Posts 3501-4000

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Message 3501 of 6731 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 11/29/00 4:23 pm
Me too, I'm keen to swap notes with anyone. I'm pretty sure none of my players are part of this message group. Email me:
orgruff@yahoo.co.uk

PS I do have quite a bit of original and vaguely plagerised stuff to swap. (Mostly loosely based on books or official modules or downloaded free from the net.)

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millennium

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3499 by Calitrojan

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Message 3502 of 6731 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited tormentcha
(40/F/Alexandria, VA) 11/29/00 5:51 pm
I was going to go ahead and email off list but my email just died so I'll join the others in asking for a copy here. Sorry folks... tormentcha@hotmail.com

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3501 by orgruff

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Message 3503 of 6731 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/29/00 6:38 pm
I'd like a copy of that article in word format...it will save me the trouble of typing it myself.

Thanks

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3499 by Calitrojan

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Message 3504 of 6731 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited Sir_Bluetooth
(21/M/Kearney, NE) 11/29/00 8:59 pm
I hate to fill up the list with this too, but I cannot find Calitrojan's e-mail address in his profile...

I would also like a copy of that file, and to be added to your list if it would not be too much trouble. My address is Sir_Bluetooth@yahoo.com


Thanks,
Bluetooth

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3499 by Calitrojan

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Message 3505 of 6731 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited Journeyman72
(22/M/Borderlands) 11/30/00 11:49 am
That would be cool. I love getting new articles and am on a number of mailing lists for some. If you could send to me at Journeyman72@yahoo.com I would appreciate it.
That goes for anyone who may have cool stuff to share or what not.
I am interested mainly in 3ed but i love to read everything.
Thanks
Journeyman

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3499 by Calitrojan

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Message 3506 of 6731 Reply

Trivial Matters Calitrojan
11/30/00 12:10 pm
My e-mail address is sansom@iex.com or calitrojan@yahoo.com use either... now we won't have to fill up the board. I hav gone ahead and added the list I have thus far to my regular e-mailing, and you will recieve any transcribed articles I happen to send out.

Please excuse the quality of the article, as my players and I are quite familiar and I don't bother proofreading the things I transcribe for them.


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Message 3507 of 6731 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/30/00 1:12 pm
Go ahead and add me to the list, too.

Thanks
Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3499 by Calitrojan

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Message 3508 of 6731 Reply

Thankfull Dragon dragon_lord_yu
(18/M/Belgrade,YU!) 11/30/00 5:42 pm
I got your message.Haven't read it ,yet.Just wanted to thank you very much.10x

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3506 by Calitrojan

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Message 3509 of 6731 Reply

new as a DM vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 11/30/00 8:12 pm
I am about to start my very first game as a DM. I am very excited. I have spent months working on adventures and maps and NPC's. I will also be playing with a group of very good players who will be patient with me.

But I do need a little help. I need some recomendations on puzzles, riddles, etc. to throw in my game. I have a few, and they are all original so noone can come into the game knowing the answer.

Anyone with suggestions feel free to email me at
vahjra@yahoo.com

thanks

vah


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Message 3510 of 6731 Reply

Re: new as a DM Calitrojan
12/1/00 12:20 am
I tend to be very involved with my puzzles. Recently a player joined my group who can crack my cryptographs in a matter of days instead of the months it was taking them before. I have created new alphabets using symbols and written messages in those, sometimes using a coded within a code, for instance, using my new alphabet and then a three letter displacement.

You might want to try going to the library and checking out a riddle book, they have some pretty ocmplex riddles.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3509 by vahjra

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Message 3511 of 6731 Reply

Re: new as a DM Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/1/00 7:41 am
There is also a lot of riddles and puzzles out there on the net. Poke around a few RPG sites out there and I'll bet you'll find some stuff you can use.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3509 by vahjra

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Message 3512 of 6731 Reply

Re: new as a DM SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/1/00 10:11 am
There are Yahoo! catagories for Puzzles, Riddles, and Mazes. (I stole a web-posted maze as a crypt floorplan for this past week's game). A search for "traps, netbook" will lead you to one or more of the compilations of traps ranging from killer to mildly embarrassing.

There are also some really nifty, obscure riddles from Anglo-Saxon England; try searching Amazon.com or your local bookstore for titles along the lines of "Anglo-Saxon Riddles" or "Exeter Book Riddles." But be fair... there's one on a barnacle goose that a modern PC would never get, since we don't think of barnacle geese hatching from barnacles.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3511 by Umbratikus

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Message 3513 of 6731 Reply

Re: new as a DM spellmaster15
(17/M/York, PA) 12/1/00 8:00 pm
yeah, those are all good suggestions....

what do you guys think makes a good DM??

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3512 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3514 of 6731 Reply

Re: new as a DM sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 12/2/00 10:47 am
Patience... Every good DM needs a great deal of patience with his players, or he will never make it through the game...

Sanguinarius

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3513 by spellmaster15

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Message 3515 of 6731 Reply

Re: making a good DM Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 12/2/00 12:01 pm
Patience as stated previously...

Ablity to think quickly.....trying to stay one step ahead of your players.

Going with the flow......the players may not always do what you expect them to.

Being organized.....not having to stop the flow of the game, to look for this rule, or that table, or those maps I made last week......

There are many things that could be addressed, but if you and your players are both enjoying the game.....I think that is the most important aspect of being a good DM.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3513 by spellmaster15

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Message 3516 of 6731 Reply

Re: new as a DM Calitrojan
12/2/00 12:43 pm
You know, I think confidence in yourself at the table. That is what makes you a good DM. What makes a good campaign is different. I think my campaign is good because of my NPCs, my plot lines, and of course the way my players react to situations... darn buggers have gotten it into their heads that they have to know every name of every shop keeper in the market square... jus tlast night I ran out of names! (I compile a list of 20 random names in the margin of my scrap paper to throw at them, apparently one of them wanted to see how many names I could come up with...it was funny, but it also slowed down the stroy. Though that in itself was good also.)

ANyway..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3513 by spellmaster15

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Message 3517 of 6731 Reply

3rd edition Hobgoblins Calitrojan
12/2/00 12:48 pm
I discovered last night that my hobgoblins are no longer the match they once were. My 2nd edition hobgoblins and goblins were feared by any character under 5th level... last night a party of 1st and 2nd level character waded through them like they were soft butter... (Yeah on guy got down to 1 HP twice and they used all their spells up, but that is not what I gauge it by). THey just held no challenge... for all my tactics and scheming... ugh!

I enjoy modeling my goblinoids after the Viet Cong, using guerilla warfare, missle weapons, and hiding in the brush to pop up and take down the enemy when least expected... but these 3rd edition hobgoblins don't stand a chance against a party of PCs... now orcs on the other hand, WHOAH! I never liked 2nd edition orcs as a monster, but I think they are my new favorite enemy, those greataxes and making headlong rushes into melee make them a threat to even 4th level characters...

Anyone else having woes with their favorite monsters turned pansy?


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Message 3518 of 6731 Reply

Re: new as a DM dragon_lord_yu
(18/M/Belgrade,YU!) 12/2/00 4:15 pm
I agree with all,but I don't think that much of it is hard to achieve.Anyone can organise his notes so he can use them uickly,no matter how stupid he is.Patience is always needed,but not necessery,cos it could bring new excitement to the players if they know that their DM won't tolerate stupidity,or slowing the game. Confidence IS needed,but what use it is if you don't have the skills that really divide us from mere mortals:Improvisation combinated with unending imagination.
My own xp has tought me that,and never has failed me.

By My Scales...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3516 by Calitrojan

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Message 3519 of 6731 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited kel_anara
(29/F/Calgary, Canada) 12/2/00 6:01 pm
I too would like a copy of this article. Please send to cleo_tal@yahoo.com

Thanks in advance

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3500 by dragon_lord_yu

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Message 3520 of 6731 Reply

Re: 3rd edition Hobgoblins Cayzle
(37/Kingdoms and Honor) 12/3/00 12:00 am
Remember, hobgoblins in the MM are first level warriors. Try boosting class level and the monsters become more challenging.

Cayzle

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3517 by Calitrojan

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Message 3521 of 6731 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited watts_311
(24/M/Saint Clair Shores, MI) 12/3/00 2:08 pm
please send me a copy as well watts_311@prodigy.net

thanx

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3519 by kel_anara

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Message 3522 of 6731 Reply

DM needed in Adelaide!! orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 12/3/00 11:55 pm
I currently run a game for some players who want to get their girlfriends involved. I am unable to commit any more time to playing than I am now and could not handle any more players in my current game. Anyway these people asked me if I knew anybody who would want to DM them. (apparently there are six of them) I know two of the guys well and have met the girls. The ones I do know are aged between 19 and 26 and seem like OK people. The guys who have been playing in my game for a few months now and I know they are not idiots.

So if you are still interested in getting a game going I can get you in touch with them.

Thanks in advance Orgruff


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Message 3523 of 6731 Reply

Re: new as a DM Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/4/00 7:52 am
Imagination and story telling ability (ability to convey) are good atributes to have as a DM.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3513 by spellmaster15

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Message 3524 of 6731 Reply

Re: DM needed in Adelaide!! madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/4/00 11:55 am
Orgruff, you must insist you DM, but only if the girls agree to "strip melee" in the game. Instead of h.p.s the ladies would have to remove articles of clothing.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3522 by orgruff

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Message 3525 of 6731 Reply

Re: DM needed in Adelaide!! SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/4/00 12:14 pm
madteuton wrote:

<< Orgruff, you must insist you DM, but only if the girls agree to "strip melee" in the game.
Instead of h.p.s the ladies would have to remove articles of clothing. >>

Fascinating concept. Perhaps I shall insist my all-male party adopt it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3524 by madteuton

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Message 3526 of 6731 Reply

Re: DM needed in Adelaide!! madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/4/00 12:16 pm
You go, girlfriend!

;-p

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3525 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3527 of 6731 Reply

Re: DM needed in Adelaide!! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/4/00 2:30 pm
Co-ed nude D&D. Now there is something I haven't tried yet. Be kinda difficult to stay focused on the game, I would imagine.

DM: "At the foot of the bed you see a large breast..er..er chest..er...box.. Oh never mind."

P.S. No Rod of Lordly Might jokes please.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3526 by madteuton

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Message 3528 of 6731 Reply

Re: DM needed in Adelaide!! madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/4/00 2:32 pm
*LOL*

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3527 by Umbratikus

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Message 3529 of 6731 Reply

Let me extend my hand in friendship. cw_staff
12/4/00 6:32 pm
Hi, I was surfing around when I found you guys. There is some awesome potential here, as you have already built a strong group. I ask you not to delete this, as I am extending my hand to you as a gaming group. I'm part of an immense organization and we play on Delphi Forums and I'd like to ask you to join our Partnering program.

We are creating partnerships around the web between various gaming groups and RPG sites so that we can all benefit from the intermingling. We currently run 12 AD&D campaigns in our own organization, Campaign World, and have another dozen who have already joined the Partnering program. All that is involved is a banner exchange (if you have one) and you get to advertise about your game for free in our homebase, The Hub. The address for the Hub is http://www.delphi.com/cwhub. So, if you are interested in being noticed as part of something much, much larger.. Something that resembles the "Go" Dynasty (disney, infoseek, etc) with hundreds of thousands of affiliates, I hope that you will make the right choice and join with us. You will be recognized. Let your voice be heard!

If your game has slowed down, we don't mind. By you joining, you may rekindle your game! Our players, and the many many players that join every day (it's free) don't only play one game, they actually play many! So, if you want to have fun running your game, if you want to meet new people, if you want to stand up and have your voice heard, this is the place to be.

If you are interested in this new oppourtunity, please e-mail me at CW_Staff@yahoo.com or stop by the Hub and post a message. Thanks for your time. And joining is free! Why not sign up? You have nothing to loose!


-=Timothy Judd=- Campaign World Staff, Yahoo Affiliate, Partner Groups Manager......


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Message 3530 of 6731 Reply

Re: Question for the 3rd ed experts lyresti
12/5/00 5:50 pm
Ok here's the deal, take you AD&D books, wrap them up nice and snug, and pack them away untill they are worth some big money, because you will never want to use them again! Absolutley do not let a single PC convert to 3E, that would be impossible! Instead of converting characters I suggest starting all new with 1st levelers. Converting is a pain in the @$$! I am so glad I made my group start at 1st level in 3E because there is so much to learn and enjoy through level advancement. But if you insist to convert 2E's into 3E's.....

In order to get the Conversion Manual straight from WOTC go to this URL:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/dnd_cyc_intro.asp

its downloadable for free in a .PDF file, so go! You will never regret the switch to 3E!

Peace,
Lyresti

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3495 by orgruff

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Message 3531 of 6731 Reply

Re: 3rd ed weapon restrictions lyresti
12/5/00 5:59 pm
From what I am getting from the 3E mentality, you have the choice of using whatever classes options are more favorable. But that does not seem right. My rule of thumb for most cases is whatever class the character is currently working on leveling in should be the dominant class. So I make my DMing decisions with this in mind. It think this makes sense, or at least it does to me! :-)

Lyresti

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3488 by orgruff

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Message 3532 of 6731 Reply

Re: 3rd ed weapon restrictions madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/5/00 6:02 pm
Is there a "3e mindset"? Hmmm, I wouldn't say that.

<>

That's simply not the case.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3531 by lyresti

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Message 3533 of 6731 Reply

Re: Druidic information lyresti
12/5/00 6:02 pm
Looks like you have Message 3601 of 6731 Reply

Learning 3rd Edition dmd12
12/12/00 6:11 pm
I'm looking for someone to teach me how to DM in 3rd Edition. Please e-mail me the basics.


a good website on the way, keep up the good work.

Lyresti

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3485 by Eoganachta

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Message 3534 of 6731 Reply

Re: A Paldin by any other name... lyresti
12/5/00 6:06 pm
That article was truley beautiful, I bought the Dragon Mags software and found it on that. There was an earlier article on the CE Anti-Paladin, which was pretty well written also. Now they just have to be converted into 3E!

Lyresti

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3484 by Rune_Lord

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Message 3535 of 6731 Reply

Re: A Paldin by any other name... madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/5/00 6:08 pm
There is an anti-paladin equivalent in 3e. A Prestige class ... Blackguard. It's usable, but I suppose any DM could tweak it a bit to fit their particular campaign world.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3534 by lyresti

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Message 3536 of 6731 Reply

Re: A Paldin by any other name... lyresti
12/5/00 6:46 pm
Thanks for the heads up madteuton. Yes the Blackguard is an interessting prestigue class which I have an NPC using already, but it isn't the same as that old anti-paladin who hunted down, tortured, decapitated, degutted, then reanimated my favorite ranger, just to get at his nemisis, the paladin in our party. Grrr...I still remember that day... BUT NOW HAHAHA I am the DM, NO I am GOD of my REALMS! HAHAHA....oh opps sorry about that people got a little carried away there. The loss of your favorite character can do that sometimes.

Peace,
Lyresti (<-that was my rangers name! sob)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3535 by madteuton

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Message 3537 of 6731 Reply

Re: 3rd ed weapon restrictions lyresti
12/5/00 7:00 pm
By the 3E mentality I simply meant the trend to more powerful characters, above average PC's. Of course not superheros, 3E now realizes that adventurers are not the normal guy or girl, they are special. I did not say to actually use which options were more favorable. I put in my last message how I deal with that problem, its only a suggestion which has flaws in it yet. So far its all up to the DM's judgement, but isn't that how everything should go?

Thanx for pointing out where I was not clear.
Lyresti

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3532 by madteuton

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Message 3538 of 6731 Reply

Speaking of 3E weapon restrictions orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 12/5/00 7:28 pm
Speaking of 3E weapon restrictions and converting from 2E. I have a game that is just moving over now and a question has arose. The party thief was using the old rules for fighting with two weapons and benifited for having a high Dex. She has picked the appropriate feats for conversion which I don't have a problem with (It would not be realistic otherwise). The problem is she uses two short swords and wants to take weapon finesse short sword. Except that the Feat description for weapon finesse seems to indicate that the off hand must be free for balance but does not say so in so many words (using the rapier in one hand, and the mention of shield penalties) So does anybody think you can use weapon finesse with both short swords?

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millennium


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Message 3539 of 6731 Reply

Re: Speaking of 3E weapon restrictions lyresti
12/5/00 8:22 pm
Wow, thats a tough question! I think in my campagin I would allow it because to me it seems that weapon finesse is a feat to dethrone the strongest fighter being the best fighter, since str is added to the 'to hit' bonus for both weapons why not add the dex to both with weapon finesse?

To tell you the truth I could think of many reasons not to, but I don't feel like playing devil's advocate to myself. No joke here, so please someone dissagree with me so we can get both sides of the equation.

Peace,
Lyresti

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3538 by orgruff

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Message 3540 of 6731 Reply

writing descriptions amra11_2000
(33/M/Haverhill, MA) 12/5/00 10:27 pm
I'm having trouble writing creative descriptions that get the players attention.
I hate using the old: "You walk through the woods" Can anyone give me some advice or a link to some information?
Thanks


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Message 3541 of 6731 Reply

Re: writing descriptions orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 12/6/00 12:14 am
Books, Movies, personal recolections.

Try all these, It sounds like you are trying to make stuff up, don't. Plagerise its easier.

Instead of "You walk through the woods" try thinking about the last time YOU were in the woods or park. Talk about the birds, sunlight cascading down through the green canopy above, small animals darting through the undergrowth, sound of traffic in the street,.... ahh whoops,... I mean sound of Orcs crashing through the bushes as they spring their ambush. Think about the forest smell after rain, describe it to the players, or at least tell them about it. I read that smells evoke the strongest mental images, so I tell the players about smells as often as appropriate.

Of course dungeons are different, think about the smells of fresh earth when someone digs a hole, think about the smell of steam escaping from underground vents or the sights and sounds of a natural cave, city sewer pipe, abandoned building full of pigeons. (pigeon crap has a distinctive smell dosn't it?)

Visual images: describe the sparks of magic that fly when the PC or NPC mage casts a spell, describe the way shadows dance during combat lit only by the light from magic swords. Describe the way the shadows change when the cleric drops the torch to the floor to boldly present his holy symbol. Describe the warm blue glow from beneath the fingers of the cleric when she heals the Dwarf, and the cold blue glow from the dark sword wielded by the Yuan-Ti and how it shadows half the scaly creatures face as it slithers towards the thief.

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millennium.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3540 by amra11_2000

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Message 3542 of 6731 Reply

Re: Speaking of 3E weapon restrictions Calitrojan
12/6/00 2:00 am
This particular topic was discussed in Dragon recently, according to them, the two hands resriction to weapon finesse is limited only to shields, holding another weapon in that hand does not apply.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3538 by orgruff

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Message 3543 of 6731 Reply

Re: Speaking of 3E weapon restrictions karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 12/6/00 5:08 am
I think you can use Weapon finesse with both hande - you still get the big off hand penalties for one of the weapons - besides I keep getting pictures of The three musketeers type movies - two swords, (although one shorter) all based on finesse - not strength.

Karrakain
(Spec in Short Sword, Ambidexterous, Two weapon style . . . the human chopping machine)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3538 by orgruff

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Message 3544 of 6731 Reply

Re: writing descriptions madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/6/00 9:53 am
Look to fantasy novels to glean descriptions from. Piers Anthony's books of Xanth were especially descriptive, I recall.

Another idea is raised in the 3eDMG. Use visual aides. Clip pictures of exotic locales out of mags ... pictures of magic items from jewelry catalogs. Anything that will help make it more real to your players.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3540 by amra11_2000

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Message 3545 of 6731 Reply

Re: 3rd ed weapon restrictions Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/6/00 10:33 am
<<3E now realizes that adventurers are not the normal guy or girl, they are special>>

All editions recognized this. It is stated specifically in the books (although I'm not exactly sure where. The section on Ability Scores I believe). The 3E characters are just more special than the 1E and 2E special people.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3537 by lyresti

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Message 3546 of 6731 Reply

Re: writing descriptions Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/6/00 10:34 am
Well said, Orgruff. Couldn't have said it better myself.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3541 by orgruff

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Message 3547 of 6731 Reply

An Uncanny Headache sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 12/6/00 7:03 pm
How would one even begin to attempt to convert a 3rd Edition D&D prestige class into a 2nd Edition AD&D class?

Sanguinarius


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Message 3548 of 6731 Reply

Re: An Uncanny Headache lyresti
(19/M/almost Germany!) 12/6/00 7:30 pm
Hold on let me get this straihgt, you want to go backwards? If thats what you mean my best advice is to make the prestigue class into a kit, not actually a class. It might be easier that way. Because I remember back in the AD&D days I created a Spell Archer kit, which the Arcane Archer Prestigue Class closely resembles. It was a fighter/wizard multiclass kit. I am a strong advocate for 3E though so I reccomend totally converting your campagin. Good luck converting, either backwards or forwards because it is a pain!

Lyresti ->Lythari Ranger

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3547 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3549 of 6731 Reply

How to Reach the Arcane Archer lyresti
(19/M/almost Germany!) 12/6/00 7:42 pm
I can see one of my PC's heading towards the Arcane Archer Prestigue Class, which is wonderful. Except he is a 4th level Ranger, now to become an Arcane Archer he needs a level in a class that can cast arcane spells. Which class would be the best for him to pick up out of the arcane casters?

It seems to me wizard (elven favored class so no XP penalty), yet he has no one to tutor him and we are in the middle of an adventure. So sorceror is the next best possibility, since this is a natural talent it might work just to allow that. But then he'll get an XP penalty. Also considering their first level abilities I'm really not sure what do do. But I want to be prepared with advice when he askes about heading towards Arcane Archer. What do you guys think?

Confused,
Lyresti


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Message 3550 of 6731 Reply

Trouble brewing cinnabar_ratwing2000
12/6/00 9:10 pm
I have reliazed recently that one of my players is begining to obtain a rather odd character. He finnaly gained his eighth level. And his multiclassing bothers me. He is a 2 level fighter/1st level bard/2nd level sorceror/1st level paladin/1st level rogue.
Now his latest addition is rouge, now with all these classes certain alingment issues have arisen. It isnt very common you see a paladin stealing things. And he is using any spells he can get his hands on. This latley has been a large wrench in the game. Any suggestions on dealing with this guy?


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Message 3551 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 12/6/00 10:17 pm
Well it was always bound to happen sooner or later. If the trouble is that he steels stuff then do what you would have done in 2E revert his Paladin to a fighter. Or for major transgressions in alignment, and keeping with the 3E theme, have his Paladin god remove that level. So now he is a 7th level Character. Watch out though you can be sure that cleric is next.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3550 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3552 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 12/6/00 10:21 pm
Sorcerer and Paladin are both classes I would judge you have to be born into or receieve a divine calling in order to get. I would never have allowed a muticlass into these classes without good reason.

Being that its done...I would make sure that character has to abide by ALL of the restrictions of all of these classes..in effect...let the character hang himself...
If he steals..then he falls from Paladinhood etc...
Also..if you multiclass that much then you are still basically at a low level in terms of hits etc so he will have a variety of skills and spells but wont really be high level in anything so throw a few higher level creatures/encounters/characters into the game as a nice challenge.

I hate players who try and play the DM..remember...you are in charge of your own game...not the character...
You need to learn to say NO sometimes and just tell the player he cant do that stuff.

