item first. Perhaps the networks and more money of Nakanuwee would allow the NPCs to get info quicker and easier then the PCs. Thus to the PCs, the NPCs would always seem ahead of them in their collective search.

If you actually get into this way of thinking you might be surprised as to how often it comes in handy to give a more realistic aspect to the how and whys. (for a DM to THINK that his Magic-User's Guild is more influentual then his Thieves Guild. But not to give them the Power Bases to show this, may make it seem funny to the PCs when they work for the M-U Guild, but the Thieves Guild has more capabilties and resources.)

Power Bases also come into play when writing your world's history. It will give you a better understanding as to how things might work out in a more realistic fashion. Like as to why this kingdom might be involved more in things then another, why the downfall of that guild meant little, or the death of some patriarch sent shivers throughout the shipping world.

You can give an actual numbering system for each Power Base and its level to give each 'item' or person a Total Power Base point total. ((like PB+L=TPB...Troops(5) plus number of troops 100(10) equals 15 TPB. OR Three Factories(3) plus 'fair' level of industry(2) equals 5 TPB.))
To me this is OK if you have the time and can do it for everything, but I just keep an understanding of this concept in my head whenever an appropriate situation arises.
Von Romig


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Message 5132 of 6766 Reply

World Building 8- Detailing Help vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/22/01 5:18 am
If by some chance you happen to follow this series on World Building, actually desided to use it in creating your world, and saw my post (#4854) on getting my world hard-bounded into book form at Kinko's, you might think of whipping up a world and rushing down to your nearest copy center to do likewise. My suggest is, don't. I had my world written up in notebooks for many years. Adding, subtracting and editing things in it all the while. My maps have gone through several major changes over that time as well. Movies, books, and most certainly the players have given me new ideas and shown holes or contridictions in my world's make-up. So I say wait awhile and be sure the bugs are all worked out...rewrite it many times, double check all of its facts, and get your player's feedback. {And even then, when I thought I had it finished, I went to the local high school, one that I didn't even go to, and actually got one of the English teachers to be my Editor.} Then got it put in book form.

For help in working out some of the details, or even giving you ideas as to what details would look good in it, go to the Library. Their reference section is quite informative; they have books an castle designs, medieval names, city plans, cultural and society make-ups for the various kingdoms during the middle ages, on the industrial and common tools of the medieval period, and much more. Check out their folklore section for books on elves, dwarves, and all sorts of legends and monsters. Mythology for pantheon designs and deity creations. And to work up a good History look through books on world history to see their style of writing...what info they try to get across and how.

Hope this series, if nothing else, has given you other members of this club some ideas in World Building 101. The Advanced Course; World Building 201, will come after my series on Campaign Creation.
Von Romig


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Message 5133 of 6766 Reply

Re: Flaming Sphere Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/22/01 5:24 am
In reference to part a of your question, I recently had a trap in which a pair of Flaming Spheres (one at each end of the hall) rolled towards the party, into a pit and back out the other side. The rules don't state it hovers but as the DM, it is your option to tinker with it a little bit. If mine could go up the sheer side of a pit, yours could easily scale stairs.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5128 by Calitrojan

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Message 5134 of 6766 Reply

In the Mail Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/22/01 5:27 am
Wohoo! Tommorow the new Psionics Handbook and the Complete Book of Fighters and Monks arrive! No point in posting really, has anyone else experimented with the new psionics rules?


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Message 5135 of 6766 Reply

Re: World Building 8- Detailing Help Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/22/01 5:29 am
Just a piece of helpful info. A few years back a friend of mine went on a tour of a publishing factory (correct term?) where they churn out thousands of books. They sell spare hardcover books (about the size of an Encyclopedia with some 300 pages) for very little. I draft things onto notepads and then copy it into there. They're so cheap, it is easy to get another in case you screw up

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5132 by vonromig

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Message 5136 of 6766 Reply

Re: Continuating Subjects... midgetoo2us
4/22/01 8:02 am
Very good idea, Von. I had thought of keeping a list of the message numbers in each subject. I enjoyed the Great Alignment Debate very much and didn't copy any since I got about 200 posts all at once. (Hadn't been online in 2 weeks.)

I'll try to set aside some time to go back, at least to there, and copy the numbers so that, if someone wants to reread a series, they can just go directly to the messages.

Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5120 by vonromig

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Message 5137 of 6766 Reply

Re: Rivals and Nemesis midgetoo2us
4/22/01 8:17 am
Rivals would work just as you said and they are a great on-going hook. The party is whooping it up in a tavern when the rival(s) walk(s) in. Suddenly there is history (what happened last time), interest (what are they up to now?) and another way to get the players going. Maybe the rivals are boasting and bragging that they are on their way to do something the party is also interested in. The party listens long enough to get the facts and then slips out to get a head start.

The Nemesis is a bit tougher, as you said. Excellent to keep him in the background where he can't be eliminated quickly. A Nemesis needs much more fleshing out, though. Why does he LOATH the party. Why doesn't he act more directly, etc. But very much worth the extra investment.

One of the best ways to get a party going is to know that the ratbag they thought they had defeated actually survived and is now after them.

An on-going villain is almost a necessity for an epic campaign.

Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5119 by vonromig

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Re: Villian Motivations-What they Want midgetoo2us
4/22/01 8:20 am
Matt - I really like the Villain misguided ideas. I think that will work for my master villain, Morthond.

Thanks for all the great ideas!

Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5096 by mattbcieri

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Message 5139 of 6767 Reply

Re: Rivals and Nemesis Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/22/01 8:31 am
I once gave my party a set of rivals who mirrored them in almost every way except they were all female. This ploy not only angered the more chauvanistic members of the group but it also gave me ways of foiling particularly nefarious but painful scehmes they had developed.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5137 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5140 of 6767 Reply

Re: Rivals and Nemesis mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/22/01 9:16 pm
Why a nemisis does not act directly, may be because direct action is beneath him.

I have a Ravenloft Campaign, where a very old and powerful litch has decided to kill the party since they killed off one of his students.

He is too busy creating undead, spell reseatch, creating magic items, etc. To go and mess with the party directly. So he brews up a horde of skeletons or zombies and they go after the party.

Eventually the party will begin to find hints and cludes as to where the Crimson Skull is layered. (I am hoping they are nearing 20th level at that point, so they do not get killed off too easily).

just a thought on Nemesises

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5137 by midgetoo2us

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Re: In the Mail wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/23/01 8:56 am
WOW Inches......

I got the Psionics Handbook as soon as it came out March 1st. Is the mail system there in Australia that slow or did you just finally order it? Just wondering... that's all.

Enjoy the books Inches.... They both are AWESOME.......


Wixlar Xeoric (Abjurer)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5134 by Inches_72

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Message 5142 of 6767 Reply

Re: New Map wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/23/01 9:03 am
Just went to check out this map....

Sorry... No map....

Maybe Iam just looking at the photo section wrong.

Wixlar Xeoric (Abjurer)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5130 by lordneodig

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Message 5143 of 6767 Reply

Psionics Calitrojan
4/23/01 11:05 am
I recently allowed two players to come in as a pair of psionic characters. One is a telepath, the other is a psychic warrior who specializes in mobility. They came up with backgrounds to tie themselves together, making them a psionic team, where they help enhance one another and support one another (a good idea because my campaign has a high mortality rate for low-level characters.)

I just wanted to say that while I have yet to get a good idea of the powers of the telepath (he is still weak and doesn't have many powers to use, though he does use them in role-playing situations rather than combat) because he mainly hides from fights. I do have a good grasp on the psychic warrior. Thisplayer chose to go the route of mobility instead of graftng weapons and such. I did not think the mobility would be that big of a deal, but his 2nd level PC has a movemement of 60... meaning he can effectively charge 120 feet... Thus far he has run circles around my enemies... poking them from afar with his duom (from Sword and Fist). I have new respect for the mobility issue. As they say in the US Air Force, Speed is Life. In a few levels he will be able to run straight up walls and leap great distances (50' or so). Soon I will be forced to come up with some new ideas on slowing him down...


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Message 5144 of 6767 Reply

Re: New Map pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/23/01 12:03 pm
I liked your map, good names for the places, interesting theme. Also interesting boundries, kind of races, with rivers and hot spots.

I have bought some nice mapping tools but have not used them much.. I like cartography though, so it is one of my favorite parts of being a DM and gaming.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5130 by lordneodig

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Message 5145 of 6767 Reply

Re: World Building 8- Detailing Help pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/23/01 12:18 pm
As for binding my worlds, well, loose leaf binders have always been good enough. Plus I can just get a three hole punch and keep all the papers neat and tidy.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5132 by vonromig

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Message 5146 of 6767 Reply

Rivals and Nemesis pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/23/01 12:35 pm
I like Matt's approach, build the party up before you squash them like bugs.

In my current campaign which has been running since September or so meeting twice a month, early on I have started dropping hints about the charactors Nemesis. So far, from what they know, it is a Cult of Evil magic users and that their symbol (sometimes warn by their minions) is a hand holding three fingers up, the other two fingers holding a globe with a somewhat accurate depiction of some continents. The three fingers that are pointing up have eyes in the finger pads, one per finger. They are still trying to track the group down as a background "Quest" but have yet to get very far.

Someone earlier mentioned the difference between a rival and a nemesis in their campaigns. In my campaign, a rival would generally be an equal, who could be caught and dispatched with work from the players. The Nemesis, on the other hand, is always a little ahead of the players, and even if they ruin his current world enslaving scheme, well, he gets to sneak away, regrow his powerbase, and in the immortal words of the Brain, from Pinkey and the Brain, "Do what we do every night, Pinkey, Try to take over the world!"

Don

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5140 by mattbcieri

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Message 5147 of 6767 Reply

Re: Rivals and Nemesis thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/23/01 4:22 pm
Another reason a big, bad guy may not act directly is simply to survive. Especially ancient evil creatures have every reason to work through others. That's one way to live long and prosper. There are lots of literary examples of this from Sauron in The LOtRings to Adolf H. They could be killed or captured (Sauron was in the Silmarillion)

I have had a sneaking hunch for a while now that this may actually be the chief reason why the gods are rarely seen taking direct action on the prime material and that other given reasons are political rhetoric.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5140 by mattbcieri

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Message 5148 of 6767 Reply

Re: Rivals and Nemesis vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/23/01 4:24 pm
Some rivals can turn into great nemesis. Probably my best use of this premise was in the "Green Letter" Campaign.

The party was at this time trying to find an old cleric and had stopped for the night in a small village, where they met up with their rival group. (a more evil band of adventurers seeking also the meaning of the encypted message on the 'green letter'...which was given to the Baron of Moon Keep, unanimously). But on this occasion their normal taunts and barbs led to one of the PCs striking a member of the rival group. The NPC group being the weaker, but slightly more intelligent group, retreated out of the inn. During the night the NPCs kidnapped the party's elven female character, using magic and stealth. The ego-driven fighter, Hamm, that was hit earlier, then proceeded to beat and rape the female, Tamurani. Before the PCs woke the rival group had dropped the unconscious lady off at the inn's front door and told the local constable that the strangers at the inn (the PCs) had raped and tossed in the street a passing (female) silk merchant. It took until Tamurani awoke to staighten things out...nearly two days, and by then the rivals were long gone.
...When they finally reached the Blue Oak Shrine the PCs found the old cleric had been tortured and killed. Who did it? A lock of Tamurani's hair had been stuffed in the cleric's mouth. From that moment on they were nemesis. The info the NPC group got from the cleric put them ahead of the PCs.

I like to pat my self on the back every time I think of how I was able to keep them almost constantly out of sight but causing havoc with the party. Even the time that the party had caught the nemesis' thief (Ragaban) and the PC's paladin (Sir Greer) had talked the party into turning him over to the city guard for trial and punishment. Only to have the NPC group break him out of prison and later to have Ragaban kill Sir Greer's Warhorse with poisoned feed (another point of tension to make the paladin regret not letting the party kill him outright).

Anyone else have Rival and/or Nemesis stories?
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5146 by pirates_life_for_me

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Message 5149 of 6767 Reply

Re: New Map vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/23/01 4:47 pm
Nicely done. You can see some thought went into it and the areas can lead to many possiblities. How long have you been playing in this world? Do you have the areas and kingdoms descibed for players to read?

I wish I had a scanner to show my world to the other members of this club.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5130 by lordneodig

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Message 5150 of 6767 Reply

Re: New Map lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 4/23/01 5:23 pm
Thanx, I did the map free hand (so to speak) on photoshop. I'd be interested in the mapping software you have tried.

As far as the world, I have run two campaigns on it, one lasting 4 years, and one lasting three years, and I am about to start a brand new one centered in a unplayed part of the map.

You're right about the racial divisions. The eastern half of the map is divided into three realms, elven, dwarven and human, because the reality of the world is similarly divided. Elves are masters of magic, and completely dead to psionics, dwarves are psionic adepts, but arcane magic is an anathema to them, humans do not excel at either, but are the only race who can use both.

I also have this 1000 year event where portals open to various prime material planes and suck people/creatures into this plane. Thus my world has touches of Oerth, Athas, Faerun, and Krynn. (The leader of the brotherhood of Set, a terrorist organization against the Alexandrian Empire, is a 30th Athasian Dragon)

If you would like to hear more, just drop me an email.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5144 by pirates_life_for_me

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Message 5151 of 6767 Reply

Re: The Leban Brotherhood vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/23/01 5:32 pm
Very interesting start to a complex storyline...

May I make a few suggestion?

1) I would keep 'Lord Leban' out of player's knowledge. Let him be a legend to only the underworld and these assassin competitions seem to the world as though from some orcen tribe alone...the Brotherhood is secret and the players must learn of it too.

2) While the players are thinking that they need only find some orcen leader to stop the 'blood game' on their fellow member the arrival of minor demons would throw them for a loop.

3) Lord Leban's choice for the target in these contests are actually individuals his Seer or some future-seeing magic item foretells could stop him. His way of getting rid of the Fates' chosen Heroes.

4) In a far distant land an ancient elven druid has, in his studies, seen the signs that gives indication that some great evil force will arrive soon. So on his own he has started to gather together an army of knights...who in time may be sent to fight this evil under the leadrship of the targeted PC.

This are some of my ideas. Can you see where I'm going with this? A lot of stuff can still be added to flesh out the story and plenty of misguiding adventures to throw off the players too.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5122 by Inches_72

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Message 5152 of 6767 Reply

Dungeon Master's Design Kit midgetoo2us
4/23/01 7:12 pm
I've gotten a lot of confidence from all of your posts and decided to pull out the old Dungeon Master's Design Kit. I'm going to try designing my own adventure.

This is a great kit with separate forms sheets for all the parts of an adventure such as:
Adventure Outline
Master Villain
Featured Creature
Traps & Deathtraps
Role Playing Encounters
Combat
Monsters
Chases
..........and many others.

Since I was searching for a villain motivation, I looked in that section and found some of your ideas plus a few others. A clever spy - Agent Provocateur, Advance Agent - vanguard of an invasion, The Avenger - Brimorror type, and others.

I especially like the instructions for creating and running a chase. I'll try that for sure.

The Adventure Cookbook is where I'll spend some time.

Ilsa


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Message 5153 of 6767 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/23/01 8:49 pm
I have never heard of the Dungeon Master's Design Kit...would you be able to go throught it in a series-like format in the club to share it with the rest of us. I am just about ready to start my own series own Campaign Creation and if you do one, using the Kit, then we would be able to give two differnt ways of starting up a campaign. The more info and ideas the better for all.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5152 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5154 of 6767 Reply

Role-Playing: Romance vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/23/01 9:06 pm
One of my weaknesses is the romanic side of role playing. How do I sit around the table with five or six guys and try to 'act' like a lovesick elven maiden to one of the player's character. It can be embarrassing to say the least. To be a female DM would make it seem a lot easier. But I am not. And I have had only one female player in the whole time I have been DMing and I basically blew that. I ended up doing all the male chauvanistic things to her...Having her raped, beaten, laughed at for being a female 'warrior', ignored by most of my sub-plot storylines, and such. I'm a lousy DM when it comes to playing AS or WITH women. I do hope I get another chance and do better the next time.

One this same line...how about characters that are married and me role playing the wife. Just to make it easy for me all my 'Wives' seem to sound and act like the stereotypical June Cleavers, friendly, agreeable and never in the way. And most times I resort to killing them off.

I need HELP!
Von Romig


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Message 5155 of 6767 Reply

This is a test mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/23/01 10:21 pm
I have been having difficulty reading today's posts. they show up on the Home page, but I can not open them. Anyone else have this problem?

Matt


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Message 5156 of 6767 Reply

Alternate Experience Systems trombone4hire
(18/M/Puyallup, WA) 4/24/01 12:14 am
Does anyone here use an experience system other than the one described in the books? I have come to develop my own because I just don't like book-keeping:

When the characters complete an adventure, accomplish something great, or develop the storyline a great deal, I award them with an extra level. I usually ignore experience costs for spells, unless a problem develops, in which case I give the spellcaster a number of experience points equal to what they would have to earn to attain their current level. If they run out, too bad (until they gain another level).

What do you think?


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Message 5157 of 6767 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit trombone4hire
(18/M/Puyallup, WA) 4/24/01 12:22 am
I saw the kit at the bookstore, and I'm thinking of buying it. Does anyone have any advice as to whether or not I should buy it?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5153 by vonromig

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Message 5158 of 6767 Reply

Re: This is a test lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 4/24/01 1:24 am
I get messages by email, and I haven't gotten any from my yahoo clubs all day, including this one. The messages have been freaking out too.

Is there someone at yahoo we're suposed to tell/bitch to?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5155 by mattbcieri

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Message 5159 of 6767 Reply

IT IS A DAY OF CELEBRATION! felsefeci
(27/M/ISTANBUL / TURKEY) 4/24/01 3:19 am
I konw many of the members didn't hear my voice; actually I'm proud with this club, bytheway not enough time to spent for it. But what you missed it is not a club. It is a brotherhood of the creators and rulers dark dungeons and shadowly forests. To re-crate original atmosphere the brotherhood Von Romig is honoured as the new leader of the GUILD. Respect him! Respect also past leader Pictii Amerikanus! Long Live The Guild!

felsefeci


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Message 5160 of 6767 Reply

Re: In the Mail Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/24/01 5:58 am
Australian suppliers take a while to get it, combined with my lack of money (being a student doesn't bring in much cash) meant I didn't order it until the 10th. Stupid holidays meant it hasn't arrived yet, probably won't be here until Friday. Sniff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5141 by wixlar_xeoric

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Message 5161 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/24/01 6:06 am
I'm confused. Are you not male or female. I was under the impression you were male, then I got an email from you and your name was female and now you're male again? *Shakes head* Either way, I understand the predicament. I am male and every player I've DMed was male, except for my ex-who it was easy to roleplay with :). Anyways, my best suggestion is to avoid romantic encounters, no matter how much fun they are, playing them poorly leads to the players losing the illusion of realism. Never had players become involved in a relationship, except for prostitutes, who my (16 year old) players always seek out.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5154 by vonromig

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Message 5162 of 6767 Reply

Re: This is a test Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/24/01 9:43 am
I get messages through Yahoo! mail, no problems yet.
:)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5158 by lordneodig

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Message 5163 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 4/24/01 9:59 am
Re: Romance
I wouldn't toss it entirely. One of the best games I was ever in had several romantic plotlines going. For mature players, they can add a lot.

To get your feet wet, start with a stereotype - a funny one. Teenage crushes are fun like this. "Gosh, Mr. Paladin, I'm sure a *big*, *strong*, *handsome* man like you could protect me at the ball tonight." Flutter your eyelashes. Speak in breathy tones. Your PCs will laugh; it will be fun.

Once you and they are used to seeing you play female NPCs, you might want to take a stab at a more serious romance. You can still build off stereotypes (or archtypes, if you're being polite). The paradigm today is "woman torn between love/family and career." Maybe that revenge-obsessed bounty hunter has stolen a PCs heart, and returns the sentiments, but just can't stay with him until her father's killer is brought to justice.

Evil people can fall in love, too. What will the PC mage do when he finds out his Academy sweetheart, the one who's still in love with him, *also* has plans to replace the king with a puppet doppleganger? "No, my love, you can't talk me out of this. But you could rule from behind the throne, with me..."

Re: Wives
Got mom? You can model noncombative NPC females after women you know in real life: the iron nun from grammar school, the saccharine June Cleaver moms (who are maybe pining with despair on the inside), the shrews, the do-it-all volunteers, the checkout lady at the grocery store who takes vocal lessons at night, because one day she'll "make it big." What's most important to this wife? Herself, her husband, her kids? Something besides her family? And how does she show that love? Does she spoil the kids relentlessly, or does she adhere to 'spare the rod and spoil the child'? What does she dream about? Seeing her children grow up tall and strong? Growing old with her husband (so maybe she wishes he'd stop this adventuring nonesense)? Ditching them all and becoming a travelling bard?

The wife can be a PC class, too, especially if she's an NPC the group met while adventuring. Other adventurers are much less likely to suddenly lose the drive that sends them out into peril and become smiling "Yes, dear" zombies.

Re: Other Female NPCs
Just save gender for last when creating NPCs. Your insane mage can be male or female. Your cowardly bandit leader can be male or female. Generate the whole NPC, with character traits and motivations, then assign gender. Your female NPCs can be just as ruthless and cruel as your male ones; plus, they can bat their eyelashes at the PCs, sigh heavily, and claim that their evil lover charmed them into it all along.

Next time you watch a movie or read a book, pay special attention to the female villans and heroes. When you find one you like, steal her. (And if you can, try for a more inventive female villan that either the 'evil crone' or the 'temptress corruptor'; they're done to death).

Re: Female PCs
Ow. At least you recognize that what you put that poor woman through was wrong. Some PCs actually like the challenge of "proving" their female warriors in a chauvanistic society. But, IMHO, I'd never rape or beat *any* PC, male or female. You never know what sort of past your *player* has. Too many people I know of all genders have been victims of rape, molestation, or abuse.

---

There's actually an entire Yahoo club dedicated women in gaming. Check out:

http://clubs.yahoo.com/womenandrpgs

for more suggestions (if you want them).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5154 by vonromig

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Message 5164 of 6767 Reply

wishes vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 4/24/01 10:00 am
I can't say that i like the limits on a wish spell that the book spells out, but i try to stay consistant with the book just to be fair. but now one of my characters has a wish that he got from a deck of many things. his wish is totally unselfish and would right a great wrong in the world (attacks on Garl temples). (he wishes to know the ID of the person responsible so he can better capture and punish them)

however this is not one of the things the book says a wish can do. should i grant him the wish or should i do what most DM's do when some one tries to get more out of a wish than they should: twist it up a little and not give him quite the result he looked for.

vahjra


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Message 5165 of 6767 Reply

Comment On Vonromig's RPG w/Fem pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/24/01 10:11 am
Von,

I have only played with a couple of female role players regularly over the years. This form of escapism (Pretending with rules, DnD, RPGs in general) is a decidedly male past time. Of course, when you described how your players treated your female player(s) in your game, well I can understand why most gals would not enjoy putting up with that.


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Message 5166 of 6767 Reply

Re: Alternate Experience Systems pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/24/01 10:33 am
As DM the first thing I make clear to the players is they need to keep a record of what they did during the game. At the end of each session they list off what they did to level it behooves them to be accurate and thorough.

Beside points for an overall adventure and experience for killing monsters, I also give a base 25 points for an appropriate use of a skill, 50 points per level of an appropriate use of a spell, and a simple rule for amount of damage done to enemies in combat. 5 points per point of damage done plus or minus the difference in the level of the player and the monster in question.

This system has the advantage that high level character will seek out high level monsters. Most 10th level fighters can sweep threw a room of Orcs, in this case they don't get as much experience for it. They do get more experience for going after the big nasties though.

For example, Fred the the second level elf wizard, cast a sleep spell in combat. He gets 50 points. He uses his arcane magic knowledge skill to figure out that a secret door is trapped magically, he gets 25. If he had cast sleep on one of his party members because the party member suffered a bit oh insomnia that night (howling monsters in the night will do that to some more sensitive PCs)he would get no or less experience for the spell, because he was not facing some enemy while casting it. As the DM it is your right to figure out what is appropriate or not. (it is good to be god even for a day, no?)

As for the experience per hit point, each character records his own damage during combat and to what. If a second level fighter does 6 points of damage to an orc (1st level) the 6 * (5-1) or 24 points of damage. This gets everyone in combat, people who hang back only get the shared experience, which in my game is usually only half of what the monster is worth.

Caveats include... if an 18 str fighter does 20 points of damage to an 8 HP creature, he only gets the 8 points of damage experience. The other thing I am stressing here is don't keep this information, make the players record it themselves. You just guide them at the end the game with what their actions are worth. I generally play with 4 or 5 players and this takes no more than a couple minutes per player.

Also players get party experience whether they did damage or not in the encounter, they just get more if they did damage. If you think it is giving up too much experience, then halve the encounter experience to make up for the damage experience.

Don

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5156 by trombone4hire View Replies to this Message

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Message 5167 of 6767 Reply

Re: Alternate Experience Systems pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/24/01 10:36 am
In my previous post it should have read...

As for the experience per hit point, each character records his own damage during combat and to what. If a second level fighter does 6 points of damage to an orc (1st level) the 6 * (5-1) or 24 points of damage EXPERIENCE.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5166 by pirates_life_for_me

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Message 5168 of 6767 Reply

Stones of Power Evertree
4/24/01 1:18 pm
Has anyone ever heard of Sipstrassi stones or ever tried to incorporate them into your campaign?


E. Gerhen


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Message 5169 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/24/01 2:37 pm
The first step of getting help is admitting you have a problem...

My campaigns are usually pretty evenly balanced as far as player's genders go. Right now, I only have two players in my current campaign, both of whom are female, one being my wife Noelle. We've been discussing opening up the game and looking for players; if we do, I will almost certainly make sure that at least one of them is female.

Raping a PC? I've only done it once, and then only because the player (also female) agreed with me that it was what would happen in the circumstances she found herself in. We didn't play through it, just left it as "the next few hours are not very pleasent."

It sounds to me like you don't want to have female players because you are yourself uncomfortable. Female players want the same things generally that male players do - to have fun, to get lots of nifty loot, and to develop their character.

When you are playing a female NPC, don't think of it as "playing female", think of it as "playing a butcher" or whatever. When playing the wives, perhaps you could go to third person and move stuff you are uncomfortable with offscreen. "Your wife is delighted to see you, and welcomes you home enthusiasticly. After some time spent getting re-aquainted, you settle down and recount your most recent escapades. She tells you about the most recent happenings at home."

Don't try to act female - no offense, but your post comes across as "I can't act female because my friends might start teasing me about being gay". Unless you are an accomplished drag queen, you'll just feel silly and awkward, and your players will laugh at you. Be yourself, treat your female players, PCs and NPCs with respect, and I think you'll overcome your problems fairly easily.

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5154 by vonromig

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Message 5170 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/24/01 4:34 pm
My name is Kenneth Von Romig, but my Email address is under my wife's name, Jennifer. Sorry for any problems with those I have contacted by Email.

It is easy when your players wish to have a fling with the local barmaid or farmer's daughter in passing, but I have had many times when the PCs want a serious relationship with someone their equal. Like the thief meets an attractive female thief in his own guild, or the fighter wishes more contact with the Baron's neice. And then there is the fact that heroes who save the day would have female admirers...grouppies.

I just want some feedback on how others handle this and how they determine if an NPC female character falls for one of the Player's Character.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5161 by Inches_72

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Message 5171 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/24/01 4:50 pm
Thanks a lot for the info SCA Bard, and I will take a look at the other club, maybe join just long enough to get some female role-players view points on this subject.

FYI, I didn't do those things to have her 'prove' her self in my world, but that she made a good target for getting 'at' the group. In my mind at the time what is more of a motivator then a female in distress, especially one that you know?

The reason all my PC's wves act like June Cleaver is that the one time I had a wife say to her fighter husband, "Don't go, stay with me. Don't you love me any more?" The player asked me as a DM if I was trying to get him to quit his present character for a new one. After I explained that I wasn't, and was just trying to role-play his wife I came to guard myself...it seems that the players can put more into what is said, even out of game, then what you wish implied.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5163 by SCA_Bard

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Message 5172 of 6767 Reply

Re: wishes vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/24/01 5:05 pm
Here is just my opinion, I am sure others would be happy to add theirs...

A wish spell is a very powerful spell, 9th level. It can even return someone from the grave. Therefore, the knowing of a specific persons name is rather trivial. Unless the player knows who the NPC is already and this would give away to much (perhaps the party doesn't suspect it is their friend, Golumdar the local librarian). Otherwise a name alone doesn't help much. The NPC attacking the Garl Temples may not be known by anyone but his mother his REAL name. And this is the name given to the player for his wish. But even if the get a name that they can use but don't know themselves as to who it is, then the party asking to many questions about so-and-so would tip him off and cause him to flee, counter-attack, or change his identity.

Hope this hepls a little...
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5164 by vahjra

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Message 5173 of 6767 Reply

Re: Comment On Vonromig's RPG w/Fem vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/24/01 5:10 pm
True, but since it has only been the one time that I had a female player I hope to avoid the same mistakes the next time a female joins in.
Ideas to this effect is what I'm seeking.

Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5165 by pirates_life_for_me

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Message 5177 of 6767 Reply

Re: New Map mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/24/01 9:13 pm
I have a scanner, and I believe several other members do as well, if you could get a photo copy of the material, and send it I would be willing to scan it for you.

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5149 by vonromig

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Message 5178 of 6767 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/24/01 9:16 pm
I am with Von Romig on this one.

any info which you are willing to share from this book, would be greatly appreciated.

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5152 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5179 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/24/01 9:50 pm
I take exceptions to some of your comments, but I do not wish to start a flame war, and I also understand I may have misinterpreted your tone.

Let me present some of my counterpoints as neutrally as I can:

I do not think you need be either gay, nor a drag queen to roleplay a convincing female character.

There are certain elements to roleplaying that are quite similar to acting. A good actor uses techniques to convince the audience and to be believable.

A good basis (As SCA_Bard stated, is to begin with the steryo-types.)

If direct verbal Roleplay is uncomfortable for Vonromig, there are a few options he can take to make the situation more palitable:

1) Sit down with his players ahead of time, discuss their role play goals, as related to the female character. As Ceaser said "Give them what they want".

The PC's have a vast idea of their character, more so than you as a DM for the most part. letting the PC's tell you what their goals, hopes, fears, desires, and aspirations will go a long way for you the DM to understand what the PC is all about.

Vonromig, may get some clues as to how detailed the PC's wnat their encounter. You stated, you andyour PCagreed on what would happen, then the desreiption was "The next few hours are not all that pleasant"

2) He can reherse roleplaying a female, till he becomes comfortable. I belonged to the Speach and debate club in highschool. We practices our orations infront of the mirror, till we were comfortable.

3) He can defer to parchment! Write out the encounter ahead of time, then when the time is right, hand over the paper to the PC, and let them read it.

(If Vonromig wanted to be evil, he could shift the uncomfortable feeling by having the PC read it aloud).

If the discomfort level were that great for me, I might try this evil ploy once (but with each player) so that they could feel the discomfort. I would make sure they would all agree up front before hand. The only reason I would spread the feeling, is so that the next time I attempted to role play the female character, the other PC's would be more forgiving, and more sympathetic.

4) This is a sub point to option 3 which is to go and get a trashy paperback novel (The ones usually found in drugstores, some time called dimestore novels), and copy a few pages out or it as the encounter he is going to place on the parchment for the PC.

I too have noticed the discomfortable tone in Vonromig's post, but what makes you say he does not want female players?

He has asked for pointers on how to deal with these situations (If he ever gets the chance, again).

Your advice to treat the PC's with respect (no matter their gender) is great stuff.

I am just wondering why you drew the conclusions that you have? (Unless I am missing the point of a jets that was made light heartedly, and I am taking it too seriously. correct me if I am wrong.)

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5169 by lfnotter

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Message 5180 of 6767 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/24/01 9:54 pm
Ilsa,

Is this Adventure Cookbook, another book, or is it part of the DM Design Kit?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5178 by mattbcieri

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Message 5182 of 6767 Reply

Re: Comment On Vonromig's RPG w/Fem mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/24/01 10:17 pm
I have several points I wish to make to you over the bast several posts mostly related to this topic:

I to belong to the Women Gamers club and highly recommend it. I have gotten some good feedback from that club. It has been a little slow the past few weeks, but seems to be picking up.

I had started a personal quest to be able to roleplay a convincing feemale, and I thought I met with quite success. It was an online, MUSH type of game. I was not expecting the obvious. Soon after the player character started hitting on my character, the player stated hitting on me!!! He was not amused when he found out who I really was, to say the least. Even though we never met, I could understand your feelings of discomfort.

I have included some ideas for you in a previous post, here they are again in short form:

1) talk to the players about what they want, theit Pc's want.

2) Reherse the female characters you are trying to portray.

3) Write the encounter

4) Steal an encounter from a trashy novel.

5) Starting with stryo-types is good.

As you know, I love throwing in a good twist. I will take a trite cliche, and alter it to totally throw off the Players.

There may be some Net Books out there that offer advice on this stuff. I know there is one on roleplaying sex (believe it or not).

I have been thinking of some ideas about the How to's of being a DM.

One idea is that the "Point" of role playing is to have "fun" for all involved. One of the pitfalls i have falled into is forcing adventures (A lot in Ravenloft, but in other places as well).

So a counter measure I have been developing is sort of a PC Survey idea. (Cind of like a customer satisfaction survey from work).

Prior to a session, I will try to find out what the players want for their characters, and try to throw some of this in while placing the finishing customizations on the adventure.

After a session, I would ask the players if they enjoyed the session, getting a good feel for their reactions, and tailoring the next sessions accordingly.

maybe we could start a new line of posts on the How to's of being a good DM?

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5173 by vonromig

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Message 5183 of 6767 Reply

Re: Alternate Experience Systems trombone4hire
(18/M/Puyallup, WA) 4/24/01 11:12 pm
The reason I'd rather not use the system in the books is that I don't want to reward PCs for hacking through monsters. If they want to kill a monster or if they want to sneak by, I don't want ot reward or penalize them (aside from giving them the equipment that the monster had). For example, if there is an enemy encampment, and they need to steal a powerful scroll from the powerful wizard leader while he's asleep (so he won't be able to use it in the upcoming battle), they can pick their own way in. If they want to sneak in through the back, and never alert the enemy to their presence, I'll reward them for it. If they want to assassinate guards, and walk in and attack the leader, I'll reward them for it. If they want to issue a challenge to the leader and kill him, I'll reward them for it. I wouldn't give them a full level reward, I'd just mark it down as a minor success, and when they accumulate five or so, I'll give them a level boost.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5166 by pirates_life_for_me

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Message 5184 of 6767 Reply

Re: Alternate Experience Systems rubbercocktail
(20/M) 4/25/01 1:51 am
Have you tried using the xp system in 3e? From what I've read and the way I've seen myself and other people run their games, in most situations you get the same xp for killing an opponent as you do for sneaking past them, convincing them to let you by, bribing them, driving them off, etc..

The general rule is if your objective requires you to defeat or bypass an opponent, "enter orc lair and regain stolen potions", as long as you regain potions or whatever, you get the xp for any encounter that you successfully deal with. On the other hand, if you find a bunch of drunk non-combative orcs in the forest, you cant just start sneaking around them racking up points.

To sum it up, if there's a threat, and you deal with it, you get the xp regardless of whether you defeat the encounter in combat or otherwise.


sorry for rambling,

Charlie Gordon

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5183 by trombone4hire

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Message 5185 of 6767 Reply

Re: It Is A Day of Celebration! DiscordianStooge
(21/M/Mankato, MN) 4/25/01 2:49 am
I think that if you go with putting the post #s on, just put the original posts for each topic. The replies are listed with that post anyway, so it would just take up space otherwisw. Though the whole world building sseries should simply be posted on the site, because it was damn cool!


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Message 5186 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/25/01 3:46 am
Ok, perhaps I wasn't clear about the statement on "acting female". Let me clarify.

Too many times I have seen male GMs fall into believing that the only way to portray a female NPC is with a lot of falsetto "Oh, you dahling man, you!" accompanied by a lot of flouncing, or with a very sultry "Hello, sailor!". That's what I was referring to as acting female. It doesn't work, and I find it really annoying.

I've worked with two people who were female impersonators and know or have met three different ladies who started out being men. In each case, these people lived and breathed being female - and very successfully. The contrast I was speaking of is the basis for my comment that male DMs should not try to "act female". The vast majority of us simply are not qualified to do so.

It's better to simply play the character. None of us, I'll wager, has ever seen a real live elf, and very few people try to act the part of one. They simply play their characters. So it should be with playing female NPCs.

Playing a convincing character of any type is a challenge, but it's part of being a good DM. If Von wants to get better at playing female NPCs, I salute him for recognizing his weakness and dealing with it, and I'll be glad to help however I can.

The amusing part about this exchange is that right after I posted my last message, I had to respond to a network issue for one of our users - who turned out to be a female gamer - The third one I've met on site since this contract started. Her comment on the subject was that she and the other female players she games with were constantly being harrassed by the male players - just because they thought that she was invading a male pasttime.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5179 by mattbcieri

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Message 5187 of 6767 Reply

Re: Comment On Vonromig's RPG w/Fem skid5212000
(M/Charlotte, NC) 4/25/01 10:02 am
I too have started playing female characters, online only as of now. I believe this has helped me to better play the female NPCs for the group I DM. I have learned that through the communication in the online game, I am able to get my "female" attitude across in just words and description of actions. Granted, I do have my fiance' helping me with the more flirty and romantic postings. Also, the other players know that I am a male playing a female character (might be good a idea to make that known, just in case).
I have begun to use this same method as DM. I don't change my voice or move in a "feminine" way. I describe the female's actions, but use my own voice and hand/body gestures. It works for me.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5182 by mattbcieri

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Message 5188 of 6767 Reply

Re: It Is A Day of Celebration! madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/25/01 10:09 am
<>

Do you mean "highly active" since 3/24 when you'd joined?

<<(including myself)>>

Hmmm ...


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Message 5189 of 6767 Reply

Re: Half Dragons krovar1972
4/25/01 10:31 am
I know, I know this is a reply to an old post.
In The Council of the Wyrms boxed set, it states that a Dragon that Polymorphs into human form has a percentile chance of forgetting how to turn back. I beleive every so many years the Dragon Pc can make a percentile role to see if he can make the transformation back into Dragon form. I don't know about you but after 2 or 300 years of being stuck in humanoid form. I might start finding other humanoid a bit appealing. The threat of getting stuck in humanoid form was realthreat. My way of thinking would lean towards the potential of the halfdragon being no more rare than say an Umberhulk, or Medussa.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 147 by Umbratikus

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Message 5190 of 6767 Reply

Re: Rivals and Nemesis Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/25/01 10:40 am
A Nemesis could be one sided hatred. It wouldn't necessarily be mutual. I suppose one could say that one side could see them as rivals, while the other as nemeses.

In an example from my own campaign, one evil blade (bard kit, a sword performer) was a mentor to another PC (Neutral) blade. In an argument over a magical sword, the mentor killed his apprentice's weaponsmith father. The weaponsmith was well respected in the town, and the mentor found himself a fugitive, and fled to the Outer Planes and the city of Sigil. The apprentice PC followed him there spending his time performing for money, and trying to hunt down his former mentor to avenge his father. The rival joined a subversive sect called the Illuminated who were trying to take over Sigil. The PC joined up with another PC, who's partner was slain by the Illuminated (although they had managed to foil their plot). Together they chased the rival NPC throughout the planes, as he led them on a wild goose chase and eventually trapped them on another prime material world. After finding a way off of that world, and back to their homeworld, the PC returned to his and his mentor's old stomping ground in hopes of finding him there. The rival had involved himself in the local (and very powerful) thieves guild there. The PC allied himself with a teifling bounty hunter hired by the Harmonium to track down surviving members of the Illuminated. Together they hunted him down, getting themselves on the bad sides of both the guild, and the local authorities. Eventually they tracked him down while he was on a mission for the guild and slew him quickly (with Annagazzar's(sp?) Scorcher, I might add). This whole process took a couple of years of gaming, but the point was that the PC's rival never bore any real animosity toward the PC, but the PC(s) hated this guy with a vengeance. The rival simply toyed with them, pissing them off even more.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5119 by vonromig

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Message 5191 of 6767 Reply

Re: Continuating Subjects... Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/25/01 10:47 am
I think one you have been around here as long as some of us have, you will see that most subjects come around again and again (like the dreaded Alignment Debate). Making a special effort to do so is unnecessary. I would much rather see this club organically flow from one subject to the next, as interest permits. The worthwhile subjects will come back again on their own.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5120 by vonromig

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Message 5192 of 6767 Reply

Re: New Map Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/25/01 10:54 am
Great Map, Neodig. What did you produce that with.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5130 by lordneodig

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Message 5193 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/25/01 10:59 am
OH OH OH PICK ME.....

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5169 by lfnotter

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Message 5194 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/25/01 10:59 am
OH OH OH PICK ME.....

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5169 by lfnotter

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Message 5195 of 6767 Reply

Re: New Map Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/25/01 11:05 am
Von,
Your buddies at Kinkos should be able to scan things for you (for a modest fee, of course).

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5149 by vonromig

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Message 5196 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/25/01 11:09 am
LOLOLOL Dang..... I hate it when you hit that return key and it sends your message before you are through with typing it....

Bryan....

Just to let you know, Iam still looking for a group. Every once in awhile, I go down to the Game Lair over there at 68th and Lowell, plus I help out with a group on Monday nights.

Maybe we can meet at the Game Lair this Saturday, they are having a Dungeon Crawl this Saturday at 7:00 pm.

Hope we can work something out.

Jonathon

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5169 by lfnotter

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Message 5197 of 6767 Reply

Re: IT IS A DAY OF CELEBRATION! wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/25/01 11:13 am
Congradulations Von Romig.....

Looks like you are going to have to get that World Building book published now.... LOL

Hope to see this Guild on a web site... COOL....


If you need a starting out wizard, I know a great Abjurer....

Wixlar Xeoric (Abjurer)


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Message 5198 of 6767 Reply

Re: IT IS A DAY OF CELEBRATION! Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/25/01 11:16 am
Felsefeci! Long time no post. Good to hear from you.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5159 by felsefeci

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Message 5199 of 6767 Reply

Re: DMG Website Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/25/01 11:23 am
Von

You might want to scan back about a year or so ago in the posts. There was interest at that point about putting together a website, but it never saw fruition. You might glean some content ideas from the discussion thereof.

Umbratikus


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Message 5200 of 6767 Reply

SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 4/25/01 11:25 am
Y'know, I probably wouldn't have even noticed it, if we weren't in the middle of a discussion on women n' gaming...

Just read Pictii's sidebar. Can we have this be a co-ed "brotherhood of creators," please?

I know, I know... we're lacking a non-gender specific word with the same connotations of family-level bonding, except maybe "family" which has "mom and dad and kids" overtones rather than "network of equals" overtones.

But given the current threads, I thought I'd be a weenie and point it out.


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Message 5201 of 6767 Reply

Re: madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/25/01 11:28 am
You go, girl!

I agree. How 'out just Guild of Creators?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5200 by SCA_Bard

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Message 5202 of 6767 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/25/01 1:33 pm
Not familiar with the Game Lair, but it's a possability. One thing you might do is have a look at our campaign website and see if the campaign is one that you'd be interested in. It's at www.beasthold.org. You can also email me offlist at lfnotter@uswest.net if you have questions.

ALso, if you could send me (offlist) some information about yourself (and your wife, if she would be interested also)and your gaming experience, that would help a lot, too. Because of recent events, the other players want to make sure the fit is right before accepting any new players.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5196 by wixlar_xeoric

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Message 5203 of 6767 Reply

Re: teyindahl
(22/F/Underhill) 4/25/01 1:35 pm
A Siblinghood of Creators?

I'm sorry, I had to. :)

On playing characters of the opposite sex: my first (and favorite) online RP character was male - not for any particular gender reason, just because I like the character (he's from a story I'm working on). I use his name for my Yahoo! ID, BTW.
My ex-boyfriend was telling me once about his online characters, one of whom is a female villan. I found it interesting that he made her a lesbian because he couldn't imagine himself "hitting on guys." But then he described some of the sessions and it seemed she just hit on (or at least teased) everyone indiscriminantly. He also didn't seem to have a problem with having a female NPC hit on the male PCs in a paper-game he DMed - but then the NPC turned around and started hitting on my (female) PC as well. It seemed he couldn't play a completely heterosexual female character.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5201 by madteuton

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Message 5204 of 6767 Reply

Re: lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/25/01 1:37 pm
I've always like "Cohort" and "Stalwart Band". Guild is nice, too. Unfortunatly, "Fellowship" has a few remaining gender-specific overtones. "Support Group" might be an accurate description, though.

Ohh - How about "Alliance of Creators"? That makes it clear that it's us vs. the players, and that we are sticking together for mutual benefit.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5201 by madteuton

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Message 5205 of 6767 Reply

Re: madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/25/01 1:44 pm
Oooo, the Creative Partnership or Partnership of Creators.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5204 by lfnotter

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Message 5206 of 6767 Reply

Hello All Ravenspire_jr
(23/M/St. John's NF) 4/25/01 3:15 pm
Hi fellow D&D lovers and DMs alike. Just to bring you up to speed I am a long time player from Newfoundland Canada and I have put up a campaign I have been working on up on the web feel free to look and please give me feed back.
Thanks and I look froward to talking to you all.
If you feel the need please use anything you like in your own campaigns or use it all if you like. I have a map but I havent linked it to the page yet.


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Message 5207 of 6767 Reply

Re: Hello All Ravenspire_jr
(23/M/St. John's NF) 4/25/01 3:18 pm
Sorry about that I forgot to put the address in the post.

www.geocities.com/ravenspire_jr/arbin.html

I also have it added to the link list.
thanks again.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5206 by Ravenspire_jr

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Message 5208 of 6767 Reply

Brotherhood & Website vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/25/01 4:51 pm
'Siblinghood of Creators', 'Creative Partnership',
'Partnership of Creators', Guild of Creators', 'Cohort', and 'Stalwart Band'.

All very good, at least we know we have creative imaginations in this Club. But what I think Felsefeci was using 'Brotherhood' for was 'Club'. More along the lines of Dungeon Master's Guild of Brotherhood. He did not like to use the word 'club', perhaps it has a different meaning in Turkey. As for our name, Guild is more than appropriate...as in the same function as a guild in our worlds, like thief's guilds or shipbuilding guilds. A place to exchange ideas, learn new things, and help each other to become better Dungeon Masters. I didn't mean for everyone to go off on a name changing spree :)
Sorry.

As for the website...I am very new to the internet, having only been on-line for a month or so, so some of the help I am looking for is ways to contruct it and its format. I have been to other websites (mostly WW2 genres) and noticed that in them you can hit different 'buttons' that take you to different screens as well as sections for taking you to different sites...(links?). They also had Guest Lists and Photo Galleries.

So, right now I am looking at the possiblity of having the Home Page (?) of the site be an introduction and a breakdown of the Guilds purpose. One button to take you to the Rules, another for Past Topics, one for Series (that any of the members create), and so on. Maybe have a Guest List???? Would love to have a gallery of everybody's world maps and Characters (PC and NPCs). What other ideas on this is what I need. Thanks.

I will be spending the next couple of days going back through all of the past messages. To get a list of past topics and find that conversation about this club's website. After that I will post my findings for your perusal and thoughts.
Von Romig


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Message 5209 of 6767 Reply

Re: Half Dragons vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/25/01 5:10 pm
Not only could a Halfdragon find his life around humans to be enjoyable and perhaps find some humans to be appealing, the reverse is also a reason to want to change back. The corruption and filth of human society could be more than any decent dragon-changling could bare. Therefore, it would be in his best interest to have periods of time, say every five years, to go on 'walkabouts', back in his Dragon form for several years. This would help keep his memory sharp. This would also help in brushing off the curious as to why this man lives so long...periodically he would return, after a 'walkabout', with a different identity.

Of course in your world there may be a whole hidden society of Halfdragons...perhaps behind the cover of some non-threatening organization. The Wine Tasters of Pagleri or Daja's Chess Emperium. Just my thoughts.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5189 by krovar1972

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Message 5211 of 6768 Reply

Re: lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 4/25/01 5:26 pm
How about "Gang of 622"

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5205 by madteuton

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Message 5212 of 6768 Reply

Spell Tar lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 4/25/01 5:33 pm
Here's an item I made. Questions comments short speeches are most welcome.

Spell Tar
This is a particularly interesting item created by the priests of Isis at the Great Library. It appears to be a small ball of tar, four inches in diameter, coated in some kind of clear membrane. Any spell that can be placed upon an object or an area of effect, such as Daylight (PHB Pg.191), Darkness (PHB Pg.190) or Silence (PHB Pg.252), can be placed on the Spell Tar. The spell will not take effect, unless the membrane of the Spell Tar is broken, or five rounds pass, whichever occurs first. When the spell takes effect, it is centered on the Spell Tar. The Spell Tar can be thrown as a grenadelike weapon and if it hits, the Spell Tar's coating is broken and it sticks to the creature. When figuring the AC of the target, only consider magical/psionic enhancements, and dexterity bonuses. The Spell Tar can only be removed from the creature/armor with much elbow grease (at least 2 hours of scrubbing). A liberal application of alcohol will cut the scrubbing time down to 15 minutes. It is common for priests of Isis to place Silence spells on these objects and toss them at spell casting enemies.
If the thrower misses, or throws the Spell Tar against a non-living object, the spell still takes effect wherever the Spell Tar lands. Use the random throw table for grenades(PHB Pg.138) to determine where it lands.
Spell tar is a alchemical substance, and the creator need not be a spell caster to create it. Anyone with the alchemy skill need only make a check (DC 25) and spend 25 gp per ball.


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Message 5215 of 6768 Reply

The Prince vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/25/01 5:40 pm
'The Prince' by Niccolo Machiavelli.

Since SCA Bard used the term Maciavellian and madteuton gave indications as to subversion what better time to bring up this great book.

The book is written as though Machiavelli was talking to a newly appointed noble in the Italian region in the early 1500's. He describes in detail how one can take power, hold on to it, and conquer others with as little problems as possible.

For those DMs who wish to spice up the politcal side of there world this book is fabulous. It is sure to give you ideas on; schemes for conquerors of kingdoms, political plots, and intricate plans by nobles.

As it is a classic, almost ever local bookstore will carry it and it's small size makes it cheap. You should check into it, even a library trip.
Von Romig


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Message 5220 of 6768 Reply

Re: Rivals and Nemesis thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/25/01 9:04 pm
My arch-villains usually have a tier system of subordinates and as such must be adequate managers if you will. Kinda like the mafia. Leaders are intelligent and sometimes even the most evil have appealing personalities, maintaining a positive image with their underlings.
The chief nemesis of good characters in my world is Mezgothrain. He is many millennia old. At this point in the storyline he has ascended to the outer planes and usurped a budding godhood for himself. He is far too busy with greater concerns to deal with the player chars. himself, even though they are his chief rivals upon earth/thrandor (which name depends on which of the 3 time frames simultaneously interwoven into the plot) Mezgothrain must deal with a range of issues and challenges upon multiple planes, negotiating or avoiding direct contact with the various gods themselves.

His 3 Lieutenants are fearsome enough on their own however and they have responsibility for each of the effected time frames.


Time frame #1 Pre-Thrandorian Earth. This is where the heirs were sent and where the 2nd generation Lords of Thrandor were born. A world of squabbling kingdoms, frequent monster raids and disorganization. The lords spend years making the land safe and creating a power base. They travel into the deepest depths of the ocean, find the fabled island of Atlantis and breath the air of scores of other planes and planets. Forty years of planning, building, dying just to be resurrected and thrown back into harms way again. Creating the bonds of respect necessary to bring all the kingdoms together under a thrandorian federation similar to the one which had served their forefathers. “Grom the Destroyer” is charged with dominating this time. He has imprisoned the 1st generation Lords of Thrandor in a pocket universe and is currently preparing to go from controlling the earth, to using it as a platform for an even greater invasion that could shift the balance of the entire multi-verse. The 2nd generation lords must attempt to defeat him.


Time frame #2:
“The Golden age”. The 1st generation “Lords of Thrandor” were the royal heirs to the major kingdoms of “Thrandor”. Their planet “Earth” is now named “Thrandor” after the world-wide federation they had built. An age of enlightenment and peace was at hand but Mezgothrain and his lieutenant “Dragas the Mindreaper” had other plans. Diverting a large meteorite from it’s path, they create a cataclysm upon the world. This brings about the planetary “winter” known as the “Nightland” The heirs are saved at the last moment and sent back in time to re-create history and rebuild the Thrandorian realm.