J

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3550 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3553 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing (2ed style) *long* Danduin_
(~30/M/In front of a computer) 12/6/00 11:35 pm

whew what a can of worms! The mind boggles.

While I can not speak for 3ed (having not even set my eyes upon the cover of a single tome) the requirements for him to be *dual class* (has to be a human to be a paladin, 2ed.) like that are, to say the least, steep. A player MUST have 15+ in the prime req for starting clas (fighter) THEN 17+ in the primes for each new class! Are all his stats 17 or greater? stealing = no more paladin. What level was he when he changed to a bard? Did he meet teh level requirement for that transaction before he changed again? Lets go on to hit points. . . he should NOT be gaining any more until he reaches at least the level of his previous class (ad nauseum) read the restrictions/benefits on dual class in the PHB 2 ed around p46 (I think). It is of course your game and do as you see fit. I have had problems with 'super characters' 'monty haul (the '80s) rule exploitations etc. It is not easy to fix once it has gotten out of control, but it can be done. One more thing IMO Paladins are like the mob or Yakuza once you're in you're in for good. No paladin worth his sword would tolerate, for very long at any rate (I can think of a couple times a paladin 'friend' of mine actually was thankful for my services), thiefly activity much less be one! Even against 'bad' people you (the paladin) are a Gods given example of righteousness, virtue, and fairness!

Danduin Lestrontius, Slayer of lizards, Scourge of watchmen, Expert "Trasure" Hunter.



This Is a Reply to: Msg 3550 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3554 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing orgruff
(32/M/Australia, not UK) 12/6/00 11:54 pm
Of course the Character could have some personality problems from all the multiclassing thats going on.

I'd bet that if that PC finds a cursed artifact it might split his now warped personality so that he can either be a 2 level fighter while his fighter personality is dominant then after a random time his rogue personality is dominant, but now he really needs to cast detect magic but cant because his sorcerer personality took 9hp damage and is out of action until the rogue gets back to town.

Here is the opportunity for the player to have to really role play and I think you could mess with him a bit.

But thats only if you are cruel.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3550 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3555 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing (2ed style) *long* orgruff
(32/M/Australia, not UK) 12/6/00 11:57 pm


They REALLY changed the rules for multiclassing in 3E. Its a much bigger change than from AD&D to 2nd Ed

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3553 by Danduin_

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Message 3556 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/7/00 3:39 am
3e has some very interesting twists to it .. gaining new feats and skills is kind of interesting, but the most tricky of the bunch has to be multi-classing.

In my opinion, without some truly significant event occuring or time consuming training, I don't think it should be easy for a character to multi-class to anything. I don't even think it should be "automatic" that a character learns new skills or certain new feats.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3552 by jojutsu82

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Message 3557 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/7/00 10:24 am
Wait, in 3E there are no alignment restrictions? I don't understand. Speaking solely from a 2e perspective, a thief can't be LG and a paladin must be LG. What gives? Somebody please enlighten me.

Umbratikus (still stuck in the dark ages)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3550 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3557 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/7/00 10:24 am
Wait, in 3E there are no alignment restrictions? I don't understand. Speaking solely from a 2e perspective, a thief can't be LG and a paladin must be LG. What gives? Somebody please enlighten me.

Umbratikus (still stuck in the dark ages)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3550 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3558 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/7/00 11:39 am
It's difficult to consider 3e from a 2e perspective. It's nearly a different game system altogether.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3557 by Umbratikus

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Message 3559 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing Journeyman72
(22/M/Borderlands) 12/7/00 11:47 am
The classes still have alignment restrictions in 3rd edition. ie. Paladins LG, Druids N, Rangers G.
The classes in 3e have changed a bit as well. The thief class is so diverse in how you make it, it could be a LG character. This type would be more like a thief catcher.
At first I was against 3E, but after looking through the book I was hooked. It gives you so much room in creating characters and ideas.
For MultiClassing I have screwed around with it and I like it. In a variety of fantasy series you see some characters go through changes in their lives, why not PC's. The levels are all stacked for determining a total level of a character. 1st level mage, 2nd thief is a 3rd level character. It may seem odd at first but the way the rules are written it makes sense.
On character skill and feat progression, I am of the school that your character has to have made attempts during the previous level in game to increase the skill alotments, or at least my player can show me that it is likely that the character may have been doing it in downtime. The only thing I would have a problem with are skills that must be taught. Thats the greatness that is 3E. A character can attempt any thing even if they aren't "proficient" in it. Only skills that must be learned cannot be attempted. This allows a character to proctice skills which they may want to increase in the next couple of levels. This weekend I am actually going to talk to my PC's about level advancement and make an advancement plan for their characters so there is no "I think I will take inappropriate feat X for my mage this level." This will allow me to see their reasoning behind their decisions and actually roleplay out some of the early training and practice.
Well, I think I have rambled on enough.
In parting, I suggest that whoever hasn't looked at 3e yet, they should. I was diehard 2ed and didn't want to change systems ever. I am very impressed with the system. (It doesn't hurt that Wheel of Time is coming to the system this summer)
Enough for now,
I remain
Journeyman.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3557 by Umbratikus

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Message 3560 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff *long again* Danduin_
(~30/M/In front of a computer) 12/7/00 12:00 pm
Look at it this way you, Orgruff, are a doctor. Ok you get good at what you do you can spot the tell tale signs of sicknesses A, B and C from fifty paces. One day you decide I want to be a combat pilot / doctor. That is a dramatic change. It may take months (years realisticly) to fully realize your new carreer (class) focusing on keeping that few thousand pounds of metal in the air not scattered across the ground, or blown to bits, someplace. Now then, you have realized your newest dream and you're about to fly your 100th combat mission. This is great I wiped out 17 gazillion planes and survived. I think I want to be a weight lifter now. More training, more time, next the priesthood, because you "found god". So lets see Dr. Orgruff,he must be very smart, he was a doctor after all passed all that schooling etc. etc., Then he was a Fighter Pilot. Orgruff must have very, very quick reflexes to survive that many missions unscathed. Mr. Universe (exageration) WOW he is really strong too, "You know Orgruff used to be a doctor," . Father Orgruff, the wise sage-like healer/warrior/strong man/priest but wait I forgot! While going about his priestly duties he figures what the heck no one will notice if I "borrow" some of the tithes it IS for a good reason. Seems to me that, and this is of course without the benefit of knowing what 3ed has to say on the subject, the 2ed rules seem real close to what it should be like. A career change is never easy especially something that is radically different than what you know and have learned already. Tell me what are some of the "big changes"

*do not take the above personally it was NOT my intent*

Be warned I am very biased about 3ed so far, the reason I have not looked at a single book yet, well that and the hundreds of dollars I have spent on books with the silly number 2 on them, and the $$ spent on 1st ed books, expert rules, basic rules. . . .chainmail *sigh* (so that's where the money for a new house went!) They may have made some improvments but on the whole it seems that they made it too easy to make characters that can rival the gods at a relatively low level (heck 2ed is guilty of that too if you are not careful).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3555 by orgruff

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Message 3561 of 6731 Reply

Help!: Prime or Planar? SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/7/00 12:15 pm
I'm trying to solve this problem before my PCs bring it up...

I'm stea... uh, borrowing House Dlardargreth (sp?) from the Forgotten Realms. It's an ancient elven House banished for trafficking with the Lower Planes. The three leaders of the House are half-elven cambions; most of the rest of the happy family are partly elven tieflings (quarter demon or less).

Are these creatures Primes or Planars?

The Planescape set describes the difference between a planar or prime human (or other mortal being that exists in more than one plane) as being where the critter was born, hatched, or sprouted. So my first guess is that I've got three prime cambions on my hands.

Good news: if the PCs manage to kill any of them, they'll stay dead. Bad news: Abjure and similar spells won't work.

Does that sound about right?

Related question: What are the lifespans of these things? In the materials I have, I can't even find stats for starting ages of tiefling PCs. It seems some of the balor have been around for aeons. Are tannar'ri unaging? What about these half-demons, like the alu-fiends and cambions?

Thanks!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3560 by Danduin_

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Message 3562 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/7/00 12:54 pm
<>

That is the point I have been trying to make for months. Thanks Teuton.

Umbratikus (the vindicated).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3558 by madteuton

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Message 3563 of 6731 Reply

Re: Help!: Prime or Planar? Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/7/00 1:02 pm
Whether those characters are primers or planars really does depend on where the character was born and raised. However, more than likely, these characters would be planars, since they would otherwise be extremely rare on the prime. The only way they would be primers is if they were concieved on the outer planes and then was born and raised by their prime parent on the Prime. Still, I would go with planar. It would make more sense.

As far as the rest of your post goes, I can't answer until I consult my materials, but that stuff is all covered (in the Planewalker's Handbook, I believe).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3561 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3564 of 6731 Reply

A call for help richard_pinilla
(29/M/Miami, Fl) 12/7/00 1:30 pm
I'm running a campaine and my players have been asking to explore new worlds and planes. But I lost all my source matiral for Plane Scape and Sell Jammers. Coudd some one send me that information via eamil or give me a link where I can find the info.

Thanks


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Message 3565 of 6731 Reply

Re: Help!: Prime or Planar? SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/7/00 1:38 pm
Actually, my sources suggest the elves summoned the demons to the Prime, did their thing, and sent them back. So conceived, born, and raised on the Prime.

Once the other elves caught wind of it, they killed those they could and (in my version) tried to send the rest back to the Abyss. Only things didn't quite work out, and they've been trapped in an Astral demiplane for 10 or 20 millenia or so. Given the flow of time in the Astral, I think this works out to them aging about 10 or 20 years. (Must check Manual of Planes).

They finally managed to get out, return home, and are in process of trying to seek revenge for their imprisonment. PCs are due to encounter them (and know what they are, this time) in probably 2-3 weeks. If they try spells that affect extraplanar creatures, I want to know if it will affect the bad guys or not.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3563 by Umbratikus

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Message 3566 of 6731 Reply

Re: A call for help Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/7/00 1:46 pm
You can try the official Spelljammer and Planescape websites, accessible from the WotC website.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3564 by richard_pinilla

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Message 3567 of 6731 Reply

The pladine&thief thing again. davesworking
12/7/00 7:42 pm
I experimented with a multi class version of this combo. The twist being that since a paladin can sence evil he is COMPELLED to steal from the evil people. The result being a sort of pious kender. While the characer was excellent for pushing (catapulting?) stories along but the player didn't care for it, the whining got intolerable when they had to flee the planet (hay I even SUGGESTED they leave him beind when they went to a meeting with the crime lord who made a deal with a demon,I had to buyspell jammer just to find a safe place for them to hide.)


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Message 3568 of 6731 Reply

Re: The pladine&thief thing again. Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/8/00 9:15 am
Sorry. Don't buy it. A paladin being compelled to steal? Paladins are non-materialistic by nature. They can only own what they can carry. Stealing is also a selfish and evil act regardless of how you rationalize it. Taking the property of another against his will or without his knowledge is wrong and wouldnt stand up to the paladin ethos. It will take a lot to convince me of the viability of a paladin/thief.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3567 by davesworking

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Message 3569 of 6731 Reply

Re: The pladine&thief thing again. madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/8/00 10:39 am
I agree. However, what if the "paladin/thief" stole from the evil rich solely for the purpose of giving to the good poor? You know, like a high-falutin' Robin Hood. Hmmm ... reading over my words now, I probably *still* wouldn't allow it. Just a thought though.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3568 by Umbratikus

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Message 3570 of 6731 Reply

Re: The pladine&thief thing again. jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 12/8/00 12:08 pm
In the 3E rules all Thieves are ROGUES but not all Rogues are necessarily Thieves.

You could multiclass as a Paladin/Rogue and not steal things or even have the pick pockets skill if you dont want it...but you could take a variety of other skills that might help in your quest against evil.

In 3E I would allow a Paladin/Rogue but would never allow a Paladin/Thief

J

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3569 by madteuton

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Message 3571 of 6731 Reply

Paladins and Thieves Journeyman72
(22/M/Borderlands) 12/8/00 12:17 pm
My take on this is that a paladin is a holy warrior blessed with the powers of good to uphold law and goodness. A paladin has a code of honor and tends to be straightforward. This being said, I have seen nowhere that a paladin cannot resort to some deception now and again when a situation requires it. For example, a paladin who is stuck in a lawful evil or neutral society may see that the laws are either unjust or uncaring. How would he be able to act? If he continued to act in a lawful manner he would become part of the bueracracy and would not be doing his best to promote good. An example of this situation is this, If a member of the paladins party was involved in a bar fight and was imprisoned but the person the PC was fighting wasn't because he is a magistrates nephew, would the paladin be held to that ruling? Could he participate in an illegal jailbreak? I think he could just because the law has proven to be unjust.
Thieves are my other topic. In 2ed a thief was just that a criminal for the most part. In 3ed a thief is a little less criminal. In my opinion a thief character could be played as any alignment even LG. Think about it, the thief has a number of skills that can be useful to many situations, not all illegal. Exploration is a big one that comes to mind. Climbing, opening, tumbling, moving quietly, all are useful in various situations.
Basically all I want to do is show that roleplaying is what makes a difference. If a player can roleplay a noncriminal thief, let them try. A Paladin who has learned the art of the theif is not totally out of the ordinary. If any one has read some of David Eddings stuff, Sparhawk, the main character of one of the series, is basically a paladin of that world. He sometimes resorts to some very unpaladinelike behavior to promote law and order. I guess for the paladin it would come down to "Does the paladin's diety agree?" If so then the paladin keeps his granted powers. Even if not, occasionally a diety will grant the powers but give warnings of the course that its follower is taking. I think I'm just rambling now. I know it makes sense to me. Just let the players try out their ideas occasionally. If they can roleplay it without being a cheesehead, great, if not, well the dm decides how they can be penalized.

Journeyman


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Message 3572 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/8/00 1:40 pm
Perhaps it is just my perception of what it is to be a paladin, but nobody has given me a viable argument. Granted that some rogue skills would be useful in a fight against evil, but a paladin is more than someone to fight evil. A paladin subscribes to a code of honor and ethics. Paladins are typically high profile characters as well. "Does the paladin's diety agree," is one thing, but before that comes "Does this go along with his chivalric code?" Moving silently and hiding in shadows could be useful to any adventurer, but paladins are not known for sneaking around. They are more the type to boldy face their opposition. In your jail break example, a paladin in my world would be more likely to seek out other options first, such as confronting the jailor and pleading for his release, or bargaining, perhaps purchasing his release. Even in an evil society, a paladin would not be a subversive except under extremely rare circumstances. A paladin is supposed to be a shining example for all to follow. Sneaking up behind an enemy and stabbing him in the back is not exactly the most ideal model to idealize.

In addition, it would seem to me that most rogue skills would be nullified or greatly hindered by the paladin's armor. Aren't 3E paladins still encouraged to wear the best armor they can afford? Field plate would make hiding in shadows and moving silently nearly impossible, and any DM that would allow a fully armored character to climb walls is downright looney.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3571 by Journeyman72

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Message 3573 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves Journeyman72
(22/M/Borderlands) 12/8/00 1:41 pm
jojutsu, thanks for pointing that out. I keep using 2ed terminology when I talk about 3e. My previous article thief should be replaced by rogue.

Journeyman

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3571 by Journeyman72

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Message 3574 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 12/8/00 2:05 pm
Yes...very true on all points...
Well if you had a muticlass Paladin/Rogue..then all restrictions would apply for either class..including codes/ethics and armor/weapons.

I would say someone like this would be rare but not impossible..once again in 3E alot of consideration is given to armor hindrances and skills. Skills use skill points and they advance in level depending what class you are..ex..a Paladin can advance his skills such as Riding at a 1:1 ratio but a non-class skill like pick locks costs 2:1..some skills he couldnt have as either class. When he raises as a Paladin he could only raise the pick lock skill by devoting 2 points for 1 level...when he raised level as a Rogue he could raise the same skill on a 1:1 basis.

I have a blanket rule in my own game that being a Paladin is a divine calling and if you change to a different class its the same as dropping from the Paladinhood..so I dont allow them to be multiclass in my game. But there could be someone who is slightly roguish and gets a few rogue levels and then gets the divine calling to become a Paladin..in which case he would still retain his original skills.

So this weird combo is unlikely but in my view not impossible..esp in 3E..which by the way..I think lends itself towards alot of creativity and diversity in terms of the characters you can create.

Why couldnt a Paladin wear Leather armor? Or Climb walls? or pick a lock if the situation warranted it? I agree they would not back stab or pick pockets or things like that. Even picking a lock in my opinion would require a darn good justification but I could see circumstances where it would be the safest or most logical form of entry..or else he could just open a locked box.
That wouldnt go against a Lawful Good or Paladins code unless it were classifiable as thievery or stealing in my opinion.

Anyway..just a few thoughts on an interesting topic.

J

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3572 by Umbratikus

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Message 3575 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves Journeyman72
(22/M/Borderlands) 12/8/00 2:19 pm
Point taken Umbratikus, I wasn't trying to convince everyone that it is a common thing for a paladin to go rogue. I guess I am a little disorganized in my writing. I believe that the shining version of a paladin is what should be adhered to, for the most part. But if you have a player who is willing to try something a little different and you are willing to dm it, I think it could be an interesting idea. More of an exception rather than the rule. I just think that keeping to a conservative mindset about anything can sometimes lead to a stagnation. I actually am running 2 paladins in my current campaign, Twin Brothers. It is interesting because of the differences in personality. Aramel is a thinker, he stratagizes a lot more than his brother Himo, who is a Cheerful Boisterous Character quick to battle. Both of these characters fit more with your idea of a paladin. Soon however, they are going to have to face the prospect of discovering that their government, which they have been sworn to protect, is unjust and they will need to bring stability for a war against invaders which is coming upon them. This will lead to some soul searching for the characters and this is what my last post was supposed to emphasize, that roleplaying should guide a characters development and though there are standards within which a character should be played, they can be tweaked in some circumstances.
Thanks for the feedback
Journeyman

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3572 by Umbratikus

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Message 3576 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/8/00 3:05 pm
Right. I never said that it was impossible, just not easily justifiable. I would not allow a Paladin/Rogue in my game unless the player could give me a very convincing argument for it, and I knew the player well enough to know he could pull it off.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3574 by jojutsu82

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Message 3577 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves Journeyman72
(22/M/Borderlands) 12/8/00 4:14 pm
I agree totally. If a dm was to allow a pc to multiclass to his heart's content then the character would get sort of cheesy. He wouldn't really be good at anything compared to a similar level single class character and in game terms could be thought of as wishy washy. I think that multiclassing is a good way of telling a players story though, it must be done right. I am actually PC'ing in a campaign and my2nd level bard will soon be multi'ing to a mage. Why, well after not being taken seriously, discovering a love for the power that is magic, and being of above average intelligence, he decided that a study of the arcane arts will be his new passion. We also found a spell book that the dm placed in a dungeon. Thanks for the debate Umbratikus, I value all opinions.

Journeyman

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3576 by Umbratikus

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Message 3578 of 6731 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 12/8/00 5:09 pm
ouch.. the single-member party syndrome.. if you want to be really mean, solve you problem, and possibly even make an example of the poor sap, i have five words for you: arrow of multiclass character slaying.
then again, that might be too much.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3559 by Journeyman72

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Message 3579 of 6731 Reply

Re: trouble brewing Myrkul999
(22/M/Ft. Lauderdale, FL) 12/8/00 8:00 pm
No offense, but you guys seem to be over-looking one vital Point: If a Paladin takes a level in any other class, or advances a level in any other class, he can no longer advance as a Paladin Same for Monks. look it up under "Ex-Paladins" and "Ex-Monks", respectively. Once again, the Geniuses over at WOTC swoop in to save the day!


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Message 3580 of 6731 Reply

Re: trouble brewing jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 12/8/00 11:36 pm
Yes you are correct..
(I did say that before though)
I use that rule in my game but forgot to mention it is directly from the text. It still wouldn't cover a Rogue who multiclassed to a Paladin but once a Paladin you have to stay that or you cant advance any further.

Good point and I think its a very good rule.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3579 by Myrkul999

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Message 3581 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 12/9/00 3:57 pm
I had a situation with a Lawful Neutral paladin who was locked in prison for 6 months and refused to go out until his tenure in prison was ended. I let him learn a few "tricks" from the inmates and become a sort of paladin/rogue with a couple of dodgy tricks up his sleve but only 1/4 of his XP went to his rogue class. It became a remarkably wel developed character which didn't involve going out of character at all.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3571 by Journeyman72

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Message 3582 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/9/00 7:30 pm
Now, in that case, I might make an exception for the Paladin/Rogue combo .. but he better be doing some other form of pennance once he gets out of prison, making up for time lost serving the people and his diety.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3581 by sneakabout2

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Message 3583 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff orgruff
(32/M/Australia, not UK) 12/10/00 7:56 pm
Good analogy and it makes sense except that this character will never be a nero surgeon/veteran pilot/cardinal/Olympic champion. More likely he'll be a paramedic/Cessna pilot/lay-preacher/aerobics instructor. Which is not too hard to imagine.

Previous editions assumed that years of training was nesessary to study the use of weapons to become a fighter. Years were required to learn the meanings and uses of magic symbols PRIOR to being able to cast spells as a Wizard. All that has gone out the window (which is unrealistic). What 2nd Ed did have was heaps of optional pseudo classes which essentially allowed PC's to be able to cast the odd spell while swinging a sword and moving silently. It was up to individual DMs to regulate what optional classes or kits they would allow PC's to have and it still is. As DM you can impose whatever restrictions you like. I have no Drow, Gnomes, or Halflings and I refuse to allow wizards to cast necromancy spells without alignment shift. I'm currently letting 3E run a little wild but if I feel it is unbalancing then I'll reign it in or switch back. I have not yet played enough 3E to really know weather its better or not. I do like the new skill system.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3560 by Danduin_

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Message 3584 of 6731 Reply

Re: How to Reach the Arcane Archer Arthur91658843
(600/M/Arthurealm) 12/10/00 11:55 pm
"It seems to me wizard (elven favored class so no XP penalty),"
From your quote it seems your PC is an elf....

"yet he has no one to tutor him and we are in the middle of an adventure."
Well, any forest in the midst of your adventure? Training is a good part in D&D character level advancement, but don't tie the thought of "Training=Town=Library" in your mind. The matter is: Are you willing to provide a NPC for him to study with? It's up to you - DM's favor.

Excalibur

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3549 by lyresti

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Message 3585 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves kallussed
(22/M/Rochester Hills, Mi) 12/11/00 2:06 am
Churches have enemies. Think about this situation. You have a good thief. The Robin Hood type. He robs from the rich and gives to the poor. He is a nice, cheerful, and charismatic fellow. Because the local populace is struggling, he allies with a temple to distribute the tax money that he is stealing from a corrupt baron. One day the man is wounded badly while robbing a carriage carrying taxes. He rides in to the woods, separated from his band, and falls unconscious on the forest floor. He wakes to see a beautiful woman standing over him. It is an angel. The first thing he thinks is that he has died. But she tells him that he is going to be OK, and that he has a greater purpose in life…

Now, multi-class Paladin/Rogue should not be able to steal, but churches have enemies just like kingdoms…

In the example above let’s say that the evil baron is using all of this tax money to build a temple to a dark god. He plans on using his power as a bartering tool for favors granted from the ethereal plane…

The church knows about this, but needs to prove it. It’s hard to prove so they call for the aid of a very rare type of paladin. One with a good heart and a sharp blade like others, but he relies on stealth to avoid conflict. He chooses to use his abilities to help a greater good rather than to slay a minor foe. But has the full power of his god to back and protect him. Like Spiderman uses his spider sense, he detects evil and hides.