Time frame #3

“The Nightland”. It was ruled by, “Louprimus the Devourer” , until he was killed by the 1st generation “Lords of Thrandor”. They had chased his vassal/magic-user Katume’ to the plane of time and followed him into the “River of Time”. Using a wish to avoid being hopelessly lost, they killed Katume’ and found themselves in the “Nightland“ , a world of darkness, the world of their future. Lit only by the dull glow of a sun blocked by tons of atmospheric dust, fighting battles both large and small, they confronted Louprimus within his own spire of torture, fighting a battle of epic proportions that would have been lost if not for Jaques St Claire’, who teleported directly into his enemy killing them both.

How will it end? Who will win out? I hope my portal stays open long enough for me to see.........


T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5148 by vonromig

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Message 5221 of 6768 Reply

Re: Spell Tar DiscordianStooge
(21/M/Mankato, MN) 4/25/01 9:07 pm
Does this item have any real use, besides being able to wait 5 rounds for the spell to go off? It seems to me that most of the time you want a silence spell or darkness etc., you want it right now, to stop that enemy spell caster or confuse your enemies. Why not just cast it. If you could store it for longer, it might make more sense.
Unless I'm missing something?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5212 by lordneodig

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Message 5222 of 6768 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/25/01 9:45 pm
Well Von here's how I do it. I forget that there are players at all for a brief moment. Its hard to do for more than that. It is easier when you are winging a situation or at least not engaged in anything too technically demanding. You just have to be an actor. Compare how the actions of your male characters relate to your own success or failure with the (tee hee) softer sex. Roll d 20's and modify by your perception of the environmental variables.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5154 by vonromig

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Message 5223 of 6768 Reply

asking for comments/suggestions zarndelius
(28/M/The air isle of Rosebush) 4/26/01 12:48 am
hello, I just made a webpage for my online game, and i am looking for suggestions/comments on it if anyone would like to check it out its http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/SROS . Tell me whats u think


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Message 5224 of 6768 Reply

Re: asking for comments/suggestions lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/26/01 2:14 am
Please note: all of the following is constructive criticism. I'm responding to your post the same way I would to a request on one of the webcrafting lists I belong to. So, this is a review, not a flame.

Like the opening page. I'm guessing the main graphic is is a Poser figure imported into Bryce. Is it yours? If so, great job! Very evocative, though the figure being in the Poser default position is a little stiff. If it is not your work, you should attribute it properly, preferably by getting the artist's permission.

Grammer is really rough. If your editor doesn't have a spellchecker, pull your text into Word and clean it up. Grammer and spelling can make or break your site. I have the same problems on my site from time to time, everybody does. No biggie. Your site has a number of incomplete sentences as well as some run-ons; combined with the grammer issues and spelling errors, it suffers greatly. These are small things, but fixing them will make your site look much, much better.

Quit using yellow text. It's hard to read and annoying. I didn't even bother reading the sections that had yellow text, and I don't think many others will, either. Choose an overall text and color scheme and stick with it. If you want a dark background, find a nice non-repeating tile and use it as a background. Straight black is harder to read than a background with some variation.

Good organizational layout and easy navigation. You might want to consider a nav bar on the left side.

Nice name logo, but I looked at it more than I did the text. This is not good. Shrink it. Also, put a mailto: link on it and some alt text about contacting you. There isn't any way for people to give you feedback.

The character writups looked interesting (what wasn't in yellow, anyway). If you have Poser, spend some time making character models for the PCs - they add a lot, trust me.

You need to use your tags. Otherwise, you'll never get any search engines to pick you up. Add "A D&D 3e Campaign" or some such to your title - it'll also help the search engines. You need a links page and some reciprocal links. After you get to the point where you are ready to face the world, drop Eric Noah a line and make an announcement that your site is open. Enter the RPG Topsites voting - it will almost guarentee you'll get picked up by the search engines.

I look forward to seeing how your site develops.! You might want to join a webcrafting group or mailing list - they are fantastic resources!

Bryan
Just to be fair, here is my URL: www.beasthold.org

System stats:

PIII 550, 256 Mb RAM
Oxygen VX1 3D graphics card w/ 32 Mb RAM
DSL
32-bit, 1024x768 IE 5.5

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5223 by zarndelius

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Message 5225 of 6768 Reply

Re: Half Dragons krovar1972
4/26/01 8:58 am
Thankyou for your reply. Though I think what I was getting at was if a Dragon transformed into a humanoid, and then failed his percentile roll to change back he would be stuck in chosen humanoid form for awhile. That may be a solid case for there being halfdragons about.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5209 by vonromig

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Message 5226 of 6768 Reply

Re: krovar1972
4/26/01 9:08 am
Actually I liked the family idea myself.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5204 by lfnotter

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Message 5227 of 6768 Reply

Re: Half Dragons Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/26/01 9:16 am
I think that is a solid case for half-dragons, but only one of many. Since some dragons can achieve human form, many may have an attraction to that form and may simply enjoy human sexuality.


Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5225 by krovar1972

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Message 5228 of 6768 Reply

Re: Spell Tar krovar1972
4/26/01 9:23 am
Sounds like a great little magic item. I may use it in my campaign. Though I will increase the cost of production. Thankyou!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5212 by lordneodig

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Message 5229 of 6768 Reply

Re: Spell Tar pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/26/01 11:03 am
I guess the interesting thing about Spell Tar would be you could prepare two or three spells in advanced and wham, have them go off simultaniously. Also, would be fun to wedge the Tar bar under a door, when a baddy in the dungeon opened it you could be a few rooms away from the fireball (or whatever) spell you left there.

What happens if you drop it?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5228 by krovar1972

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Message 5230 of 6768 Reply

Dire Elf's Dire-Weapon madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/26/01 1:41 pm
Heya.

In my 3e campaign, I have introduced a Sasquatch-like Dire Elf; animalistic, fiercesome and elusive. Many believe it is a myth, though one "quack" of a trapper has dedicated his life to capturing the beast.

Basically it's a magically-altered Elf: grown into a lumbering, eight foot-tall beastman.

I'm working out the stats now.

However, writer's block is preventing me from designing a brutal and exotic weapon for it to wield. I don't want to simply equip it with something as common as a great club nor with something as sophisticated as a dire flail. Crude and punishing yet innovative (if in a ferral way).

Any ideas? I'm thinking of a giant-sized barbed spear or something.


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Message 5231 of 6768 Reply

Hello all. phinneas_phogg
(242/M/Teratrin) 4/26/01 2:05 pm
Here's me, been gaming for almost 18 years and DM for 15 of that. Developed three whole worlds with religions and ecosystems, a score or two of new races bounced from familiar themes and had tons of fun. What all happens here? Advice, trading of ideas. How to make a player ROLE PLAY? How to stifle rules lawyers?

My favorite quote after all these years is still
... "cuz I'm the DM and I said so."


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Message 5232 of 6768 Reply

Re: Dire Elf's Dire-Weapon lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/26/01 2:14 pm
How about a maca? It's a Central American weapon, basicly a wooden sword with razor-sharp obsidian blades set into the edge.

A ball-headed war club could also be nice. A curved wooded handle that has a stone ball set in the end. Very popular among the Algonquin tribes. For a giant, it would be about the size of a bowling ball.

Deadfalls, pits, tiger traps, and punji sticks are also good.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5230 by madteuton

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Message 5233 of 6768 Reply

Re: Hello all. madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/26/01 2:14 pm
Welcome.

Yes, all those things. We gather here to better of DMly prowess and pool our creativity.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5231 by phinneas_phogg

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Message 5234 of 6768 Reply

Re: Dire Elf's Dire-Weapon madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/26/01 2:31 pm
I believe the ball-headed war club was the tom-tom or tomahawk (which were not actually axes).

I like that idea and I think that's what my dire elf will wield.

Any ideas as far as damage, threat range, crit. multiplier, etc?

Thanks!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5232 by lfnotter

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Message 5235 of 6768 Reply

Re: Spell Tar lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 4/26/01 2:38 pm
The original reason that we came up with this was under the old rules Silence 15' readius had to be cast on an object, so we would cast it on a stone, throw it at enemy spell casters, and then the baddies, would just move out of radius.

With spell tar, you just cast it on the tar, whip it at the enemy spell caster, and boom it sticks to their clothes or armor and they can't get it off.

As far as dropping it, I had one group of adventures that cast darkness, silence, and fireball on three balls of tar, and then fly on themselves, and dropped them on groups of bad guys.

I didn't want to give examples of use, since when I don't somebody almost always figures out how to use it in a way that I never would have thought of.

I've got some more magical items that I am converting to 3e, as I do it I will post 'em, if no one minds.

Joe

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5221 by DiscordianStooge

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Message 5236 of 6769 Reply

Re: Spell Tar pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/26/01 2:48 pm
"Post them if no one minds?"

Please, this is the reason I read this forum. Finding out things others have created (rather than bought through a module) is the reason this Guild exists, no? Sharing what we have created is the best part of this kind of forum.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5235 by lordneodig

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Message 5237 of 6769 Reply

Books SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 4/26/01 3:07 pm
But I will second Von Roming; I just bought and read the thing in preparation for playing a Vodacce character in 7th Sea.

I've also gotten ahold of a copy of Mao Tse-tung's "Art of Guerilla Warfare." I haven't read it yet, but those orcs in the hills may never be the same again...

Also recommended is any miliary manual. I'm a fan of medieval write Christine de Pisan, so I got a copy of her "Deeds of Arms and of Chivalry" which is mostly a "reprint" of some Roman miliary manuals. How to attack a force bigger than yours, how to retreat, how to foil a retreat, what a castle needs for a seige, how to train young kids to be warriors... nifty stuff.

There are a few well-known Japanese books which are worth reading as a GM, too. "A Book of Five Rings" is short but enlightening. I haven't read "The Art of War," but I'm told I should.

Anyone else have a non-gaming, non-fiction book they've found immensely useful?


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Message 5238 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dire Elf's Dire-Weapon lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/26/01 3:53 pm
Ah, no.

Tomahawks are light war hatchets, originally made from shoulder bone blades or flaked stone.

The gunstock war club is similar, but much larger. The ball-headed war club is totally different.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5234 by madteuton

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Message 5239 of 6769 Reply

Re: Books lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/26/01 4:10 pm
'The Art of War' is a must read.

Lets see, what have I used for ideas and what not recently?

"Practical Metallurgy" - Just what level of technology is required to smelt platinum? The answer is a little surprising. Here's a hint: Titanium is easier to obtain.

"America B.C." Records of pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact.

"The Coming Plague" - a must for anyone considering inflicting pestilance on the land.

"Red Earth, White Lies" - has an interesting section on verbal histories of interactions between humans and both smilodon and mammoths.

"Malleus Malaficiarum" - just the thing for setting up an order of self-rightous, hate-filled do-gooders.

That's all I can think of right off the top of my head.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5237 by SCA_Bard

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Message 5240 of 6769 Reply

Re: Half Dragons vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/26/01 4:35 pm
And I am also sorry for not making it clear that, yes, there would be good reasons and very likely to have quite a few of them around.

1) Their lifespans would mean that even if only one every twenty years blew his percentage roll, in a thousand years you would have 50. That seems like a good population size for any human region.

2) Unless they're disliked by their full dragon brethren (which I doubt), the Halfdragons would have quite a power base to help hide and care for them. Thus fewer would be lost over time.

3) In a world were the dragon population is even higher than the norm...This being a noted Dragon resource kit you would assume so, the numbers would be even higher if dragon-kind was actively invovled with human society. More reasons for changing into human form.

And thus my idea for a non-threatening organizations to cover the Halfdragon populace.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5225 by krovar1972

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Message 5241 of 6769 Reply

Re: Spell Tar vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/26/01 4:55 pm
Cool spell.

Now if, in its creation, one used an additional spell like Permanency to hold the spell indefinitely, until the broken membrane released it. Viola, spell gernade! Perfect for those medium level magic-users stomping around target rich enviroments...

"I've got some more magical items I am converting to 3e, as I do it I will post 'em, if no one minds."

"...no one minds? Minds! Heck that is what we are were for...bring 'em on.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5235 by lordneodig

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Message 5242 of 6769 Reply

Re: Brotherhood & Website thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/26/01 6:01 pm
Hold on guy‘s n’ gals,
Before abandoning the idea of a name change consider my suggestion:
Confederated Collaborative Coalition of Autonomous Conceptualizers and Creative Consulting Consortium. Or: CCCACCC It just flows off the tongue eh? And it‘s non-gender specific!!! Well... If you don’t look too hard at the abbreviation.


T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5208 by vonromig

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Message 5243 of 6769 Reply

Campaign Creation 1- Introduction vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/26/01 6:06 pm
This series is to help in creating a Campaign.

By no means do I give any indication that this is the only or best way to do so, it is just my way. I relate this to you all for your consideration, get what ideas and help from it that you wish.

This series will be displayed in a quicker time frame then the one I did on World Building as there is so much more I wish to bring forth. All comments and additions to, or revision of is welcomed and encouraged.

Definitions for this series...
Campaign; A long, complex storyline created by the Dungeon Master, involving many connecting adventures that move the plot forward. In most cases the knowledge of its goal is not known to the Player's Characters, this they slowly learn as they solve each puzzle in turn.

Adventure; An extented Action, where the location and goals are set by the Player's Characters. Examples...Searching the abandoned temple for an ancient scroll. Finding who is poisoning the northern wheat shipments. Or Destroying the Orb of Exijhur that LaDeux Kaas keeps in the Tower.

Puzzle; A piece of information unknown to the Player's Characters until solved or discovered by them...through research, accidently (but knowing it's significants), or piecing together a series of related clues. Examples...Learning that the ancient scroll was hidden in an abandoned temple by Razibor. Realizing that it is the northern wheat shipments that is causing the villagers deaths. The mage Kaas controls his skeleton army with the Orb of Exijhur and it now rests in the tower.
(Solving a Puzzle usually leads to the PCs starting an adventure.)

The Goal; The creating person, group, or action that started, precipitates, and/or perpetuates the events that has involved the Player's Characters. And it's destruction, correction, or neutralization ceases the Dungeon Master's storyline continuation.(Ends Game)

The Plot; The predetermined series of events created by the Dungeon Master, with most all of the people, places, and things set. Although, subjected to change by the actions of the Player's Characters and reactions of notable Non-playing Characters.

Next...Types and Styles.
Von Romig


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Message 5244 of 6769 Reply

Re: Spell Tar trombone4hire
(18/M/Puyallup, WA) 4/26/01 7:00 pm
I really like the idea. I'll have to use it in one of my games. Thanks!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5212 by lordneodig

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Message 5245 of 6769 Reply

Re: The Prince trombone4hire
(18/M/Puyallup, WA) 4/26/01 7:02 pm
It's a great book. I read it in an afternoon one day because I was bored, and it was a fascinating read (especially since I am interested in government and RPGs). I reccommend it!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5215 by vonromig

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Message 5246 of 6769 Reply

Re: Books trombone4hire
(18/M/Puyallup, WA) 4/26/01 7:23 pm
It may sound a little strange, but anything about comparative world governments/politics will teach you a lot about how governments are set up, why they end up the way they do, and how they interact. The one I'm reading for school is called "Countries and Concepts: An Introduction to Comparative Politics". We're not reading the whole book for class, but I'm going to buy it and read everything in it. It's an easy read, but it shows how many of our world's governments are the way they are.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5237 by SCA_Bard

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Message 5247 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/26/01 7:29 pm
I thank you for taking the time to clarify your position.

I would agree with you that most are not qualified to Act Female. But I also maintain that it is an issue of expierience, practice, and training / rehersing.

There have been many actors who have acted the part of a female role. Their qualifications probably outweigh many of those of many male DM's (myself included), but their may be something to be gained, by following the training of their profession, their style, their technique, etc.

You may also be close to the mark, when you advise us not to try to act female.

I think a trap us make DM's fall into is to put too much emphasis on acting female, and not enough emphasis on acting the character.

In this regard, a femlae, or an elf or a whetever is no different than playing a male human. The characterization must be well thought out, goals, dreams, aspirations, etc.

As for elves, the handbooks list a bunch of typical traits. Stereotypes if you will. They are a good starting point. They quickly become old, and trite. I like to throw in twists every chance I get, so playing with these stereotypes is no exception.

How would your PC's react to an Elf, that acted like a typical Dwarf?

I am amused as you are about your network issue for a female gamer issue arriseing in the timing it did.

I find the area in which I live, polluted with male players who think the only reason a woman would play is to hit on the guys. unfortunately this leaves a very low percentage of female players in the groups I have been.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5186 by lfnotter

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Message 5248 of 6769 Reply

Re: Spell Tar mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/26/01 7:50 pm
Can we be really evil and turn this int a Hell Tar, by placing a fireball on the spell?

Burning tar stuck to yuor enemies, it's gooey fun!!!

For extra evelness, cast the grease spell on a first one and hurl it, then the fireball one.

"Hot fried mages, get your crispy hot fried mages here!"

LOLROF

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5212 by lordneodig

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Message 5249 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dire Elf's Dire-Weapon mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/26/01 8:09 pm
I reciently enhances soem weapons for my players with a "native American" kind of feel to it.

The weapons were crude and rough throwing axes. The double geadded one had a red background and a shetch of a bear on one side, and the bear's face on the other.

It had bear claws sticking out th top of the weapon.

the other was a single headded bkack axe head with a red image of a bull on it. On the reverse side of the axe head was 2 bull horns stiching straight out opposite the axe head.

To further enhance this Native American feel to the weapons, the wood of the handle is decorated with beads, straps of leather, crude drawings of nature type things, rain drops, a leaf etc, feathers etc.

The true magic of these weapons is the spirit of the animals form which they were made still inhabits these weapons and enchants them.

I have not fully fleshed out this part, but am toying with the idea of some thing minor, like the roar of the beast is heard when a 20 is rolled, up to a major feat like the spirit of the beast can be called upon to fight for a short wile.

it would still be a spirit, so it would look spectral, and translucent.

Hope this helps

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5230 by madteuton

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Message 5250 of 6769 Reply

Re: Spell Tar mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/26/01 8:22 pm
Instant barricade, cast create food and water on it, then wamo, a whole lotta pie in the eye...

LOL FOC ROF SMS

"I kill me!" LOL ...

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5248 by mattbcieri

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Message 5251 of 6769 Reply

Re: Spell Tar mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/26/01 8:44 pm
Cast wall of stone, then you can really get the drop on somebody :)

Cast stinking cloud.

cast prismatic sphere, and make a near miss (and have them suffer the effects of passing through all the layers ...

Mass teleport? Send a bunch of baddies to some evil place.

The most evil thing about this, is that you can cast fire trap on the mebrane, if it is opened with out uttering the command word boom.

I had a mage who used this trick on errs, called them hen-grenades.

Cast pass wall and throw it at their feet, let gravity take over.

Transmute rock to mud, hit the wall behind them ...

Gust of wind, for a really evil woppie cushion! ;)

cast monster summoning and leave it in a dungeon ...

Be really evil cast fools gold on it and theow it in a pile of copper. After whomever spends the required time cleaning the gold out of the tay, he will be stuck with only copper!

Cast anti magic shell on it, stuck to a mage this could be reall bad.

For the reall elusicetrick shot, cast reverse gravity, hit your opponent, when they skam into the roof they can get stuck to it by all the tar, if they hit facing the right way.

Imagine explaining a scene to your players with a bunch of skeletons ganging from the ceiling by their clothes?

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5250 by mattbcieri

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Message 5252 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/26/01 10:16 pm
I see no limit whatsoever to the wish spell other than the fact that the more complicated or grandiose the wish is, the more potential there is for a loophole to be found and exploited by the DM. An example of how my players try to close the loopholes would be as follows. "I wish that a portal 3' wide, 7 feet tall, allowing multiple creatures to transport safely from this plane to the outer plane of Gladsheim would open immediately before me, lasting as long as the power of this spell will allow, at a distance of 10 feet, while disallowing any use by creatures of neutral or evil alignment who instead will remain behind becoming visibly outlined in a glowing teal light, more blue than green."

If you want to turn the whole world into a fudge sunday in my game, you better have about a 50 page wording that covers every possible contingency. I never allow the use of the word "And" or loss of continuity at any point. Neither will I allow listing or endless commas. I give players the chance to aim at the sky but no one has ever gotten the better of me in regard to a wish spell. At least not so far.

If anyone is interested, you might like to post some wish spells that we could pick apart to share thoughts on wish adjudication....

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5164 by vahjra

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Message 5253 of 6769 Reply

Re: Alternate Experience Systems wixlar_xeoric
(34/M/Thornton, Co) 4/27/01 8:43 am
When do you guys give negative experience points?

Maybe if you cut one of your own people?

Maybe if you die?



Wixlar Xeoric (Abjurer)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5184 by rubbercocktail

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Message 5254 of 6769 Reply

My Website Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/27/01 9:07 am
Hey!!! I have a website (I'm sure you are all astounded) which I'd like some opinions and/or help on. Basically, it details my campaign world which (when 100% complete) will be huge. New races, classes, the works. If you have a spare second could you check it out, send an opinion to Inches_72@yahoo.com or sign the guestbook. If by any chance you've got plenty of ideas or some skill in HTML and you feel like offering services, I am in need of help (two people currently helping). I fully intend for the site to become a trove of cool D&D info.
Lord Raven (Inches_72)
Oh yeah, you might need a URL. :)
www.angelfire.com/geek/knownworld


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Message 5255 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/27/01 10:56 am
>>If anyone is interested, you might like to post some wish spells that we could pick apart to share thoughts on wish adjudication....>>

Great idea. Who's first?

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5252 by thrandorian

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Message 5256 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dire Elf's dire weapon Scott_Gigot
(25/M/De Pere, WI) 4/27/01 10:58 am
How about a giant bone club, possibly with some spikes (antlers?) A big leg bone from some magical beast would be appropriate, I'd think. Or it could wield a skull-headed mace of some kind... To expand on someone else's idea, it's possible that the dire elf would have to slay some fearsome beast as a coming-of-age ritual, and from that it would pick the bone/skull for its weapon. Once (or whatever) per day, it could wield the power (strength or unusual ability) of that creature.

Say the elf gets lucky and manages to slay a basilisk, and fashions her club out of a gnarled, black wooden handle topped with the basilisk's skull...it's big, nasty, and once per day can petrify its target on a natural 20.

Or maybe that elf ambushes and kills a giant...that's a big, heavy thigh bone, and it comes with a hefty strength bonus.

I can easily see these dire elves with some truly terrifying power...and imbuing their ritual weapons would be a sweet way to do it.

Scott


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Message 5257 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 4/27/01 12:08 pm
If anyone is interested, you might like to post some wish spells that we could pick apart to share thoughts on wish adjudication....


OK Here is the wish in my campaign.

I wish for me (insert full name here) and the other members of my party (insert all their names here) to know the identity of the person or persons resonsible for the murders of the following priests of Garl Glittergold (and insert an insanely long list of all the priests who have died in these massacres.)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5252 by thrandorian

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Message 5258 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes Soviet2001
(18/M/Cincinnati, OH) 4/27/01 1:12 pm
"If anyone is interested, you might like to post some wish spells that we
could pick apart to share thoughts on wish adjudication" --

"I wish that, without any unforseen or undesired effects upon my person, possessions, my compatriots,the space-time continuum, the planar balance, and the world and universe in general, the great red dragon would die in... pi seconds."

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5255 by Umbratikus

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Message 5259 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/27/01 1:57 pm
<>

*Responsible* for the murders? I imagine an especially scrupulous DM could interpret this creatively ...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5257 by vahjra

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Message 5260 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/27/01 1:59 pm
<<"I wish that, without any unforseen or undesired effects upon my person, possessions, my compatriots,the space-time continuum, the planar balance, and the world and universe in general, the great red dragon would die in... pi seconds.">>

"The" red dragon? Which one? DMs love to be pricks with wish spells (c'mon, y'know we do!). I would cite the dragon's proper name to err on the side of caution with this one.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5258 by Soviet2001

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Message 5261 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/27/01 2:24 pm
Well, I'd say death is a forseeable consequence, and the spell doesn't specify for who the consequences are undesired. Now, you could rule that the spell works and the dragon dies.

It is forseeable that the dragon has draconic rivals who will want his or her hoard. From their perspective, this is a desirable outcome.

How about the dragons friends? Revenge is a forseeable and desirable outcome - for them.

Even if you give the wisher exactly what they wanted, who is to say that the dragon was not keeping a pact with a demon lord by providing sacrificial victims, as part of an ancient compact between the demon lord and the dragons of your world?

Pact broken, demon lord invades & causes ten times as much evil as the dragon was causing. That way, the players learn the consequences of selfish, short-sighted wishes!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5258 by Soviet2001

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Message 5262 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes Scott_Gigot
(25/M/De Pere, WI) 4/27/01 3:00 pm
The intent of this wish is reasonable...who wanted these priests dead, because we're gonna bust some frickin' skulls.

The two big loopholes could be:
1) the use of "person or persons"...what if it's non-humans or even non-beings (a rockslide?) that did it?
2) "responsible" for the death, as in who ordered it? Or who actually caused the death? Most likely the party is looking for the identity of Don Corleorc, who sent his hench-goblins Vinny and Guido to whack the priests.

One very well-phrased part, in my mind, is use of the word "identity" (rather than name--what if the offender was nameless?)

This isn't TOO bad a wish, but I can definitely see giving the party the names of the killers, rather than their boss (which probably would make the adventure much less of a mystery). This doesn't totally screw the party, but doesn't hand them the whole secret.

One other reason to not beat this one up too bad is that they could probably get the same info from certain divination spells.

Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5257 by vahjra

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Message 5263 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes Scott_Gigot
(25/M/De Pere, WI) 4/27/01 3:16 pm

"I wish that, without any unforseen or undesired effects upon my person, possessions, my compatriots,the space-time continuum, the planar
balance, and the world and universe in general, the great red dragon would die in... pi
seconds."


Boy, it's tough to say whether or not the death of a red dragon has an undesired effect upon the planar balance, the world, OR the universe in general, isn't it? Sort of depends on whose point of view the "undesired" is, doesn't it?

The part about undesired effects on me (etc) is good, but not terribly specific.

Also, aren't there rules (or are they just suggestions) about making things just die with a wish? Or am I confusing real life (I mean D :-) with a book (the _Belgariad_ comes to mind, now that I think about it).