Not at all a commonly needed role, but very acceptable.

What do you think? Acceptable?

Kallussed of Sithley

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3582 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 3586 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/11/00 3:43 am
Again, an interesting twist.

While a Paladin should be restricted (or at least strongly warned) against outright thievery, I can imagine a Batman-style Dark (but still LG) Paladin .. someone who fights evil from the shadows .. prefers to use detective work over "Dudley Do-Right" style good-deed-doing.

These could be similar to "Privateers" .. doing war against the crown's (or church's) enemies by hitting them where it hurts the most (in the finances) .. issued Letters of Marque or some other sort fo commission to go forth and harm the enemies' economies by all means available (which, in the case of the Privateers often meant state-sponsored piracy).

Does this really make sense in a high-fantasy campaign where there are true terrors and demons to be fought .. probably not, but I've never been much for using too many truly fantastic creatures in my adventures. More often than not, an NPC adversary can be just as ruthless and cunning and effective as a monster.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3585 by kallussed

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Message 3587 of 6731 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/11/00 8:01 am
Okay. I could see this as an acceptable storyline, however, the character would have to be a paladin thereafter and never advance as a thief. Also, the amount of characters like this in the entire history of a campaign world would be, oh, ONE.

However, if a player came to me with this scenario I would probably let him go with it as long as he played his thief to desired level with impeccable goodness. I still have problems with a LG thief, though. To me, stealing, no matter who from, is at best a non-lawful act, even if one was starving and was stealing food for him or his family. Not evil, mind you, but certainly not lawful.

I would probably rule that his thief would have to be NG in alignment and after his "near-death experience" then his alignment would have to change to LG.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3585 by kallussed

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Message 3588 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/11/00 8:28 am
Yes, that training thing before one reaches 1st level would make the 3e multiclassing thing difficult to manage in a believable story line. Does anyone remember when Gygax was toying around with 0-level stuff, where the character actually started at -2000 xp or something like that? That could be used in the 3e multiclassing rules to make up that difference. During that 0 level experience, the character could earn xp for learning his craft, studying under a master or trainer. The DM would have to determine how much xp was learned and what tasks would have to be performed. Also he would have to determine what abilities a 0-level character would have.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3583 by orgruff

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Message 3589 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/11/00 9:50 am
I have yet to read the 3e DMG, so I don't know what it says about multi-classing, but I cannot see this being an easy task for a character. As it stands right now, I will have to be very well convinced about multi-classing before I allow a player to arbitrarily decide "I'm going to learn how to be a fighter" (or any other class).

There must be some background, prior cross-training, etc. or I won't even consider it.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3588 by Umbratikus

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Message 3590 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/11/00 10:53 am
I have a homebrewed (and still getting hammered out in playtest) kit which allows PCs to assume other personalities and classes. They need to cough up 1000 XPs for a 0th level personality, and another 1000 XPs to advance it to 1st level in a class, all to reflect that "pre-level" training.

And now that I have the L5R "Way of the Scorpion," I'm going to read up on Shosuro actors and see how *they* handle it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3588 by Umbratikus

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Message 3591 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/11/00 11:09 am
<>

This is where the 0-level concept would be useful.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3589 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 3592 of 6731 Reply

Re: Ffurg-o madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/11/00 1:16 pm
The only plausible way of making sense out of the paladin/rogue thing would be if the character started out as a rogue, gained some ranks in rogue-specific skills, then repented and gave his life to the church by becoming a paladin. I would allow that.

Forgive me if this has been discussed already; at work, no time to read through each and every post.

;-)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3591 by Umbratikus

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Message 3593 of 6731 Reply

Re: Ffurg-o dungeonmaster1st
(100/ohio) 12/11/00 5:36 pm
there is another way try a paladin of a god of thieves or love then theres the swashbuckling rogue, a paladin who took some rogue levels to help as a scout for there church or within an standing army.. an evil god with a dark paladin etc... do u need more ideas!!

PS hello all I'm new here and can't wait to see what this club has to offer!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3592 by madteuton

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Message 3594 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff dungeonmaster1st
(100/ohio) 12/11/00 5:41 pm
sounds good ,but try my little trick certain classes can't be mixed like barbarian fighter ranger and paladin combos, soccer mage bard , bard theif , priest druid, monk and any other class except maybe a priest or magic user,
can only multi class with like paladin priest same relgion, druid ranger same relgion and all the classics!! any questions

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3589 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 3595 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff dungeonmaster1st
(100/ohio) 12/11/00 5:42 pm
sounds too easy for the pc to be killed off in game played !

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3588 by Umbratikus

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Message 3596 of 6731 Reply

Re: Help!: Prime or Planar? Evertree
12/11/00 11:05 pm
I don't have my books out, but let me give it a try.

The elven house is filled with the Tenebrous Prime and planar both. The cambions are born from elvish women so I would allow them to mostly be born and raised on Toril. Tieflings of the same house would also be mostly primes, but ofcourse there would be planars scattered among them. That idea is VERY easy to reverse and reason out if you want to. [they are all planar because they are raised in an outlands stronghold as pawns to gain a foot hold on the prime.... BUT you said it was an Faerunian house of elves]

All of the fiends and celestials are ageless. They generally change form instead of aging... a demon gains power over time and becomes a more powerful type of demon. Angelfolk perform feats or have great faith/fidelity and are advanced in the same way.

Cambions are EXTREMELY long-lived, virtually the same as other lesser fiends. They do age through childhood, but at some stage of adult hood, their aging ceases.

Tieflings age about the same as half-elves, as I remember... definitely shorter lived than dwarves. You seem to have all of your spells worked out regarding planar folk.

Good luck in the gaming!


E.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3561 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3597 of 6731 Reply

Spell Blade Sir_Bluetooth
(21/M/Kearney, NE) 12/12/00 1:21 pm
I have a question for the wise DMs in the room. A friend of mine is currently running the Ruins of Undermountain, but has a slightly incomplete set. While this is not a problems for most of the adventure it mentions a few magical items that cannot be found in either of the books. Specifically the Spell Blade vs. Cone of Cold. She has look through both books that she has for the Ruins of Undermountain and cannot find any mention of the blade other than where the players are supposed to find it. I was wondering if anyone knows what it is, or if not has any ideas on what it could be. She is somewhat of an inexperienced DM and so does not want to make it up herself without a second opinion.

Thanks,
Travis

P.S. If you want to email suggestions you can email them to Sir_Bluetooth@yahoo.com


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Message 3598 of 6731 Reply

Re: How to Reach the Arcane Archer lyresti
(19/M/almost Germany!) 12/12/00 4:46 pm
Ya the PC is an elf, he has to be to become an arcane archer thats one of the prereqs for the class. That is a good point about training not having to be in a library in a town, now ill just have to figure out how to insert a NPC that can train him, not unbalance the party with a high powered mage, and not waste game time with the training. Which is what us DMs are for! It shouldn't honestly be too hard I suppose. Thanx for the feed back much appreciated Excalibur!

Peace,
Lyresti

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3584 by Arthur91658843

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Message 3599 of 6731 Reply

Re: Spell Blade dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/12/00 5:16 pm
Good question if you can't find it drop me aline maybe i can help you come up with a cool magical blade I'm known for stuff like that in my DMing days

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3597 by Sir_Bluetooth

---Message 3600 of 6731 Reply

Re: How to Reach the Arcane Archer dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/12/00 5:21 pm
I'd recomend an NPC sage with really no powerful spells to be rescued froma trap or something and offer the elf the knowledge for freeing him trough training or perhaps a book on the basic's subject to get him started then he'll have to get he spells another way? as the favor class in my group i view wizard and sorcer as the same for and elf for favored class but not allow them to take levles in each . or perhaps an elven bard could be used instead of the sage etc.. and ?'s let me know

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3549 by lyresti

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Message 3601 of 6731 Reply

Learning 3rd Edition dmd12
12/12/00 6:11 pm
I'm looking for someone to teach me how to DM in 3rd Edition. Please e-mail me the basics.


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Message 3602 of 6731 Reply

Re: How to Reach the Arcane Archer Ima_Doppleganger
12/12/00 6:21 pm
You could always have the Ranger leave the party for a while, the player can play a “Special Reason” character (“will you help me rescue someone / save the village / defeat a band of Ogres, etc”) for a easy, side adventure, get the other PC’s some extra gold, equipment, clues and then rejoin them when the training is finished. That way you avoid having a NPC Wizard in the group.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3600 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3603 of 6731 Reply

New DM, bad players dreul16
(M/Ringwood, IL) 12/12/00 10:55 pm
I am a new DM. I live in a very small town and had no chance to learn from anyone experienced; so, I justed picked up the DMG and got to it. I have 5 players in my campaign, two of which are very good players, two of which don't take it seriously, and one who hardly knows what role playing is (we're training him). One of my serious players quite because he says I don't have enough discipline making the other three act better. The reason I don't punish those three too much is that they would only grow angry at me and pay even less attention.

What can I possibly do? Should I make the game more exciting (it would if not for the three), or begin taking off hitpoints?


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Message 3604 of 6731 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 12/12/00 11:15 pm
YOu can't 'make' people do anything. In my experience, if people don't get into the game, they shouldn't play. They ruin it for everyone else. Sounds like you should keep the two good ones, maybe even the one who needs help (if he truly desires to play), and lose the other 2.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3603 by dreul16

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Message 3605 of 6731 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players orgruff
(32/M/Australia, not UK) 12/13/00 1:01 am
>>Sounds like you should keep the two good ones, maybe even the one who needs help (if he truly desires to play), and lose the other 2. <<

I agree entirely. The only thing I see complicating the matter is if the two disinterested players are partners of either yourself or the good players, in which case it would pay to be very tactful. In that case I would sugest delicately questioning them, out of game, as to why they are playing. If its just to keep an eye on their partner then try to tactfully suggest they find something else to do except ruin your game.

I must note that I tried this and failed. The game fell apart which was the whole aim of my problem 'player'. She did not want her boyfriend playing 'silly games' so she ruined it for everyone thus achieving her goal.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3604 by leeok31

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Message 3606 of 6731 Reply

Re: Learning 3rd Edition madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/13/00 12:48 pm
I know someone who can teach you. Skip Lee and the crew at Wizards of the Coast. Y'know, they just put out three whole books chock-full of "How To Play 3e" stuff.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3601 by dmd12

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Message 3607 of 6731 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players favwiz
(34/M/Lexington, KY) 12/13/00 1:16 pm
A gaming group is like any other social group. It is a social entity that requires give and take on everyones part. Talk to the two players not taking the game seriously. Tell them how you feel. Ask them what they are looking for in a game. It is quite possible that you can work out a game that everyone will enjoy. Above all, don't let yourselves get mad at each other. Gaming is supposed to be a fun activity and a way to grow friendships.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3603 by dreul16

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Message 3608 of 6731 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/13/00 1:45 pm
<>

Then, walk them quietly into the woods, and shoot them.

:-)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3607 by favwiz

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Message 3609 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/13/00 2:32 pm
Not really. Their initial class would start at 1st level. Only when they want to add another class, would they start at 0-level. The player would state that he wants his next level to be mage, for instance, and then he would be a 0-level mage. The DM would determine what powers he has at 0-level and what he must do to become 1st level. That way the character doesnt just go to bed one night as a figher and wake up the next morning (so to speak) as a fighter/mage.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3595 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3610 of 6731 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/13/00 3:41 pm
start by finding out what type of players each one in your group is and then adjust your game to fill all the styles ! if thats doesn't work drop really utle clues that end up leading to big treasure for those who pay attetion and figure things out!! as for the ones disrupting i find killing off pcs so they have to roll up new ones all the time helps them pay attetion to what there are doing so they get to play instead of spending most of the time rolling up new Pc's while everyone else is getting all the cool stuff and gets to level up while they get left behind cause they keep dieing !!! another trick is talk to your series players and see if they like to help you get the others more intrused in the game ... or replace them with other players but as a beginner i don't recommend more then 5 pc in the group as a veteren DM 5 is my limit with at least 1 other veteren player!!! any more questions feel free to drop me a line in yahoo messenger anytime fro more help or post them here for all us experienced dm's advive!!

Thank you and have a nice day

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3603 by dreul16

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Message 3611 of 6731 Reply

Re: Learning 3rd Edition dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/13/00 3:43 pm
It's no different then 2nd all you need to do is read the DMG PHB and MM and you'll figure it out for the most part it's the same style as 2nd just in 3rd it's a new way to to do it

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3601 by dmd12

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Message 3612 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff Myrkul999
(22/M/Ft. Lauderdale, FL) 12/13/00 5:50 pm
soccer mage!!
New prestige class!
Imbue soccer spec. ability :)(imbues a soccer ball w/ a spell, much like imbue arrow of Arcane archer :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3594 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3613 of 6731 Reply

Re: Orgruff madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/13/00 5:52 pm
Not bad. You should enter the Prestige Class contest in the AD and D PLAYERS club.

:-)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3612 by Myrkul999

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Message 3614 of 6731 Reply

Classic movies for ya'll knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/14/00 3:02 am
Conan, the Barbarian
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1004/1004637.ihtml?13070

Conan, the Destroyer
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1004/1004638.ihtml?13070

Dark Crystal
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1005/1005237.ihtml?13070

Dragonslayer
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1006/1006266.ihtml?13070

Excalibur
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1006/1006848.ihtml?13070

Krull
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1011/1011727.ihtml?13070


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Message 3615 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll (cont.) knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/14/00 3:03 am
Labyrinth
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1011/1011774.ihtml?13070

The Last Unicorn
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1011/1011988.ihtml?13070

Legend
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1012/1012164.ihtml?13070

The Neverending Story
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1014/1014840.ihtml?13070

Record of Lodoss War (collector's set)
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1070/1070482.ihtml?13070

Red Sonja
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1017/1017352.ihtml?13070

Wizards
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1023/1023867.ihtml?13070

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3614 by knightmare6

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Message 3616 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll (cont.) knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/14/00 3:06 am
Just thought I'd share these with you guys, since many of them are now out-of-print in the U.S.

I recently threw a D&D party and had these movies playing on various TVs throughout the apartment. Everyone had a blast and these help set the mood greatly. With the help of my friends and their TVs and DVD players it was a blast.

Too many players, though... we ran a 22 player game with 3 DMs!

Peace out!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3615 by knightmare6

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Message 3617 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies (cont.) Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 12/14/00 1:28 pm
you forgot one of the best ever....
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1006/1006848.ihtml

Excalibur

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3615 by knightmare6

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Message 3618 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies (cont.) knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/14/00 4:42 pm
I did mention Excalibur...

http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1006/1006848.ihtml?13070

Anyone else got any suggestions?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3617 by Eoganachta

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Message 3619 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies (cont.) dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/14/00 7:13 pm
own it love it

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3618 by knightmare6

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Message 3620 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll (cont.) dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/14/00 7:15 pm
1 sucked
2 never hern of it ?:(
3 good one
4 1 2 3 all great
5 it was ok
6 hubba hubba
7 never heard of it ?:(

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3615 by knightmare6

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Message 3621 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/14/00 7:16 pm
1&2&3 all sucked
4&5&6 all great

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3614 by knightmare6

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Message 3622 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/14/00 11:56 pm
Perhaps, perhaps not, but when I was younger I didn't really care about much of the acting, stories, or anything else, as long as it was lots of action, I was easily pleased!!!

Course nowadays, I look back and winch at some of the things I loved as a kid/young teen. Silverhawks and Voltron? They were fun to watch, but I'd rather mute it nowadays!

http://www.geocities.com/knightmare6/mywebpage.html

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3621 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3623 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/15/00 8:46 am
Excalibur and Dragonslayer were my favorites, with the first Conan movie coming in close. One classic you forgot was:

The Sword and the Sorcerer
http://www.videoflicks.com/VF2/1020/1020746.ihtml
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0084749

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3614 by knightmare6

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Message 3624 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/15/00 12:16 pm
The 13th Warrior rules!!! I was surprised. Reminiscent of the 13th warrior. I would love to run a campaign like this!

Liked Labyrinth (it was still Brian Froud stuff), but it was a bit too hoaky for me.

Legend is fantastic!! Tim Curry as darkness is unforgettable. The part he was born to play (even better than Frankenfurter!).

Excalibur, The Dark Crystal & Dragonslayer, of course!! Three of the all-time best!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3623 by Umbratikus

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Message 3625 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/15/00 12:17 pm
<>

D'oh! I meant to say "Reminiscent of the 7th Samurai".

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3624 by madteuton

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Message 3626 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/15/00 2:15 pm
13th Warrior doesn't classify as a Classic movie, since it is so new. I also was very disappointed in it. It was okay. I enjoyed it and all, but I was expecting better. The cave scene was very AD&Desque, I thought.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3624 by madteuton

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Message 3627 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/15/00 2:16 pm
Speaking of new movies, anyone seen the D&D movie yet? What I am looking forward to is the Lord of the Rings movies.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3626 by Umbratikus

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Message 3628 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/15/00 2:44 pm
What's the cut-off date then? All the movies you've cited were made in the eighties. Is that the classic cut-off decade? And, I'm sure most will agree, some movies are instant classics despite the time-frame in which they were made. I think, as far as "got-my-D&D-dander-up" movies go, the 13th Warrior was *fantastic*.

To each their own, I s'pose.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3626 by Umbratikus

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Message 3629 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/15/00 4:59 pm
Excalibur?

Sorry, I know it's sacred to gamers and Rennies alike, but I just didn't care for it. It did get me to find a recording of "Carmina burana" though, which was a plus.

13th Warrior... haven't seen it yet. Not sure I want to. I'm not sure if I want to read the original "Eaters of the Dead" (not the Crighton revision). If I do, I think I'd best see the movie first so I don't have an apoplectic fit.

Why not just make "Beowulf: The Movie" and have done with it?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3628 by madteuton

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Message 3630 of 6731 Reply

Building a Religion Calitrojan
12/15/00 5:20 pm
A new thread from me. I now have my players approaching the 3rd level and my campaign has the underlying tones of religious differences. I need to develop my religions further and some up with some detailed things about them. I have seperated them into the four major religion, good, evil, chaos, and evil... currently the players have priest of the god of good and most of the rest of the party worships the god of chaos.

Calletta, the goddess of good, thus far has a religion headed by a family of priests. The head priest dies at the age of 35, due to a curse put on the family by the evil priests. One of the players invented a new part of the religion recently when his preist character ... well let me quote him, "I pull out my little Red Book of Calletta and begin to recite the story of Gurion and the Three Thieves, to show my fellow adventurers the error of their ways." So, of course now every priest of Calletta hauls around a little red book... ugh!

The goddess of chaos, Wentel, by far dominates the party's worshipping body. Though I have little for her followers other than the need to convert those who have not seen the light of a little chaos...

Some ideas?


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Message 3631 of 6731 Reply

Re: Building a Religion SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/15/00 5:57 pm
All Hail Eris!

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/

The Discordians worship (I think) the idea of chaos or discord (sort of), generally to make a social point (I'm nearly entirely sure).

It's worth noting that nearly every copy of the "religion"'s text, the "Principia Discordia," is different from other copies.

Honestly, I think it's more of a philosophy than a religion. (But who am I to know the business of men's hearts?) Still, persusing this online copy of the Principia might worthwhile for you.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3630 by Calitrojan

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Message 3632 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies (cont.) amra11_2000
(33/M/Haverhill, MA) 12/15/00 8:26 pm
I always liked the old sinbad movies

Jim

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3618 by knightmare6

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Message 3633 of 6731 Reply

D&D the movie gr8t_chef
(24/M/San Jose, CA) 12/15/00 11:16 pm
For those of you that have seen it what do you think? I thought that it was o.k. I have a copy of the movie right now in mpeg format for windows media player on cd


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Message 3634 of 6731 Reply

Re: D&D the movie Ima_Doppleganger
12/15/00 11:47 pm
Please go back to post #15179 for a completely unbiased review of D&D the Movie. All of the intelligent movie-goers agreed with it.

:-)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3633 by gr8t_chef

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Message 3635 of 6731 Reply

any good d&d sites? a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 12/16/00 8:28 pm
does anyone in here have any good d&d sites? im creating the ultimate dungeon, and i need some more things for it. you know that emrikol character featured in the 1st edition dms guide and the 2nd edition players hand book? he's the baddie in it. oh yeah, i have a d&d club, http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/adanddonlinegames please join if you don't mind being a player character as well as a dm.


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Message 3636 of 6731 Reply

Re: Building a Religion Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 12/17/00 2:59 pm
if you want a cleric to really stand out, try emulating the Church of the SubGenius. whooo..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3631 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3637 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/18/00 8:14 am
I suppose I consider the classic fantasy movies the ones before fantasy and D&D themes became mainstream, which is sometime in the mid to late 80s.

And yes, 13th Warrior was about as D&D as you can get without actually being a D&D flick. Actually, it reminded me of adventures and campaigns I have run. Still, I was expecting it to be better.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3628 by madteuton

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Message 3638 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/18/00 8:31 am
Didn't care for Excalibur? What didn't you like about it, if I may ask? I thought this was a brilliant film. It has been in my top 10 since its release. It also sent me after Carmina Burana, as it did you.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3629 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3639 of 6731 Reply

Re: Building a Religion Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/18/00 8:49 am
For some reason, developing religions and priesthoods are my favorite part of campaign world design. One way to jump start the old imagination is look at already developed priesthoods from other D&D materials, official and otherwise. I also think it is fun to create or modify special spells and abilities unique to that priesthood, although because you have only a handfull of gods, you can probably take care of that by limiting spheres of influence for each priesthood. For example, in my campaign, priests of Loqueth (Lolth), demon queen of spiders, cast Stones to Spiders instead of Sticks to Snakes. Priests of Naveh, lady of shadows, can hide in shadows as a thief of the same level.

Take a look at what is within the gods spheres of influence, besides good, evil, law, and chaos. If one controls the sun, then solstices and equinoxes would likely be holy days. Gods of night would ceremony only at that time, and hold eclipses in high esteem. Don't shy away from cliches, but don't overuse them. Go ahead and let the priests of the evil god perform human sacrifices. The priesthood of the god of law would likely have a very structured hierarchy, while the priests of chaos would have a looser structure, if any structure at all. Just a few ideas. (And I think you should still use the druids as arbiters, even though you tend to shy away from them).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3630 by Calitrojan

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Message 3640 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies (cont.) Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/18/00 8:51 am
<>

Not to mention Jason and the Argonauts. Loved that one.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3632 by amra11_2000

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Message 3641 of 6731 Reply

Re: D&D the movie Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/18/00 8:53 am
Where in the gods' names did you get that movie on CD? As a member of this group, I think it is your duty to make copies and distribute one to every member of this guild.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3633 by gr8t_chef

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Message 3642 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic Excalibur music for ya'll madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/18/00 12:15 pm
Carmina Burana? Well, yeah, that was great. But, it doesn't even approach the masterworks of Richard Wagner that featured so prominently through that movie. "Parsifal"! "Goetterdammerung"! "Tristan und Isolde"!! My Gawd, these are the quintessential RPG soundtracks to end all soundtracks!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3638 by Umbratikus

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Message 3643 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic Excalibur music for ya'll Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/18/00 2:25 pm
We may have disagreed on 13th warrior, but we agree here. Wagner is awesome. I already owned those works before I saw Excalibur. Hell, they were written for the Arthurian legend (sort of). Magnificent pieces. However, I didn't have CB until after I saw that movie. The scene after Arthur is healed and the knights are riding through the cherry blossoms with the first movement of Carmina Burana playing in the background is just masterful.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3642 by madteuton

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Message 3644 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic Excalibur music for ya'll madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/18/00 2:37 pm
Yes, that is masterful!