How about one off the top of my head:
"I wish there to exist, beginning immediately, a permanent, structurally sound 10' high by 10' wide tunnel through this mountain from the spot where I, Thed Adre, stand, following equidistant from the center of the planet in the direction in which I face."

I can already see the unpleasant possibilities of running into underground water or worse, magma. Or going through a hive of irritable illithid.

Hopefully the "through" and "equidistant" parts would ensure that the tunnel pops up on the other side (or at least in a valley of some kind).

Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5258 by Soviet2001

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Message 5264 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/27/01 4:22 pm
Hi Vahjra,

this is a hugely, multi-part question including the word "and" which I won't allow. I would have to assume the answer is also multi-part and that several identities are involved? If so I would read them fast and only once, although I always try to remember that 3 years of life have been burned away in the casting.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5257 by vahjra

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Message 5265 of 6769 Reply

Re: Alternate Experience Systems vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/27/01 4:33 pm
Actually the concept of giving negative experience points goes against the definition of experience, IMO. Because, even a 'negative' experience teaches...touch red glowing metal rod and get burnt- Don't touch red glowing rods!

"Maybe if you cut one of your own people?"

To be somewhat picky here, that could even give the PC some points...He will learn not to swing his sword in that manner again when so close to a compatriot. A learning experience.

"Maybe if you die?"

I will assume that you mean that the dead person is later resurrected, would he then lose experience points? IMO, no, unless the spell or prayer is off key and the PC is not ALL THEIR. There is also the chance for such an action to have the PC gain experience from his death. It depends on your concept of the after life. If the PC is running around Heaven or Hell before being returned then that is an unique experience...(also an eye-opener to the PC as to the 'reality' of what's beyond. He may become a devout follower of his chosen deity after seeing it for the truth! Think, if you died and went to heaven, then when you came back would you not believe in its existence?)

The only real way that I would take away experience points is in the event of spells, potions, and such that alter the PC's memory...Forget, Enfeeblement, an appropriate Curse, etc. And then only for its duration, unless permentent.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5253 by wixlar_xeoric

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Message 5266 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/27/01 4:39 pm
Hi Soviet,

You wrote: "I wish that, without any unforseen or undesired effects upon my person, possessions, my compatriots,the space-time continuum, the planar balance, and the world and universe in general, the great red dragon would die in... pi seconds."

1) I don't allow the use of "and"
2) is there only 1 great red dragon in all the multi-verse?
3) If i really want to be a prick and this was verbal not written I say "the red dragon does dye. He dyes his undies red. And in "Pi" (?) seconds he will be doing it!"

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5258 by Soviet2001

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Message 5267 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/27/01 4:54 pm
Scott wrote: "where I, Thed Adre, stand,
following equidistant from the center of the planet in the direction in which I face." I am not sure about the meaning of "following" in this case. Maybe use extending?
otherwise it's fine. I agree with rolling for potential pitfalls with regard to magma, etc., although that might also be the purpose in mind and as such destroy the enemy fortress or such.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5263 by Scott_Gigot

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Message 5268 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/27/01 5:05 pm
"I wish for me (insert full name here) and the other members of my party (insert all their names here) to know the identity of the person or persons responsible for the murders of the following priests of Garl Glittergold (and insert an insanely long list of all the priests who have died in these massacres)."

Questions...
Why does everyone in the party have to know? Don't they trust the person getting the wish to tell them the truth?

Responcible? Some religions believe that their Diety is responcible for all things. So I have similar problems as the other members to this word being used.

Just some of the things I wished to add...
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5257 by vahjra

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Message 5269 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/27/01 5:18 pm
"I wish that, without any unforseen or undesired effects..."

It is interesting that one would choose to try and prevent any loopholes by trying to cover all the bases... Why not just be very specific.

'I wish that the dragon (name, if known) charging towards me was to die from a heart attack, now!'

"...the great red dragon would die in...pi seconds."

It would be funny if the spell had a temporal glich trying to solve Pi to its end.

Just a thought...
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5258 by Soviet2001

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Message 5270 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes gedvondur
(30/M/Green Bay, WI) 4/27/01 10:15 pm
Hmm...this is an interesting thread....

I tend to handle wish spells in the most simple manner possible. I have told my players that if they use wishes for simple selfish reasons, I will screw them, and I don't care if they get Johnny Cochrane to write it for them.

If they use that kind of power for good purposes, either the greater good or in an unselfish way, I will not even make them bother with elaborate phrasing.

The reason I make the above "screwing" threat is that I play with some extremely intelligent folks. If they all put their heads together, they will come up with a pretty good wish. I am not particularly interested in this kind of pissing match, and this kind of threat makes them think twice before using wishes selfishly.

I got that idea from pvandyck, one of our other DMs, and how he handled us in this situation.

As far as the dragon wish......hmmmmm....Howabout offending the dragon gods, and a suitable curse....


Gedvondur
DM--Legion of the Red Paw

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5269 by vonromig

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Message 5271 of 6769 Reply

Adventure Ideas: vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/28/01 12:40 am
Here are some ideas for minor adventures within a Campaign. Hope you enjoy.

(They were going to be Beginnings, but without letting you have an idea as to what they could lead to I changed the subject to Adventure Ideas. Another topic that can be continued by anyone who wishes to share)

1) The Dragonslayer Movie, with a twist...
The PCs noticed an unusual scene as they enter a large, border town...a sizable crowd of townsfolk are gathered at a clearing on the town's edge. Most of them are crying, others are swearing at the forest line. All the while, a charred wagon is being pulled from the woods to town. When PCs investigates they learn the following: a- A black dragon lives nearby. b- To save the whole town the brave merchant, Wykerok, made a deal with it...one female sacrifice every six months. c- They are now pulling back the wagon that had the latest victim strapped to it, she gone of course, eaten by the dragon. d- If PCs go to find this dragon they can't...townsfolk say many have tried but the lair is to well hidden.

The Story...The merchant Wykerok is in cohoots with an Illusionist and a band of slavers. They have set up this con with several villages and towns around these parts. As he makes his semi-annual supply runs he gathers up the new stock of 'slaves' to take back. The idea of a black dragon in the area also keeps people from travelling, thus outside word comes only from the men 'brave' enough to bring needed supplies, Wykerok and his caravan (of slavers).

2) Alien Movie, with a twist...
Half way through a sea voyage a gruesome murder takes place onboard. In the ship's hold, the body of a passenger, Stuerm Vieso, is found. Shreaded and partially eaten (?). Soon, more bodies are found or gone missing as the voyage continues. No sounds of their cruel fate was heard and no sight of any killer ever seen. The crew and passagers become mutinous...threats, accusations, fights.

The Story...Mr. Vieso was a specialized smuggler, trying to transport an Aurumvorax (MM-II, pg 11) secretly. Around the beast's neck is a collar that holds a Gem of Raelon (improved invisibilty) and the Amulet of the Void (silence, 15'). He does this for high paying mages and others in need of guarding creatures. He was killed trying to feed it, and it has escaped!

Von Romig


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Message 5272 of 6769 Reply

The Evil Campaign warframe
(33/M/Northwest Las Vegas) 4/28/01 12:49 am
Well after 18+ years of role-playing I've decided to try a campaign type that I've never done before...

The Evil Campaign.
That's right, the players are the bad guys. Problem? Seems limited in adventure types, players could become obnoxious in their villany,etc., etc.,etc.

I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter especially if you've done this before.

Thanx!


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Message 5273 of 6769 Reply

Campaign Creation 2- Types vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/28/01 1:26 am
First one must decide what type and style he wishes to run his campaign under. This is not only determined by the DM's likes and such, but also by what the players seem to enjoy.

Types:

The City Campaign: In this, most all action takes place inside the limits of a single city. It can lead to the more complicated games as their are many more factors. More NPCs, more seperate and unique locations, and access to more puzzle possiblities. Can be very political in nature. Less hack-n-slash (laws), more mental (a multitude of personalities with their own agendas). My favorite.

The Wilderness Campaign: This is the outdoor travelling genre. Going from ancient temples to elven tribes to monster lairs to hunted forests with the occational brief stops at villages and cities for info and supplies. Good for the many 'stumble-upon' minor adventures. Can be very xenophilic oriented. More hack-n-slash (wandering creatures, bandits, and such as well as the many adventuers) and less mental (set goals, info needed mostly to find next place to look). Includes sea travel, pirateering, etc.

The 'Offworld' Campaign: This is where the party moves through the different planes, dimensions, times, or gaming worlds. Not real good own its own, needs vast periods in one or both of the first two types. Without notes could be confusing to PCs ( 'Is this the world Bedo is the bartender or was that...') Can be any combination of hack-n-slash and mental.

The Combo Campaign: Probably the most widely used. It keeps the party somewhat more evenly in cities and wondering the wilderness. Gets the best of the first two types, with maybe the third thrown in once in a blue moon. Equal shares of hack-n-slash and mental.

Von Romig


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Message 5274 of 6769 Reply

Campaign Creation 2a- Styles vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/28/01 2:11 am
Now comes a harder choice. As this will more define the layout of the campaign and could narrow possiblities (unless one goes off track).

The Styles...

The Rescuers: One of the most over used beginner DM styles (IMO). The Party's 'job' is to save someone who has been kidnapped, enslaved, or being chased. Helping the local village from an evil group of bandits, horde of bloodthirsty Orcs, or some fierce monster. A good minor adventure style, but for real inventiveness I would avoid it for a Campaign.

The Collectors: Another big one for beginners. The object of this one is for the PCs to 'collect' some multifaceted group of items. Like the Armor of Sedwick (Helm, shield, breastplate, etc) or magical items that when combined will do something truely amazing.

The Questors: Anytime that the party is singled out to perform some special assignment or series of difficult tasks they are on a quest. The person or group sending them is often referred to as the boss, or whatever nomenclature they wish to use.

The Vendetta: When the party has taken it upon themselves to seek revenge for some evil deed or vice. Regardless of it being against them, a friend or family member, or country and home. The main thing is that the characters take it very personally.

The Polictical: This is when one or more of the party is of noble birth, a leader of men or an organization, or inspiring to be one. And their goals include getting, obtaining more, or regaining power. Very mental, the book 'The Prince' should be the bible.

The Evil Ones: The party is made up of evil characters. Easiest for DM to set up...just come up with a big good-guy or group and let the party go. Their imaginations will always run away from them, and any storyline will be blown out quickly. Trust me on this.

The Wanderers: A no set goals or guildline romp through your world. The players make up their own choices as to what they wish to accomplish. The DM wings it as they play. Going from one adventure to the next. With no End Game the players continue until they or the DM wishes or their characters die. ('Suddenly, you're surrounded by five pissed off green dragons!)

NOTE; The best Campaign incorporates more than one style within its framework.

If any members can think of any Campaign Styles that don't fit any of these please list them...
Von Romig


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Message 5275 of 6769 Reply

Re: The Evil Campaign vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/28/01 2:57 am
I have a feeling that most of the other members would agree with me when I say that DMing a group of Evil PCs can lead to the most fun. The player's imagination will actually make is easier on you...they will eventually lead themselves. All you need do is hold on for the ride.

"Seems limited in adventure types..."

Actually, it is the same really. Just take any adventure you can create for a 'normal' good party and reverse it...What was the party's enemy in those are now the PCs themselves.

"...player's could become obnoxious in their villany..."

Obnoxious villians? Is there any other kind? My advice is to let them go as far as they wish, just keep in mind and let them know that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Because just like when they played the good guys and sought out the baddies, so would the same happen to them, now that they are the baddies.

For other comments previous discussed read messages #5077 by Lazarus1020, #5085 by me, and #5099 by Inches 72. (There might be more further back) Also, for giving your players a better feel for their new evil selves try looking into their motivations...we resently debated this topic, Villain Motivations, starting in post #5086.

Hope this helps, and I'm pretty sure others will give their two cents.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5272 by warframe

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Message 5276 of 6769 Reply

Re: The Evil Campaign sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 4/28/01 3:59 am
I have recently started an evil campaign with my players as well - the current campaign was getting old so the group is taking a timeout to wreak some destruction. However, when running evil characters then you really can throw ANYTHING at them because they have such a free rein of ideas. As mine is short-term then I have started them off at 10th level so that they can start straight away. I wouldn't recommend it for a long-term campaign as they always end up either so powerful that you have to call in Elminster, Drizzt Do'Urden and Cadderley to stop them or they get themselves killed quick trying to do something stupid.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5272 by warframe

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Message 5277 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/28/01 4:12 am
So Ged two questions,
1) You prefer that when a magic user spends 3 years of his/her life that they not be selfish?

2) How can motivation effect the outcome of a wish?

Just curious about your reasoning.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5270 by gedvondur

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Message 5278 of 6769 Reply

Re: The Evil Campaign thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/28/01 4:17 am
The only issue I have with a pure evil run is the potential for finding out just how scary my friends really are....

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5275 by vonromig

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Message 5279 of 6769 Reply

Re: The Evil Campaign shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 4/28/01 6:34 am
Several years ago, a friend of mine started DM'ing an "evil" campaign for our group. The plot was centered around a prophecy that 'four horsemen' weilding four 'sceptres of power' would bring a new era of change to the world, uniting all the nations under their rule.

Our group decided that the "goody-two-shoes" who currently ruled were botching things up, and we could do a better job, and eventually we would be the ones to fulfill the prophecy. The "four horsemen" of the party were a fighter (the military brains of the bunch), a cleric (to some devil, I don't recall which), a magic-user, and a cavalier (changed alignments to LE after he was betrayed by his lord).

It was an interesting long-term campaign, as hints and rumors about the location and powers of the various sceptres came to light. After about four years of gaming, the party averaged about 12th level, had about a hundred followers (about a third of which were zombies), had two of the sceptres, and used a wish to discover that one of the remaining sceptres was being weilded by a high-level paladin .. the exact powers of the sceptres was still not known, nor was exactly how they were supposed to be used to "unite the nations of the world" (but we had fun speculating the war and destruction that we would cause once we did have all four).

It was an interesting campaign, but not as much fun, IMHO, as playing the good guys.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5278 by thrandorian

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Message 5280 of 6769 Reply

Re: Books krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/28/01 9:23 am
This is great! It would be nice if we could have a master list of books someplace that we could all add our favorite helpful for gameing non-gaming books. Whew! Is it possible to set something up like that with Barnes and Nobles and then place the link in the links sections? Or could a books section be added to the our pages list? Well here is my three little additions.
1.A Diderot Pictorial Encyclopedia of Trades and Industry (by "Denis Diderot") ISBN:0-486-27429-2
This is one of a two book series. It is full of great templates(very detailed drawings)on how crafters made most anything. It is a little more modern than medeival(circa early 18th century when first created). Yet it focuses on the crafts of industry. I've spent hours perusing these books. Event still I will open them up and get lost

2.The Traditional Building of England(Anthony Quiney) ISBN:0-500-27661-7
This book details Forestry Concepts, as lumber was a rare commodity in Englan. How the houses were put together. How the rooms were utilized, and it has lots of great diagrams of the different abodes. It can be dry reading at times. Again though this is a great resource.

3. What People Wore Over 1800 illustrations from ancient times to the early Twentieth century (by Douglas Gorsline) ISBN:0-486-28162-0

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5239 by lfnotter

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Message 5281 of 6769 Reply

Campaign drakeflower
4/28/01 9:44 am
Would an online campaign function smoothly through an e-board??? You could use pics, etc... But is it a good idea??


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Message 5282 of 6769 Reply

oh yeah... drakeflower
4/28/01 9:46 am
Also, Ive never played 1st ed, and I still havent bought 3rd ed, but what does THAC0 mean?? I thought it was To hit- armor class, something, with the lower the # the harder to hit, but... and what are the definitive differences tween 2nd and 3rd, besides 'easier to understand'??


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Message 5283 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/28/01 9:50 am
In my opinnion the difficulty of playing a female character for male PCs and DM NPCs lies in playing the female characters the way we think females should act. The way we want them to act when around us, and the way they tend to act towards us. This seems to lead to either a female sex feind, or a female male basher. Playing a female character is one way we have of exploring our owne prejadices towards the opposite sex. Unfortuantely we forget that the opposite people are exactly that. People. As people we all have desires and motivations coupled with the experience of our lives. This equals who we are, and who we will be. I may be in left feild here. Imput is welcomed.


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Message 5284 of 6769 Reply

Re: Spell Tar krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/28/01 9:56 am
Ever hear of Greak Fire. Heh heh. I'm telling you. In my campaign this Spell Tar would be a lot more expensive then 25 gp to make. It is like a magic item with one charge. If you use it once as a DM against the PCs. The PCs will become obsessed with the idea of makeing it. After all who wouldn't want to be totting around a bag of this stuff. Especially if it were coupled with Incinerary magic. Wheh! Wouldn't that be scarry. So sure you can get your spell tar, but it will cost yah. A high price would cause the PCs to use it sparingly. I'm only thinking of game balance here.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5248 by mattbcieri

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Message 5285 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/28/01 10:16 am
It is also possible that an innocent could be responsible. Imagine an Innocent Bueatiful female says in the presence of an evil suitor. "Though as much as I love you darling my religion forbids our union." Well now Evil suitor takes out revenge ont the order that has come between him and his true love. In this instance you could say that the innocent female was reponsible????

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5262 by Scott_Gigot

Message 5286 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/28/01 10:34 am
If the PCs or GM haven't already. Why not make a secret life expectancy roll. I beleive the charts are in the PHB. Once life expectancy is noted mark off the 3years. If the pc wished away their life so be it. It would add a bit more risk to the wish. No?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5277 by thrandorian

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Message 5287 of 6769 Reply

Re: oh yeah... krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/28/01 10:43 am
(what does THAC0 mean?? I thought it was To hit- armor class, something)

To hit Armour Class Zero.

This may be Spam but it is unintended. HackMaster Is Comeing next month
-----------------------
Hey peoples this is a good time to mention that Kenzer & Co has liscensed the entire D&D 1st Ed, AD&D, and AD&D 2nd edition game system. WOT C didn't want so they asked and got it. Kenzer and Co. Has created a real version of HackMaster. The Game that the Knights of the Dinner Table uses. Hackmaster 4th edition is due out next month. Go to the Hackmaster Club for more info. This is the real DND. They've fixed it up a bit, as these guys are real gamers but it sounds great.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5282 by drakeflower

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Message 5288 of 6769 Reply

DM Puzzler #3 vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/28/01 11:57 am
Since nobody else has one yet, here's another one from me...whats your thoughts.

Bill and Ted are having an excellent adventure. They are best freinds outside the game, but in it their characters are rivals within the party. Bill is playing a paladin and Ted is the thief. Each wants to lead the party in a different way to solve the resent string of events that the group has stumbled on...

Ted's character, Pyck, is being chased by a mob after blowing a theft. He runs into a five story tall Inn with a large awning hanging out front. Racing up the stairwell to the top floor closely pursued by said mob, he runs down the hall and dives out the window...expecting the awning to catch his fall. Oops, hall window faces the back courtyard of stoneporch and gardens. Ted was directionally confused after going up the stairs and turned right, instead of left, down the hall. The DM tells him this and starts to roll "falling onto stone damage, 45'". This starts conversation...

Ted: "No! Pyck turns to the left and goes out that window."

Bill: "To late! Pyck is SPLAT!"

Ted: "No. If I was really there I would have known the correct way to turn..."

Bill: "*#@& that, you would have been just as confused...you were running and being chased, very little time to think straight."

Arguement continues...
DM problem; If sides with Ted and lets Pyck jump out the correct window, he lives (?) but Bill will become mad at DM, and will inevitably use this against him later if his character, the paladin, could die.
If sides with Bill and the thief is killed (?), then any re-rolled character of Ted's will, without much doubt, be against the paladin, who now has control of the party. And their animousity will grow.

(Note; The rest of the group is evenly divided over who's side should win the debate.)

So what would you do?
Let Pyck jump out the awning-side window and save the character, thus bring problems later from Bill, and even others that will use this against you?
Let Pyck go splat and have a new character start with a hatred for another PC...that too will lead to more problems later? (Trust me, even if Ted's new character is a LG cleric they will clash, human nature).
Or some other compromise?
Von Romig


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Message 5289 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/28/01 12:08 pm
Sorry. Pavement pizza. Too bad, so sad, it
happens. Maybe the fall won't kill him, just mess him up
real bad. That's the consequences. I'd expect it to
become one of those stories they tell thier friends
about, like the time a PC in my game lost his arm to a
bear trap in an underwear drawer.

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5288 by vonromig

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Message 5290 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/28/01 12:27 pm
You have made a ruling already, otherwise pip would not know the result. If he is dead he is dead. Don't backpeddle. If pip cannot handle it then just maybe he should not be playing. This is not a popularity contest. So be a GM and stick to your guns.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5288 by vonromig

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Message 5291 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/28/01 12:39 pm
You may be on to something.

My PC's wives tend to be loyal, trusting, and somewhat mousy, as my own wife, Jennifer, is. While I regard other females as ones who need protection and any harm to them brings forth great emotions. Thus in my games I play the NPC females as 'damsel in distress' or 'helpless victim' to often. And due to my masculine bravado don't play the sex siren types (In my experience most of that is just show anyways. I was a manager at a strip club for two years and although the girls were hot on stage, off stage they were more shy and sweet...innocent-like). Only the rare evil female NPC do I seem to play as her Character class instead of her gender, but I always gave her a royally-messed up history (and this is from any stripper who was tough off stage was trying to overcome a screwed up past, abusive home, no family, raped, etc).

And the only contact with any large number of women I have had, has been while at the strip club. In the factory I work now there is mostly men and a few old women (but that's another class altogether) and my career in the Air Force was in a silo in North Dakota...

So Krovar, you may be right. My playing is due to my own experience and 'prejudices' regarding the softer sex. I hope the next time I can use the ideas and suggestions offered by all the members here to better my over-all attitude and preceptions. Thanks.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5283 by krovar1972

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Message 5292 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/28/01 1:09 pm
First, thanks to responding Krovar and Ifnotter.

Secondly, this is made up. So I have my own ideas on what could happen...but since I made the Puzzler I will wait for all responces then. Otherwise members might get the impression that what I say is suppose to be the right answer. And as we all know, there are no truely right answers only opinions...

Thirdly, the DM was STARTING to roll the damage, the outcome is still up in the air. And to play the Devil's Advocate giving off the air of 'tough sh*t Im the DM' would be ok if playing with close friends, but what if they weren't. I play with a lot of strangers...from Penn State, meeting only to play. That attitude can cause you to lose players, so one has to be diplomatic in their decisions and responces.

If your answer is that Pyke goes splat, please give your reasoning (the one you would give to the players) IF it is more than the 'I'm the DM and I say so' variety. (Imagine yourself playing with a group of strangers that could become future friends. Your Inner-Diplomat revealed.)

Also give what steps you could take to pervent Ted's newest character from causing future problems. If the thief PC was a favorite of Ted's then, Bill's 'help' in getting him killed would lead to future clashes between their PCs. Right? Human nature rules! A new character does not neccessarily and automatically mean a new attitude towards the paladin or Bill...
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5290 by krovar1972

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Message 5293 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 kwan_darkwood
(21/M) 4/28/01 1:47 pm
I would definitely rule that he is dead. The Fifth Rule of DungeonCraft states: What's done is done. However, this doesn't mean that the party cannot ressurect the character. This is very similar to a scenario in an adventure I was in last weekend:
The party was heading to these mines, and our horses had just been devoured by ankhegs. Half the party wanted to stay and build a raft to float up the river and arrive at a bridge, which was our destination. However, the DM was hinting that the river appeared to have come out of a high-walled gorge. We had spoken with a person in MistleDale who informed us that we needed to reach the Serpent's Mouth Bridge. My character is an elven thief, and I suggested that we continue walking. The others refused, and so we came to a compromise: They would stay and build a raft, while my character would walk along the river and they would reach the bridge at around the same time. This was settled, and I set off. However, one of the party members (Human Fighter), decided that a wandering elven thief might get hurt on his own and said that he would come along with me. So, the two of us trudged upstream, and eventually we came upon a grove of trees, where nearly two dozen human bodies were hanging upside down, with their entrails removed. The fighter freaked and wanted to go back, but my very curious elven thief did not. He wanted to go on, but the fighter decided that he was going to make my character go with him whether I wanted to our not. So, we got into a punching match. After awhile the DM informed us that a band of 15 orcs had surrounded us and were making bets...etc. My character tried to keep up the bout, figuring that when one combatant was knocked out the losing orcs would turn on the winners and they would eventually squabble amongst themselves. However, the player of the human fighter was new to the game and turned around to attack the orcs, discarding any ideas of subtle trickery. He killed one of them, and they turned on him, but he had a high constitution and survived their hits. My character tried to sneak away, but they noticed him and caught him. The fighter managed to break through the ranks of the orcs and he turned to run, then stopped once he realized I was still there. My character (Chaotic Good) told him to keep going, to save himself and leave the thief to his fate. But, it was of course too late. The orcs were mad that one of their number was slain and turned and attacked me. My elven thief was slain, and the fighter fled. Eventually the party raised the thief, and he held no grudges against the fighter. Of course, the fighter was later slain in a battle with stone giants and the party did NOT resurrect him, since some of them did not share my character's forgiving ways. Neither player was mad at the DM, and it worked out fine.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5288 by vonromig

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Message 5294 of 6769 Reply

Re: Campaign SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 4/28/01 2:21 pm
It depends.

A step-by-step, "Roll for damage" game is hideous over e-boards. But a more freewheeling game can work very well. I run two with which I'm very satisfied about the quality of the role-playing and the writing. Rabid Womabt Tavern has been open for business for two years; The Temple Silver has been holding services for one and a half.

My suggestions:
Keep it small and unlisted. Too many players and it gets very hard to keep track of what everyone's saying and doing, and conversations go on forever. And nothing spoils a good game faster than an annoying power "Son of ChaosLord" munchkin showing up.

Establish a general feel for the club early. Are the PCs going to be very powerful, like standard 15th level AD&D characters? Or will they be more like characters from a novel; perhaps gifted in one respect or another, but also with human failings. Is anyone in the club willing to take a sidekick role? (Sidekicks can be *fun* to play, and it can keep a game from getting bloated with too many extraordinary people). How many magic items are around, and what sort?

How involved is the GM? I tend to run mine almost like a tabletop in that I control almost all NPC actions and the plot. Other games work very well with PCs "auto"ing random NPCs and introducing plot elements on their own.

Don't "autohit" (unless your heroes are mopping up a score of random red-shirted thugs). When we have combat (which is rare), I describe what my villans do and how well they do it. The PCs decide what hits they take, and describe how they hit back at the villian. I then describe what the villan takes. It helps greatly if 1) The PCs and the GM trust each other to play fair and 2) Everyone is mature and has a sense of drama. Is it more cool to effortlessly kill the big bad guy or have an epic battle, which the hero wins only by strength of will, landing one final, mighty blow despite the pains he's suffering?

E-boards give you a lot of latitude. In one of mine, I've got the standard "adventuring party" group who have banded together on a quest campaign. The other is looser, with the PCs all living in one town, but they're not always together. They go off on their own, return, seek each other's aid, and so on. It's a bit more realistic, but it also means I have to reply separately to each of their posts - another good reason to keep things small.

I've found archiving the posts to a website to be useful, if you have the time and/or you're anal retentive like me. I want Lady Claudia's liveried servants to be wearing the same colors they were the last time I mentioned them, six months ago. Was that blue or green? In a Yahoo! Club, it's a pain to wade through all the posts; I find it easier to collect groups of posts into "chapters" and read those.

Posting pics isn't something I do often, but before our "Fight on the Docks," I made a dockside map and posted that; my verbal descriptions of the docks just weren't clear enough. Picture = 1K words and all that... Some people like to post illos of their PCs, too.

Give it a shot!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5281 by drakeflower

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Message 5295 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton) 4/28/01 2:52 pm
You are probably right about the sources of your assumptions - I spent three years as a volunteer victim advocate for a local PD, responding to sexual assaults, domestic violence calls, and other crimes, and I know that has affected my attitude when dealing with female players and PCs. Generally, I keep in mind what I've seen men do to women and then don't act that way.

I do wish you luck in the future. As I said in my first post on the subject, admitting that you have a problem is the first step in overcoming it.

For example, I have a problem in that I don't like killing characters. The players put a lot of time in on them and I don't like seeing it go to waste. So, I wind up either not challenging them enough or I create elaborite political adventures that make their heads hurt but won't get them killed. One of the reasons I joined this group is to help myself find the balance.

Bryan

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5291 by vonromig

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Message 5296 of 6769 Reply

Re: Spell Tar lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 4/28/01 5:08 pm
I agree with increasing the ocst, espcially after Iread some of the new uses that people have come up with on this list. The 25 gp came from the alchemy skill in the PHB.

In my game the other game balance came from the fact that only the priests of Isis Great Library knew how to make it, and they weren't sharing the secret. It's one of the ways they turn a profit!

Thanx fer the encouragement everybodies. I'm in Florida so it will be a coupla days for me to post anything. I will submit and artifact for peer review that I've been working on. It's a quarterstaff made for a Psychic Warrior / Slayer

Joe

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5284 by krovar1972

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Message 5297 of 6769 Reply

Re: oh yeah... DiscordianStooge
(21/M/Mankato, MN) 4/28/01 5:13 pm
Yeah, it's To Hit Armor Class 0. If THAC0 is 10, that means that a roll of 10 or better will hit something witho AC. You will hit armor class 5 on 5 or better. You will hit AC -4 on 14 or better. If you understand this explaination, you are fairly smart (at least smarter than anyone I've ever played with, since they can't grasp the concept.)
3e has a straight base 10 AC, with armor, dex, and protection magic adding to that number. To hit roll is a die 20 plus attack bonus. It is much simpler, and allows for higher armor classes and such. I think the main reason it was changed was to make it easier, but maybe there is something else I'm missing.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5282 by drakeflower

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Message 5298 of 6769 Reply

Re: wishes thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/28/01 6:44 pm
Kov,
Thats exactly my understanding of how it is supposed to be done. 3 years per use of the spell.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5286 by krovar1972

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Message 5299 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/28/01 7:25 pm
My opinion:

1)Pyck should have been allowed the same opportunity a person with visual, auditory etc. has, to make decisions.

2)Did you draw out the building? If not, was the player mislead by your description or technical method of play? If you deem so, then a mistake has occurred and I agree with the player.

3)If Pyck WAS given all the info needed to make the correct decision, then he probably should live (or die) with the outcome.

4) No resurrection possible?

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5288 by vonromig

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Message 5300 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/28/01 7:56 pm
Vons puzzle, pt 2 of the question:
My 20 cents:
If someone "carries-over" emotions from the last character to a new one, they are violating THE most important precept of intellectual role play and are not role playing at all. These people should go bowling or get a clue. I have kicked people out of my run for this in years past.
Von, you clearly provide carefully thought out campaigns. You spend countless hours of your time preparing for and executing your runs. That sort of personalized player-oriented ego-exercise would be an insult to your efforts and the game in general. A good DM like you should never have a problem finding players, (I don't) and in my opinion should give little thought to keeping players other than due to the quality, enjoy-ability and integrity of your gaming. I realize this is an hypothetical example.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5292 by vonromig

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Message 5301 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/29/01 1:16 am
Well, your right, I don't have any problems in getting very good players. Each year I set up a table at the student's lounge in the HUB at Penn State to give applications out and then make appointments for those more promising. As I need only ten players (5 each for Sat & Sun ), when I get about 30-40 players applying I have my choice. My world and Games are pretty well known by word of mouth...I only play during the summer as the winter season + college student equation doesn't work; holidays, tests, visits home, and such prevents everyone showing up each week. So each year I have a slightly different set of groups.

It has been this way for 7 years now (95-01). In Maryland I had a group of six for 3 years (92-94), in North Dakota I had one of ten for 7 years (85-91), and in Ohio I had several different groups for another 4 years (81-84). Then in Alaska I had me and the guy who started me off on AD&D for a year (78) and his brother joined for the next 2 years (79-80). I have the experience.

And the players learn quickly that I don't 'save' characters, that's their job by; not screwing up, doing something stupid, and paying attention. I have also expressed my thoughts to each of them on 'carrying-over' anything from one PC to another. It's ROLE-playing, play the part not yourself. And if your unwaving in this, you will have no problems...

Thus, I would say Pyke dies too. The info was there for his Character. As for when the player got confused then so did his Character. This was a made up scenario; but perhaps the building was unknown to the thief, the travelling in circles as he went up the five flight of stairs disoriented him, and/or in his mad rush to get away he wasn't thinking clearly. The Puzzle here was...Do you give in to the player whose character dies (saving the player's beloved character)? Give way to the player who just wants him died (killing him to stop inner party strife)? Or give in to the facts (killing him because the mistake was genuine, but unavoidable-SPLAT). For DMs its always the facts.

I love to ramble...sorry.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5300 by thrandorian

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Message 5302 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 4/29/01 6:05 am
If I (as a DM) had not given Ted enough information to make a knowledable decision, I might cut him a break .. perhaps something (or someone) is in the courtyard that might break his fall (and his leg, etc., making sure that he remembers the incident) .. maybe one or two of the guys chasing him.

If, IMHO, he had all the information he needed, or didn't ask the right questions, SPLAT.

Sometimes a little in-party strife is a good thing. Maybe the Bill's personality (or his Paladin's) needs some balance from Ted to make the game interesting, and not just "follow the leader". If they're bickering, they're discussing, and less likely to make the wrong choice because they never thought of the right one(or one or two of the players did, but were too overpowered by Bill's personality to say so).

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5301 by vonromig

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Message 5303 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 orgruff
(33/M/The lucky country) 4/29/01 9:02 am
I had some of the elements of this game very recently in a game that has broken up (regretably, and mostly because I am unavailable to DM) Players got killed when IMO they did really dumb stuff or when die rolls dictated that their number was up.
Some took it personally, some stayed away.

Small arguments in game became petty remarks out of game and in the end I'm glad that I'm unavailable to DM. Not because I don't want to play but because it sorts out a messy situation in a friendly way where nobody gets blamed for ruining the game and we can part as friends. I hope.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5302 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 5304 of 6769 Reply

Books Reviews krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/29/01 8:04 pm
I just put together a page, based on reveiws of books I've seen in your posts. Check it out. Also let me know if you don't want to be on the page. Also let me know of any strings I have not stumbled accross yet Thanks Krovar1972.....
The link is http://top.mcttelecom.com/~krovar/


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Message 5305 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 Soviet2001
(18/M/Cincinnati, OH) 4/30/01 12:59 am
I'm reminded of the time one of my player's character decided he was going to cut off a heirosphinx's head and use it as a hat... there were two other heirosphinxes around. He died. He accepted that he died, as he put it, "Of his own incompetance."

The moral of my story is this: I don't think that characters should be killed if they have a legitimate argument, such as being confused about the situation in the inn... lacking visual stimulation, as we are visual beings and if he was running upstairs *assuming he'd been there before* he would have picked up on visual clues telling him which way to go (if the player himself was running from the mob). SO I say that this s hould be a justification for not just killing the player outright, but also as a point of order that the DM isn't responsible for players' hasty decisions in the future.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5289 by lfnotter

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Message 5306 of 6769 Reply

Re: Campaign Creation 2- Types Soviet2001
(18/M/Cincinnati, OH) 4/30/01 1:06 am
I'm not exactly the most skilled DM, I've been doing it for about a year every now and again, usually stand alone games, as our campaigns seem to end... abruptly.

I've made a campaign world in the past, but like intellectual games... I mean, less playing on combat and the like, and more involved with plotlines and things, but it seems that my players do not like this sort of game. They like hack-n-slash and have absolutely no desire to role play their characters... I wouldn't mind so much if they didn't constantly bug me to make up a campaign world for them... anyway, my question is, how should I create a world that I can actually enjoy, i.e. it is very involved with many plotlines, and not lose that whole hack-n-slash stuff that the players seem to enjoy?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5273 by vonromig

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Message 5307 of 6769 Reply

The curse of the wolf lazarus1020
(22/M/Louisville,Ky) 4/30/01 1:55 am
I have this character who was bitten by a werewolf. He never bothered to find out if he was infected. He has a lot of hit points and was healed during the battle. He took over a hundred points of damage. Since the rules say 1% cumalative chance per point of damage. A new full moon has already past and he wolfed out for the first time. He awoke naked and covered in blood. The party then broke into a old dwarven strong hold and was trapped by the mutant orcs that served the Drow master of the old stronghold.
The drow captured the character who is the werewolf. The drow agree to release the character for some magical objects they had escaped with. The were wolf begged the drow to help him control the lycanthropy. The drow instead tatooed him with runes to enpower the wolf during the night but weaken the character during the day. The question is should i let the character attempt to cure his curse or just make him a bad guy? What could the cure be and what of the drow trick?


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Message 5308 of 6769 Reply

Re: The curse of the wolf tarsheeva
(32/F) 4/30/01 2:15 am
Most of the time when that happened to a PC in our group. The player lost the character since it became a NPC.
I don't know what campaign world you are playing, but if i'm not mistaken since i don't remember this very well, if you want to give the character a chance. Maybe a priest of Selune can help. The book faith and avatars offers more about the priests and their advantages with lycantrophy.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5307 by lazarus1020

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Message 5309 of 6769 Reply

Re: The curse of the wolf orgruff
(33/M/The lucky country) 4/30/01 2:16 am
I'd let the guy get rid of the curse eventually but I'd make him sweat a little and perhaps leave a few Drow lusting after his blood for a while, that could be fun. But don't let it become the major focus of the campaign unless you are sure the other players will be OK with that.

Of course even after the guy is cured and the Drow are dead there is still the Tattoo, He might later meet some good guys and have to fight or flee from somebody who has a grudge against bearers of that Tattoo, Also some bad guys might approach him as a comrade when seeing the tattoo and that could guarantee some great role playing OR some great hack and slash OR both.

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millenium.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5307 by lazarus1020

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Message 5310 of 6769 Reply

Re: Campaign Creation 2- Types orgruff
(33/M/The lucky country) 4/30/01 2:30 am
>>, how should I create a world that I can actually enjoy, i.e. it is very involved with many plotlines, and not lose that whole hack-n-slash stuff that the players seem to enjoy? <<

Well, I created a world set 400 years after a devistating war where even gods were slain and whole areas left devoid of all except monsters and the descendants of evil armies. Lots of ruins and dungeons and a few bad guys with ambitions and conflicting motives and organisations to back them. The players played a huge hack and slash game and I think all the subtlties were lost on them. Maybe I was a bit vauge, maybe the change of Players and characters as people joined and left the game impacted it but when I wrapped up the game nobody had a clue and all that was left was bitterness between some of the players.

That said:

My suggestion: play to the audience or find a new audience.

To create a world with lots of hack and slash and roleplaying, have a big organisation with lots of warriors (for cannon fodder) and some shady motives and boss guys who always seem to get away where everything the players do works to the advantage of said evil organisation so they get beat up and left alive. Even with messages giving hints and clues to their next big assignment (which is an unpaid job for said evil organisation) Remember the line from Indiana Jones and the lost ark:
"Once again Dr Jones what was briefly yours is now mine"

Just watch a few conspiracy theory movies, "Last kiss goodnight" about a secret agent who woke up with amnesia, lots of fighting lots of roleplay.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5306 by Soviet2001

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Message 5311 of 6769 Reply

Curse of the Wolf Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/30/01 5:56 am
I've had two Lycanthropes in my DMing history, none of whom I've had to retire or cure. The first died of his own accord (attempted to kill the children of a local paladin) and the second found a way to live with it. Once a month he would disappear for three days on a self enforced pilgrimage. While his wolfman was away I gave him a chance to be assistant DM for the others. In the end he enlisted the help of a master thief to steal the Collar of Thakos, which allowed him to harness his primal power.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5309 by orgruff

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Message 5312 of 6769 Reply

A Desperate Cry for Help Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/30/01 7:41 am
I know everyone (bar one) ignored the request for feedback or assistance with my website, but it's got a new poll which I'd like everyone to have a stab at. Feel free to browse the site and sign the guestbook whilst there. I still need help so anyone willing should mail me at Inches_72@yahoo.com


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Message 5313 of 6769 Reply

Re: A Desperate Cry for Help lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 4/30/01 8:48 am
Oy, cobber, your site address went walkabout from your post. :-)

Seriously, you need to put the URL in when you make a request like that - some people may have missed the original post, and others may not feel like searching the previous messages to find it.

Mahalo!

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5312 by Inches_72

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Message 5314 of 6769 Reply

Re: Books Reviews Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 4/30/01 9:21 am
Great book list. I think good additions to that list would be the books by Joseph and Francis Gies, most notably, Life in a Medieval Castle, Life in a Medieval Village, Life in a Medieval City, and Cathedral, Forge, and Waterwheel : Technology and Invention in the Middle Ages. They have a few others, too that are interesting, including books on Medieval women, families, mathematics, and other cool stuff. If you run a campaign based on Medieval European culture, these are very informational.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5304 by krovar1972

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Message 5315 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/30/01 10:19 am
DM Puzzler #3 Pirates Life Viewpoint.

In a quandry such as this, I always let the dice do the talking. Roll to see if Pyck looks before he leaps. I would give him saving throw with a moderate DC because he was in a hurry. If he makes the save and does not through himself out the wrong window, when then roll again to see if the mob chasing him has him cornered or does he have time to cross to the other side of the Inn for the big jump.

As DM, I always make the dice make the tough decisions, that way the players don't blame me, they blame the luck or lack of luck they had.

Don

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5288 by vonromig

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Message 5316 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 4/30/01 10:30 am
A note to my message.

I have a DM screen, I choose when a roll is viewable by the players or not! :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5315 by pirates_life_for_me

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Message 5317 of 6769 Reply

Big Game Crossbow madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 4/30/01 11:49 am
I'm introducing an NPC into my campaign Friday. He's a big game hunter and has developed a more powerful version of the crossbow to take down his quarry: the bow is of compound elements (though I realize his STR modifier cannot apply), the weapon is bigger and longer (like a rifle, I suppose), the bolts are longer and barbed, more like javelins really ...

Anyway, in the 3e PHB, a Heavy Crossbow does 1d10 damage, its threat range is 19-20 and its range is 120 ft. I want this Big Game Crossbow to be a more powerful weapon ... ideas? Limitations?


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Message 5318 of 6769 Reply

Re: Big Game Crossbow lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 4/30/01 12:50 pm
How about using the 2e rules on firearms for dramatic effect? Make the damage 2d6, but add & reroll every natural six. IMC, an assault rifle round does 2d6+2, adding & rerolling sixes. To make the weapon even more distinctive, how about the ol' Ladyhawk over/under double crossbow?

How much would improved optics help the range? Perhaps he has a short telescope mounted on it to help with range - enough to boost the range increment by 50% or so, lets say. I think the guy's design philosophy would be that this is a sniper weapon - long range, quiet, not for regular combat. I would look at him as having terrifig really long range attacks, but the rest of his attacks are short, hand to hand or dagger attacks. As a hunter, he hits his prey from so great a distance that he can't be detected, tracks it down, and kills is quickly and quietly with a knife to the throat.

There's an idea! The heads of his bolts detach and remain in the target. The head has blood channels inside it and the target takes an additional 1-3 points each round the head is inside due to blood loss. Removal of the barbed head is another 1d6.

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5317 by madteuton

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Message 5319 of 6769 Reply

vonromig: World Building series.+ runescience
(40/M/Baltimore, MD) 4/30/01 4:12 pm
Could you email me the world building series that youve been writing?

If you dont mind, could you send it to my home email at jodasi@hotmail.com

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5107 by vonromig

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Message 5320 of 6769 Reply

Re: Campaign Creation 2- Types x_zone15
(M/New Ulm, MN) 4/30/01 4:50 pm
Though when I DM the players love to hack, so I just simply throw it into the storyline instead of having the old cliche' of the "Random Encounters," though I throw those in occasionally, just to sate there roll-happy habits.

Do you have a playstation? Probably not but a game that is a good example of this is "Final Fantasy Tactics," or "Vagrant Story" to a lesser degree. Both these games consider the storyline for battles and has random encounters that at least make sense.

X, Darklord of Ravenloft (watch out for his constant use of "bitch slap," ouch!)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5306 by Soviet2001

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Message 5321 of 6769 Reply

What is "Bitch Slap?" x_zone15
(M/New Ulm, MN) 4/30/01 5:08 pm
In case you were wondering,its called "Bigby's Bitch Slap," and is a powerful wizard spell in "THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO UNLAWFUL CARNAL KNOWLEDGE FOR FANTASY ROLE-PLAYING GAMES," even though the spell isn't naughty (its pretty funny actually). Its hilarious even if you aren't a male chuavanist (sp?) pig. I'll even convert it to 3rd ed for you.
Bigby's Bitch Slap (Evocation)

Level: 4
Range: 10 yards/level
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Special
Casting time: 1 Action
Area of Effect: One female
Save: Will Neg.

A version of the Bigby's Hand spells (although probably not from Bigby). A quasi-real hand (five feet) comes into existence and smacks the nearest women that the caster commands it to. If the woman knows her place is in the kitchen, the hand only does 1 point of damage as a reminder. However if the woman has complained, whined or not been to the kitchen in three days, the hand instantly grows to the size of a Titan hand (25 feet) and knocks the woman into the nearest kitchen (be it 10 feet or 10000 miles) and forces her to cook a three course meal. If she continuously refuses, the hand will inflict damage on her until she submits (GM's decision on damage per hit).
The hand has as many hit points as the caster in full health and has an Armor Class of 0.
The material component of the spell is a leather glove.

X, Darklord of Ravenloft (and so NOT a chuavanist pig)


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Message 5322 of 6769 Reply

Re: Big Game Crossbow kwan_darkwood
(21/M) 4/30/01 5:47 pm
Perhaps a good limitation might be to decrease its rate of fire. I'm not sure how that works in 3rd Edition, but I would say that if it is used mainly for quick and powerful hits it would probably not be designed for quick combat loading.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5317 by madteuton

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Message 5323 of 6769 Reply

Re: Campaign Creation 2- Types kwan_darkwood
(21/M) 4/30/01 5:48 pm
I personally have played Final Fantasy Tactics and it is a very good way to combine combat and story. The plot is full of twists and surprises, but there are a lot of awesome battles too.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5320 by x_zone15

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Message 5324 of 6769 Reply

Re: What is lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 4/30/01 5:51 pm
I'd only allow that if A) males hit by it immediatly turn into prison bitches and start cooking meals for the caster; or B) there is a ranged touch spell for females ("Roseanne's Roshambo") that causes a disembodied boot to kick the nearest male in the jewels and (if a MCP) knock him into the nearest emotional sensitivity and sexual harrasment workshop, whether a mile down the road or on another plane. If I were being a real sadist, the PC would be stuck there until the feminist succubi running the class felt he had learned his lesson. If the player were being a real sphincter, He might even get turned over to a demon lord for some empathy training.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5321 by x_zone15

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Message 5325 of 6769 Reply

Campaign Creation 3- Mystery vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/30/01 7:09 pm
Every campaign has a mystery, the more complex the storyline the deeper the mystery.

Before one can do much of anything on creating a proper campaign one must be aware of how the Players solve puzzles and unravel mysteries in a world without fingerprints and modern forensic technics. It comes down to the DM having all the available info and in proper order, and the players talking to the right people and asking the right questions. Thus one must make sure to include all of the appropiate info in some form, so that the players have an access of some kind to it.

For Characters to understand who might be the right people to ask, comes from DM hints and 'question cues'. The hints are from conversations between PCs and NPCs in the game, that lead to other NPCs who might shed more light on a subject. 'Question cues' are when the DM has NPCs give out partial information without the PCs intitiating.

For the Characters to ask the right questions comes mostly from the intelligence of the players and their understanding and fully realizing that in your Campaign the complexity of it, can lead to anything that, they themselves, might think. The only question NOT asked is the stupid one.

You have got to stress to the players that your characters are NOT just standing around waiting to be asked questions by passing Adventurers, but have a life, and their own goals and motivations. And you have to, not only show this, but actually have it prepared so (discussed later in series).

The more involved and complex the storline you have prepared the more neccessary the players need to keep notes. What they learn in today's session may not be needed or usuable until four or more session down the road. (never make it so easy for them to completely track down a single line of questioning;...go here, ask...go here, ask...go here, ask...puzzle solved)

****Note; As with this 'chapter' and all to follow, I will be giving an example in the contents of the next post. Labeled with the appropriate number followed by 'Example'. This is to help in understanding the MEANING of the chapter, rather then just throwing info out there.
Von Romig


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Message 5326 of 6769 Reply

Re: A Desperate Cry for Help Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/30/01 7:38 pm
My bad!
www.angelfire.com/geek/knownworld
If everyone could check it out, fill out the poll, follow your founder's example etc. I'd be really grateful!
Chris

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5313 by lfnotter

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Message 5327 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 4/30/01 7:56 pm
Absolutely I would go through it in a series format to share. It's great stuff but........
What about copyright infringements?
The authors are Harold Johnson and Aaron Allston and the 'official game accessory' was "Distributed to the book trade in the United States by Random House Inc". Copyright 1988 TSR, Inc. All rights reserved.

I know there is a blanket agreement in the 3E material but I don't know if it would cover this. I have not bought any 3E nor read any.

What do you think?

Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5153 by vonromig

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Message 5328 of 6769 Reply

CC 3- Example vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/30/01 8:01 pm
The party is knee deep in the storyline and have resently 'stumbled' upon the name of someone who is quite involved in many of the events that is going on around them. The name they have is 'Treg Asthington'. They just learned he is from the village of Borhead...

Bartender in Borhead's only tavern: "Well, gentlemen, ol'Treg hasn't been here for many years. Some twenty or so..."
PC #1: "Do you have any idea where he might live now, good sir?"
Bartender: " Naw, but he used to hang around Reazic...the sword instructor over Paggen way."
(DM hint)
>>Just then an old man with a crude scar down the left side of his face and several men-at-arms comes into the tavern. They tell the party with no misunderstanding that they would be better off if they left the area and forgot about Treg. They leave without answering any questions why.<<

A tavern patron: "Yikes, How'd you get on Lionscar's shit-list, boys?" (DM question cue)
PC #4: "Who's Lionscar?"
Patron: "That's the local thieves guild muscle, he works for Tandor." (The PCs know of him)

PCs travel the four miles to Paggen, a village on the Ulsar River. With local directions finds Reazic at his practice field.

Reazic: "I knew Treg. We and a wily thief, Nobb, and Treg's wizard friend, Ulmarak, did some adventuring when we where younger." (More names for Players to add to their notes)
PC #1: "Where can we find Treg?"
Reazic: "Don't know now. When we broke up the group, him and Ulmarak went to Harvest Hall where the mage's Guild is (DM hint) but I heard the mage died...don't know about Treg."
PC #2: "What about the thief, Nobb?"
Reazic: "Joined a Guild in Aster, last I heard." (Another DM hint)

>>As it was getting dark, the party settled into rooms at the local Inn. Late at night they were attacked by low level fighters, easily handled. One was alive to give them info that sent them elsewhere on a wild goose chase...false info. They then got involved in a minor adventure with a fair haired girl, a merchant father, and some stolen goods. It was a month before they were passing through Harvest Hall and decided to call on the Wizard Guild just to verify the mage's death with the Guild leader, Husani.

Husani: "Died? No. I haven't heard that. But he was dispelled from the Guild when we found out he was working with the Thief's Guild...He's died to us...but not literally."
PC #2 checks his notes..."What did he look like?"
Husani: "Oh, about 5'9" with a nasty scar on the left side of his face..."

Putting together all of this info, the Players can solve one possible puzzle...The old adventuring group, Treg, Nobb, and Ulmarak just dropped the goody-Reazic and joined the Thief's Guild in Aster. They know what one of them looks like and if he doesn't show up again they will try finding him to lead the Party to Treg...and this is just one small puzzle among hundreds.
Von Romig


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Message 5329 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 4/30/01 8:09 pm
As you are not giving any indication that it is of your making nor withholding the names of those whose work it is, there is no infringements...

Plus, your just going to tell us about it in a series of posts...no different really then if we were sitting next to you and you were giving this info. It's word-of-mouth advertising, just through the club.
So give...
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5327 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5330 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 4/30/01 8:11 pm
Well, Von, I am a female DM and have had to play a female character to a male character run by another girl. It's not easy. Even though I'm a girl, I have no experience with saying girl things to another girl. Verrrrrry wierd, if you focus on the player and not the character. I just try to think of the male character she's playing and play to that. I have just as much trouble playing the male NPC's. I never remember that they would like to Humm........ recreate, ummm.........procreate, hummmmmm. I also forget that they will be protective of their, ummmmmmm body parts, egos, weapons.

I have even more trouble with the villains, as I've posted before. I have tried to think evil, but I'm not good at it. They want to what? Humiliate, manipulate, amputate????