I love how the exerpts from Parsifal were used. When percival is cast down stream by the ravening Lancelot's henchmen, he sheds his armos (in slo-mo) under water, then climbs out of the water to find the grail ... "what ... is the secret ... of the graaaaaail? Who does it serve?" Chilling. Poignant.

And, again before Arthur is to go into battle with Mordred, he visits the ruins, and calls out loud to Merlin ... and Merlin returns from his entrapment ... "You're love brought me back ..." Man, what a great scene! So touching.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3643 by Umbratikus

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Message 3645 of 6731 Reply

Re: Building a Religion Calitrojan
12/18/00 3:03 pm
Good ideas in there Umbratikus, and I just wanted ot address the idea of druids as arbiters, I cannot remember if that was your original idea or something I have been pondering over.

I have had a player take on a 3rd edition druid (who subsequently drowned while trying to swim his way out of a dungeon) and the other players seem to be intrigued by the class, so I have been forced to pay more attention to them.

I have decided to make nature and True Terra (as the druids call the world), a god in itself which I plan on rolling into the Nothingness, a fifth god worshiped by a militaristic people that I have waiting in the wings to return and retake the campaign world for themselves... I plan on putting hte druids in the middle of the four religons vs the fifth one when that time comes, but until them they have a small niche as arbiters between the original four.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3639 by Umbratikus

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Message 3646 of 6731 Reply

Re: Building a Religion Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/18/00 3:35 pm
(ahem) Yes, the druidic arbiters was my idea.

Anyway, sounds like you have things pretty well sketched out. I forsee a lot of small Holy War skirmishes breaking out here and there, creating a great deal of opportunity for intrique. You could also have some holy relics that are sacred to more than one religion, thereby creating ownership squabbles, or races to find said objects.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3645 by Calitrojan

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Message 3647 of 6731 Reply

Re: Building a Religion dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/18/00 5:18 pm
sounds like ALOT of fun creating new demi(gods) and letting the Pc help with stuff like that works great makes Dm's job easier and lets the Pc feel like they still are incontorl of the game lol!! all the ideas stated so far sound good to me ... but i hac=ve a big surprise in my group heheheheeh we are finishing un a 2nd edtiond campigne run buy another member and when we start 3rd heheheheeheh time to bring back some long long long long long lost gods from red blue book , 1st editone and yes even some fron 2nd edtion... a new world holy war is about to erupt on my unsuspecting PCs lol...
hopefully this time someone will play a Cleric lol

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3630 by Calitrojan

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Message 3648 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll ODYSSEUS_THE_TRAVELER
(31/M/HAVE SLEEPING BAG WILL HA) 12/19/00 7:18 am
lets not forget the new soon to be classic Gladiator, although not much of a party orientated movie ( cept in the later parts) its the classic bad guy, good guy movie.

In my humble opinion here is my short list of good mood setting movies as none of them fix the round holes that D&D made for itself.

1. Conan the barbarian ( by the way, dont get conan the destroyer,,it really sucked)
2. 13th warrior
3. Dragonslayer ( which would rock if they re-did it now)
4. Gladiator
5. Lord of the Rings ( yea I know its not out, but I have a feeling that it will at the minimum make my "must buy" dvd list. The cartoons are ok if you can get into the weird cartoon effects)
6. Star wars ( yes this isnt a D&Dish movie, but actually fits the hole pretty good, take away the space stuff and you have a classic western or fantasy movie)
7. The old claymation movies, this is a broad subject, but a short list of them would be Sinbad and Jason and the argonauts.
8. Any of the old wu tang kung fu movies
9. Road warrior, once again a bit on the sci-fi side, but take away the cars and guns and you have a good base for ideas.
10. Bladerunner ( see item 9 for explaination)

Anyways, for all of you about to try to flame for my opinion, cool your jets and remember, its my opinion.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3638 by Umbratikus

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Message 3649 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/19/00 5:01 pm
sounds good except Conan's been done too many times already !!
13th warrior would make a great all fighter (sub classes) adventure
3 dragon slayer not bad but what about dragonheart perhaps
4Gladiator no problem
5 lord of the ringd ??????????????
6 star wars just pick up thr rpg and play that
7 sinbad but of coarse just like any other myth!!
8 everybody was kung-fu fighting
9 - 10 just pick up the alterinty rpg and play them like the movie?
thats my 2 cents

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3648 by ODYSSEUS_THE_TRAVELER

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Message 3650 of 6731 Reply

intimidation skill amra11_2000
(33/M/Haverhill, MA) 12/19/00 11:36 pm
Should one player be able to use the intimidation skill against another player?
I am a little hesitant about allowing it because it might not be fair.
Any thoughts?


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Message 3651 of 6731 Reply

Re: intimidation skill knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/20/00 3:47 am
I always allowed it, but allow a save and give a penalty based upon the difference in level.

I still play 2nd Edition, so I don't know if you mean and or 3rd edition, but anyways.

examples:

- a 13th level Fighter using it on a 10th level fighter would roll to use the skill as normal, but the opponent would save at -3 due to level difference.

- a 10th lvl. fighter using it on a 13th level fighter, same as above but the opponent would get a +3 to save since they are higher level

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3650 by amra11_2000

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Message 3652 of 6731 Reply

Re: intimidation skill Jiriki13
(31/M/Chicago area) 12/20/00 9:42 am
I disagree with knightmare. I never allow a skill such as intimidation to affect another PC. Those types of skills are meant for use against NPC's only. At least in my campaigns. An example of this type of skill would be the proficiency from the Al-Qadim setting called Weapon Display(I think that right) where the PC displays his weapon prowess thru a "weapon display" similar to a martial arts film and there my has a chance to intimidate NPC's. This proficiency states that this skill should not be enforced against PC's. PC's are role played a certain way and it might not be in character for the PC to be intimidated no matter what the circumstances. PC's reactions, other than magically forced ones, are decided on by the player; not the DM. Just my opinion.

Dave

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3650 by amra11_2000

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Message 3653 of 6731 Reply

Re: intimidation skill sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 12/20/00 11:09 am
I think you should be able to use it on a player, but if you do, what are the other player characters in the party going to think of you and what are they going to do about it?

Sanguinarius

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3652 by Jiriki13

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Message 3654 of 6731 Reply

Re: intimidation skill vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 12/20/00 11:17 am
I think that D&D sets the stage perfectly for a well balanced game. For every + there is a -. This goes for PC's vs, NPC's AND PC's vs. PC's.

I recently played an 8 hour game where we fought absolutely no NPC's. We played practical jokes on each other and even fought a little. It was by far the best game i have ever played.

Long story short. YES. Use skills against PC's. It will enrich their character interactions and start to create a history.

I would create a DC and just use their skill modifier to decide if it works. Just as if it were against a NPC.

vah-

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3652 by Jiriki13

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Message 3655 of 6731 Reply

Re: intimidation skill Ima_Doppleganger
12/20/00 12:54 pm
I would allow it, what the PC does with the reaction is up to the player (is he going to resent it, seek favoritism, look for alliances within the party, etc). If you disallow this skill within the party, you would, to be fair, have to restrict all skills within the party (Diplomacy, Innuendo, Heal, etc.).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3650 by amra11_2000

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Message 3656 of 6731 Reply

Intimidation skill revisited amra11_2000
(33/M/Haverhill, MA) 12/20/00 1:41 pm
Let me give you all the situation. I will try to keep it short.

The party is searching some ruins they thought were abandoned, turns out they are not.

Player A, an assasin (unknown to the party) is searching in an area alone and comes across an old man sleeping in his bed.
He sneaks up, puts his hand over his mouth and a dagger to his throat and says, "Be quiet or die".
The old man doesn't and his throat is slit.

Player B, a fighter arrives and sees a corpse in a blood soaked bed and player A covered in blood.
After a few questions he yells "murderer!" and attacks player A.
The rest of the party breaks it up but then player A decides to leave and player B steps in front of him to stop him.

Player A tries to use intimidationc to get by.

Notes:

Player B's history, written up before the campaign and I have a copy, tells of how his whole family was murdered.

It seems to me intimidation would be of no use in this situation.


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Re: Intimidation skill revisited jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 12/20/00 2:04 pm
I think A skill like "intimidation" is better used as a GAUGE for the DM to fairly respond to a character as an NPC...since the DM knows every facet of the game and can play things as they want, something like an intimidation roll gives you a standard to judge an npcs reaction fairly.
In a case like this, the player knows their reaction and it can be chalked up to role playing and I think basically PC's should be able to play their characters as they see fit.
If it were me and the player were trying to intimidate another player, I'd just let him say what his character would say and the other player can respond accordingly.

I say let him gig that assassin...no intimidation check required.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3656 by amra11_2000

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Message 3658 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited Ima_Doppleganger
12/20/00 2:26 pm
>>It seems to me intimidation would be of no use in this situation.<<

I think it would be, you just increase the chance to save and therefore overcome the intimidation. Also, what is the party's reaction, do they back Player A, Player B, or they neutral?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3656 by amra11_2000

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Message 3659 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/20/00 2:47 pm
I'd have the pc's roll play it out and see were it goes from there

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3656 by amra11_2000

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Message 3660 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/20/00 2:49 pm
i agree with you let the 2 pcs play it out and see how the other pcs react to it

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3657 by jojutsu82

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Message 3661 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 12/20/00 2:52 pm
dungeons and dragons wouldn't exist without The Lord of the Rings stories! i take those question marks as an insult to them. sure, the movies were terrible, but you can't totally diss them. ill juset shut up now, so i don't start a fight.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3649 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3662 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited amra11_2000
(33/M/Haverhill, MA) 12/20/00 5:58 pm
Thanks for all the replies.
I'm leaning towards not allowing skills against other players that will "control" them.

This player (A) is new to my group and has come over from a Vampire game.
Are any of you familiar with it?
How does the "story teller" compare to a DM?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3656 by amra11_2000

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Message 3663 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited Jiriki13
(31/M/Chicago area) 12/21/00 9:39 am
I stand by my opinion and feel that in no circumstance should a non-magical reaction be forced upon a PC by another PC. PC's are reactions are determined by role playing and should not be forced by non-magical skill.
I also want to note on a posting, I forget by who, that if a DM disallows a skill such as intimidation to be used against other PCs' then the DM should also disallow skills such as Innuendo, Diplomacy, and Heal. I agree with Innuendo and Diplomacy, but Heal should even close to being considered a reaction affecting skill and therefore should not be disallowed. Heal affects a PC physically, not mentally. Not to mention that a PC using Heal on another character is most likely trying to help that PC recover from injuries sustained in battle.

Just my thoughts.

Dave

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3656 by amra11_2000

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Message 3664 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited Jiriki13
(31/M/Chicago area) 12/21/00 9:45 am
I've played a Vampire a few times and the story tellers duties are basically the same it's just the game that differs. All the games I played in were almost all role playing and very little combat. Which is cool. I liked the game, just couldn't find enough people that wanted to play and lost the story teller that taught me the game too. Of course, in Vampire the skills that attain a desired reaction from someone else can be used against other Vamps, if I remember correctly. It has been a long time since playing and things may have changed; as they usually do.

Dave

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3662 by amra11_2000

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Message 3665 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 12/21/00 10:20 am
I disagree, Innueddo and Diplomancy allows the DM to add elements to the game that sometimes would not be there. I would not allow it, if it was something detrimental. But I'm sure there are circumstances where this could be used. I'm not talking mind control where the PC's have zero control. But something that could be useful on a very limited basis. It's up to the DM how it is used.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3662 by amra11_2000

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Message 3666 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 12/21/00 11:41 am
In Vampire: The Masquerade there are Disciplines... Disciplines are supernatural powers granted by the vampire's bloodline... They are often used against other vampires for various reasons, rather it be battle or politics, neither which seem happen without the other... The Discipline, Dominate, influences the very thoughts and actions of both PCs and NPCs... It is much more powerful than Intimidate from DnD and is used almost every game of V:TM...

Sanguinarius

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3664 by Jiriki13

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Message 3667 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/21/00 11:43 am
Start a fight? *LOL*

And, let me remind you the LoTR movies would not have existed without Richard Wagner's opera, Der Ring Des Nibelungen, which would not have existed without ...

There is nothing new under the sun, child.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3661 by a_d_ddude

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Message 3668 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll Ima_Doppleganger
12/21/00 12:57 pm
“Le Mort d'Arthur” I believe it’s Pre Tolken by a few centuries.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3661 by a_d_ddude

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Message 3669 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/21/00 1:00 pm
And has existed in oral history for even a time more.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3668 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3670 of 6731 Reply

Campaign Word of Valla Morr johnny_lingster
12/21/00 1:45 pm
Come out and visit us in the world of Valla Morr! We have a web site pertaining to the campaign of Valla Morr, a home brewed D&D world.

The campaign setting has all the goodies:
dwarves, humans, elves in chains.. wait did I say chains? YUP!

Elves in my world are SLAVES! A long time ago, something happened that caused the elves to become slaves. No one really knows what that is, except for a few underground groups (bladesingers, cavaliers, cavers, etc.)

Stop on by and see what we have to offer!

Maps, PC Portraits, world statistics, New Prestige class, session logs, and much much more!

If you live in the Rochester NY area and might like to join, we have 2 openings available!


Just e-mail if you like what we have! OR even if you don't!
Tell us how to improve the place!

Give us suggestions for the campaign! We could use them (and give credit)!


The site is updated every week with more stuff! The session logs are storylines of what happened each gaming session in an RP style book. Hey you never know what will happen next!

Link here:

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/vallamorr

The LingSter

jling1@rochester.rr.com


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Message 3671 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/21/00 2:12 pm
I was recently playing in a game where the GM's NPC used a version of "Intimidate" on the PCs. I thought he handled it well.

[The system was Legend of the Five Rings and the NPC was Bayushi... excuse me, Empress Kachiko, for those familiar with the setting].

He made his rolls, and would tell a PC, "You feel as if you're falling into her eyes," or "You feel a sudden, deep connection with her." He left it up to our role-playing to decide if we could resist the charms of the most beautiful and deadly woman in Rogukan.

More fun than, "You do what she asks, because you're so smitten with her."

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3666 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3672 of 6731 Reply

Re: Campaign Word of Valla Morr madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/21/00 2:13 pm
This guy's spamming all the D&D sites with this crap!! Can we delete this post and complain to yahoo!?

I'm tellin' MOM!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3670 by johnny_lingster

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Message 3673 of 6731 Reply

Re: Intimidation skill revisited Ima_Doppleganger
12/21/00 2:28 pm
>>Legend of the Five Rings<<
I loved the "Book of the Five Rings", is this campaign on it and is it an accessory, or a manual creation?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3671 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3674 of 6731 Reply

Legend of the Five Rings SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/21/00 3:09 pm
I think L5R takes some inspiration from "Book of the Five Rings" (PC stats are Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Void, for instance), but it isn't *on* it... as I recall, it was a sort of manual on how to be a warrior.

It's a nifty idea out of Alderac Entertainment Group. There's the L5R card game, the Clan Wars war game, and L5R RPG, all of which use similar concepts, NPCs, and plots. While the rules are (obviously) different, they try to keep certain concepts constant across all three arenas: you can fight an iajutsu duel about the same way in any of them.

There are a ton of supplements ("Book of the Five Rings" is not one of them, of course, but it is on the recommended reading list). A few are written journal-style, from the point-of-view of the NPCs, with game rules in the sidebars or in separate chapters. Very cool.

I like it a lot, both as a game system to play, and as a source to steal nifty ideas for my game world. The mechanics are pretty smooth (and getting revised in the upcoming 2nd ed) and the flavor text is great. My only gripe is that the three branches take place during slightly different eras. It's a bit disconcerting, as a player, to be in a game where the future history is already written (even if the GM assures you it ain't writ in stone, depending on the PCs).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3673 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3675 of 6731 Reply

Re: intimidation skill leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 12/21/00 5:59 pm
If the group were fair to good role-players, no such 'skill' would be necessary..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3655 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3676 of 6731 Reply

Re: intimidation skill shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/21/00 10:12 pm
Let's assume that both players are good role players .. as a DM you have three options: (In my order of preference)
(1) Have them role play the situation from start to finish. If both are good role players, the "intimidator" will have a good chance of persuading the "intimidatee" regardless of what the player wants his PC to do.
(2) Allow one to attempt to "intimidate" the other, and let them role play it out according to the results of the die roll.
(3) Do not allow the use of skills such as intimidate by PC's against PC's.

If they are average or worse role players, option one is unlikely to work without DM intervention (ie: "do you really think your character is that strong-willed?", etc.) .. option two is questionable, depending upon the maturity of the two .. option three avoids confrontation, encourages role-playing PC interaction (as opposed to "roll-playing"), but doesn't take into account parts of the PC's background, personality, etc. in their interaction.

I think I would allow it, but I would definitely make them roleplay it instead of rolling dice to determine the result.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3675 by leeok31

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Message 3677 of 6731 Reply

New Club Post Magic Items lysasius
(30/M/Holly Springs) 12/22/00 12:46 am
Now Share Magical items from your campaign online!!!
Thought it would be cool if we could all share magical items online from our campaigns. What is your favorite magic item? What can it do? What is the history? Post here .... Clubs not for discussion just a place to post and share gaming material!!!!!

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/legendlore


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Message 3678 of 6731 Reply

Re: Campaign Word of Valla Morr (spam?) johnny_lingster
12/22/00 7:46 am
How could this be spam if it's only on 3 clubs? that's not all of them. I missed a whole lot for that reason. I wanted to see what people thought about it....

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3672 by madteuton

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Message 3679 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/22/00 9:31 am
Teuton,

You're not on the payroll of the Wagner Appreciation Society are you?

Umbratikus the Inquisitive

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3667 by madteuton

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Message 3680 of 6731 Reply

Re: Classic movies for ya'll madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/22/00 9:35 am
*LOL*

Is there such an organization? Perhaps I should join.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3679 by Umbratikus

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Message 3681 of 6731 Reply

Re: Campaign Word of Valla Morr (spam?) Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/22/00 9:44 am
Actually I liked the site. Years ago when I had this thing called free time, I used to put out a newsletter that went out to everyone who ever played in my campaign. It kept people updated on what was going on currently in my campaign, and the current players enjoyed reading my often witty interpretations of their endeavors. Your site reminded me of my old newsletters. I also used to put rumors in the newsletter that the current players could possibly benefit from. I also put news of the campaign world that wasn't directly related to the party's current situation, but it added color to the campaign, and sometimes filtered into gaming sessions. You might think about adding those to your site. The players liked it and I feel the entire campaign benefitted from it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3678 by johnny_lingster

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Message 3682 of 6731 Reply

Re: Campaign Word of Valla Morr (spam?) madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/22/00 10:53 am
<<, I used to put out a newsletter that went out to everyone who ever played in my campaign>>

What a fabulous idea!! Hmm...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3681 by Umbratikus

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Message 3683 of 6731 Reply

WotC Alignment Test Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/22/00 1:45 pm
Has anyone checked out the online alignment test on the WotC site? Not bad. I think I will have my players take it this weekend and see what develops.


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Message 3684 of 6731 Reply

Re: WotC Alignment Test madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/22/00 1:53 pm
Wow, sounds cool. Can you provide a link?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3683 by Umbratikus

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Message 3685 of 6731 Reply

Re: WotC Alignment Test Ima_Doppleganger
12/22/00 4:22 pm
Ha - http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20001222b

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3684 by madteuton

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Message 3686 of 6731 Reply

Re: New Club Post Magic Items a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 12/22/00 11:14 pm
do artifacts and relics count? i have one, that might inspire someone. im working on a big magic item, too, invented by the bad quy in my campaign.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3677 by lysasius

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Message 3687 of 6731 Reply

Conversions Evertree
12/23/00 1:28 pm
I've been a AD&D (2e) Dm for about 10 years and I have a couple of worlds, some short stories, and TONS of NPC's and characters that I love.

I was wondering if there was a conversion system for changing 2E to 3E? It just seems like a whole lot of work to go through all the effort if there is a system already in place.

A couple things that interest me in general are:
-ability score
-character kit abilities and penalties
-suggestions about player's option trade-off's (light weight armor users getting -2 AC bonus)
-multiclass level adjustments

Just wondering if anyone has any useful information or some opinions on the problem of updating.


E.


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Message 3688 of 6731 Reply

Re: Conversions Evertree
12/23/00 1:40 pm
Oh yeah, I forgot some:

-ARMOR CLASS conversions. It seems like 20 - (3E AC) = 2E AC.
-Magical weapon bonuses. Is +5 still tops?
-Hit points seem to be somewhat skewed too

Thanks


E.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3687 by Evertree

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Message 3689 of 6731 Reply

Re: Conversions Ima_Doppleganger
12/23/00 2:09 pm
Here is the link to Wizards of the Coast Conversion section. From here you can find the instructions to convert Characters, Modules, Monsters ect.

Caveat: Just visiting this site should fill up your weekend enough to really piss off your family for the Holidays. ;-D

http://www.wizards.com/rpga/lc/conversion.asp

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3687 by Evertree

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Message 3690 of 6731 Reply

Re: Conversions Ima_Doppleganger
12/23/00 2:44 pm
>>ARMOR CLASS <<

It’s still; base AC 10, just give a +1 for every -1 from before.

AC 5 is now AC 15
AC 0 is now AC 20
AC -5 is now AC 25
AC -10 is now AC 30
ect.

Get it?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3688 by Evertree

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Message 3691 of 6731 Reply

Re: Conversions a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 12/23/00 3:06 pm
if your gonna convert 2 to 3, i suggest buying the 3d phb, instal the program from the cd that comes with it, and find the conversion manual. youll need adobe acrobat reader to see it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3687 by Evertree

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Message 3692 of 6731 Reply

Re: Conversions a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 12/23/00 3:07 pm
the top fro magic is i think +4 or +6 i dont no, if oget, excuse my solpy spelying im typaing fast to jady.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3688 by Evertree

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Message 3693 of 6731 Reply

christmas eve a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 12/24/00 1:54 am
merry christmas eve!


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Message 3694 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 12/24/00 1:54 am
sorry to all who dont celebrate christmas.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3693 by a_d_ddude

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Message 3695 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve Myrkul999
(22/M/Ft. Lauderdale, FL) 12/24/00 8:05 am
No Problem. Merry Yule. ;)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3694 by a_d_ddude

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Message 3696 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 12/24/00 1:22 pm
Merry Yule... Merry Christmas... Merry Kwanzaa... Merry Ramadan... Happy Hanukkah... Merry Fulgar-God of Earth, Protection, and Juctice Day!

Sanguinarius

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3695 by Myrkul999

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Message 3697 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/24/00 4:08 pm
peaceful (3 days after) solstice ..