I think any role can be a challenge if you do it well. As has been said - how do you really play an Elf?

Keep it simple. When I have to play to this girl's male character, I role play some of it and then use the 'and there are some blissful hours that follow after which they find themselves back in the tavern looking for more trouble.'

I think it's great that all you guys are even remotely concerned.

Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5154 by vonromig

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Message 5331 of 6769 Reply

Re: New Map midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 4/30/01 8:17 pm
Joe, I can't find your map in the photos area. What's up?

Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5130 by lordneodig

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Message 5332 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 4/30/01 8:19 pm
Compromise? You are the dungeon master.. from the sounds of it, Bill's character was nowhere around the incident, and thus has no clue what's going on and needs to sit down and shut up. Pyck, of course, goes splat.. or maybe, his fall was broken by the local sherrif... "You're nixed, me beauty..." alienate them both, I say, it's the only fair way...lol.. and hopefully by taking such a stance, you will avert similar problems in the future..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5288 by vonromig

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Message 5333 of 6769 Reply

Re: Books Reviews krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/30/01 8:19 pm
Thanks! I've added your post. It is #6, and have linked all recomendations to Barnse and Nobles. If anyone wants to buy one of these books support your local books store. Just copy down the books ISBN# and order it from your favorite shop. B&N is one of the easiest ways to get the ISBNs.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5314 by Umbratikus

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Message 5334 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 4/30/01 8:23 pm
I have never given people a break or gone soft just because i didn't know the group.. In the early stages of the campaign is when you set the standard - if you give in now, they'll expect you to give in later. I've found that while this might drive away the munchkins, IMHO true D&D players can actually find comfort in a strict DM. It helps them predict the outcomes of some of the things they may want to do..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5292 by vonromig

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Message 5335 of 6769 Reply

Help with Plot Devices purplejade1999
(20/F/Fairbanks, AK) 4/30/01 8:27 pm
I am a new DM, with my plot device is now gone because they have pretty much completed the quest. My question is what do I do now that the quest is done, yet the characters would like to continue with the game? Any help will be appriciated.


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Message 5336 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 4/30/01 8:47 pm
Well, OK. It's on the way.

Book 1 is the Adventure Design rulebook. Talks about the steps you go through to design dungeon adventures - from the initial idea, to building the adventure's crucial master villain, creatures and special encounters, to the adventure's chases and rewards and rip-snorting finale.

Book II is the Forms Book - I don't know how to reproduce this material here. Maybe just list the items on each form.

The forms are: Featured Villain, Adventure Outline, Plots & Mysteries, Featured Creature, Master Monster Matrix, Adventure Map, Adventure Introduction, Melee Encounter, Role-Playing Encounter, Wandering Monsters & Random Events, Traps & Dilemmas, Empty Rooms, Hazards, Events, Chases, Grand Finale and Treasures.

Book III is The Adventure Cookbook, and it looks at adventure ceation from another perspective entirely. Books I & II show you how to develop your ideas into a complete and fully-realized adventure. But what if you don't have any ideas on hand? What if you're due to run an adventure tomorrow - or in an hour - or in ten minutes - and there's nothing but hard vacuum where your adventure ideas should be?

That's where the Cookbook comes in. There, you'll find page after page of ideas for plot elements. On one page, you'll have several different types of master villains; on another page, lots of different types of plots; on yet another, several ways to get characters into your adventure.

In Book III, there's another form, the Adventure Generation Form; you can photocopy it, then flip through the Cookbook, choosing (or randomly rolling) one adventure element from each page. Once you're through with that, there's some advice about blending all these elements together into a coherent and fun adventure.

Next post: Book 1: Adventure Design.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5329 by vonromig

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Message 5338 of 6769 Reply

Re: Big Game Crossbow thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/30/01 9:12 pm
If the crossbow has greater tension due to size, string type, or the mechanism used to set it, then the missile will either:
a) travel faster.
b) travel further.
c) do more damage.
d) be a larger missile.
e) two or more of the above.

So you figure. If it takes more strength (or a better tension mechanism) to set, then it should do more damage. As such strength could indirectly modify the damage. No?

I think adjusting the damage by +1, 2 or 3 should be sufficient. If you instead feel the damage should only be adjusted for more potential damage not average, increase the die to a d10.

Also consider weapon specialization for +3/+3


T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5317 by madteuton

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Message 5340 of 6769 Reply

Re: Books Reviews krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/30/01 9:24 pm
Anyone else got a great non-RPG RPG book? Lets keep this list going. And please check out my page. http://top.mcttelecom.com/~krovar/
--------------
Thankyou for the reply and imput. I've placed your post on the page and linked the book suggestions to Barnse&Nobles. Your entry is #6 by the way. I figured linking the pages to Barnes and Nobles would be a good way for all yous to be able to quickly find the ISBN# of these books. So all we have to do is go down to our local bookstore and say,"Can you order book so and so for me? Here is the ISBN#. I'm a big fan of supporting the little guy.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5314 by Umbratikus

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Message 5341 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help with Plot Devices thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/30/01 9:25 pm
Surely you can

1) start a new module
2) create a new villain
3) do most any of the 10,000 things suggested by other members over the last 800 posts or so. Von, Midge, Umb and others have put an unbelievable amount of advise and even text-book-like, step-by-step instruction detailing exactly how they go about nearly everything from eco-systems to villain, quest, and storyline creation.

Do yourself a favor and check these posts, they are just what a DM in your situation needs to get a ton of ideas you can use right away.

I think Von, Umb etc. may comment further with post #'s??? Otherwise go back 800 postings or so and take the time to read through and copy/paste what you need.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5335 by purplejade1999

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Message 5342 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 4/30/01 9:26 pm
What is IMHO??? Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5334 by leeok31

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Message 5343 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/30/01 9:40 pm
Midge,
Do you even realize you have created a new catch-phrase? the "Basic 8's of evil.
You wrote: "I have even more trouble with the villains, as I've posted before. I have tried to think evil, but I'm not good at it. They want to what? Humiliate, manipulate, amputate????"

Very nice. Now we need 8 of them. I submit assassinate, and terminate.... Now we just need 3 more....

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5330 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5344 of 6769 Reply

Re: A Desperate Cry for Help krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/30/01 9:42 pm
Hello, I was going to check out your url www.angelfire.com/geek/knownworld, but unfortunately it did not work. I copy and pasted it so I beleive I put it into my browser correctly. Could you post your URL again? Thankyou

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5326 by Inches_72

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Message 5345 of 6769 Reply

Re: Books Reviews Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 4/30/01 9:47 pm
Wheel of Time had a great view on Magic. Although it is not a text, the Myth game series offered some great plot ideas and shows how you can make a story so much better by leaving gaps in the plots to leave people guessing. I've got a Worldbuilding Guide, packed full of questions (over 30 pages) which I can email to anyone who is interested. It isn't for AD&D but it is used for creating worlds by writers and so could be quite useful. Check out www.delphi.com/wannabeawriter for it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5340 by krovar1972

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Message 5346 of 6769 Reply

Re: CC 3- Example krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/30/01 9:47 pm
Just want to say bueatiful post. Now thats what it is all about. Thanks

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5328 by vonromig

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Message 5347 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/30/01 9:51 pm
Well Midge,

It stands for "In My Humble Opinion". What it really means is "I'm not really looking for a fight here". or "What I really mean is I'm right but attempting side-door diplomacy so as not to denigrate your conflicting opinion". Of course this is just, IMHO.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5342 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5348 of 6769 Reply

Re: Books Reviews krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 4/30/01 9:56 pm
Awesome, and thanks. Please email me the world builders guide. I love this stuff...krovar@monad.net. Later.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5345 by Inches_72

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Message 5349 of 6769 Reply

Re: A Desperate Cry for Help thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/30/01 10:38 pm
Hi Inches,

I visited your site and spent 5 minutes trying to locate the creature profiles necessary to vote in your poll. I am sure they must be there but I couldn't find them and just like 92% of the people who may visit your site, gave up. I would be happy to give this advise: Scale down the number of empty pages (put them back when you have content), work on your site navigation to make it clear to the user where he is going, I suggest larger links, less links (separate by category)more images and some kind of compelling image and/or audio enhanced entry page with flash or quick-loading JAVA.

I have some experience with web-design and use Dreamweaver, Cakewalk, JAVA script and such. No Flash for me yet. I would be willing to make a few suggestions, send you a shareware JAVA scripting program, augment some logo of yours or in other ways contribute to your design/media concept with transition fades etc. If you wish to discuss, email me at: thrandorian@home.com

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5326 by Inches_72

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Message 5350 of 6769 Reply

Re: Big Game Crossbow thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 4/30/01 11:21 pm
1-f, All I can say about your blood-channel arrowheads is eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh that would really be icky. Would you then prevent healing until the barbs are removed? This sounds like a high level character killer if I've ever heard one. Think how hard it would be to survive 3 or more hits. You would be hard pressed to get them out at all, let alone while in battle. Very powerful for a simple idea.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5318 by lfnotter

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Message 5351 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/30/01 11:30 pm
I can help you play the villians well. We have been through some of this a while ago, but I do not remember the post numbers.

The easiest villian, is the reverse of your favorite hero, movie star, etc. Someone whom you can identify with.

Another easy villian it the raging psycopath. The kind of fellow who would ask a drowning person to hold his anvil, because it would be fun!!!

The more subtler the villian, the more difficult. This brings up the Villian motivation information we went over a while ago.

Sometimes you can get a really good 'bad guy' from daytime soap operas. I do not rember what show he was on, but Stefano was a bad guy everybody loved to hate.

Some villians are cold and calculating, others are just greedy and consumed with their quests.

Revenge is a good motivator too. Villians usually do not consider themselved to be evil or wrong.

Darth Vadar is a good villian (although I probably overused him in my worlds)

As for the playing to the opposite sex, I do not recall the last time this has happened in my world. May be soon, so I will let you know just how good / bad I do.

As I believe you said, it is a mater of practice, role play involves one key element that acting also involves. It is this unspoken agreement between the actor and his /her audience to "suspend disbelief" and buy into the part.

If your players are willing to meet you half way, then you may have an easier time portraying this character who is the opposite sex as you.

There are still some techniques that can be utilized if the party is not willing to susbend it's disbelief that much.

3rd person narative: describe the person, and the actions they perform, rathter than trying to portray them yourself.

Writting out the part ahead of time, then hand it out at the appropriate time.

Hope this helps

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5330 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5352 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help with Plot Devices mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 4/30/01 11:41 pm
T,

let me add, searching for and using any of the myriad of Net books out there. like the Net Book of Plots.

I have a ton of net books, no idea how old they are, but I would be willing to e-mail them to anyone who would be interestred, or providing the book's name so it can be downloaded (most are zipped).


Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5341 by thrandorian

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Message 5353 of 6769 Reply

In need of maps! glorydazeddm
5/1/01 12:18 am
I'm starting up making up dungeons again after a long hiatus (where I realized I had to actually go to school to get a job to earn money to play D&D). Besides trying to get back in the swing of things, and find my imagination anew, I'd like to try to use the internet to find ready-made maps of towns/castles/towers for my endeavours, and was hoping that the more experienced of you could point me in the right direction?


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Message 5354 of 6769 Reply

Re: Big Game Crossbow lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/1/01 12:36 am
Can't take credit for it - the paleoindians were only one of a number of neolitic groups that used the same idea in order to hunt really big game.

Might give high-level PC a new respect for Kobolds, if they use the same principle.

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5350 by thrandorian

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Message 5355 of 6769 Reply

Re: In need of maps! lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/1/01 12:48 am
Pick up a copy of the Interactive FR Atlas. it has literaly HUNDREDS of maps, from tavers and festhalls to dungeons and towns, large to huge cities, and overland maps. You need CC2 to edit it, but not to view or print. There is no other product out there, at all, that has as much value for the cost as the FR Atlas. Don't play FR? So what? All of these maps can be dropped into your campaign with minimal detailing. It is an amazing timesaver.

I did some of the maps in it, and I can tell you from experience that the amount of hours invested in creating these maps would crush you if you tried to create this volume of work on your own. I spent probably 40-50 hours on the map of Tukan alone - and it's far from the biggest city in there. Symbol creation for the New Mother Tathlorn's was probably another 10 hours at least, with about ten on the actual floor plan.

Those two maps, by themselves, are almost two solid work weeks that you can invest in another area of your campaign.

And they are only a small fraction of what's in there....

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5353 by glorydazeddm

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Message 5356 of 6769 Reply

A call to DMs Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 5/1/01 6:44 am
Are you a DM with plenty of ideas but no method of getting them to the people? Are you a DM who enjoys collaborating with other DMs? Do you have infinite ideas that you need help focussing? If you answered yes to any of the above, then a position on the Known World development team is for you. There is no payment, only the satisfaction of getting your work posted on a developing AD&D Campaign World site. This sounds like a plea for help (and in some ways it is) but I can help YOU. I have had six years of DMing experience and a bundle of ideas, not to mention a HUGE A2 map. Email me at Inches_72@yahoo.com or check out the website at www.angelfire.com/geek/knownworld

P.S. I am sure my advertising irritates a few, please understand that I am trying to create something to benefit most DMs and as a student preparing for his HSC, I don't have the spare time to create a complete world in no time.
Inches aka Lord Raven


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Message 5357 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help with Plot Devices Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 5/1/01 7:24 am
Simply start a new adventure, but, for the sake of continuity, try to find a way to tie the next adventure in with the last. Need an adventure? Pick up a copy of Dungeon Magazine if you are not comfortable making your own yet.

Also check out the Wizards of the Coast website. There are some free adventures there for download. Try some of those.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5335 by purplejade1999

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Message 5358 of 6769 Reply

Re: A Desperate Cry for Help Inches_72
(17/M/Ben Lomond, Australia) 5/1/01 7:41 am
www.angelfire.com/geek/knownworld should have worked. If not, try adding /index.html to the end of the URL. Thanks for your interest
Inches/Raven

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5344 by krovar1972

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Message 5359 of 6769 Reply

Re: Big Game Crossbow madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 5/1/01 9:07 am
Thanks, T!

So, yeah, I've decided it'll take 2 rounds to load, it's a masterwork weapon, does 2d6+1 damage, has a range of 180', threat range of 19-20, requires a 13 STR to load and requires specially-made ammunition which must also be masterwork (an expensive proposition). This can only be used by beings of at least medium size.

I like the bleeding bolt-tip idea, but think it's *too* unbalancing at the point where my PCs are now. How would this work? Require a certain Heal DC to remove?

I've also included a mini-spyglass scope which gives a +2 bonus to Spot & Search checks.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5338 by thrandorian

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Message 5360 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help with Plot Devices madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 5/1/01 9:09 am
If you give us an idea what the last plot was, I'm sure you'll find we're full of ideas.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5335 by purplejade1999

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Message 5361 of 6769 Reply

Plot Device pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 5/1/01 9:59 am
I believe you mean Plot or Scenario or just furthering your adventure/story.

A plot device is used by an author to do something in a story to get to a point where he/she wants it without being particularly original. An example, a brother who always gets into trouble and has to have a hero bail him out, the brother is a "plot device" because it makes it easier for the author to engage his hero in being heroic.

Sorry for the English lesson. Weird that I posted it because I was a foreign language major.


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Message 5362 of 6769 Reply

Magic Fumbles - Combat Fumbles - Tables pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 5/1/01 10:27 am
Speaking of plot devices.....

Tables tables tables...

Something I have wanted to get off my chest since seeing the new rulez.

I am a big fan of the Third Edition Rulez. The flavor of the game has changed for the better, feels more modern. Is complex enough, not too complex. My only complaint is lack of certain tables and rules to go with them. Magic Fumbles and Combat Fumbles. Have I not scoured the rules enough to find them?

I started playing in high school before the DM's guide was released. A really smart fella named Dave Hargrave (may he rest in peace) came up with some rules for DnD that extended the basic set called Arduin Grimoire. There were 5 or 6 books, small, like the original DnD rules. In these books were great new character classes, new spells, monsters, a better starting HP system. (based on race versus class) But the great thing about these books were some of the tables Dave came up with to generate random events.

My favorite was the critical hit table, followed by some of the fumble tables. They added some humor and entertainment value to my and my friends games.

Anyone else here remember these? I gave away my Arduin materials 6 years ago, I am now looking to replace them. (Does anyone know if they are still printed?)

Along that line I am thinking about creating a netbook for 3rd Edition DnD of tables. I am looking for inputs (tables you may have created yourself for your games). Some of these might be combat or magic oriented, some may be totally off the wall. I am not looking for random encounter tables, there are plenty of them about.

The tables I am looking for usually contain 20 to 100 elements and are usually percentage dice rolled. A small example would be thus.

Don's Daily Weather Table. (d100)

1-25 Dry, clear, small amount of clouds.
26-30 foggy
31-50 rain, light
51-65 rain, heavy
66-75 as above with thunder and lightening
76-95 snow
96 heavy snow, 1 inch per hour
97 blizzard, can't see more than 2 ft.
98 hail, < one inch
99 hail > one inch
00 Special weather.

And then if they roll 00 you can have a sub table that has a d6 (or whatever) of even less common weather.

A good table is useful to use and makes things more random in some sense but gives you a broader environment to work from. To improve the above table I would probably group the cold and warm on elements on either side of the table then (in a temperate game environment) add or subtract a value to keep unlikely weather from happening during a particular season. (If your game has spring-summer-fall-winter) That way it does not snow in July.

What do you think? What kinds of tables do you think are missing from the DMG and Players Handbook?

Don


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Message 5363 of 6769 Reply

Re: Big Game Crossbow lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/1/01 10:47 am
Oh, I was working under the impression that this big game hunter was going to be stalking the PCs! If he's on their side then there's no way they should get the nasty points! The last version you presented sounds relativly balanced. Making the ammo expensive is a must. I'm getting to that point IMC; the party has had a pretty easy time finding 7.62 FMJ and 9mm ammo to feed their assault rifles and Glocks up until now, but it's been over a year since society fell apart and they've been using the ammo they find pretty liberally. I threw a reloading set at them a while back, but they've been really lax about policing their brass.

There was a feat combination in Dragon a while back that I am very glad my players havn't used yet - your players my get the same idea, so be prepared. Taking the feat (don't remember the name) that doubles the critical threat range on a weapon combined with the Keen Edge spell produces a weapon (or 50 pieces of ammunition) that scores a threat on about a natural 12 - which means an almost certain crit.

It might not be much of a problem when there is only one or two attacks, but my house rules for semi-auto firearms allow up to six shots per round! So, time to balance out the lethality of firearm by reducing the amount of ammo available and making the party conserve it for really special occasions. At least they havn't gotten their hands on a Browning M2 .50 caliber. You hunt aircraft with those things - which makes them wonderful when stalking dragon.


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Message 5364 of 6769 Reply

MacGuffins SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 5/1/01 11:11 am
I understand that in spy fiction, the "thing that makes the plot go" is generically called "the MacGuffin." For instance, in "The Maltese Falcon," everyone was after the falcon - it was the MacGuffin.

A lot of AD&D adventures use MacGuffins. Whether you're searching for the Lost Pearl of the Archmage of Water, the Holy Rod of Andoor, or your kidnapped sister, you're looking for a MacGuffin. It's a good plot, and there are all sort of embroderies you can do to keep it from being a simple "go fetch" scenario.

So now your players have the MacGuffin - they've solved whatever quest you put them on. Now what?

One thing that springs to mind is dealing with having the MacGuffin. Surely, other people are still interested in it. If, on the other hand, they destroyed the MacGuffin (killed the villan, threw the One Ring into the lava, etc), what's the fallout? Surely roses don't bloom and birds sing. Maybe someone swears revenge on the destroyers (the PCs) and they find themselves plagued with bad luck, false accusations, and assassination attempts.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. You can use the PCs own triumph to set off a series of events that will result in their next set of adventures.


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Message 5365 of 6769 Reply

Campaign Creation 4- Mystery II vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/1/01 4:38 pm
Continueing the ideas of how Players solve mysteries within a medieval society. The first covered following leads gained during conversations with NPCs, now Clues.

Clues can be any item upon, owned, or previously used by an NPC. They include his dwelling place, horse, weapon, personal items, as well as the bloody dagger in his hand.

Clues to one's identity is physical features, habits, and associates. Although names can be useful they are not as reliable, they can change on a whim (with no modern ID registration proceedures there is no way to validate or elimenate a person's true name)

So how does one use an item as a clue without fingerprints and such...In a medieval setting nothing is massed produced, each item is unique and made by usually one individual. This applies mostly to weapons, armor, bardings, metal and leather pieces (backpacks, belt buckles, tin cups, etc) and fashioned equipment of wood, stone, and jewelry. Clothing on the other hand is done in 'sweatshops' and to the employees of these establishments one shirt looks like another, unless the garment is specially made. Such apparel is done by high level Tailors and would know his own work and perhaps that of a few others just like any blacksmith or cobbler.

So to follow the Clue...go to its maker. Very unusual pieces may even be known by the locals if such an item was a distinguishing feature of said individual..."Bartok always wore that Badger emblazoned talisman!" This of course only works if the item was made or sold to the person the players are investigating. Items found, stolen, or bought from a second party will lead to someone else (who may then lead the PCs to the right person???) or be of an age that no such lead now exists. It may even be a secret as to who the maker was or from an area never travelled by the characters, so the PCs may never learn.

Also be wary of the makers memory. For although he may have made the item he may not remember doing so, who he sold it to, and/or when it was produced. The older the item the less chance of a good lead.

So to prevent the PCs from running around searching for every maker of every item that was on a suspect let them be aware of these facts. Only newer and unique pieces need to be so checked and even then success is not guaranteed.

Without an 'Information Age' name changing among the individuals who do so are more towards nick-names then completely different indentities. Only the most devious (thieves, assassins) and intelligent (evil mages and clerics) will use not only a name change, but upon being asked will have a whole new past prepared. Checking up on these created pasts can show their deception if the NPC is not cautious enough to use a less detailed history.

The usuability of clues given to player is up to the DM. Don't be surprised if they take some item, name, or piece of conversation and follow it out, even though you have no such info on said investigation. Still treat this 'path' as you would one where you have pages and pages of links...look through notes, make new notes, and give good solid answers (don't have it look like your making up stuff). Otherwise these actions will tell the players they're on the wrong path and stop, whereas their characters in 'reality' wouldn't. They will use you as a geiger-counter. Even have a list of premade names, places, etc for just such events; makes it look and sound more convincing. (Instead of,"...uh,yeah...um his dad was Bob the fighter." You should be, "His father was Gaeder Rochner out of Grendale." Since you looked in your notes, getting them; Gaeder Rochner and Grendale, from your list of names it looks as solid a lead as a real one...don't make it easy for them!)
Von Romig


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Message 5366 of 6769 Reply

CC 4- Example vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/1/01 5:27 pm
Using the same group of PCs from CC 3...

>>After debating where to find these three ex-adventurers-gone-bad PC #2 remembers that he still has one of the shortswords used by the attacking fighter, that night in the Inn. It is in his pack on his horse...The weapon is well crafted with a large, ornamental quartz crystal as a pommel. After checking a few weaponsmith in the surrounding villages with no luck they drop the subject for awhile. Three game sessions later they find themselves in the village of Brocaed and on a whim PC #2 calls upon the weaponsmith there...<<

Smith: "Oh, yeah. This is one of my better pieces. It was during my 'Hollow Grip' period, after I saw some work by Drusaliak."
PC #2: "Hollow grip?"
Smith: "Yeah, here let me show you..." Takes sword and with a solid turn on the quartz pommel the stone screws off. "AAH. Looks like there is something inside!"
>>PC #2 takes back sword and dumps out a roll of paper, charcoal rapped in birch (my world's version of the pencil), and two small gems.<<
PC #2's player asks DM...'Why didn't I notice?'
DM as Smith: "I gave the grip a thin lining of tin to maintain the feel and balance and the gems must have been secured from rattling by the paper."
PC #2 (back in character) looks at the items and sees that the some of the paper has writing on it, and the gems are cut funny. "Can you, good sir, tell me what cut these gems have?"
Smith: "Looks like 'Rough Cut' to me."
PC #2: "Rough cut, what's that?"
Smith: "When a gem comes from the mine too blemished and small for a jeweler to waste his time, the most damaged and cracked areas are cut off to give it SOME value."
PC #2: "How much are they worth."
Smith: "Not sure...don't buy them for my pieces."

>>The writing on the paper is full of leads and the party starts to try and follow them but during the first trip PC #2 goes to a local jeweler (in Delvar, several days later).<<

Jeweler: "Worth? Let me see. Made of Galderite crystal...blue hues, hmmmm." Takes a small jeweler's glass out and puts it to his eye.
PC #2: "I know they're not worth much, but if I can get anything out of them, great."
Jeweler: "Ummmmm...Wha...Oh! There seems to be a pattern in this gem's cut...the way it is cut lets you see the pattern when you hold it like this..." shows PC #2.
>>Looking at it he sees the outline of an 'opened hand'...ask the jeweler to check the other one for a pattern. Yes, one of a 'skull'...<<

>>When the characters are all back together they deside that the two gems are some form of identification for the Poison Hand Thief's Guild, which is operated by Tandor.<<

Remember you can have clues galore only their actions and a little help from you can have the player's characters find them. Don't worry if the don't pick up on everything...that leaves interesting holes to baffle them.

Can you fellow members find the Hints and such that PC #2 did not? And what possible path could this have taken them on...use your imagination.
Von Romig


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Message 5367 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help with Plot Devices vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/1/01 5:55 pm
Just to add a little to Umbratikus' great ideas...

Both, midget002us and I are just now writing posts on creating adventure campaigns, you can check out these as they come out for ideas and style concepts in creating a new thrill ride for your players. Mine posts haven't yet got to the actual meat-n-potatoes, still working on the prelimaries to starting the creating proccess, whereas Midget's posts will be jumping right in so for quickness keep an eye out for his work.

But as Umbratikus stated the use of the previous adventure would help maintain a sense of continuity...use a minor NPC, and give him a large tie to some major events for the party to start investigating. Remember the game is never over until the dice are laid down for good...with me that's when I'm in my grave :)

To hold back Time...have them do some wandering style adventures, one without a goal but fun to play...use a module or two until you have worked through your Campaign and it is ready. It keeps them playing, and who's to say that its all not just part of your bigger picture.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5357 by Umbratikus

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Message 5368 of 6769 Reply

Re: MacGuffins vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/1/01 6:03 pm
Very good point...They have what they wanted. Does this mean that everybody else just stops wanting it? Noooooo. Great way to continue any storyline.