(or the classic non-secular catch-all)

Happy Holidays

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3696 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3698 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve Ima_Doppleganger
12/24/00 4:33 pm
You forgot about "Festivus" for the rest of us!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3696 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3699 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/24/00 5:20 pm
Just to make it easy, since I've been typing this alot today...

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! Not get friggin' drunk and have lots of fun ;-)

-K6
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3698 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3700 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/24/00 5:20 pm
I meant now get drunk...

Damn TYPOS!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3699 by knightmare6

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Message 3700 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 12/24/00 5:20 pm
I meant now get drunk...

Damn TYPOS!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3699 by knightmare6

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Message 3701 of 6731 Reply

Re: christmas eve Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 12/24/00 5:37 pm
Happy Holidays to all!!!

Try not to get in to much trouble.

Off we go to the relatives.

Someone toss me a sword to fall on

JOYEOUS NOEL

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3700 by knightmare6

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Message 3702 of 6731 Reply

Little Help? wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 12/25/00 5:48 am
plz answer this in 2nd ed rules if they apply cos we havent changed yet.

The priest in my pary decided to try his luck on a deck of many things, he came off for the worst and his alingment was changed from lg to ne, he worshiped a lg god. Would his powers be denied to him by the god because he isnt lg anymore?


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Message 3703 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/25/00 9:22 am
wren .. I would say this would have to depend on the player, how well he plays the alignment change, and the diety and religion (whether the rules are strict, or if "good intentions" count)

IMHO, and alignment change should not be an instantaneous occurance, even with the fabled "Deck of Many Things".

If the player starts acting out on his new-found evil tendancies, then he should start getting warnings and losing powers .. if he plays the inner conflict well, and truly does his best to be good, then I would allow some divine intervention and slowly shift his alignemnt back to something more appropriate to his religion (maybe even stopping at LN, TN or NG, since now that he has seen how the other side lives, he may not be able to go back 100%).

good luck

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3702 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3704 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 12/25/00 12:20 pm
Obviously.. At the very least, the god would require pennance - something to bring the character's alignment back in line.. Some sort of quest, perhaps..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3702 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3705 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 12/25/00 6:11 pm
<>

I would not allow him access to any skills until he has proven atonement to his god. For such a swing from LG to NE I would have either a really hard quest or something like turn every magical item and every gold piece over to his church.

This is the breaks of playing with the deck.

I definitely wouldn't let him off with anything less.


Sir Nyvek Most Holy Order Of the Rubber Chicken

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3702 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3706 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? lysasius
(30/M/Holly Springs) 12/25/00 10:26 pm
I agree with the quest suggested prior as a way for the player to regain his powers. However, I feel that Alignment is nothing more than a state of mind. A deck of many things would instantly change this state of mind to make the character Evil and to his comrades obviously Crazy and Very sick. Forgiveness on the players Deity's side is up to the DM but if one plays with Fire (Deck of Many Things) then one will get burnt. I would make him pay and then provide a direct intervention of his church to help bring him back to the light. Depending on what deity the player worships this could be very VERY VERY VERY FUN for the DM. :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3702 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3707 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 12/26/00 7:40 am
one problem with that
he lost all his magical items and real wealth and property on the cards too....the only good thing he got was +2 wisdom...now he has 20.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3705 by Draco77

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Message 3708 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 12/26/00 7:51 am
A priest with an 18 wisdom playing with a deck like a deck of playing cards? If *I* was his diety, he would suffer immensely - not only would he lose access to spells, he would be sent on a hard quest.

But as someone said, with the change of attitude, etc., that comes with alignment change, I don't think he'd want to appease a god of another alignment.. especially a neutral evil.. Perhaps he should seek another diety for his spells - an evil one = and perhaps this *new* deity would require a quest to prove his loyalty.. In any event, a quest should be involved.

As brash a player as he sounds like, he'd probably scrap the character and make another - always an option..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3707 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3709 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 12/26/00 9:07 am
<<<<....the only good thing he got was +2 wisdom...now he has 20. >>>>

IMHO
That could be a possibiltiy, have his diety remove the +2 to wisdom (how wise can he be if he drew more than one card) and then have him go on a quest. I know this sounds harsh but, a deck of many things, players should try to avoid.



Nyvek Dealer will take 3, what did I just say?

aaaaggggghhhhhhh

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3707 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3710 of 6731 Reply

Our Campaign Calitrojan
12/26/00 3:07 pm
My group and I have decided to make an attempt at broadening the scope of our campaign, so we want to extend out an offer ot all of your struggling DMs who want the flavor of a Homebrewed campaign, but wish the work wasn't so hard.

We want to establisha Living Campaign, similar to the WotC's Living Greyhawk. I have completed a guide to the campaign world and can discuss regional guidelines and whatnot with anyone interested.

If I can get some interest we will have monthly newsletters, the DM's will have complete control over the events of their regions, though a timeline of major occurences will be provded to the DMs in the newsletter.

Let me know if you are interested in bring your group onto this project, calitrojan@yahoo.com


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Message 3711 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? mstrauss3
(27/M/Denver, Co) 12/26/00 3:09 pm
I agree, if the character wishes to appease his current deity, a difficult quest and a determined effort to changed alignment in order to get new spells and powers. Or a quest to find, appease and join a new religion in order to acquire new spells and powers. He probably should not get xp until he has completed one or the other.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3709 by Draco77

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Message 3712 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 12/26/00 3:45 pm
>>>Or a quest to find, appease and join a new religion >>>


I don't know if I would allow him to just switch Diety's either. The Diety the one he left for another probably would not be to pleased with it. In my world, there is very little, if any divine intervention, though in this case I am sure there would be retribution for casting away one diety.

They are vain and arrogant and would not allow one to gain at there loss

Nyvek (dodging lightning bolts)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3711 by mstrauss3

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Message 3713 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 12/26/00 3:48 pm
but in my way of thinking, the deity has already lost the pc.. when the alignment changed.. the retribution is the quest, etc., the pc would have to undergo to gain back the diety.. they are vain and arrogant, and one stupid mortal wouldn't weigh much in the grand scheme of things..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3712 by Draco77

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Message 3714 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Ima_Doppleganger
12/26/00 4:45 pm
Now, just because you changed alignment, doesn’t necessarily mean your still going to be a cleric. The player could assume that the change had come about after a disillusionment of the former religion. they might not want anything to do with religion at all, and change class, or stop adventuring all together.
And , what makes the character think the "New" religion would want him to begin with? The new Chaotic Evil religion might just take whatever information it could about the Lawful Good religion and dispose of the character at a later date. Either way, the character’s adventuring day’s might be drastically restricted. As for a subtle change, why would the old Deity grant spells to the character? And the character wouldn’t have a "New" deity that would grant them. Ah, such a conundrum.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3712 by Draco77

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Message 3715 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 12/26/00 6:12 pm
thanks for all your help ppl ive got some ideas.

I cant really send him off on a quest cos we are nearing the end of The Night Below campaign. I think the class change sudgested by ima will be worth a try.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3714 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3716 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 12/26/00 6:34 pm
another idea for the charater could be that he has cast off the idea of worshiping a diety at all.. as was the case wayyyy back in original d&d, there are some clerics who dedicate themselves to their alighnment rather than to a religion. i know it's about as popular as the idea of a non-religious, simply pure and true warrior type paladin, but it can be done.

however, i'm not so sure a PC dedicated to pure evil would be quite workable. lol

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3715 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3717 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 12/26/00 10:11 pm
<<>>

But most dieties are vain enough that their noses would get out of joint if one of their mortals goes to one of their rivals. IMHO i think a god would want to do something or he would look impotent in other gods eyes. He could care less for the mortal, but would care very much what he looked like to his peers.


Nyvek The Most Holy Order of the Rubber Chicken

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3713 by leeok31

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Message 3718 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/27/00 12:26 pm
To my mind, a *good* god would not turn his back on even (especially) a lost member of His flock.

Also, look to the Christian saints as an example (if we must). There would be those who would say that the Christian god *chose* them to represent His virtues on earth. As most gods choose not to intervene directly in the affairs of the world, they will certainly choose mortal individuals (especially their own priests) to show Their divine glory/power/grace on earth... whatever. To represent Them on Earth. And, ideally, to influence others. A pious priest, I would imagine, would not be a commodity a god would just let slip away without asserting especial attention.

The Odyssey comes to mind while trying to think of God-inspired/guided/motivated quest ideas.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3713 by leeok31

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Message 3719 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Ima_Doppleganger
12/27/00 2:29 pm
I would think it would be more of a Lawful god that would be the possessive kind.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3718 by madteuton

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Message 3720 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/27/00 2:35 pm
I don't think "possessive" accurately characterizes what I was getting at, Slime-a.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3719 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3721 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Ima_Doppleganger
12/27/00 2:57 pm
>>Slime-a<< ? You have got to get a better writer.

I was referring to the fact IMHO, that a Chaotic or neutral god wouldn't pay that much attention, or be that concerned, whereas, a lawful god would be more possessive and / or jealous of there Clerics drifting away, especially if the Cleric had been "Stolen" by a magic item.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3720 by madteuton

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Message 3722 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/27/00 3:00 pm
I'm inclined to disagree ... so disagree with you. Even chaotic and neutral gods have need for heralds and representatives in the world. Unless you're talking about an oblivious god, akin to HP Lovecraft's Cthulhu.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3721 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3723 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 12/27/00 3:47 pm
<<<. Even chaotic and neutral gods have need for heralds and representatives >>>


I would think it would be more of I can't let him take my Priest It would make me look weak and foolish. The thought of the preists welfare, I don't think, would even cross his mind!


Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3722 by madteuton

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Message 3724 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/27/00 3:51 pm
Well, concern for the priest's welfare, but from a strictly Self-concerned stand-point, perhaps. "I can't let something happen to Brother Such-n-Such! He has a way with bending the king's ear to My designs," and so forth.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3723 by Draco77

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Message 3725 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? djinnrutger
12/27/00 5:14 pm
Not that i have much room to talk, i have only been in this group a little while... but it is my understanding that a cleric recives their special power by worshiping a certain deity. if they quit worshiping they loose those powers. now then problem at hand...would that deity care? if it was a high priest probably so...but i wouldnt think that a diety would really trouble themselves over a low level >10 cleric. The deity would leave that up to the church...which is a diffrent problem altogether.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3721 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3726 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/27/00 5:18 pm
Valid point, djinnrutger. Welcome a-board.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3725 by djinnrutger

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Message 3727 of 6731 Reply

Im looking 4 players port,me Porthos_GCF
(33/M/Maine) 12/27/00 5:35 pm
Hi I'm starting an AD&D game to play every weekend and am looking for new players. I'm located near mercy hospital in portland,maine i live on metros route 8 line so transportation should be ok.

you can email me at
giovano@mail.com or porthos@onf.com


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Message 3728 of 6731 Reply

Re: Im looking 4 players port,me madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/27/00 5:41 pm
I'll meet you half way. How 'bout we all meet each week in Connecticut somewhere?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3727 by Porthos_GCF

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Message 3729 of 6731 Reply

Re: Im looking 4 players port,me Porthos_GCF
(33/M/Maine) 12/27/00 6:09 pm
w eould but i dont have a car to go outside of the portland, me area. thanks for your reply

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3728 by madteuton

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Message 3730 of 6731 Reply

greetings all dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/27/00 6:52 pm
I'm also looking for players and or DM's to start up a new group rookies and vetern players are welcome ..... the eastern greater cleveland area ohio example Mentor eculid Mayfield etc... area or around there ... drop me a line in yahoo messenger if you intrusted and we will see form there if I'm to dm no more then 5 to 6 others players depending on gaming experience !!


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Message 3731 of 6731 Reply

Re: Campaign Word of Valla Morr (spam?) johnny_lingster
12/27/00 8:05 pm
Good idea, there are things that will happen in the campaign world that the PC's won't actually create... or be affected by until sometime in the future... :)

Plus, I've got so many things that if they do the right thing, it could affect later sessions, or if the do the wrong thing, it could adversly affect later sessions...

Like the dragon they met (at second level). If they killed it, a different situation would arise later when they meet the parents. Or if they freed it, another set of situations could have happened. Or even if they left it chained up (which is what they did) it could also create a whole lot more things to happen to them.

Someone told me that I'm out to kill my players... Nah, they do well enough on thier own.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3681 by Umbratikus

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Message 3732 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 12/27/00 8:37 pm
im not sure because i dont have my d&d stuff with me. i dont think so, as ... wait, neutral evil? oops, i though it was neutral neutral. forget my little rant and they would be revoked

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3702 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3733 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 12/27/00 9:02 pm
Well if anyone wants to know. The God He Worships/Worshiped is Tyr, God Of Justice and such in the forgotten realms.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3732 by a_d_ddude

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Message 3734 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 12/28/00 9:22 am
"I can't let something happen to Brother Such-n-Such! He has a way with bending the king's ear to My designs," and so forth. >>>


Exactly !!!


Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3724 by madteuton

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Message 3735 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/28/00 1:59 pm
I would base what would happen on the desires of the PC. Does the PC want to remain a priest of Tyr, or does he want to go ahead and relish in his new alignment? If he wants to go back, he could pray to Tyr and ask for help during his "time of troubles." Then he might be visited by a representative of his god, perhaps in a dream, and be told what he needs to do. Perhaps he might slowly revert back to his original alignment over a period of time, based on actions he performs or pennances he can perform while in the underdark. Perhaps he would be required to make wisdom checks to see if his evil aligment takes over in given situations. There might even be a penalty, like permanent wisdom loss or level loss.

If he wants to stay evil. He could continue on as a cleric without spells or special abilities (a really weak fighter, IOW), or he could seek out another faith that would accept his alignment. I think the evil religion would relish the thought of taking another one from the "other side." Perhaps he could begin at a lower casting level, and increase these over time to where he would normally be.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3733 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3736 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/29/00 8:14 am
If he desired to choose another faith in accord with his new alignment (or should I say malignment), he probably wouldn't just regain the ability to cast spells in the name of the new deity. He would need to be accepted into that church by the clergy, and then spend months, maybe years, learning the tenets of his new faith, learning customs, rituals, etc. You could rule that he starts off with the abilities of a 1st level priest, with an accelerated advancement rate.

Like a quest, this would be difficult if not impossible to acheive in his current situation. About the only things he can do right now is stay an evil spell-less cleric, or start praying to Tyr to learn ways of atonement in his current environment. However if he is evil, he might rebel against Tyr, even though he thinks he is trying to attone. His heart might be saying one thing while his mind another. I would use serious wisdom checks here. Anyway, good luck.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3735 by Umbratikus

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Message 3737 of 6731 Reply

Book Of Artifacts Bane1975
(25/M/Central Kentucky) 12/29/00 9:29 am
I'm looking for an item in the Book Of Artifacts. It's a sword from the world of Athas, there are three at one time, Silencer of Bodach, Scorge of Rkard, and the one in the book of artifacts that I can't remember the name of. If someone has this could they please send me a copy of this item, the name may have something to do with "trolls", it was created for Hamanu of Urik by Rajatt. Thank you for your time.


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Message 3738 of 6731 Reply

Re: Book Of Artifacts dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 12/29/00 9:51 am
I 'll look it up asap but remind me in yahoo messenger to send you the 411

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3737 by Bane1975

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Message 3739 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/29/00 10:40 am
<<(or should I say malignment)>>

Does that make the good alignments *benignments*???

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3736 by Umbratikus

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Message 3740 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 12/29/00 2:31 pm
<>

Ha! Then what would Neutral alignments be? Nullignments?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3739 by madteuton

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Message 3741 of 6731 Reply

Re: Little Help? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 12/29/00 2:34 pm
Only if being Neutral implies a lack of alignment, I suppose.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3740 by Umbratikus

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Message 3742 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? helixgames
12/29/00 5:32 pm
I view being "Neutral" as fluid conditon. What I mean is it depends on the current situation surrounding the character. A Neutral character must flow between all alignments with only one goal in mind...BALANCE ! One minute the Neutral character might oppose the evil wizard which threatens the kingdom....only one year later help over throw the restraining laws of the monarch.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3741 by madteuton

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Message 3743 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Ima_Doppleganger
12/29/00 11:16 pm
One minute the Neutral character might oppose the evil wizard which threatens the kingdom....only one year later help over throw the restraining laws of the monarch.<<

Only if the Character is a Cleric of a Neutral Deity.
A neutral Character would have little regard for maintaining the Balance, they would not only, not, try to maintain the Balance, they wouldn’t care either way if it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3742 by helixgames

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Message 3744 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? helixgames
12/30/00 9:50 am
You might be a good "doppleganger" but not a good DM ! First of all what I offered was my "opinion". Any...I say again....ANY rules are for interpetation by the GM to include, modify and change for his/her world. The true mark of gamemaster craftsmanship. Secondly, if you have read 3E closely (page 89 players handbook), you will see that the designers at WoTC agree with my basic premise; "They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run. They see good, evil, law and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes." I would argue that in order to view the world this way one must look at what you said so flippantaly as the grand scheme of things.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3743 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3745 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 12/30/00 11:22 am
relax helix.. put down your sword. i'm sure Ima meant no offense.. and as you just said, it's up to everyone to run their game as they see fit.

as for neutrality.. the most slippery alignment of them all. i can see the arguments for aggressive neutrality, the Balancers.. if anyone else here remembers He-Man, Zodak was a perfect agressive neutral.. always striving to maintain a balance, whether it be at the cost of the side of evil, or of good regardless. d&d examples would include the formentioned cleric of a true neutral diety, or an old-fashioned druid.

however as someone else mentioned, either in this club or another, that the old marvel comic character Watcher would be true neutral.. however, he is passive neutral.. never interefering in either side.

the other sort of neutral could be the opportunistic neutral.. the kind of person who is neutral because they don't care about law vs chaos, good vs evil, but what works for them. they're not necessarily selfish, but look out for their own self interest. animals fall into this category. so do some people

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3744 by helixgames

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Message 3746 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 12/30/00 11:29 am
crap.. hit post accidentally, lol

the kind of person who is neutral because they don't care about law vs chaos, good vs evil, but what works for them. they're not necessarily selfish, but look out for their own self interest. animals fall into this category. so do some people.

people like this can be of just about any alignment they chose when they chose.. they can be chaotic good when it suits them, or lawful if need be, etc. the most important part to them is wtching out for themselves and their friends, if so inclined. neutral player characters of this sort (probably the only viable neutral sort of PC, although barely) would probably be less likely to resort to evil, but that's true of most players in general.. however, i'm sure any neutral/selfish npcs you might run could be free of such scruples..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3745 by Shabooah

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Message 3747 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 12/30/00 12:05 pm
The only viable neutral sort of PC..? I think I have to take umbrage to that..lol.. I ran a neutral Druid, and received praise for displaying neutrality so well. I generally let the party do what they wanted, advising this, that, or the other - I was the wisest, after all.. but they never listened to the druid.. I considered him more concerned with the grand scheme. The politics of this city or the population of evil didn't really concern him, just the effect of those on the natural world around them. He trusted the balance. While strolling through an enclave of orcs, he might get disgusted, but he knew there was a similar enclave of good out there somewhere that might be just as irksome - the balance.. Neutral can be played many ways, and they can all be right - depends on the personality and experiences of the Druid, which might shape his world view, but won't necessarily affect his alignment..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3746 by Shabooah

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Message 3748 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Ima_Doppleganger
12/30/00 9:23 pm
I stated:

>>Only if the Character is a Cleric of a Neutral Deity.
A neutral Character would have little regard for maintaining the Balance, they would not only, not, try to maintain the Balance, they wouldn’t care either way if it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. <<

I did check out the PHB pg 89.

Quote:

A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn’t feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to god vs. Evil or law vs. Chaos. Most neutrality is a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality.

Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run.

The common phrase for neutral is "true Neutral"
Neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you act naturally, with out prejudice or compulsion.

End Quote

My statement follows the first paragraph, and, as I stated, the second paragraph would apply to a Cleric.

I don’t know why you feel so threatened by a (supported) opinion other than your own, however, WoTC dose not support your view;

>>"They see good, evil, law and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes"<<
as well as your first misstatement

>> A Neutral character must flow between all alignments with only one goal in mind...BALANCE !<<


These are NOWHERE IN THE BODY OF THE TEXT on pg 89, or anywhere else for that matter. If your going to quote a source that everyone else has, you should at least try to get it right.

Ima

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3744 by helixgames

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Message 3749 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? helixgames
12/30/00 10:10 pm
Are you high ? I mean you restated my quote perfectly. At the top of page 89 it DOES SAY "Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. " Just as I said...so blow it out of your ass and you get it right !

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3748 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3750 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? helixgames
12/30/00 10:19 pm
On second thought..NEVER MIND. I will no longer waste any time arguging with someone who is willing to strike down opinions with faulty logic and act the imbecile by restating of the points of argument (those words can be found in the Websters).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3749 by helixgames

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Message 3751 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 12/30/00 10:31 pm
What crawled up your butt? Your copy of the piece of PHB says Some. You attest this to mean All. It describes two different sorts of druid when I read it, one on either end of the spectrum, so to speak.

Can't we all just get along..?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3750 by helixgames

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Message 3752 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Ima_Doppleganger
12/31/00 12:14 am
You said :
>> A Neutral character must flow between all alignments with only one goal in mind...BALANCE !<<

Where does it say that?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3750 by helixgames

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Message 3753 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Ima_Doppleganger
12/31/00 12:17 am
And, I never struck down your opinion, I just stated mine. Your the one attempting to strike down an opposing opinion.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3750 by helixgames

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Message 3754 of 6732 Reply

the Ruins of Myth Drannor Ima_Doppleganger
12/31/00 12:45 am
Has anyone DMed "the Ruins of Myth Drannor" boxed set? I DM’ed it about 5 years ago and the entire party (8th -11th level) died. I gave them a lot of help, but the module seems to play very, very difficult. My players want to go back in again, so, I was wondering if anyone has run it and could give me some tips on how to convince the players to not head straight to the heart of the city. I have tried telling them as much as I thought fair, however, if anyone posts a few tips, I’ll show them to my players, and hopefully they’ll get the hint.


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Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 12/31/00 10:18 am
How about lining a bunch of saw horses across the road, with a yellow octagonal sign saying, 'Don't be Stupid'....?

It worked for me once..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3754 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3756 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor Ima_Doppleganger
12/31/00 4:16 pm
lol... I'll have to remember that one, to be sure.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3755 by leeok31

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Message 3757 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 12/31/00 4:51 pm
I have Neutral Paladins keep the balance - it works well if you can deny them spells if they don't maintain alignment.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3748 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3758 of 6732 Reply

Happy New Years!!! knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 1/1/01 3:04 am
Just wanted to wish everybody in this club a happy new years!

Hope you guys had fun whether it was at a party, gaming, or whatever!!!

From your friends at "All the Planes Come Calling"!!!
-K6
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling


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Message 3759 of 6732 Reply

Howdy! Map Making greenmage8
(37/M/Watertown/Boston Mass) 1/1/01 10:11 am
ANybody know an on-line or downloadeable tool for making maps? with grids or without? Starting a campaigna nad want to get some done for the victims er players to use. Thanks!