Do you know where the term 'MacGuffins' comes from? Where'd the 'name' get it's connotations?
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5364 by SCA_Bard

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Message 5369 of 6769 Reply

Re: Big Game Crossbow vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/1/01 6:18 pm
Thrandorian is right...YOWCH!!!

But the name suits it. Just like an elephant gun today. If you shot a human with it, it would literally cut a man in half. Of course with a two turn reload the user might not get off to many shots before he had to pull his sword...because if they don't run, they're be charging!

Just a thought...with the force of tension and all, the possibilty of weapon damage to itself could be used as a balancing factor as well. Many large caliber guns today need constant maintenance to function properly. The same could be true with the Big Game Crossbow. A warping of the bow arms, snapping of the 'line', or damage to the tiggering device. The increase cost of using the weapon might lead to the owner saving it for the really big creatures...as it was made and intended for, thus the name.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5350 by thrandorian

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Message 5370 of 6769 Reply

Re: DM Puzzler #3 midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 5/1/01 6:32 pm
A new one just for you - IMHHO - In My Hardly Humble Opinion. Thanks, T.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5347 by thrandorian

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Message 5371 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 5/1/01 6:48 pm
Hi, Matt. I know you are trying to get this through my tinkerbell head, but I guess that what I really have trouble with is not the types of villains, but their in-the-moment motivations. Revenge I understand, no problem. Joy of killing, rewards of humiliation, assets of power - those are tough. I try to think - Here I sit, the Malevolent Marvin and today I want to what? See the ratfink goodey priest covered in blood? Why would I want this? Does it give me a kick to see blood covering the good guy or is there another kick? Maybe I'm trying to understand the satisfactions that villians are looking for in their daily doings. I get the big motivations, but I have to play these guys in moment-to-moment time and I just don't see the immediate satisfactions. Probably a good thing if I want to go to Heaven, but not helpful if I have to portray a bad guy.

I hit you - you hurt. But is that a physical delight or a mental one or both? I'm assuming here that bad guys want kicks like everybody else.

I can't imagine why Darth Vader went through all the disgusting times with the Emperor humiliating him. Nothing the Emperor could have given me (except removing a threat to something I loved and was willing to die for) would have moved me to put up with his ugly face for a minute, much less apprentice to him.

Beats me. Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5351 by mattbcieri

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Message 5376 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 5/1/01 8:38 pm
I am still a bit uneasy about posting this stuff.

What about "This material is protected under the copyright laws of the Untied States of America. Any reproduction or other unauthorized use of the material or artwork contained herin is prohibited without the express written permission of TSR Inc." ???????!!!!!

We are certainly not in a living room. This is accessible to the whole world, theoretically. If I had created this and found it posted for all to copy, I would be looking for a lawyer.

What do the rest of you think. Is this covered by that 3E domain thing?

Ilsa, the Worrier; Ilsa, the I Definately Don't Want A Court Experience Chicken

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5329 by vonromig

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Message 5377 of 6769 Reply

Basic 8's of Evil midgetoo2us
(F/Pompano Beach, Florida) 5/1/01 8:45 pm
Humiliate, manipulate, amputate, assassinate, terminate & assimilate. That's six. Now we just need 2 more.......

Ilsa

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5343 by thrandorian

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Message 5378 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/1/01 9:31 pm
I hadn't been following this thread until I caught the beginning of your last post - this is definitly copyrighted material and should not have been posted. Fair Use means "Your personal use"; allowing copying of small sections of rules text and such for your private gaming group does not not apply to posting in this forum. The product may be out of print and abandoned, but the copyright still exists.

If , as you say, you feel that you would be looking for a lawyer if you were the author of this work, then I think you have answered your own question as to wether or not you should be doing it.

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5376 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5379 of 6769 Reply

Re: Basic 8's of Evil glorydazeddm
(33/M/California) 5/1/01 10:52 pm
Annihalate,retaliate?
Jean-Paul

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5377 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5380 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 5/1/01 11:53 pm
Perhapse we should look up the copy write law.

To the best of my knowledge;

There is no infringment if there is no money exchanged

Writing word for word must reference the author, material

Pharaphrasing the information is allowed (references must be given)

The posts are OK, (as far as I know) if they are referenced, no money is exchnaged.

The best way to handle this situation, is to write the information you wish to share, in your own words, reference the source, and maybe discuss or interject your own thoughts.

Have you ever written a term paper in college? Were you required by law to seek out the author / publisher approval to qoute them?

The same rules for a term paper should apply hear. If there are any special rules that have been created for internet discussions, then i am not aware of them.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5378 by lfnotter

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Message 5381 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 5/2/01 12:20 am
I would not call you a tinkerbell head.

Though I can understand where you are coming from.

You can look at this in 2 ways:

1] The thoughts and interactions of a true villian are difficult and comples rewuiring training in sicology sociology, and the history / personality profile of the villian in question.

2] The villians (and other people) are not as complicated as everyone believes, just different in some way. Those who are evil especially get loccked into a type of programmed behavior, which will be executed even when it is highly inappropriate.

We have discussed the overall motivation of the villian, but you want to know the day to day stuff. here goes:

If you take approach #1 you might begin to study psycology, abnormal psycology, and criminology.

Kind of a tall order, but it may be an interesting venture if you are so inclined, however, this may only tell you about very specific behaviors in very specific situations.

How many times in the REAL world do you hear about somebody going beserk, and their friends and neighbors all say "He was such a nice guy"

Villians (and criminals) can pass for normal people, and even act normal as long as their psycological 'trigger' is not pressed.

If you follow tactic 2 then you can come up with a few behaviors that fit the villian, that will apply to every situation. You may begin to come up with a simple personality profile.

Once again, take your hero and reverse him or her.

Remember a quite from Starwars Phantom Menace, when yoda was refusing to train young skywalker because of his fear. yoda said:

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering!"

In real life this path is probably a few steps longer, but this is a good model for villians.

A vilian who is so affraid of being conquered, may go out and conquer all others before they get the chance.

The day to day for this villian would be fairly simple, any confrontation would make him affraid, unless he had the upper hand, in which case he most likely would press the advantage to it's fullest. (A good guy would show mercy, never hit a man when he is down, that sort of thing). villians are the exact opposite. (or can be if you want them to be.)

Anger and greed are, or can be very consuming. If a villina is consumed with a goal, NOTHING else matters. let me give you an example of this kind of cosumption with REAL world examples, Vincent Van Gogh, and Benjamine Franklin.

Van Gogh was consumed by his painting so much so that he would buy art supplies before he bought food, even if that nemt that he would go hungry. Franklin did the same, but his passion was reading. I believe he is quoted as saying "If I get a little money I buy books, and if I get a little more I buy food and pay rent."

This consuming goal will (Force) the villian to act a certain way even if it is inappropriate. (like buying books or paints when you really need to buy food).

A mad scientist type of villian would try to prove his expieriment, at all costs. No mater who died, no mater who he had to kill. The villian would prove his expieriement or die trying. Watch any Frankenstein movie that focuses on the mad Dr. Frankenstein, and not the monster. Dr Frankenstein is driven.

more in next post

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5371 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5382 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit - RANT!! lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/2/01 12:33 am
You have no idea what you are talking about and your "term paper" example is a magnificent avatar of ignorence.

Exchange of money is irrelevent. Reprinting an original work, in whole or in part, without the express permission of the copyright holder, is illegal, period.

Quoting a small portion of text or referencing another work is entirely legal, but very limited in scope. One or two paragraphs of quotation is generally the limit, depending on circumstances. Referencing a source is a matter of page number, title, author, publisher, and publication date, not reprinting the whole freaking work.

Paraphrasing? Legal, yes, but not to the extent of paraphrasing an entire work. Your asinine suggestion that manually reprinting the entire work and posting it without asking for money is legal is so steeped in ignorence as to be tantamount to willful stupidity.

Yes I'm angry, and I'm angry at you, matt. This is a product published by a company we should all be protective of. The people that invested their time and energy into creating this product deserve better than to have it reproduced and distributed against their will. If the product says "No reproduction or distribution without prior written permission of the publisher", any literate person capable of making moral decisions should be able to understand what that means.

It's no different than you photocopying the DMG and passing it out for free at a gaming convention. It's theft.

I don't really have a problem with people who make the moral decision to find and use copywrited material as long as they understand that what they are doing is illegal and they are prepared to answer, legally and morally, for their actions. I've got a generous selection of warez software, myself. If I'm just curious about something, I'll get a warez version to play with. If I decide to use it, I'll buy the full version. And I've bought the full versions, at retail, of Poser, Photoshop, and Dreamweaver. I bought a used but legal copy of 3d Studio MAX. All of these I used to have warez, until I decided that I owed the creators the respect of buying full versions.

If you want to see the rest of the design kit posted here, fine. Admit to the world and to yourself that you are stealing from WoTC, and post it. Just don't try to cover up that fact that you are stealing with straw man arguments or other smoke and mirrors.

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5380 by mattbcieri

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Message 5383 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Villians mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 5/2/01 12:41 am
All consuming anger is probably considered hate. When the mere sight, mention or reference to another individual instantly ruins your day and makes you clenched fisted angry, it is probpbly hate.

What separates the normal folks from the villins is that they decide (conciously or not) to act out that hate. A bad guy is likely to yell scream, plot against, pick a fight, poison, or do any other sort of nasty stuff to the object of his hate (read enemy).

"Why do I hate the so, let me count the ways!" If you are going to use hate, you must develope the reason for this hatred. maybe the villian and his enemy were best of friends at one time till they both competed for the love of a madin. When the villian failed his love for her turned to hate for him.

"If I can not have her than nobody will". A vilina will often resort to trying to kill the girl to stop his rival from 'winning'l because at this point is becomes a game that the villian does not want to loose.

Another tactic the villina maytake, is to try to find some way to dishonor, or shame his rival in the eyes of the lover. A true schemer would look for ways to pin bad stuff on the hero. "Our town would not be the target of brigand attacks, if you were not here", said the villian. teh villian would also look for ways to out do his rival. Gee what a hero, you slew 50 goblins to defend our town, while I risked life and limb to repel 100 orcs." said the villian.

Often a villian may seem petty and childish to EVERYONE except the villian. That probably would be the reason the woman he loved chose the other man.

So what are the day to day interactions of villians? As I said before they would seem normal unless their psicological trigger was set off.

have you seen any movies with a Ming the merceless type of villin, who plots and plans to rule the universe. Some hero, or even a nobody starts getting in the way, and the villin ignores him or sends a flunkie to deal with the threat. After the hero had defeated several flunkies and hier ups in the chain, the villian's plans may be threattened.

Notice how the villinans act at this point? they hell at the incompitence of their flunkies, they lask out at their subordinates, sometimes kicking and beating them? "Anger leading to hate and suffering"

How do you act when you are angry? How do you want to act when you are angry? You have a sense of write and wrong, and that stops you from doing some of the things you might be thinking about when you are angry.

Villians either do not know, do not care, or are so consumed by their goal the cant see what is right in front of them.

I think I have rambled on in several different directions at once. Ilsa, please reply if you still have more questions, or if this did not help you. Give me some specific ehamples / situations that you are wondering and I (and several others in the club I suspect) will try to help you.

I would not call myself an expert on villinas by far (but it is somewhat of a issue I have been dealing with trying to DM in Ravenloft where the villians are so evil and so pathetic, that the players do not know wether to slay them, or re-abilitate them.)

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5381 by mattbcieri

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Message 5384 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Villians (Example) mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 5/2/01 1:14 am
An extreem example:

Remember the used car sales man in true lies? He lies to women to get them hot for him so he can sleep with him.

He thinks that all men are not created equal, and that he got the short end of the deal (literally). (as a Ravenloftism this is his pathetic side).

In the movie he was evil, but not tryely villianous. We aare going to upgrade his status to world class vilian-atide.

So what is his motivation, maybe he tried being nice and sincere and got laughed at. The cruel remarks of others hurt him deeply. So he promises to himself to never be laughed at again.

What does he do? He is ashamed of his physical smaller than average build, so he may decide to overcompensate. A large car, heavy armor (in D&D).

What is his evil plan? He wants the women to swoon over him, but can not while the heros are out and about. He must either eliminate the heroes or show himself to be the superior 'man' infront of the world (or his villiage or his love interest)

Scientific approach? Maybe he invents steroids? (A strength potion with a much longer duration, so he can bulk up.

Best his advasaries approach? he would rey to slay bigger and bigger monsters just to prove he is more a 'man' than the heores are. it does not matter that the 'Jolly green Giant' in the next valley is a peaceful farmer. It is a big target. It goes back to that pettiness and childness, you can almost hear our villian saying "I slew a giant bigger than you did" in that sing-songy way.

Eliminate the competition approach: If he were going remove the heroes from the picture in the hopes that in the absence of a real man the women will become interested in him, he has some choices.

Contrive a forged document, from the king or othe noble, sending the men on a quest far away. Send them into a trap or ambush in the hopes they will be killed off.

Another diabolical idea he might have, is to use some kind of time reverse / fast forward spell that would only affect the men. Maybe poison the villiage water supply with it so that all the men (except him) either become too old, or too young to be atractive to the women or woman he desires.

Day to day: His every action would be to get closer to this goal. Since his special weakness deals with his relationships with women (and his own self esteem) this is his psycological trigger.

He would become cold, or turn away if he say an obvious couple. Especially if they shared gustures of affection in front of him.

The villian may stammer and fumble in front of an attractive woman, especially if he did not augment his physique (and his ego / esteem) yet.

If a woman were to talk to him, and show not the least bit of interest in him (as a member of the opposite sex) he would be completely crestfallen (His ego would be like a balloon that had all of the air let out.) (But only if he knew nobody was looking).

He may put on a fake face infront of others. make up wild stories. Liek saying he was with better women that that, or he turned her down. (maybe he is so transparent that everybody knows what a pathetic looser he is, or maybe he is such a good liar that he has everyone fooled.)

He would avoid any attempts to discuss the subjects that were uncomfortable to him. If one of the heros teased or ridiculed him about his special weekness he would either retreat, fly out in a rage, or (if he were cool enough, say nothing and plot an especially evil punishment for the offending hero.)

This punishment could be something like (remember the speical weakness) stealing all of the hero's clothes, replacing them with womans clothes while he is asleep, so that the next time he is seen out it is in a dress. Our villian would be the one laughing the loudest at the hero's misfortune, and would be the only one who would think to question the hero's manhood.

These punishments could be far worse, but I datr not continue

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5383 by mattbcieri

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Message 5385 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit - RANT!! thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 5/2/01 1:30 am
To be perfectly fair 1 f, Mat states from the outset "Maybe we should look up copy write law" and prefaces the following comments as: "To the best of my knowlege". Your comments about copywrite protection are of course generally correct. I have music, and a few stories which are copywritten myself and you are right about protection regardless of the intent to make profit. Otherwise I could blackmail writers who must pay me not to "Give" their works away.

I agree with what you have said 1 f but it seemed to me like Mat went out of his/her way also to qualify the statements made as being questionable in reliability.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5382 by lfnotter

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Message 5386 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 5/2/01 1:38 am
I don't think emotionally volatile phrases like "Tinkerbell Head" have any place in an enlightened society. Tinkerbell has been maligned unfairly as "less intelligent" due to a singular event that happened long ago. Besides why don't you jump on that cross-dressing Peter (yea right) Pan that's where the real story is.

Sorry, I just feel strongly,

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5381 by mattbcieri

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Message 5387 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit - RANT!! lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/2/01 2:24 am
What's this "1f" stuff? If you're going to use some arcane shorthand to refer to my nickname could you at least use one that has some relation to it?

It's not the fact that Matt's statements were questionable that I objected to; it was his disingenuousness. Saying, "Maybe we should look up the Berne Convention and consult an intellectual property lawyer before continuing" or even, "Hey, why not send off a quick inquiry letter to TSR legal" would be one thing.

Attempting to justify reprinting an entire product with some specious rules lawyering is quite another.

I wouldn't have gone off in the first place if the post actually had been asking questions about IP law, copyright, or Fair Use. I don't believe that there was any sincere interest in finding out the facts, only in whitewashing illegal conduct.

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5385 by thrandorian

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Message 5388 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit - RANT!! mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 5/2/01 2:25 am
At this sight I found information on the fair use clause of the copywright law (probably the whole of the law as well if you wish indepth information)

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/92chap1.html#107

As a review of the material in the book (protions can be used) not every word, paraphrased or otherwise

To rewrite the whole (even paraphrased) would be an infringment. I am sorry you thought this is what I was sugesting.

I had not read the material in question (just a quick glance) before my last post. Looking it over it seems it was too lengthly to be a review.

As a review this information should have been sumarized into 1 paragraph or 2 (not 3 posts? with each item description and the table)

As a review it should include a "What I liked best / worst" info, as well as any suggestions to improve (or any inspirations that came from this work. Like I followed the steps in the book and this is the adventure I came up with, or some such.)

It would be equally rediculous for anyone to type in such volumes of information.

I do not know about you, but I was looking for the review to see if this material would be benificial to me, before I made the decision to purchase. (I have gotten too many books that are not as indepth as I would like them to have been).

I would purchase the Adventure Cook Book alone if it were sold separate.

Perhapse it would be best if this review were to end now.

This site describes several factors:

Of which comercial use vs non-profit educational use is spelled out.

It also considers the size of the portion used, and it's effect on the market / value of the information.

This section 107 spells out fair use clause.

I appreciate your position and conviction. I should have taken more care to be more specific. Fair use covers portional use and the substansibility of the portion, non-comercial (I read as no money exchanged), and effect on the market. (So photocopying the whole DGM and giving free copies at a convention would impact the market demand negatively and therefore be an infringment). Considering the indepth nature of the posts it may come under fire on substansibility. Section 107 also covers ediucational usage, (reproduction of material for class-room training, but I do not think that applies).

I would appreciate, however the next time you decide to RANT against me, make sure you have the facts straight.

(2 wrongs do not make a right ...)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5382 by lfnotter

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Message 5389 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit - RANT!! lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/2/01 3:01 am
Nice job finding that site and summarizing the salient points. I'm not sure why you say I didn't have my facts straight, since my rant is in accord with everything you mentioned; care to cite a specific?

I think actual reviews of different products would be usefull - I'd like to see more of them. The posts in question are not reviews. The poster acted inappropriatly and realized her error. I'd like to see the posts continue in actual review format.

The research you did for this post was great. If you'd done it in the first place, there would have been no need for a rant.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5388 by mattbcieri

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Message 5390 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit - RANT!! thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 5/2/01 4:38 am
Bryan,

You are acting as if you are personally responsible for determining intent, morality and fairness. I don't know where you get off telling others what their intent was or where your "Rant", is something that is "Needed" at all. You said “I don't believe that there was any sincere interest in finding out the facts, only in whitewashing illegal conduct.” You were speaking about Mat (I use abbreviations for speed) not I, but I was really surprised at the accusatory tenor. Does Mat have a known history of plagiarizing? If so I withdraw my objection. Although I can’t argue with your statements on copy write law I don’t understand the harsh tone.

In regard to your nickname, on my IE 6.0 browser your handle reads as follows: “1fnotter”. The 1 is clearly not an "l" or an "I". This is also how it reads on the subject line of Outlook Express. If this is incorrect please advise me and/or I will respect your right to be referred to by your full nickname. I am Thrandorian but just use a “T” for everyone's ease.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5387 by lfnotter

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Message 5391 of 6769 Reply

Re: Basic 8's of Evil Scott_Gigot
(25/M/De Pere, WI) 5/2/01 6:08 am
Aggravate (or irritate) and subjugate? Usually the villians that I can't stand (in books or movies) are the ones who do their evil a little more subtly. In a recent game, we PC's chased some dude across an entire continent, simply because he was kind of suspicious, lied to us a couple times, and got us to do a few things that weren't nearly as benevolent as we thought.

Oh, and he tried to get us killed once or twice, too...but we could forgive that.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5377 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5392 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit Scott_Gigot
(25/M/De Pere, WI) 5/2/01 6:55 am
I am SO not a lawyer...and I'm not an expert on copyright law. But from what I know, "fair use" is at the core of copyright law. The definition of fair use is being debated constantly (have I got the right to convert my Led Zeppelin CD to .mp3 format without paying Atlantic again?) But, I think it generally acceptable to use small quotes (as one would in a research paper), but not to copy a section wholesale. Exactly what the boundary between "quoting" and "copying" is, I cannot say.

I don't know what the deal with copyrights expiring are, but I know that in many cases the holders decide not to bother to enforce them. Most often, they decide not to care until they see there's money involved...I don't know if you're familiar with the emulator scene, but a lot of old arcade and console games were available openly. Once the manufacturers of those games saw how widely they were being spread, they started to crack down. And now you can buy "classic game packs" from a number of places.

IIRC, whether money is traded only affects how BAD the copyright holder will want to nail you, if they decide to. I remember a case at college where some guy had a server with some Adobe products up for download...he got busted, and they took his computer and fined him. But if he had been SELLING copies of Photoshop, he could have ended up in the gray bar hotel.

Honestly, I doubt transcribing part of an old text and posting it here will get you in jail...and I think we all appreciate . Most likely, if someone has a problem with it, they'd just send out a letter asking to stop.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5380 by mattbcieri

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Message 5393 of 6769 Reply

Re: MacGuffins orgruff
(33/M/The lucky country) 5/2/01 7:25 am
>>Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.<<

Yeah, but this is a Fantasy role playing game and we are the DM's. I prefer to say that every action has a totally blown out of proportion, opposite over-reaction.

There was a line in "The Untouchables"

"They put one of our guys in hospital we put one of theirs in the morgue"

And from the same movie:

"I want this Ness guy DEAD, I want his family DEAD!"


And even though it has no relevance here while I'm thinking about it.

"Whats the matter, can't you talk with a gun in your mouth!"

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5364 by SCA_Bard

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Message 5394 of 6769 Reply

Re: Basic 8's of Evil Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 5/2/01 8:32 am
<>

How about decapitate and defecate? ...castrate? ...deliberate? ...hate?

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5377 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5395 of 6769 Reply

lfnotter Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 5/2/01 9:35 am
Bryan,

It is obvious that you feel very strongly about this issue. There are things I feel pretty strongly about, too. However, your level of hostility toward Matt was unwarranted, if not downright provoking. We are all here for the same reason and a little civility amongst brothers (& sisters) goes a long way toward our strength and effectiveness as a group. I don't oppose your opposition of something. Hell, we debate issues daily. Perhaps we can be a little less insulting in our opposition, however.

Umbratikus


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Message 5396 of 6769 Reply

Re: lfnotter lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/2/01 11:01 am
You're right, I do feel strongly on copyright infringement - but that wasn't what my rant was about. It was about intellectual dishonesty. If you are going to steal someone's intellectual property, have the courtesy to stand up and admit you're a thief.

I had a conversation with Von a bit ago, wherein he expressed the opinion that you, Umbratikus, were a long-time patron of the group and were deserving of being considered one of the moderators in practice if not in title - if that has changed and you now officialy have the title, Mazel Tov! Out of respect for your length of service, I will comply with your request.

To the extent my Nietzscheian, Social Darwinist heart allows, anyway. ;-)

Bryan

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5395 by Umbratikus

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Message 5397 of 6769 Reply

Re: Basic 8's of Evil Kimball_G
(23/M/Charleston) 5/2/01 12:55 pm
To finish filling out the 8 maybe...Annihalate, and Torture (if they all ended with ate, the villian would be to full to complete them all :)

Breakfast: Assimilate
Brunch: Humiliate
Lunch: Amputate
Tea Time: Manipulate
Snack: Terminate
Dinner: Assassinate
Dessert: Annihilate
Mid-Night Snack: Torture

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5394 by Umbratikus

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Message 5398 of 6769 Reply

PC Leadership Calitrojan
5/2/01 1:42 pm
The dilema, Lack of leadership and how to install a new leader. Being a student of American History, you would think I would know this one already...

My group once had a solid and stawart leader... though his character did not want to be in the position he filled it adequately... adding moderation, direction and often seduction to the group decisions. Alas, he retired his first PC (he just wasn't happy with him) and started a new one who once again fell into the leadership role, alas he died... tragically.

Now the group is headless, as the defacto party leader refuses to take the reigns. He does not feel his character (or any of his past characters) has the leadership quality. I agree with him... in real life he is very managerial... but at the table he likes to be the underling, constantly passing the blame up the ladder to the decision makers (if their was one). There are obvious choices for leadership in the party, the elven ranger who has survived three assassination attempts from evil clerics (all of which were killed in a tragic displacer beast mishap), the gnomish wizard, long in tooth and big in nose he is constantly bringing the party into exciting situations, but mostly out of me hitting him with circumstances that cause the excitement... thus far he has failed to grasp the reins when offered to him, and finally (the NPC's main choice... though not the best one) is the halfling fighter of some fame. He is srong, respected physically by the other party members, and usually has good ideas and thinks things through, the problem is he is run by a Japanese woman in an otherwise male dominated group. (my wife recently joined, making her more comfortable) It is my understanding that in Japanese society women take deferntial roles to men, and she falls into this pattern often... especially when a gaming leadership is required. so what do I do? How do I get one of my three candidates to take the reigns and move the party SOMEWHERE along one of the plot lines? RIght now they are in an endless circling pattern around the juncture of three of the plotlines in the world... and won't move off of it.


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Message 5399 of 6769 Reply

Re: PC Leadership SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 5/2/01 2:39 pm
The problem of PCs who make good leaders vs. players who make good leaders is one I've seen a lot, usually as a player. I like your version of the problem (PC a leader, player not) better than the ones I've had (PC might be a leader, player isn't but thinks s/he is).

I'd use the NPCs to force the issue. If they like the halfling fighter and look up to him, have them walk right up and do their best Sidekick Recap: "So we can do A, B, or C. What'll it be, boss?" If the PC starts to back off and pass the buck, the NPC can just get more insistent. "Look, with all respect to the learned wizard, I joined this group so I could bust heads with the great halfling fighter! I'm doing what he says! So, boss, whaddya want us to do?" I'd use a term like 'boss,' 'chief,' 'captain,' or whatever you like when the NPC refers to the PC, so the player gets the idea that this guy sees her PC as the leader.

If the player manages to make a decision, the NPC begins to enact it immediately, reinforcing the idea that this PC is the leader. If another PC tries to dissuade the NPC, the short answer is, "Sorry, no time to talk. I got orders from the boss."