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Message 3760 of 6732 Reply

Re: Howdy! Map Making amra11_2000
(33/M/Haverhill, MA) 1/1/01 6:50 pm
Your best bet would be Campaign Cartographer.
You can download a demo at their web site.
I think it is Profantasy.com.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3759 by greenmage8

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Message 3761 of 6732 Reply

Re: Howdy! Map Making helixgames
1/1/01 7:23 pm
I would love to help....email me and I will send you the info. I know of a free "planet builder" system and a "realm auto maper". Each is share whare so its free ! I would tell you on this pathetic thread but the last time I attempted to express my opinion I was ambused and ambushed by a bunch of folk who NEED A LIFE !

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3760 by amra11_2000

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Message 3762 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Neutrality Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/2/01 9:22 am
I think everything that needs to be said about neutrality has been said. Great explanation by Shabooah, btw. There are so many different ways to play a Neutral character, and all the ways can be right. A character that all the time strives to maintain balance between all the alignments is unrealistic. Possible, but unrealistic. More often than not, a Neutral character feels one way on some issues, but other opposing ways on other issues (sort of like a pro-life Democrat). They may not even see the grand scheme, just the personal one. As long as they are happy and healthy, and life is generally peachy for them, they could care less about good, evil, law, and chaos.

Also, animals fall into Neutrality not because they are self serving. Alignment is basically a Moral derivative. Morality is a product of thinking creatures. Animals aren't burdened by morality, and thus are "alignmentless," and best described as Neutral.

P.S. Helix, my friend, you need to chill out a little. You jumped on the defensive, when no one was attacking you. This club is, and always has been (at least in the five or so years I have been a member) a place where opinions are given, discussed, debated, and often contradicted. This is done not to offend, but to gain a better understanding of the game and all it includes, and to make us better DMs. If you are easily offended when someone disagrees with you, this might not be the best place for you to be. Just put down your sword and go with the flow a little.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3753 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3763 of 6732 Reply

Re: Howdy! Map Making(Opinions) Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 1/2/01 9:58 am
I was ambused and ambushed by a bunch of folk who NEED A LIFE ! >>>


I didn't see any ambush, what I saw was several people (including you) stating their opinions. There needs to be a little less name calling and more acting like intelligent adults.

If you want to be part of the discussions please feel free to add to it.

If you don't like name calling, then I would suggest you stop it yourself.

I read these posts,like most people to learn more about the game. Not to listen to a pissing contest.

This is my most humble opinion

Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3761 by helixgames

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Message 3764 of 6732 Reply

Re: Howdy! Map Making CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 1/2/01 10:11 am
There is a great freeware program called grid ( I think the current version is 3.81) for making hexmaps. Even can save them as metafiles for importing to DTP software. There are a lot of pre-fab hexes, and you can design your own. I don't recall the website, but links to it can be found on several pages of the Gammaworld Webring. It is a DOS program, but works even better (for some wierd reason even the author can't explain) through the msdos window of win95/98.

I also use a graphpaper printer which is a freeware program to make specialty paper to draw my own maps. This too can be imported to DTP software. The webpage for this program is : http://perso.easynet.fr/~philimar/

There are also online tools and prefab maps at www.irony.com through irony games.

I hope this helps.

CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3759 by greenmage8

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Message 3765 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/2/01 10:40 am
Hmmm - I tried to DM it, but my players (2 groups in a FR Campaign which ran for 6 years) figured it was WAY too dangerous to go there. I couldn't convince them otherwise - they were probably right.... after all, if the rest of the FR was such a dangerous place what chance did they have going to a place full of Tanarii and Baatezu (sp) and Gods know what else . . . Sigh . . . I really did want to see if they would survive - oh well.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3754 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3766 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/2/01 11:18 am
Dude! Does somebody needs a nap and a diaper-change?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3750 by helixgames

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Message 3767 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/2/01 12:15 pm
bummer dude I would have gone there no problem I do enjoy a challenge and i have the perfect charter from 2nd edtion for it !! what levels is it for ?? i figure high level

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3765 by karrakain

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Message 3768 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/2/01 12:16 pm
you can always use the classic thief in the night steals a very important item and leads them to the ares you like them to explore first?
I'd love to play in the adventure

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3754 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3769 of 6732 Reply

Re: Howdy! Map Making(Opinions) dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/2/01 12:18 pm
i agree with you whole hardly !!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3763 by Draco77

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Message 3770 of 6732 Reply

Re: Howdy! Map Making(Opinions) madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/2/01 12:19 pm
*hee-hee*, "whole hardly". Good one.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3769 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3771 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Neutrality dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/2/01 2:04 pm
Neutrality is explained best buy looking at a politican

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3762 by Umbratikus

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Message 3772 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Neutrality madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/2/01 3:07 pm
What country you live in? I think "Politician" is an evil fighter kit, isn't it?

;-p

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3771 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3773 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Sir_Bluetooth
(21/M/Kearney, NE) 1/2/01 3:19 pm
>>Dude! Does somebody needs a nap and a diaper-change?<<

Madteuton, if you really need a diaper change I could probibly accomidate you, but only if you will fit in size four diapers, as that is all I have on hand. I am sure my daughter would not mind my letting you have one. The nap part you are on your own for though, as I cant seem to find enough time for one myself.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3766 by madteuton

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Message 3774 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Neutrality Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 1/2/01 3:34 pm
Neutrality is explained best buy looking at a politican >>>


I think most politicians fall under NE or atleast LE. Most,not all, fall under whatever is best for them or their careers comes first then the common good next. I believe we see enough of that in American Politics.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?

His lips are moving!


Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3771 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3776 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor Ima_Doppleganger
1/2/01 4:01 pm
That's the problem, you can kill a party at any level! 3rd level (you *will* advance in levels just getting there) in the outskirts, 10th +++ inside. The party just doesn't take the "legends" seriously, unless you read the module, you can't grasp how difficult it is, and how great the rewards are. If you, as a player, role play total paranoia (playing a 10th level character as a 1st level character) your not going to survive, the best concept for it is the opening scenes from "Terminator", where the humans hide from everything.
That’s the hard part, "Your a 10th level Bad A$$, yet, you now have to hide from everything!" a tough concept to get through at best.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3767 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3777 of 6732 Reply

Re: Neutrality - politician Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 1/2/01 4:32 pm
I thought politicians were a strange form of undead, some kind of automan, a 'puppet' class for the large corporate wizards - disguised as someone who cares.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3772 by madteuton

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Message 3778 of 6732 Reply

Re: Neutrality - politician madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/2/01 4:50 pm
Aye, somehow distantly related to the Gelatinous Cube.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3777 by Eoganachta

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Message 3779 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 1/2/01 5:21 pm
Sounds like they did survive...;P I don't doubt some areas are more designed to be character killers than anything else.. maybe it was wise of them to choose against it..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3765 by karrakain

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Message 3780 of 6732 Reply

Large Group of Players dustmephit
1/2/01 8:30 pm
I am currently running a large 3rd Edition Planescape game. The only problem that I am having is managing my SEVEN players. Does anybody have any tips for dealing with a large group of players?


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Message 3781 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large Group of Players Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 1/2/01 10:30 pm
The best thing is have the party assign a 'leader' and let them talk about solutions and actions and such amongst themselves - but the final decisions all come from the 'leader'. If you, the DM, are trying to figure out what is going on with a large group of players all saying different things, it can be way to chaotic.

I think the players are happier with this situation, they can purpose ideas and deal with each other, and you can look up a table of magic item saving throws from crushing blows (or whatever) and the game still has some pace. Otherwise you will find the game comes to a grinding halt every time a door has to be opened.

might help.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3780 by dustmephit

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Message 3782 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large Group of Players a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 1/3/01 12:13 am
well, you could always throw a tarasaque at them... that'd be fun, then have some powerful wizard or cleric revive them with some sort of healing spell that requires no constitution check, and go from there, have the wizard join them as an npc, gain their trist, and then go evil on them. that'd be fun.. i think ill do it with my nine or ten players, once i gget some dungeons worked out.... hey, thats how ill introduce emrikol, my lv. 50 wiz!does anyone else use the wizard that there's a picture of in the 1st ed. dmg, and the 2nd ed.phb? hes in the phb on page 138. does anyone know anything about him? is he even emirikol, or is it one of the others in the pic? tell me!!!!!!!!!!! ive had to make it all up.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3780 by dustmephit

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Message 3783 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large Group of Players Ima_Doppleganger
1/3/01 1:36 am
Have them each roll up three characters, and then secretly change the name from "the Ruins of Myth Drannor" to, oh say, Wally World. By the end of the night, half of the players will be watching TV.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3780 by dustmephit

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Message 3784 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large Group of Players dustmephit
1/3/01 6:39 am
This has proven to be useful. The thing is, every player in the group has at least 12 years of "D&D experience" and problems of confusion really only occur when they are in a town and everybody wants to wander off in their own directions. Otherwise the "caller solution" seems to work semi-well.

One of the characters died last game due to his alignment and nature which really helped things along. I replaced the character with a pc that had and alignment more in agreement with the rest of the party. The character also had some knowledge that would prevent the players from having to deal with the unspeakably played-out "widget hunt" thus reducing the game to a blistering round of 20 questions. This was arguably the most beneficial move I have made during this campaign despite my reluctance to out and out slay pcs. Regardless, all of us seemed to enjoy watching the Lawful Good Monk get beaten to death for attempting to rescue a seven year old girl (who had been arrested for stealing half a loaf of bread for her starving family) from a patrol of Mercykillers. Such is the cost of an unbending and impossible morality....

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3781 by Eoganachta

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Message 3785 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/3/01 9:42 am
Speaking of killer dungeons, has anyone taken a look at the Apocalypse Stone yet? I read thru the first half of it. Pretty decent, but be prepared to possibly lose your campaign world.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3776 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3786 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/3/01 9:47 am
i liked another one ... Laybrith of maddness


and for the experieced group Tales of the comat blew them all away mad the game real fun

in tales you can always add the sheens to make it more fun at lower levels :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3785 by Umbratikus

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Message 3787 of 6732 Reply

2 New "Modules" dustmephit
1/3/01 9:54 am
Has anybody checked out Necromancer Games' "The Crucible of Freya" or Paradigm Concepts' "The Spear of the Lohgin"?

I was wondering if anybody had any good or bad things to say about these two new products...

-dustmephit


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Message 3788 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large Group of Players dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/3/01 9:54 am
all these ideas seem to work ... I've found when you have a large group and you reach a town it's best to run it like this ... before entering the town have them decide are where they each want to go and whether they will make it easier on you buy all going to each spot as a group or on their own .... if in a group let them figure out which spot first and so forth then take them on the way ...if on there own

I start with the left most player and work my way to each pc until i get to the last one on the right telling each what they see and so forth each round until they are all done..

an experieced group will usally work with you on things like this ... but you must remember when ever and size group reaches a town it always takes some time since PCs always have something to do in town and love to shop and cause trouble in town !! i hope this all helps

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3784 by dustmephit

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Message 3789 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/3/01 10:25 am
No. In fact, I didn't know there were any third party modules for D&D anymore. It brings me back to the old Judges Guild days. I checked them both out on the web and they look pretty good. I wonder if WotC will allow any third parties to publish 2nd edition modules for us old die hards. I doubt it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3787 by dustmephit

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Message 3790 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/3/01 10:37 am
Uh uh - they wouldn't go for ANYTHING. They had a map showing the burial grould of a Dwarven lord - with all his burial gear - Armour (Magical Full Plate), weapons etc - Just wouldn't touch it - figured that they were better off alive than Dead with lots of treasure.

Still to be fair - based on the campaign at the time I reckon they would have only had a 30% survival rate - (10th - 12th lvl characters), experienced players.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3768 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3791 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Neutrality karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/3/01 10:43 am
Nah - politician is Chaotic Evil Mage Kit

ie : Can't make up their mind, Change to a diametrically opposed view within days. (sometimes seconds), Can make immense amounts money appear (or dissappear), make detrimental figures and statistics dissappear and can change the course of a counties life with only a pen and paper as somatic components !!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3772 by madteuton

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Message 3792 of 6732 Reply

Re: the Ruins of Myth Drannor karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/3/01 10:47 am
Yeah - they went on a modified version of the Temple of Elemental evil - it was safer . . . . .

Sometimes the art of Surviving is knowing when to RUN AWAY !!!

Besides - I always give em a chance - they can ELECT to go to sucidal areas and I won't stop them. I'll just give them all the rope they need . . . .

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3779 by leeok31

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Message 3793 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large Group of Players karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/3/01 10:54 am
With Large groups of players you can't afford to be too lax in controlling the game - things should be done strictly by the numbers (to enable some form of control).

ie: During a combat don't just let every one yell out what they are doing - go around the table one by one and get them to declare actions (or write a note) THEN resolve initiative - do this every round.

Don't be too afriad of telling them all to Shut their yaps for a bit either while you deal with someones query - It means that everyone gets their say and that you get to have everyone participate - it's easy for people to get shut out in a bigger group especially when the group has some louder people in it.

Larger games can be a lot of fun (Most I've run was 11 - but NEVER again).

Something else I have seen run quite sucessfully is having a co-DM - someone to do a lot of the number running - Monsters, or just helping rolepley certain NPC's and look up books - takes some of the leg work out of it for the DM - as long as the co-DM has been briefed properly.

Good luck . .

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3780 by dustmephit

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Message 3794 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New dustmephit
1/3/01 10:56 am
Due to the new open gaming license there are a buncha new ones:

Here are the good ones:

Penumbra (Atlas Games' line of D20 modules)
www.atlas-games.com

Green Ronin Publishing (A subsidiary of Pagan Publishing, I think. They combine Pirates and Old Ones in their Lovecraftian Fantasy setting called Freeport)
www.greenronin.com

Necromancer Games (Distributed by White Wolf but mostly independently written, the Scarred Lands setting is showing promise with a free on-line module and it's own hard back monster book. This company makes the claim, "Third Edition Rules, First Edition Feel". Since their company's emblem is good ole' Orcus, I think they may be off to a good start!)
www.necromancergames.com

Paradigm Concepts (Only one supplement from these guys so far. The Spear of the Lohgin looks pretty cool.)
www.paradigmconcepts.com

Alderac Entertainment Group (From the makers of Legend of the Five Rings, 8 new modules that are only $2.49 a pop! They are all short and sweet with a new monster, spell or magic item in every one)
www.alderac.com

Some Not-so-great Ones:

Nightshift Games (The Horror Beneath by Nightshift Games is aesthetically vile and poorly conceived. I thought that this module exhalted some of the lamest aspects of the D&D game. Of all of the things I have purchased for 3rd Ed., this is the only one I consider a total waste of money).
www.teamfrog.com

Fiery Dragon Productions (NeMoren's Vault has got to be one of the silliest things I have purchased in a long time. From the laughable cover art to the weak handouts, this module has some big problems right off the bat. However, the module's story line is at least interesting and could lay the groundwork for an excellent adventure).
www.fierydragon.com

As you can see there is a ton of stuff out and I am sure there is more to come.

-dustmephit

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3789 by Umbratikus

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Message 3795 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/3/01 11:26 am
That is too cool. TSR should have done this years ago. Opening up the market to write D&D modules can only add to the game's popularity and ultimately make more money for WotC.

Sure wish they would create a 2nd Edition license. I would love to see some fresh 2nd Edition modules. Why should WotC care since they no longer produce that product? Except that it will be another reason for us old fuddy duddies not to switch over to 3rd edition.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3794 by dustmephit

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Message 3796 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large Group of Players greenmage8
(37/M/Watertown/Boston Mass) 1/3/01 5:06 pm
The only large player game I ever played the DM had everyone players, NPCs and Monsters all make their moves according to dex. he'd call out "18!" and the thieves would go "17!" 2 of the fighters etc. Worked out fairly well, but we were all in the service and used to taking orders.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3793 by karrakain

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Message 3797 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New Calitrojan
1/3/01 5:29 pm
We recently finished the Crucible. I can safely say no one in our group liked it much. We played it as a stand alone, outside of our regular campaign. It dragged, was overly difficult at the end for the levels it was designed for, and just did not offer a lot of fun for us. (Of course none of our group is overly fond of pre-made stuff).

It did have a few nice points, like a 1st edition monster, but that was just about it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3787 by dustmephit

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Message 3798 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New dustmephit
1/3/01 6:03 pm
Cool. Thanks. It is really hard to evaluate how a module plays out by just reading it and it is nice to get worthwhile criticism so that an evening of gaming isn't wasted.

Could you explain why the end was overly difficult? I'm just curious.

-dustmephit

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3797 by Calitrojan

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Message 3799 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Neutrality Ima_Doppleganger
1/3/01 6:04 pm
>>politician is Chaotic Evil Mage Kit<<

Hillary ?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3791 by karrakain

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Message 3800 of 6732 Reply

Planescape: What do you think of it? dustmephit
1/3/01 6:05 pm
I am a huge fan of TSR's very, very discontinued Planescape setting. I was just wondering if there is anybody on this list that still writes and runs for that setting. Well...what do you think of it?

-dustmephit


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Message 3800 of 6732 Reply

Planescape: What do you think of it? dustmephit
1/3/01 6:05 pm
I am a huge fan of TSR's very, very discontinued Planescape setting. I was just wondering if there is anybody on this list that still writes and runs for that setting. Well...what do you think of it?

-dustmephit


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Message 3802 of 6732 Reply

Re: Howdy! Map Making kallussed
(22/M/Rochester Hills, Mi) 1/3/01 10:11 pm
Dungeon Crafter...

If you want to make a dungeon, this program is free and it ROCKS!

http://underworld.dfxwebs.com/crafter/

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3759 by greenmage8

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Message 3803 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: What do you think of it? dustmephit
1/3/01 11:20 pm
That's okay. But thank you for the offer. I have way too much Planescape on my plate right now. I am running the 16th session of one Planescape campaign and the 5th of another and I write (with MANY other writers)for a Planescape webpage that is currently being re-modeled: http://www.planewalker.com

I actually asked the question to see if anybody had any thoughts concerning the setting that were particularly insightful, creative or original.

Thanks again for the invite!

-dustmephit

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3801 by knightmare6

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Message 3804 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: What do you think of it? Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/4/01 8:40 am
I love the Planescape setting and my campaign drops in and out of it pretty regularly. The only things I dont like about it is A)so much of it is vague in the wrong places. I like vagarity in the role playing aspects, but sometimes important details will be omitted. Too many times I have filled in those details myself, only to be bitten at a later time when my solutions are contradicted in other material. B) I don't like the inclusion of real world mythologies. My cosmology is pretty tight, and my fantasy mythology is pure fantasy. So far I have managed to sidestep any references to real world mytological deities, sometimes by substituting gods out of my own pantheon, but if I'm not careful I could start contradicting myself. (Hey, I thought you said his realm was in Bytopia. Why is it now in Ysgard?)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3800 by dustmephit

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Message 3805 of 6732 Reply

Re: Little Help? Neutrality Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 1/4/01 9:46 am
Hillary ? >>>


CE, She does what it takes to get what she wants.
i.e. buys a home in NY to proof she's a New Yorker, Stayed with Bill to use his connections. etc..


Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3799 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3806 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: What do you think of it? dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/4/01 9:48 am
Never got to DM in it it scared my players off they didn't want to play in the setting... got to play in it though and loved it !! but the loved Ravenloft even after they ended up losing alot of pcs to powers checks before they figured out what was going on lol

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3804 by Umbratikus

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Message 3807 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: What do you think of it? dustmephit
1/4/01 10:10 am
I have found that the biggest problem with the PS setting is that players automatically assumed they are going to be overwhelmed with overpowered enemies and impossibly difficult situations. This is the aspect of that particular setting that I have found most people have a problem with and it doesn't at all have to be the case. The setting, due to gatetowns, isolated realms, and most of all Sigil, is very, very approachable. Although I am a champion of writing your own chronicles, The Eternal Boundary is an excellent introductory module for both DMs and players who are testing the waters of Planescape.

And how can you beat Tony DiTerlizzi's Illustrations?
http://www.diterlizzi.com

-dustmephit


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Message 3808 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New Calitrojan
1/4/01 10:52 am
Well at the end you are a bunch of first level characters with the assistance of the elven guard.... Lianne? I forget her name off the top of my head.

Well you arrive at this abandoned keep where the orcs are hold up and you have to search around in it to find the stolen religous relic... well there is a veritable army of orcs in that place... I could ravage the countryside with a band that big!

We were but seven players and an npc, and we were slaughtered... granted we missed that secret door that led into the keep (you miss that thing and you are especially dead) and our reconassaince did not go as planned... a lot of things did not go as planned... but even if they had, I gave us a 10% chance of living (after I read the module I was like "What the heckw ere they thinking!")

There were just not enough options for the players in the end... it was storm the castle or don't and if you miss that secret door... well then things really sucked.....bad.

we always could have just turned our backs on the whole mess (which is what the group would have done if it were not a stand alone, but tied into a campaign). I could see it being run differently (hindsight is 20/20) and being a mediocre adventure, but not much better than average... but once again I am very partial to writing my own stuff... I haveonly DMed one pre made in the last two years and that was the Burning Plague.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3798 by dustmephit

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Message 3809 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New dustmephit
1/4/01 12:41 pm
The free deal off of the WotC site? What did you think of that? I downloaded it yesterday and haven't gotten a real chance to peek through it yet. Would love to hear your insights.

I looked over Crucible last night and you are totally right. I think if the characters were possibly third or fourth level it might be a different story. The thing is, you can do much more interesting things with a party of 4th level characters than an orc-laden widget hunt!

-dustmephit

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3808 by Calitrojan

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Message 3810 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 1/4/01 1:20 pm
What free deal?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3809 by dustmephit

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Message 3811 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New Calitrojan
1/4/01 1:39 pm
Orc laden... widget hunt! just about sums it up... but I would have to say orc-infested. You know it isn't the dying I mind so much, but rather the never having a chance at success... that and the hours of dragging on in the beginning with that thing in the woods... not even close to suspenseful... we were to low of level to ever see it... and frankly I need a little visual glimpse of something moving to get excited.

Now the Burning Plague! much better for 1st level characers. I used it because I was tight up for a jumping off point for my campaign... and it fit snuggly. They started as a party of six 1st level characters and ended as a party of 3... two lost to the Plague and one to stupidity (it was our first game session with 3rd edition and he tried to swim his way out of the cave instead of going back through the infection room... he drowned ... but we all learned how to do swimming rules and what happens when you run out of air.)

Overall it was good. If you play the kobolds well, then they offer a good challenge... especially the ones on the ridge in the big room... we had a druid summon a very mean badger onto the ledge during negotiations... then they assaulted the ledge under the badgers cover... I laughed forever...

anyway... the most dangerous thing ot the party is the plague, the pit trap, Jakk, the undead, and the kobolds (in that order)... but it was fun, not terribly difficult and it had a pretty good pace, got us used to the 3rd edition rules, and well I think it was well worth what I paid for it :-)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3809 by dustmephit

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Message 3812 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New dustmephit
1/4/01 1:46 pm
Oh. Just the free adventures under the download section. There are like 6 adventures with PDF maps that you can download for free. That's all...