Some players don't feel that they have the right to make decisions for the group, and that they should discuss everything with everybody and come to a consensus. Very nice, but it takes forever. If the NPCs show that they not only like someone making decisions for them, but that they expect it, and they expect it from YOU, the player might relax enough to realize that it's OK to be pushy sometimes.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5398 by Calitrojan

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Message 5400 of 6769 Reply

Regio lycantherope_69
5/2/01 3:04 pm
I have a fairly large library of RPG books, from several systems, and occasionaly I mix the rules a bit. One rule I have found, and liked comes from Ars Magica. It's called Regio. The appeal to this idea is thus: You have several different worlds layed out in the same space, which are connected by gates that may or may not be visable to the PC's. Therefore, unless the PC's are keeping EXTREMELY detailed maps, and are HIGHLY observant, it will be near impossable for them to find their way back out of the regio they have entered. In each regio the environment will be slightly altered; where a tower once stood, you may have a minarette in the next regio, a monolith in the next, a cairn in the one following, and a flagpole in the one after that, but the general layout of everything will be similar. If you are very subtle about it, it may take a while before the PC's realise they aren't in Kansas anymore! :p


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Message 5401 of 6769 Reply

Re: Dungeon Master's Design Kit vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/2/01 3:30 pm
"we are certainly not in a livingroom."

That is true, but when I made the statement about telling us as if we were in your livingroom (#5329) I was not thinking that you would copy the material verbatum. I was thinking more of a REVIEW and your comments, pro or con, towards the different sections. Much like one would give to a visiting friend sitting on your sofa.

To prevent you from any anxiety about a call from an attorney I have taken it upon myself to delete the posts containing the copied material. I did leave post #5336 in, as this is just an overview of the Dungeon Master's Design Kit.

Sorry for any misunderstandings...
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5376 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5402 of 6769 Reply

Re: Basic 8's of Evil thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 5/2/01 3:54 pm
Hey Kimball,
Nice. Could this be what the Devils Daytimer looks like?

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5397 by Kimball_G

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Message 5403 of 6769 Reply

Re: lfnotter thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 5/2/01 4:16 pm
Bryan,

Once again you must resort to name calling. You wrote: "If you are going to steal someone's intellectual property, have the courtesy to stand up and admit you're a thief."

What a sanctimonious animal gluteus you are being! After admitting you use Warez programs! I personally use demos, officially approved by the manufacturer myself and consider even temporary use of a Warez obtained program to propagate this illegal practice (organized theft on-line). If you believe “so strongly” then my friend, you should be ashamed to admit to contributing to the practice.

I am sick of this subject but more sick of listening to your hypocrisy. IMHHO (thanks for the new abbrev. Midge) you are not acting like a partner here, nor giving friendly advise. I believe that's what were here for isn’t it?

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5396 by lfnotter

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Message 5404 of 6769 Reply

Troll Slayer lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 5/2/01 4:23 pm
(Since this sword is kind of location specific, looking at the map I posted in the club may help.)

Troll Slayer
Bastard Sword +2/+4 vs. Trolls
Int: 17 Wis: 22 Cha: 19 Alignment: Lawful Good
Languages: Read/Speak: Alexandrian (First, Second, and Third Cycle), Elven (First, Second, and Third Cycle), Read Magic
Powers:
Whenever a Troll approaches within 240’ the sword begins to vibrate. When a Troll gets within 120’, the sword begins keening, getting louder as the troll gets closer, until it is nearly earsplitting when the Troll is at hand. When the Troll approaches within 10’, the blade of Troll Slayer bursts into holy blue fire. The sound has different effects on Trolls and non-trolls. Trolls find the noise to be painful, yet entrancing at the same time. They are attracted to the noise, seeking out the source of the noise, but they are also distracted by the pain the noise causes them. When they fight the wielder of Troll Slayer, they suffer a one penalty to their attack rolls and saving throws. When non-trolls hear the keening, they become invigorated and focused, gaining one to their attack rolls and saving throws.
When the wielder of Troll Slayer fights Trolls, the holy blue fire causes it to act like a +4 Sword of Wounding. The Trolls cannot regenerate the damage done by Troll Slayer, and they takes one hit point per round, per wound until the wounds are bound. In addition to the wounding power, when Troll Slayer is used against a Troll, one half of all hit point damage inflicted upon the Troll is bestowed upon the wielder.
History:
Troll Slayer started out as Branson Atwood, High Priest of Anhur, and the founder of Silk Gate. When Atwood first created the town in 533 FC, the location seemed perfect. While the Free Cities did not exist yet, and as such, there was no Silk Road, the land was fertile, and seemed quite peaceful. However, two months after the founding of the town, the “breeding” season started. Trolls do not breed sexually as most creatures do. For one tenday per year (The second tenday of the month of Isis), if you rip a troll in half, and keep the halves separated, they will regenerate into two complete, whole, trolls. (Note: never use a blade barrier on a troll during this tenday.) Every year all the trolls of the troll marshes enter into a frenzy and tear each other apart. The different pieces are then allowed to regenerate into new trolls. However, there is a limited food supply, so the extra members of the species are pushed out of the swamp. Every year a massive army of trolls, usually numbering in the hundreds, occasionally thousands, spread north in search of food.
When this troll army encountered the new town, it was a massacre. The trolls were eventually driven away using the town’s entire supply of oil, but over half the town was destroyed, and more than half of the people were killed, including Atwood’s wife and three children. Atwood took up the holy quest to rid the world of trolls. For the next thirty years he ventured into the troll marshes, killing trolls and burning large tracks of the swamp with greek fire and Wands of Fireballs.
In his seventy-fifth year Atwood fell ill. He begged Anhur to allow him to continue his quest. Anhur collected his soul and placed it into a sword, which has been passed from generation to generation among the Paladins of the Burning Order. The bearer of Troll Slayer may adventure afield, but must return to Silk Gate at the beginning of the month of Isis to combat the returning troll horde.


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Message 5405 of 6769 Reply

Campaign Creation 5- Mystery III vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/2/01 4:23 pm
Now lets talk Motive.

Motive is the WHY...
This is not just about the NPC's motive for killing someone, but also his motive for everything else. (Why did Keshin travel to Edinhollow? Why was Talinbrook searching for the Anvil of Time? Or why has the Merchant Guild stop shipments to Ferenczia?)

Having the PCs looking into the motivations of others can give them clues as to WHAT might they be doing, WHERE they may be doing it, and WHEN they might try to do it...

>>Keshin's Motive found...Keshin has gone to get help to kill the Baron of Gevonshire: a. Will be looking for the Baron and an opening? b. If not Edinhollow, then Gevonshire? c. When he is near him and the Baron is alone? These are just questions to the PCs, for the exact what, where, and when is the start of further investigations.

Looking deeper into the motive can bring more light to the situation...Why is Keshan wanting to kill the Baron?

Having the DM realize, and notes, the motivations of his NPCs, as he writes up his campaign, (and giving the Players the knowledge that following them leads to understanding the NPCs and their actions) will help in solving mysteries. Or at least give them clues as to the what, where, and whens. Know thine enemy!

Motivations can be; short or long term goals or plans, a desire to give aid, take something, accomplish a specific task, hand down judgement and punishment, on a whim or calculated in detail, or any other action or reaction within the sphere of the human conscienceness. But be aware that to satisfy one motive does NOT leave the individual immobil or without the ability to create for himself another goal in life.

>>PCs unable to stop Keshan from killing Baron. They don't just walk away. Not only do they now have a stronger motivation themselves but what, where, and when will Keshan do next?

So be sure to include 'motive' clues and hints for the players to pick up on.
Von Romig


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Message 5406 of 6769 Reply

CC 5- Example vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/2/01 5:04 pm
Returning to the PCs from previous examples...

>>Now that they have a good idea that the 'ex-adventurers' joined the thief's guild, Poison Hand', they must find out why. So they travel back to the only man who seems to have known them all...<<

PC #3: "Good sir Reazic, why did you and the others break up?"
Reazic: "We had been spending months looking for some scroll Ulmarak said would stop the Ezu- Beetle Plague of Jarr Province. When we found it some thief's guild stole it...and I WAS NOT going to go up against no thief's guild. The rest of them argued but eventually they came to their senses and we all decided to retire on the loot we made in our travels."
PC #1: "What guild stole the scroll?"
Reazic: "I don't know...Nobb said who it was back then, but I've forgotten...sorry."
PC #1; "You mentioned before that Nobb had joined a guild...was it the Poison Hand? Or perhaps the one that stole the scroll."
Reazic: "That name doesn't ring a bell, but I remember him saying how the group was small or something...and I doubt the guild who stole the scroll would let him then join...hmmm?"
PC #3: "Possibly not...Did they go off together?"
Reazic: "No. They each went and retired in this village or that one..."
PC #3: "Do you remember which villages?"

>>He does and gives them the list... Putting all that they have in their notes together, the players have come to the conclusion (after much debate) that the ex-adventurers had gone off to join small units of the Poison Hand Guild to get on the inside. They were still searching for the scroll, but because they left the goody-Reazic behind they beleive that either, the scroll was not what Ulmarak said it was and/or they plan to use it in an nasty way. Got to find out what that scroll really is...<<

Now the players have the other group's motive and can use that to move on them further.
Von Romig


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Message 5407 of 6769 Reply

Re: Troll Slayer vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/2/01 5:22 pm
A great idea for a weapon! And I love that it has a history behind it...most magic items of such power or focus in other games I was playing in never had this.

I have had only ONE magic sword in all of my gaming as a DM and it was a +2 Ogreslayer. The plus was only verses Ogres, and it was given to the last follower of a dying god. Much like a 'farewell and thanks' gift from the deity. But Corrinz used that opportunity to become a warrior priest to his patron god...establishing followers and thus returning power to the Deity. So you can say that the player created the history and Corrinz the Ogreslayer is one of my major NPCs now.
Von Romig

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5404 by lordneodig

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Message 5408 of 6769 Reply

Re: lfnotter lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/2/01 5:35 pm
If you are sick of the subject you shouldn't start another round. I take exception to being called a hypocrit; I stated up front that I use and have used warez software and I take responsability for that choice. I also stated that I've gone legit on software I've decided to use regularly. That is not hypocracy. It would be hypocritical if I were saying I DIDN'T use warez. You have a problem with my choice to use what amounts to fully functional, non-limited demos? I understand that. My wife works for a software company and I understand the publisher's perspective very well indeed. I still make the choice to use unlicensed software, and I accept the Karma for that choice.

Saying "have the courtesy to stand up and admit you're a thief." isn't name calling. It's a generalized statement of principle. If I had singled you or another person out and said, "You are a thief", that would be name calling.

I said I would respect Umbratikus's request and get off the subject. Will you as well? Or is it your wish to initiate serious hostilities at this time? If it is not, good. This ends here. If it is, good. Bring it on.

This choice is yours.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5403 by thrandorian

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Message 5409 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 5/2/01 7:02 pm
I think I get what you are saying sca_bard. I love good villains. In my humble opinon a good villain does not see himself as a villain. A maverick? Maybe. Unorthodoxed? A bit. A good problem solver? Definately. Good examples of good villains would be Marvels "Magneto". His solution to the the mutant human delema is to destroy the human element in order to make it safe for mutants. He is a very noble and a very passionate character. Histories "Hitler" again. He saw a problem. He found a solution to said problem. Eventually his path may have ended up with world peace. If he his side had won WWII, he might have been hailed as a tragic heroe type figure. Not the villain he is known as today. Thank the Gods. He lost. Captain "Nemo from 20k Leagues under the Sea" Yep another great villain for obvious reasons. These people did not wake up one day and say, "Hey wouldn't it be great to reak some havoc. They grew into the people they became. They did what they felt was neccesary in order to gain the results they saw as favorible. Have any of you ever done something a bit unorthodox. Something that could be classified as not good. Something you feel a little remorse about. Did you weigh out the options and the consequences of said deceion before hand. Did the ends justify the means even though you regretted the necesary steps you had to take in order to get to the results. I know I have. In knowing this I realize that we all have villain potential. Yet us being who we are must be confident enough to know that what we do is right. Even if sometimes it is wrong.

"People don't consider me crazy because of my thoughts and perceptions. They consider me crazy because I choose to share them." Shad Corliss 2000.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5371 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5410 of 6769 Reply

Re: Role-Playing: Romance krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 5/2/01 7:07 pm
Sorry midgetoo2us I wrote to you and named you SCA_Bard. Could you ever forgive me?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5371 by midgetoo2us

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Message 5411 of 6769 Reply

DMDesignKit - RANT!! example of Villainy krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 5/2/01 7:16 pm
Who is the Villain. It depends on who you are. Do you not want to pay for a good product then the ranter is the Villain. Do you want to support the producer of the good product thus keeping a good company in business. Then the Distributer is the Villain.... This is Kewl.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5382 by lfnotter

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Message 5412 of 6769 Reply

Re: DMDesignKit - RANT!! example of Vill lfnotter
(36/M/Thornton, CO) 5/2/01 7:32 pm
I get to be a Villian?!?!

Hoody-Hoo!

Let's see, what should my first act of voluptuous evil be.....

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5411 by krovar1972

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Message 5413 of 6769 Reply

Re: lfnotter krovar1972
(29/M/Peterborough) 5/2/01 7:34 pm
Actually I thought what Bryan brought up was good. I'm tire of people who cany coat there opinoins. His statements lead to some great research in copyrighting. In all we are all a bit smarter in regaurds to this subject. I hope there was no hard feelings though. We should be glad that a good point was made with no bloodshed. I wish to thank everyone who has been involved in this string....

"People don't consider me crazy because of my thoughts and perceptions. They consider me crazy because I choose to share them." Shad Corliss

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5395 by Umbratikus

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Message 5414 of 6769 Reply

You're a Half-What? vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/2/01 8:13 pm
I just got the books for 3rd Edition and finally found some time to start reading them...

Just now got through the discriptions of the races and noticed something I haven't thought before...

Why is there only half-elves and half-orcs? With the number of possible combinations, and there subsequential advantages and detriments, why are these not brought up? A human-gnome combo or a dwarven-elf?

One can easily say that maybe their chemistry is non-compatable...well then where are the Elf-orcs?

Assuming they are compatable and love runs wild, what would you say would make an interesting combination? What Attributes would they have?

(Those I find to be well thought out will be added to my world, just as you have descibed.)
Von Romig


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Message 5415 of 6769 Reply

Re: You're a Half-What? x_zone15
(M/New Ulm, MN) 5/2/01 9:08 pm
It tells about these other combinations in the 3rd Ed DM guide, but doesn't go into particulars about their stats and such. I guess a reason for this is that the half-elves and the half-orcs are the most common combinations. Some combos make no sense at all, like a half-halfling, or an orc-halfling (Even though that happened in the book Orcs!). I am debating throwing in some half-Dwarfs, here is my take on there stats:
+1 constitution, -1 charisma
detect sloping stonework 10% of the time
+1 saves versus spells
half the original racial skill bonuses
Size: M (from 5' to 6' feet tall)
+1 to skills each level (as humans)
Favored Class: Any

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5414 by vonromig

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Message 5416 of 6769 Reply

Help on a magical item the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden
5/3/01 3:03 am
My players have reached the part of my campaign were they each reviece a magical weapon that best suits them. The way my campaign is going to work out, is that the weapon will be enhanced four more times before the end of the campaign. So they need to have effects that will start out not too powerful, but grow into something pretty awesome.

I have all of my players' weapons figured out except for one. He will be getting a pair of spiked gauntlets, yet I dont' know what type of cool effect I could give them. They will be a bonus to attack and damage, but each weapon also has an extra effect. I want it to be something besides the same ol same ol magical weapon that has fire or ice properties. I want it to be something unique and interesting.

Any suggestions guys? Remember, the magical effect of the pair of gauntlets will be enhanced four more times. Oh and the characters are evil, so if it can be an evil effect, that would be cool too.

thx 4 tha help
-Drizzt-


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Message 5417 of 6769 Reply

Re: lfnotter thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 5/3/01 5:46 am
lfnotter,
You wrote: "I said I would respect Umbratikus's request and get off the subject. Will you as well? Or is it your wish to initiate serious hostilities at this time? If it is not, good. This ends here. If it is, good. Bring it on.
This choice is yours."

If the choice is mine I say end it here, it's boring, but you make an aggressive or challenging comment each time you respond. If this is a threat be more specific. I will respond in similar fashion. I AM NOT INTIMIDATED AT ALL. Otherwise have the last word after this but just try not to threaten or insult.

T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5408 by lfnotter

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Message 5418 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help on a magical item shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 5/3/01 6:26 am
>> He will be getting a pair of spiked gauntlets, yet I dont' know what type of cool effect I could give them. They will be a bonus to attack and damage, but each weapon also has an extra effect.

How about bonuses to grappling (a rarely used, and somewhat effective, form of combat) or (if you're playing 3e) automatic "Improved Unarmed Strike" (and related, as time goes on) feat?

Maybe a chance to effect victims with various "Power Word"-style spells?

Maybe polymorph into certain claw-attack using creatures once (or more) per day .. perhaps bear, tiger, umber hulk, young dragon?

Maybe a "dispel magic" style power, at first it could only effect weak spell-effects temporarily, and eventually, it could effect major items permanently (depending on your campaign, perhaps even destroy an artifact at the exchange of this power forever)?

some ideas ..

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5416 by the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden

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Message 5419 of 6769 Reply

Re: You're a Half-What? Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 5/3/01 8:55 am
It is a simple matter of biology. If you try and mate a rabbit with a cat, you will get nothing (except perhaps shredded rabbit). One cannot fertilize the other. Humans and Orcs seem to be able to mate with more other species than other races. Although humans can mate with orcs or elves, elves and orcs are not compatible with each other. Thus you have human-orc combinations and human-elf combinations, but no orc-elf combinations. Based on the 2e cosmology, Humans can mate with elves, orcs, and ogres. Orcs can mate with humans, ogres, and goblin races (which I interpret as goblins, hobgoblins, norkers and bugbears). This is just the way it is. Orcs can't mate with dwarves for the same reason that cats can't mate with rabbits. Their gametes are just not compatible.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5414 by vonromig

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Message 5420 of 6769 Reply

Re: You're a Half-What? Umbratikus
(36/M/Central Ohio) 5/3/01 9:02 am
I had an NPC villain once who was an orc-hobgoblin mix. He basically had the stats of a hobgoblin, but looked like a bigger-than-average orc with dark, almost black skin and bigger teeth. He was stronger than most orcs and used his uniqueness and his strentgh to gain a position of leadership in the tribe. I was actually surprised at how intimidated the 1st and 2nd level PCs were by this hybrid orc. He really wasn't very tough, no tougher than a hobgoblin, but I played him with bravado and he scared the players silly.

Moral: Sometimes just giving an old familiar monster an unfamiliar twist is enough to throw your players and help keep your adventures fresh.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5419 by Umbratikus

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Message 5421 of 6769 Reply

Re: lfnotter madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 5/3/01 9:42 am
Thank you, thrandorian.

Yes, I'm sure I speak for many of the active members here when I say an ongoing flame war of this nature will not be tolerated for too long.

Let's put this behind us here. If any more "bringing it on" needs to be done, kindly do it via e-mail and let's get on to the business of DMing.

Thanks.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5417 by thrandorian

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Message 5422 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help on a magical item madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 5/3/01 12:18 pm
Gauntlets of the Ghoul

These appear to be tiger claw knuckles assembled into gloves by stitched together dried bits of leather. In actuality, they have been stitched together from flayed ghoul flesh.

Once per day, they may transfer a Ghoul Touch as the 2nd Level Wizard Spell (DC16).

These gauntlets have the vague stench of death about them.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5416 by the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden

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Message 5423 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help on a magical item phinneas_phogg
(242/M/Teratrin) 5/3/01 2:28 pm
I like the idea, but I would suggest that you include the "ghoul touch" as a side effect on any critical hit.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5422 by madteuton

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Message 5424 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help on a magical item pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 5/3/01 2:55 pm
"Gauntlets of the Ghoul
(stuff deleted)
These gauntlets have the vague stench of death about them. "

This is where you use Big Bees "Ghoul - be - gone" spray. Drives unearthly stenches from magic items or your money back. Six gold pieces at your local Wizard's Supply Store!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5422 by madteuton

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Message 5425 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help on a magical item madteuton
(32/M/Keyport, NJ) 5/3/01 2:58 pm
LOL! Or, you can get the washcloth of Sweet Air.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5424 by pirates_life_for_me

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Message 5426 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help on a magical item dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/muiltiverse) 5/3/01 4:34 pm
here's and idea gauntlets of the shocking finger!!
level 1 power shocking grasp 3rd level 1x day per level
level 2 power paralyazing touch 1 x day per level
level 3 4th level lighting bolt 1 x week per level
level 4 imunnity to electiricty

the gauntlets of Ravenloth
cursed can't be removed except by holy word spell
level powers
(1) chill touch
(2) vampiric touch
(3) control undead as priest of same level
(4)animate dead as priest of same level
how are these

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5416 by the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden

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Message 5427 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help on a magical item lordneodig
(29/M/Hobart, Indiana) 5/3/01 5:51 pm
I did this on the fly, so I didn't flesh out the backstory or description. I also didn't put the bonus to hit or damage, leaving that to the DM.

Gauntlets of Doom
Level One: Once per day the spikes will ooze poison for 10 rounds. Victims that are hit must make a fort save DC 20 or be paralyzed for 2d6 rounds
Wearer receives Protection From Good (PHB Pg. 240) when worn. The spell functions at 5th level.

Level Two: On a critical hit all damage inflicted is drained from victim and bestowed upon wearer. This will not take the wearer above his or her maximum hit points.
Magic Circle Vs Good (PHB Pg. 223) when worn. The spell functions at 10th level.

Level Three: Wearer can cast Blasphemy (PHB Pg. 180-1) once per day at 16th level of ability.
On a critical hit the victim suffers one negative level and one temporary level is bestowed upon wearer for ten rounds. The victim is allowed a fort save (DC 25). The wearer can choose between the hit point drain or level drain.

Level Four: User can cast Unholy Aura (PHB Pg. 268) once per day at 20th level of ability.
The spikes may now be commanded to ooze a fatal poison for 10 rounds once per day. The victim can make a fort save (DC 30). Failure means the victim loses 10% of his maximum hit point total each round for ten rounds.
On a critical hit, if the wearer wishes, the gauntlets will cast Destruction (PHB Pg. 192) on the victim. The spell is cast at 20th level of ability. However, if this function is used, the gauntlets become dormant for 8 hours.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5416 by the_dark_elf_drizzt_do_urden

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Message 5428 of 6769 Reply

Fun with the treasure tables thrandorian
(39/M/Portland Oregon) 5/3/01 5:52 pm
I tried something once that got my players extra-exited about finding treasure.

I often roll for treasure instead of pre-generating. I told the players that I would add a special feature to the list. If a roll of 00 came up I would give them the answer to any question they might wish to ask. Even an inappropriate one from a role-play standpoint. They spent an hour or so crafting their question for maximum return and then anxiously awaited their lucky roll. It took 15-20 evenings or so before they got it but every roll took on a lot of additional excitement for those 15-20 weeks (screaming at the dice and calling upon the deity for divine rolling skills etc). They asked a major question about their arch-enemies plans but it didn’t unbalance the game (too much) and the players felt like it was “Senior skip day” or something along those lines. I only did this once but you might consider it. It was fun, if hard to justify from a purists standpoint.


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Message 5429 of 6769 Reply

Re: Help on a magical item SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 5/3/01 6:05 pm
A GM in one game I've played in gave a PC spiked gauntlets with a vampiric touch ability.

Take a 100 hp dwarven battleragers... with 18/00 strength... and 1d4+ Str Bonus spiked gloves that give him back half of all the damage he does in curing. The guy was indestructible in melee.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 5427 by lordneodig

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Message 5430 of 6769 Reply

Campaign Creation 6- Mystery IV vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/3/01 7:26 pm
Now lets discuss Informational Sources...

1) Bartenders
The most over worked person in the game. A good one serves cold beer, keeps his ears opened, and his mouth closed...until the PCs show up. Info gained from him will be broad in nature as he only hears bits and pieces of conversation. Due to the fact that he could misunderstand or mix the facts of what he hears this could be full of false or misleading info. He specializes on common knowledge and rumors, and quite lacking in the secretive (no one talks about the really good stuff in a full tavern, unless he's stupid).

2) Oracles and Seers
Very rare to find TRUE soothsayers (in my world) as most turn out to be con artists. Even with a true oracle or seer the reply to ones answer will be in a riddle-like form. In some worlds the oracle (or seer) will want the questioner to perform a task benefitial to the oracles Deity before giving an answer.

3) Sages
These very wise and learned men are even rarer then the Oracles to find...as they are constantly wandering the lands in research expeditions. They know almost nothing about the activities of individuals or small groups but can give you all the details you want on any gerenal topic (geology, chemistry, history, lore, etc). Very good at giving info on 'lost' relics and artifacts, for if they don't know it from memory (their field of expertise) then they will almost always have an idea where the info can be found.

4) Libraries and Archives
A library will be full of common and uncommon books, scrolls, maps, reference materials, etc. Good for minor research into the local society and its past (helps PCs in foriegn lands). The Archives holds rare to very rare works of literary masterpieces; the original ancient tomes and books written by the geniuses of past eras. Permission needed by curator or official to use, but excellent source of 'forgotten' info...last known place of The Eye of Esylonia, the actual blueprints to the Ruined Hall of Ganthroll, etc. Not only must one be able to read (not a given in my world) but also have knowledge or access to other languages to 'explore' here, because not only are these books written in the language of the author but of his time's dialect. Researching properly to have a chance (die roll %) to find the info being sought takes time (pluses to roll on time spent). Days, weeks, or more depending on the size of the institution and the obscurity of what is being researched.

5) Monastry
In my world...These massive fortified archives not only maintains an army of monks to help you find what your looking for, but also to defend the knowledge gathered there. This they do out of service to their god, Darmenarkus the Wise. Any info they have is yours at a very steep price in gold (to cover their costs) or an exchange of some info...this will be given as a quest to the PCs by the present High Scholar. The info to give will be such that it will take an adventure to accomplish. Since most Monastries are thousands of years old the volumn of info contained give a great chance of learning ancient knowledge, without all the reading (the monks find it for you). But their worthless for gerenal or common knowledge, an individual, or current events.
Von Romig


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Message 5431 of 6769 Reply

Campaign Creation 6- Mystery IV cont. vonromig
(35/M/Pennsylvania) 5/3/01 8:01 pm
Continued..

6) The 'Lost' Book