-dustmephit

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3810 by Draco77

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Message 3813 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New Calitrojan
1/4/01 2:29 pm
And of course if you are interested in free... I am starting up a new concept, the Living Homebrew... your group gets the feel of a homebrew and the feel of interacting with a living campaign... I would provide you with all the background you need as well as updates and new info... our web-site isn't up and running yet... but e-mail me a claitrojan@yahoo.com if you want some more infor.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3812 by dustmephit

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Message 3814 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: Eternal Boundary Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/4/01 2:46 pm
I thought the Eternal Boundary was a great adventure. It really gave the characters a feel for the place. One of the baddies in there, the dude known as the Shadowknave, became a major NPC in my campaign, both in and out of the planes. I changed him from an illusionist to a blade (bard kit) and the PCs have been chasing him for the last three years. I think they are going to actually get to confont him in our next gaming session. They have tracked him down to an old wizard's keep in the Prime, along with his band of thieves and hired thugs. They are going to try and sneak in, Mission Impossible style, and nab him. One PC is a teifling bounty hunter (thief kit) who was hired by the Harmonium to track down members of the Illuminated sect.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3807 by dustmephit

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Message 3815 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: Eternal Boundary Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/4/01 2:47 pm
I have most of the Planescape adventures written by Monte Cook and the TSR crew. Three that I am anxious to DM are Harbinger House, Faction War, and Dead Gods. All of them are excellent reads. Not sure how they will play, though.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3814 by Umbratikus

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Message 3816 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: Eternal Boundary dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/4/01 3:47 pm
cool two of my favorite kits!! I love blades and there neat littlebard spellsn hehehehe\
like silent bubble and cojure cabniet

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3814 by Umbratikus

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Message 3817 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: What do you think of it? dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/4/01 3:50 pm
true but pcs in my games tend to be pretty powerful at low levels and up to the challenge of tuff npcs and more!! All ccause i love Kits
the one thing I'll miss in 3rd edtion is the kits!!
like
blade singer
blades
war wizards
undead slayers and many more

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3807 by dustmephit

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Message 3818 of 6732 Reply

Re: 2 New dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/4/01 3:51 pm
were at ?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3812 by dustmephit

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Message 3819 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: Eternal Boundary dustmephit
1/4/01 3:59 pm
I can not even tell you how awesome Harbinger House plays. What a terrifically well written and structured adventure. I love most of the pre-generated modules for Planescape. They make a good skeleton and then you can just pile super-lush npcs, side excursions and other gratuitous detail. I never run pre-gen modules without stacking as much work on top of them as I would if I had written them from scratch. I actually prefer the writing to the running overall. My current campaign is built around Eternal Boundary into Harbinger into Faction War. I had to convert all the whole bag over to 3rd Ed but it has been very worth it so far.

I ran The Great Modron March into Dead Gods as well, that was an entirely seperate campaign, but man was that an experience. Dead Gods is some quality stuff.

I reccomend all of the above with the exception of a couple of The Great Modron March's chapters.

-dustmephit

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3815 by Umbratikus

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Message 3820 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape modules knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 1/4/01 11:04 pm
"Dead Gods" was a great run for me and my players, whereas I had a few complications with "The Great Modron March".

"Harbringer House" is a great module to run as well, since many of my PCs assumed it to be a normal asylum, hehehe...

-K6

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3819 by dustmephit

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Message 3821 of 6732 Reply

Re: Planescape: Eternal Boundary Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/5/01 8:47 am
<>

I will have to say, that Dead Gods is the most exciting and engrossing adventure module I have ever read. Now I haven't run the adventure, but man, it reads well.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3819 by dustmephit

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Message 3822 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/5/01 8:52 am
Some of my favorite kits, besides the blade and the bounty hunter, are the Gallant (bard), Assassin (thief), Acrobat (thief), and the Sea Ranger (ranger). I have also converted the various druidic branches from the Druid's Handbook into kits, so now you can have a desert druid, and arctic druid, etc.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3816 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3823 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/5/01 9:44 am
Kits? You mean Prestige Classes.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3822 by Umbratikus

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Message 3824 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/5/01 11:19 am
No. I mean Kits.

Umbratikus, old stick in the mud.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3823 by madteuton

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Message 3825 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/5/01 11:24 am
*LOL*

Then tell me, brat, what are favorite horseless carriages? Edsel?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3824 by Umbratikus

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Message 3826 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/5/01 1:07 pm
Ha!

Okay, mad, anything that gets me from point A and point B safely (and has a decent heater). Otherwise I would prefer the horsed carriages.

Umbratikus, the indignant

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3825 by madteuton

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Message 3827 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 1/5/01 1:51 pm
(and has a decent heater). Otherwise I would prefer the horsed carriages.>>>

As a fellow Ohioan, A heater is a must. The heater on a horseless carriage isn't very good.
But I digress.


Nyvek The Most Holy Order of the Rubber Chicken

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3826 by Umbratikus

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Message 3828 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/5/01 2:22 pm
<>

And as a fellow Ohioan, we could probably just go ask the Amish.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3827 by Draco77

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Message 3829 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/5/01 2:48 pm
sounds good favotite horseless carriage would have to be any spell jammer helm :)
I like your Kits but i have 2 the rule supreme Elven Blade Singer those who know it need i say mo0re those who don't well beware of them ? and the 1/2 elf aristocrat mage priest need i say more ... hey when comes to pure magic power theres no better then 1/2 elf mage priests .... who needs a weapon when you all tthat magic on you side :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3822 by Umbratikus

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Message 3830 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/5/01 3:42 pm
While I can admire the discipline it takes to insist on writing posts with your off-hand while sitting on your good one, it makes your posts difficult to read.

;-p

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3829 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3831 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 1/6/01 11:23 am
>> hey when comes to pure magic power theres no better then 1/2 elf mage priests .... who needs a weapon when you (have) all (that) magic on you(r) side :)

My favorite PC is a 1/2e C:9/MU:10 .. and I can attest to the value of a diverse spell list, but more times that I can count, my handy Heavy Flail (and "Fire Shield", of course, don't enter melee range without it) saved the day.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3829 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3832 of 6732 Reply

Re: favorite kits Draco77
(37/M/Lindenwald, Ohio) 1/6/01 10:26 pm
we could probably just go ask the Amish.
>>>>


Though their heater would be a fire.

Not real good on the carraige

Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3828 by Umbratikus

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Message 3833 of 6732 Reply

Large military conflicts crmsnshdo7
1/7/01 1:23 am
Hey all, been dming for almost 2 years now, playing a year before that but havent had something like this come up. My players are leading an army of rebels (a rebellion they themselves started) in an effort to cede from a country they've had... lets say difficulties with.Anyways what im asking is how do you vets handle large scale army battles? I'm thinking something like miniatures in a wargame style and periodically zoom in on the characters themselves for smaller scale combats. Are there any special rules? If so where can i get them? Any help is appreciated

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Message 3834 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/7/01 1:36 pm
WoW those are ways i handle them but if 2nd edtion pick up ithinks its called players combat and tactics hardcoverbook it should help you fill in the more details

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3833 by crmsnshdo7

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Message 3835 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 1/7/01 1:36 pm
There are *so* many ways you can do this.

Using minis is certainly one. There are plenty of wargaming systems out there. Battlesystem was made by TSR for this sort of thing; I don't know if anyone actually *uses* it, though. Also out of print.

There's a "storytelling" approach that's my favorite, and it works really well if the PCs are in charge of this rebellion (which they seem to be). I decide ahead of time who would win the battle if the PCs weren't there. (Probably the bad guys, or else why are the PCs involved, right?) Then I let the PCs describe to me what they want to do to help turn the tides in their favor: neutralize an enemy advantage, use magic, get the high ground, whatever. I decide if this will be enough to let them win the battle. If it's not, I let them know what sometime during the battle itself, so they have the opportunity to try some more tricks. I realize that this might not objective enough for all tastes; I sometimes have reservations about using it myself.

The PCs themselves might have goals which give you opportunities to "zoom in" on them, like killing their nemesis on the other side. Otherwise, there are a few nifty charts in places like GURPS Compendium II and the Legend of the Five Rings Player's Guide that let you roll to see what happens to a PC during a massed combat. It's assumed that they take some damage, kill some grunts, and maybe have the opportunity to duel someone or do something heroic.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3833 by crmsnshdo7

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Message 3836 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 1/7/01 3:04 pm
I myself have a complicated system which I made up myself not too long ago for that sort of thing. Each unit has an attack rating, a defensive rating, a movement rating, hit points ana a fatigue rating. I also have a system for fortifications and for trenches. If the PCs want to join in then I rule that the army is commanded by an NPC during the battle although they can make the initial plans. The battles are conducted using minatures (read bits of paper with each unit's stats on it) and you make up bonuses and penalties for good tactics or bad positioning during the game. I can email you the details if you wish.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3833 by crmsnshdo7

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Message 3837 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts a_d_ddude
(13/M/Cooper, TX) 1/7/01 5:39 pm
i havent dmed before, but here is how id handle it. first, find the numbers of each army, and calculate them into rollable numbers. roll a die (or dice) for each army, and the number on the dice is approxomately how many they lost in one battle, or one hour, or one day, or whatever, and continue until one side has less than maybe a hundred soldiers in it, and that side loses. or just keep rolling dice and subtracting the number on the dice from the armys numbers, any reasonable kind of die. make sense, or did i just post nonsense? ooh, that would make a good song.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3833 by crmsnshdo7

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Message 3838 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/8/01 12:11 pm
I have never used the Battlesystem rules (althought I have them) but I have run the Battlesystem Skirmishes rules, used for smaller battles. I personally think they are great. They are for use with miniatures, but you can make counters if you like. Yes both books are out of print, but you can get them on eBay. Combat and Tactics has a scaled down and revised version, I believe.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3833 by crmsnshdo7

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Message 3839 of 6732 Reply

Lg military battles ~It's Your Game Now tormentcha
(40/F/Alexandria, VA) 1/8/01 5:45 pm
Over the last year, we have watched with great anticipation as a new era of gaming has begun to take shape.

Today, we stand on the edge of a new frontier. With the establishment of the Open Gaming Foundation and the authority granted to publish materials under the Open Gaming License and D20 System License sponsored by Wizards of the Coast, the focus has returned to the player community with a promise of renewed life for one of the best known RPG’s on the market, Dungeons and Dragons. Under these programs, anyone with the gift of creativity can freely design new materials and submit them to the Open Gaming movement for use by anyone with any compliant gaming system. This movement opens the field of gaming contributions to individuals and organizations alike… for profit, or for free, anyone can add their materials as Open Gaming Content while still protecting the portions of their works that remain independent of the Open Gaming concept.

Now, the many wonderful ideas produced by the gaming community can be shared with others across the globe and used in any setting. There is only one problem left that still needs to be resolved. With so many materials being produced, and the sheer number of websites used for distribution, it is extremely difficult to centralize the works of community members and provide a compilation of material that can be easily used. That too has changed. On the first day of 2001, a new organization was founded to resolve these issues: the D&D Community Council. The Community Council is a world-wide organization of gamers devoted to bringing community contributions together into freely distributed gaming accessories designed to support the Dungeons and Dragons game under the D20 System and Open Gaming License. To date, the Community Council is currently involved in over twenty separate compilation efforts, including: The Netbook of Creatures, The Netbook of Classes, The Netbook of Feats, and on and on. Each publication is built from the submissions of Dungeons and Dragons fans from around the world and receives unlimited free distribution.

There is a Netbook of War already being developed... COME and add your ideas and your expertise in the newest wave to hit the RPG Community. Join us at http://www.dndcommunitycouncil.org

Any questions? Ask Torment on this list or at tormentcha@hotmail.com

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3838 by Umbratikus

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Message 3840 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts crmsnshdo7
1/8/01 10:05 pm
Hehe thanks for all the help guys. I think i have a good idea of how im gonna do things now. Ill let ya'll know how it turns out. Sneakabout, send me that stuff if ya have a chance. Thanks all!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3838 by Umbratikus

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Message 3841 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 1/9/01 11:47 am
I've done that before, but only for the status of other armies in the battle. I tend to focus on the PC's current mission/battle and just quickly let them know how others are fairing.

The last large scale battle I ran, I had the 5 PCs each lead an battallion against invading armies. The battle took about 8 hours of gameplay for 3 days, but the fight was definitely worth it.

The worst/best part was that the PCs were the invaders, so they had to break the defenses

-K6
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3837 by a_d_ddude

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Message 3842 of 6732 Reply

Need Forbidden City, fast! SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 1/10/01 10:58 am
Anyone know of a place to get a nice large-to-medium ruined city map? I've got to throw together some sandstone ruins in a desert oasis by Monday.

Something with a sort of central complex for the Big Bad Guys and older outlying buildings for random encounter stuff would be ideal.

Thanks!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3841 by knightmare6

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Message 3843 of 6732 Reply

Re: Need Forbidden City, fast! dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/10/01 11:06 am
city sites , countyy sites and castle sites
books all have pices you can trough together real quick to get what you want :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3842 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3844 of 6732 Reply

Re: Problem? someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 1:02 pm
Hey Talon, don't take offense at this, but I have been DMing since long before you were even born. There is absolutely no way that you are an experienced DM. You may be good, and talented at it, but experience comes with age and (gulp) experience. It doesn't matter how many conventions, etc you have been to, it ultimately comes down to the number of hours spent developing and researching campaigns, and the hours, days, months, and years actually running campaigns. If you are still playing in ten years, then you will know what I mean.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 69 by Talon_Kaarde

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Message 3845 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 1:04 pm
Keiron,

Don't forget that infravision doesn't allow the reading of documents in the dark, nor can individuals see into things like pools of water, or out windows. I prefer to limit infravision to steer clear of the "NO HUMANS" disease that seems to strike so many players.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 63 by keiron_macbane

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Message 3846 of 6732 Reply

Re: Problem? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/10/01 1:04 pm
Responding to message #69??? That was, like, 3800 posts ago! Ah well, have soapbox, will travel, I suppose ...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3844 by someguy80918

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Message 3847 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/10/01 1:06 pm
#63???

Uh-oh, are we in store for 3800 more responses from you over the next day or two? I mean, chances are, the people who posted message #60-something aren't even reading this board anymore!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3845 by someguy80918

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Message 3848 of 6732 Reply

Re: Problem? someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 1:07 pm
Yeah, I know, I just realized I was looking at messages from 1998. Whoops.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3846 by madteuton

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Message 3849 of 6732 Reply

Re: Problem? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/10/01 1:08 pm
You must be from a high-altitude region.

;-p

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3848 by someguy80918

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Message 3850 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 1:16 pm
Druel,

Difficult players are always a problem. I might suggest death as a way to either get them to drop out, or to change their actions. Obviously, no one plays D&D so that their players can die-however, sometimes it is necessary. Next time these two problem players do something stupid in a campaign, let the dice fall as they do. Chances are one or both will end up dead. After having to create new characters a few times, they may (possibly) get the hint that they need to be more careful.

Also, as another alternative, try greatly limiting the magical items in your campaign. My favorites are potions, scrolls, and charged items which allow me to control just how powerful a character gets.

In addition to magical items, also try limiting the experience points a character gets to 50% or even 10% (as I do) of the books value, and give none for the gaining of treasure or magic items.

Additionally, roleplaying experience for the times that they do actually roleplay is also a helpful carrot on a stick.

Need anymore ideas, just let me know.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3603 by dreul16

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Message 3851 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/10/01 1:29 pm
I concure with someguy

I've been dming for awhile now and have found that sometimes the disrupting players do that when they are bored you might like to find out what style of play they like and try to combine it into your game..
also as a DM i recomend running advetures published in Dungeon Mag and models from the stores at the bigining to help take some of the pressure of of you so as to get the feel fro the group you have with you ....

one of the things i've started doing recently was to have my players write up a charter history when they roll up the pc this way they are more likely to more carful so as too not have them die and have to goe trough that process all over again ...
as for the exp i award them the mon total from the MM but not for treasure found or high ability scores instead i award bonus exp for excellent roleplaying solving puzzels etc.. and craft of magic items and scrolls ... this helps keep the party intrusted and paying attention..
cause lets face it wizarda and paladins / rangers in 2nd edtion need all the exp help they can get to level up :)

drop us aline for more 411 and ideas

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3850 by someguy80918

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Message 3852 of 6732 Reply

Re: Problem? dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/10/01 1:32 pm
lol
come talk to me when you've been rpging as long as i have now after all my profile does say it all!!
I've dm and pced in every edtion from red blue to 3rd played in every world you can possible think of and wrote adventures , models , and handbooks for tsr and wizards of the coast!!

sorry had to brag like you :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3844 by someguy80918

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Message 3853 of 6732 Reply

Re: Problem? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/10/01 1:47 pm
Of course you have, dear (pat-pat-pat).

I just cracked open The Forge of Fury, my first 3e module (no doubt written by dungeonmaster1st). Looks cool, and I intend to plug into my own home-brew campaign world.

Anyone else give it a read?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3852 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3854 of 6732 Reply

Re: Paladins and Thieves someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:11 pm
A paladin may not be a party to deception as that is not a lawful good trait. Nor is he bound to follow laws and/or customs which are upheld by evil or nuetral societies.

I prefer the title of rogue to thief, as the rogue is a more fitting description of their abilities. As such, there is no reason a rogue could not be Lawful Good, although theft should not be a part of his skills.

You make a good point on the Paladin's Diety agreeing with the Paladin's actions. That would, and should be, the final ruling on the matter. Any questionable actions, that aren't inherently eveil or on purpose, should of course be dealt with by quests of atonement.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3571 by Journeyman7

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Message 3855 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large Group of Players someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:16 pm
Large games are very good for one thing. People can die. As we all know, the death of characters is usually a big deal to a player, and also to the party as a whole. Often in a large game like the one you describe there are good players and bad players-ones who are totally into it, and ones who are totally into disrupting it. I have found that by allowing a few of them to die in the course of the adventure gives the characters the perception that it is possible that their characters will die, and so usually are more careful and pay more attention. If a game gets out of hand, don't be afraid to kill off a few of the PCs.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3780 by dustmephit

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Message 3856 of 6732 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:21 pm
This individual should be stripped of his paladin hood, forced to use only his rogue skills until he reaches as high a level as his previous spell casting levels, and furthermore, he is ridiculous and should be killed off ASAP. Don't know what edition you are playing, but Paladins cannot multiclass in 2nd or 1st edition, and as I am not yet intimately familiar with 3rd, it shouldn't happen there either. Paladins are sworn to uphold good and law, it is more than a class, it is a way of life.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3550 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3857 of 6732 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/10/01 3:24 pm
He must be playing the SUCKnd edition.

(I kill me!)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3856 by someguy80918

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Message 3858 of 6732 Reply

Re: writing descriptions someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:26 pm
This is an easy one. Never forget that PCs have at least 5 senses, and probably the player's sixth sense as well. Don't forget descriptions of sounds, smells, and such. One tactic I find helpful, and extremely useful, is to have wilderness/monster sounds echoing through the woods when I don't want a random encounter.

Weather is also another good way to break up an otherwise monotonous trip through the woods. Describe the trees as twisted, grarled. Give claw marks on trees to either mislead, entice, or just to give flavor. Birds on the wing and other small furry critters also come in handy. As does old battle sites strewn with the bleached bones of the long ago falled. Eerie wails, ground hugging mist, remains of a forest fire etc..

Hope this helps.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3540 by amra11_2000

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Message 3859 of 6732 Reply

Re: A Paldin by any other name... someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:31 pm
Blasphemous Infidel. :)

Paladins are champions of good and law, not of their alignment.

I agree with you regarding the racial thing though.

As far as the article goes, the CE paladin is strictly an Anti-Paladin, not a paladin. I see no reason why there couldn't be a "Paladin" type class for each alignment, but I ask the question, what does it mean to champion Chaotic Nuetrality?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3484 by Rune_Lord

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Message 3860 of 6732 Reply

Re: Trouble brewing someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:32 pm
I would kill me too if I had such a confusing person to play in D&D.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3857 by madteuton

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Message 3861 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:33 pm
Dude,

why don't you go find something more productive to do with your time than harass people just trying to give new DMS some insight into some very common issues.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3847 by madteuton

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Message 3862 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/10/01 3:35 pm
Oh, I'm just kidding around.

New to the board?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3861 by someguy80918

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Message 3863 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:44 pm
Glad to see you are just kidding around.

Yes I am new to the board, and also bored at work.

I have been a DM for 18 years, and I thought just maybe I would pass on some of my experiences to the newer DMs, not to mention even old veterans like myself can find new ideas or ways to deal with problems.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3862 by madteuton

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Message 3864 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/10/01 3:48 pm
Much appreciated! Welcome on.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3863 by someguy80918

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Message 3865 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 3:50 pm
Great, now if there are no further objections, I shall continue my way throw the 3800 messages, looking for ones that I can input on. Yes, they are old and moldy, but let me ask this-how many DMs realize that spellbooks can't be read with infravision?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3864 by madteuton

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Message 3866 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/10/01 3:54 pm
<>

[raises hand]

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3865 by someguy80918

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Message 3867 of 6732 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 4:23 pm
I think the solution to your problem is a simple one, at the same time that it may prove to be a pain in the @ss.

I am with you that rangers, along with druids, do not like the underground much, yet they aren't forbidden from going there. (after all, didn't Aragorn the Ranger go through Moria-maybe not I can't remember) If your ranger is balking at the dungeon setting, then he sounds as if he is in character. Try letting him sit and wait outside the dungeon while the rest of the party enters, gains experience and wealth, and returns with all manner of booty and stories.

If I misunderstand you and he doesn't balk at the dungeon setting, but you do not believe rangers should be going into dungeons, then perhaps some bad dreams to interrupt his already restless nights, some loss of skills due to discomfort at being so far from the outdoors, etc etc etc.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3395 by Calitrojan

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Message 3868 of 6732 Reply

Re: Elven Prison someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 4:28 pm
Rust monsters are a personal favorite of mine. Eliminate all those powerful magical items, excess armor etc.

Shriekers are another good one as well. Don't forget probably shades and ghosts left from the prior "guests" of the prison.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3330 by jojutsu82

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Message 3869 of 6732 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 4:31 pm
I think that would be a quarterling, probably with a move rate of about 3. I don't know of any rulings on this, Dragon Magazine may have had one at some point. Personally, I see no reason not to, although an elf that would breed with an orc is definitely not a common thing, although rape during conquests do often occur.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3289 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3870 of 6732 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 4:35 pm
Two words- Area effect

By the time the main characters get to 6th or 7th level they should be facing many more dangerous creatures, such as ones with Breath Weapons. Give the cowardly mage no where to hide or run to and then hit them with a breath weapon (area effect), the other characters' additional hit points should save them, but the lowly mage with all of 10 hit points will perish.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3260 by madpoet418

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Message 3871 of 6732 Reply

Re: A DM question someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 4:36 pm
Start with too easy, then work your way up.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3239 by gwit9000

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Message 3872 of 6732 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 4:42 pm
Either strip the priest of his powers, send him on a quest, or have his diety grant him spells that he doesn't ask for. In otherwords, let us say he prays for three cure light wound spells-give him three other 1st level spells instead to show his diety's displeasure.

Bards should sing and storytell, that is where their power comes from. A tough character to play. He should be using his songs to help the party. It will be difficult to get him to play according to his character since bards aren't all that well defined.

Thieves should be along to disarm traps and get into places that the others can't get into. He may be nearly useless in combat, but he is the one who must face that exploding chest full of gold.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3090 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3873 of 6732 Reply

Re: Destroy The Books! someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 4:44 pm
A light fingered thief in the dead of night should take care of those troublesome books.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3874 of 6732 Reply

Need map of the Tomb of Horrors someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/10/01 4:48 pm
Does anyone have a map of the tomb of horrors that they could email me? I have only the module left with no map. Quite useless. Thanks my email is someguy80918@yahoo.com


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Message 3875 of 6732 Reply

Re: Need map of the Tomb of Horrors jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 1/10/01 4:52 pm
If no one has emailed it to you by tomorrow, kindly drop me an email at Jojutsu82@yahoo.com to remind me and I will be happy to scan and send it.

Jojutsu the Kind

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3874 by someguy80918

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Message 3876 of 6732 Reply

Re: Need map of the Tomb of Horrors orgruff
(32/M/Australia, not UK) 1/10/01 7:53 pm
I'd like a map for the hidden shrine of Tamochan (sp?) I can swap if you like I'd have to scan TOH too but it can be done.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3875 by jojutsu82

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Message 3877 of 6732 Reply

Re: A Paldin by any other name... mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 1/10/01 11:54 pm
Hi you wrote:

<<
Blasphemous Infidel. :)

Paladins are champions of good and law, not of their alignment.

I agree with you regarding the racial thing though.

As far as the article goes, the CE paladin is strictly an Anti-Paladin, not a paladin. I see no reason why there couldn't be a "Paladin" type class for each alignment, but I ask the question, what does it mean to champion Chaotic Nuetrality?
>>

you mean you have never heard of Elric? the gods he followed were lords of chaos. he was ther reverse idea, a chaos champion trying to bring some law and order to the world.

D&D has never handled the idea of a paladin very well in my opinion. They refer to paladins in King arthur terms or crusader terms.

Why can we not make a paladin for each and every god? Are there not warriors who fight to upgld thebeliefs of every god? Even peace, beauty, harvest, and death?

Do not be affraid to create a little, A paladin's aloignment becomes the god's or his worshiper's alignment, his powers are related to the paladin's sphere of influence. A paladin of a thief god you say? Ever hear of Radin? God of thunder, thiefs, and fletchers? What wold his palidind do, worship, protect, uphold. What special powers would they have.

Stop thinging batman from the 1960 TV show, and start thingking of batman the dark knight from recient movies and several comics.

get the idea?

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3859 by someguy80918

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Message 3878 of 6732 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 1/11/01 7:57 am
I think the best way to get PC's roleplaying is to good RolwPlaying yourself (not that I'm saying you don't)

As someone said before strip them of all they have, a good adventure that did this was an old module in the last of the Slavers series, dump them in a dungeon stripped of all they have, it makes them think that bit harder...

Have more adventures in busy cities, where they have to rely on taling more and investifating...

DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
http://www.geocities.com/dungeonkeeperuk

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3872 by someguy80918

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Message 3879 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 1/11/01 8:02 am
Some tiem ago TSR brought out a large scale batlle rules box set (Battle System I think) from what remember it didn't go down to well, which may be an indicator of trying not bring wargameing into roleplaying, but who's t say you shouldn't.

I would personally run small combats where the character are involved and describe what is happening elsewhere on the battlefield.

DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
http://www.geocities.com/dungeonkeeperuk

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3833 by crmsnshdo7

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Message 3880 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 8:42 am
>>Oh, I'm just kidding around.

New to the board? <<

Teuton, you are cracking me up.

Umbratikus, the amused

p.s. I still like the "SUCKnd" edition, so watch your step lest I smite thee.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3862 by madteuton

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Message 3881 of 6732 Reply

Re: A Paldin by any other name... Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 9:00 am
Matt, a few counterpoints:

You said: "D&D has never handled the idea of a paladin very well in my opinion. They refer to paladins in King arthur terms or crusader terms. "

Actually, by definition, a paladin can be described no other way. A rose is a rose is a rose. I think the AD&D paladin is excellently handled, but it takes a skilled and dedicated role player to truly play it properly.

You said "Why can we not make a paladin for each and every god? Are there not warriors who fight to upgld thebeliefs of every god? Even peace, beauty, harvest, and death?"

We can. They are called specialty priests. Specialty priests don't just sit around in cassocks preaching sermons and taking up the offering, they don armor and take up weapons and go out and fight for their beliefs.

If you wanted to make a warrior class that follows the priestly ways, then make specialty holy warriors, but they would not be paladins because the step outside the definition. To me they would just be specialty priests with more hitpoints, better to hit ratio, and without spells. Personally I would rather have the spells.

Paladins are more than warriors of their gods. Paladins live up to a stringent set of ideals, not just upholding the wishes of their god, but of their king and country as well. They are to be the ultimate good, and must always strive for that. Their code of chivalry must go unbroken. They are the definitive "knight in shining armor."

This is all, of course, IMHO

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3877 by mattbcieri

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Message 3882 of 6732 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 9:03 am
I tend to agree with DK here (typos notwithstanding). If you, the DM, role play your NPCs to the hilt, most of the players will follow suit (or at least try).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3878 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3883 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/11/01 9:11 am
Hey MT Do you feel like Dejavu?

Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3851 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3884 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 9:14 am
Actually, D&D evolved from tabletop wargaming, did it not? I don't know why battlesystem didn't do well. Perhaps because large scale battles with miniatures can be an expensive proposition.

Actually, when they revamped BattleSystem into two books (BattleSystem, and BattleSystem Skirmishes) I thought it was a very good product (although I only played the latter). It can be moved seamlessly into the role playing aspect of the campaign and is a good way to resolve large scale battles. The books themselves are a treasure because of all of the beautiful photography of painted miniatures set up in meticulously constructed terrain and beautiful dioramas.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3879 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3885 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM, bad players madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/11/01 9:17 am
I usually do, Nyvek.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3883 by Draco77

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Message 3886 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/11/01 9:29 am
Hey MT I hope we don't get another okraklown!


Nyvek - Paladin of The Most Holy Order of the Rubber Chicken

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3865 by someguy80918

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Message 3887 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/11/01 9:33 am
We should invite him here!

He's always good for providing material.

In fact, I think I will ...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3886 by Draco77

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Message 3888 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/11/01 10:20 am
You have a mean evil streak. Bring His greatnes here to look down upon these peons. I think we are beneath him anyway.


Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3887 by madteuton

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Message 3889 of 6732 Reply

Re: infra vision madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/11/01 10:24 am
Yes, but his ego is such that he wouldn't be able to resist accepting the invitation. Then, he can read through all the posts here and compulsively try to "fix" all our "problems".

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3888 by Draco77

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Message 3890 of 6732 Reply

Dragons Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/11/01 10:30 am
We had a discussion on another club about Dragons.

I would like to know what everyone thinks and how they play them.

I always play them to be the worst thing a PC could come across. Dragons are supposed to very intelligent and powerful. In my campaign world only 3-4 dragons have been slain ever. This world has been around since 1990. Those 4 were wyrmlings too. I feel as powerful as a Dragon is they would have henchman and/or allies to help defend it. Also getting to it would be a adventure in itself.

There is a main dragon in my campaign right know a old white dragon named Ga'arth. The PC made her mad and now she does what she can to thwart them.
The last she did was assassinate a person who could unlock a scroll for them. Now they think there is none left to do it.

Let me know what everyone else thinks!


Draco


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Message 3891 of 6732 Reply

Magic weapons only Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 11:10 am
Here is a question for the gallery: How do you all deal with the creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons? Do the weapons just bounce off of them like Superman? Ghosts and non-corporeals are easy, but what about the solid sort? What if you douse him in oil and alight him with non-magical fire? Could a PC pick up a rock and throw it at him for some damage? If not, what happwns when that creature is hit by a naturally falling rock while walking up a mountain trail? Can you sick your pet Dire Wolf on them?

I know, I know, some of this is in the books. How does 3e handle this? I'm interested to hear some different ways this is handled out there.

Umbratikus, the too-lazy-to-look-this-up


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Message 3892 of 6732 Reply

Re: A Paldin by any other name... someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/11/01 11:13 am
Took the words right outta my mouth. The King Aurthurian ideal that the Paladin is presented in, is indeed the only way a Paladin is supposed to be. There is a picture of one in the first players handbook I believe.

As Umbratikus said, they uphold more than just their Diety's ideals. I see no reason why a special warrior class could not be developed for any alignment or God, but they would not be Paladins. In essence the priest/cleric or whatever is such a warrior. Priests these days don't really use a lot of maces and such in their sermons, so these priests must be different from our modern day priests-they are warrior priests. A specialist priest is even more so that special warrior type.

But, as we all have our own worlds in this game, any and all of us are free to do as we wish with the troublesome Paladin class. I, for one, will only ever allow a LG human Paladin, or a CE human Anti-Paladin in my games. And woe to the Paladin who does not uphold the ideas of goodness and law.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3881 by Umbratikus

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Message 3893 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/11/01 11:29 am
Does this Dragon have a henchman named Bro'oks? JK.

An old white dragon should be a great challenge indeed. And also should prove rather rare as well.

I do think that the dragon should be played with cunning and great intelligence-especially on old/ancient/venerable one. Dragons certainly should have a distinct personality, and should be played as an NPC, again, especially the older ones. They probably have a great deal of confidence, and possibly are fond of playing with their food before eating it.

From what you say in your posting, this dragon is very powerful, and does seem to be toying with the PCs. How long has she lived? If the PC made her mad, then why did she not blast him? Since she didn't, I will assume that she enjoys a good game of cat and mouse. It sounds like you are playing the dragon fine, just remember that she didn't get old by being unwary or foolish. Staying a step ahead of the PCs will help her survive.

As far as henchman go, that one I am not sure of. maybe, maybe not-quite possibly-who knows. How's that for a non-committal answer?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3890 by Draco77

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Message 3894 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/11/01 11:34 am
It's a great opportunity for me to get into some narrative pyrotechnics. "Your blade is met with a sickly, greenish flash and the golem seems unconcerned with your attack. Your strike leaves no apparent mark on the creature."

"The boulder falls dead onto the beast and explodes into a thick gray ash with a roar ... all falls silent.

The air starts to clear and you can make out a vague shape ... moving. The beast steps from the cloud of settling boulder debris and mechanically strides toward you out of the dust. It appears completely unfazed by the boulder ..."

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3891 by Umbratikus

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Message 3895 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/11/01 11:37 am
In my campaigns, magical weapons are extremely rare. Thus I have run across this issue many times. Silver, and cold wrought iron weapons take care of many of these nasties, as do spells. As far as what the effect is on the nonmagical weapons-I prefer to use the idea that the weapon cannot penetrate the body of the creature. A hard enough blow can knock it back or whatever, but it will not be injured by the weapon. A rock falling on a mountain trail-well I just don't know about that one. It would seem that while these creatures are immune to non-magical weapons, but probably not immune to everything that is non-magical. Imagine a fall from a great height-would the creature survive? Doubtful. That probably would hold true of the falling rock as well. Should a party be clever enough to collapse a dungeon ceiling on a creature of this type, I think I would go with it.

Were a rock thrown by a PC, then it would (by def) be a weapon, and so-unless it were a magical rock-it would not affect the creature.

The way I would go about these sorts of questions would be to separate the weapons from the non-weapons, and go from there. Hope this helps.

Dunno bout 3ED

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3891 by Umbratikus

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Message 3896 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/11/01 11:38 am
Or you could also use the Mad Tueton's ideas, which are just as valid. I definitely like the special effects he mentioned.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3894 by madteuton

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Message 3897 of 6732 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/11/01 11:49 am
Role playing the NPCs is a great way to try to get the non-role-playing players to role-play. However, from what I have seen what tends to happen is that the players who do role-play jump on this and the ones who don't role-play well tend to just keep doing what they have been doing.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3878 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3898 of 6732 Reply

Re: Need map of the Tomb of Horrors someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/11/01 11:51 am
I would be happy to swap the map of The Hidden Shrine of Tamochan (if I had it). I do have maps for the Temple of Elemental Evil, The Lost Island of Castanimir, and some others as well. I would be happy to scan and email them to any who need them.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3876 by orgruff

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Message 3899 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/11/01 11:54 am
<>

I share your perspective here. I imagine evil dragons would be extrememly cunning and have very definite ideas about other dragon's territorial boundaries and power vaccuuMessage 3901 of 6732 Reply

Dragons karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/11/01 1:27 pm
I once lured a bunch of adventurers into a Dragon hunt by using snail mail and posting a Parchment type invitation to a bunch of experienced players I had gamed with over a 5 year period

“Come one Come All – The adventurer’s Guild in Ordulin has declared that there shall be a contest to determine who is sutable to attempt a task of the utmost difficulty.

The risks shall be great but the reqrds and accolades major. For it is known that a Red dragon of some size has taken up residence in the hills above Thotford. Farms are being plundered , woods are being destroyed and trade routes are being pillaged.

The army has tried with no success to bring this beast to bay.

We, the Grand council of the guild, are looking for a group of individuals who are willing to take on this task.

If you are interested in applying meet at the Guild halls on the evening of the 10th. The application procedure will take one ride. Those too frail or inexperienced need not apply . . . .”



Something like this was the notice I sent to 10 of the most experienced players I knew, asking them to dust off their Biggest baddest characters – Bring on your Mighty swords of Doom, Bring on your most powerful magics – those characters who have been retired because they are too tough . . . .bring ’em on. BUT, make sure you bring a backup character as well.

This intrigued all of the players and they bought fearsome characters – lvls 14-18 . . . . . A weeks trials and tribulations and we had a party organised.

It was with some dismay they found it was NOT a dragon which they had all geared up for but an enclave of powerful Githyanki (2 military companies), setting up a forward base for an invasion . . . .damn sneaky foreigners !!!!

The Gith figured that news of a Dragon would keep most people away while they set up. . . .

Anyway - this Made for a good couple of sessions away from the normal campaign - people got to dust off the old "Monty Haul" charcters - and I got to try and kick some PC butt in a fight to the finish.
(as opposed to the completely neutral and even handed normal session)


ms brought about when other dragons are slain. I would suspect there's a strict pecking order.

And, I wouldn't doubt that if an older dragon detected a wyrmling just starting to venture out near her territory, she would probably try to wile some wandering band of adventurers into killing it for her if she didn't want to kill it herself (and she may not want to for political reasons -- whose baby is it and such ...).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3890 by Draco77

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Message 3900 of 6732 Reply

Re: Large military conflicts karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/11/01 12:50 pm
I agree - I played a couple of full scale battles to resolve questions in my campaigns - Battlesystem actually worked very well. (I DID have a truck full of Miniatures at the time).

It gave a great DnD slant to the battle which made it feel better than when I tried using Warhammer (or any other )large scale battle rules.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3884 by Umbratikus

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Message 3901 of 6732 Reply

Dragons karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/11/01 1:27 pm
I once lured a bunch of adventurers into a Dragon hunt by using snail mail and posting a Parchment type invitation to a bunch of experienced players I had gamed with over a 5 year period

“Come one Come All – The adventurer’s Guild in Ordulin has declared that there shall be a contest to determine who is sutable to attempt a task of the utmost difficulty.

The risks shall be great but the reqrds and accolades major. For it is known that a Red dragon of some size has taken up residence in the hills above Thotford. Farms are being plundered , woods are being destroyed and trade routes are being pillaged.

The army has tried with no success to bring this beast to bay.

We, the Grand council of the guild, are looking for a group of individuals who are willing to take on this task.

If you are interested in applying meet at the Guild halls on the evening of the 10th. The application procedure will take one ride. Those too frail or inexperienced need not apply . . . .”



Something like this was the notice I sent to 10 of the most experienced players I knew, asking them to dust off their Biggest baddest characters – Bring on your Mighty swords of Doom, Bring on your most powerful magics – those characters who have been retired because they are too tough . . . .bring ’em on. BUT, make sure you bring a backup character as well.

This intrigued all of the players and they bought fearsome characters – lvls 14-18 . . . . . A weeks trials and tribulations and we had a party organised.

It was with some dismay they found it was NOT a dragon which they had all geared up for but an enclave of powerful Githyanki (2 military companies), setting up a forward base for an invasion . . . .damn sneaky foreigners !!!!

The Gith figured that news of a Dragon would keep most people away while they set up. . . .

Anyway - this Made for a good couple of sessions away from the normal campaign - people got to dust off the old "Monty Haul" charcters - and I got to try and kick some PC butt in a fight to the finish.
(as opposed to the completely neutral and even handed normal session)


===
Message 3901 of 6732 Reply

Dragons karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/11/01 1:27 pm
I once lured a bunch of adventurers into a Dragon hunt by using snail mail and posting a Parchment type invitation to a bunch of experienced players I had gamed with over a 5 year period

“Come one Come All – The adventurer’s Guild in Ordulin has declared that there shall be a contest to determine who is sutable to attempt a task of the utmost difficulty.

The risks shall be great but the reqrds and accolades major. For it is known that a Red dragon of some size has taken up residence in the hills above Thotford. Farms are being plundered , woods are being destroyed and trade routes are being pillaged.

The army has tried with no success to bring this beast to bay.

We, the Grand council of the guild, are looking for a group of individuals who are willing to take on this task.

If you are interested in applying meet at the Guild halls on the evening of the 10th. The application procedure will take one ride. Those too frail or inexperienced need not apply . . . .”



Something like this was the notice I sent to 10 of the most experienced players I knew, asking them to dust off their Biggest baddest characters – Bring on your Mighty swords of Doom, Bring on your most powerful magics – those characters who have been retired because they are too tough . . . .bring ’em on. BUT, make sure you bring a backup character as well.

This intrigued all of the players and they bought fearsome characters – lvls 14-18 . . . . . A weeks trials and tribulations and we had a party organised.

It was with some dismay they found it was NOT a dragon which they had all geared up for but an enclave of powerful Githyanki (2 military companies), setting up a forward base for an invasion . . . .damn sneaky foreigners !!!!

The Gith figured that news of a Dragon would keep most people away while they set up. . . .

Anyway - this Made for a good couple of sessions away from the normal campaign - people got to dust off the old "Monty Haul" charcters - and I got to try and kick some PC butt in a fight to the finish.
(as opposed to the completely neutral and even handed normal session)


===
Message 3903 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 1:50 pm
Well, I'm fine when it comes to creatures that obviously had defense from weapons, like some golems, or the non-corporeal. It is the flesh and blood creatures like lycanthropes. It is hard to explain a sharpened blade bouncing off the flesh of the beast. I have alternatively used the weapon bouncing off the flesh, to the sword causing apparent damage but not actually racking up any real damage.

My question about the rock was basically what would be the difference between a PC throwing a rock and a rock falling on the creature by chance?

Also what about non-magical fire? What about animals, like attack dogs?

Do the 3e rules address this at all?

Anyone? Anyone?

Umbratikus, the Inquisitive

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3896 by someguy80918

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Message 3904 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/11/01 2:13 pm
Umbratikus,

immunity to non-magical weapons does not confer immunity to fire, whether it be magical or otherwise.

Perhaps you could have the non-magical weapons "wound" the creature, and have the wounds close up and heal immediately after.

If a creature is immune to non-magical weapons it would stand to reason that it may be immune to attacks like bites and clawings.
However, this would mean that these creatures would be immune to all physical attacks from non-magical creatures. That would mean that an ancient red dragon (which is not magical) would not be able to do anything (by physical attack) to a creature so protected.

Alternatively, perhaps these creatures can only be physically harmed by creatures who also have similar non-magical weapon resistances. Thus a +1 immune creature would not be able to claw a +2 immune creature, but the +2 immune creature would be able to harm the +1 immune creature.

Dunno if any of this helps, hope it does.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3903 by Umbratikus

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Message 3905 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/11/01 3:00 pm
i always ruled magical creatures in my games were those never found on earth yet another words
if a druid can't shift to its form then it's a magical creature and can strike as so ... i rule as +5 weapon .......
and nonmagical creatures with 4 or better hd then the protected pc/npc can strike 4 1/2 dmg but normal weapons and pc's with hand to hand and no chi atts can strike but no dmg is done

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3904 by someguy80918

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Message 3906 of 6732 Reply

Maps vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 1/11/01 3:01 pm
I am looking for PRINTABLE maps to use/get ideas from. My only access to "the net" is at work and then it is slim, so i need maps in a printable format that requires no downloading. I have already printed the ones in the photo gallery here.

Any suggestions?

vahjra


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Message 3907 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/11/01 3:02 pm
3rd edtion address it very well with damge reduction for creatures such as warebeasts etc... pick up mm phb and dmb and read them to find out I did

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3903 by Umbratikus

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Message 3908 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/11/01 3:04 pm
I like the narative i wish my group would get into it a LITTLE more when i try they seem to go all earthal on me :) so i try to keep iot simple and they seem to like it more :(

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3894 by madteuton

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Message 3909 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/11/01 3:12 pm
i like to run my dragons alittle bit different then the most I like to role them up as if for the council of wyrm setting due to that fact that seems to make dragons as truly powerful as they are ment to be with some being as stupid as a brick while others inteligence rivals the gods ... it all depends on how you play them..
I once had and Great Wyrm red dragon that the pc's accidently free form a magical sword and hounding them for along time before they tracked him down to his lair faught trough all his minons and so forth .. and slayed him rather easly only to find out that he wanted them to slay him in order for him to complete his circle and becoming a Dracolich now that took care of the snotty pcs while thge smart ones ran for there life'sand are still running :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3890 by Draco77

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Message 3910 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/11/01 3:20 pm
I look at a monsters differently in each case.
Like you said ghost and shadows or easy. Others well some if they are with non-magical the just glance off, then some I have shown damage but it heals instantly. Magical creatures I always assumed could hit magical creatures.
And the rock would do damag if it was a +1 or better.


Nyvek MHORC

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3891 by Umbratikus

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Message 3911 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/11/01 3:27 pm
way to go i l;ike that !!
Idid something simular with reguards to locating Thor's hammer and returning it to him for a reward ...

I sent out invits like you mine went to my first DD group i ever played with back in red and blue book it said

YO
the group known as Shadow company has been recruited to go forth and retrive thors hammer from thor himself ouf goddess tiamat has decreed it shall be hers once again come on come all

signed
Dan Cooperfild aka The Maker
mage supreme

they all showed up with the biggest badist pc ever around levels 20 and up deck out too boot ... just don't cast detect magic on this group for fear of going blind......
role call was
Cooperfield mage me 21st
Shadow Stalker Assaian former DM 22nd
Shadow Theif former DM / player 25th
Hogan the blade former player 20th grand master bastard sword 2 weapon amidextry grand master Long Comp bow
and the priestess of Timat herself and my best friend
Leana the serpent 30th level priestess of loth
of coarse these pc's were updated at each edtion up to 2nd

they showed up eager and ready to bear the advutre took us troughout all the planes , realms and worlds you could imagine on there search ... it lasted us 2 years playing time before they caught up with thor only to have him escape ... they chased after him only to be tricked into entering RAVENLOTH now a party of evil and ne pcs need i say more what happened once they entered here :) i t was a blast and gave the biggest of the bad a chance to once again come forth and do harm :)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3901 by karrakain

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Message 3912 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 3:34 pm
<>

I've done this, too, but it gives the wrong impression to the PCs. To them it says "Regeneration."

I've been a DM since 1979, and have used every idea mentioned here so far, but am not satisfied with any of them.

I was just curious how others handled it.

My current solution is the sword bouncing or clancing off the flesh with no apparent injury.

Also, with animals, I remember reading somewhere that it depended on the hit dice level of the animal, e.g. a 4 HD animal could hit a creature that can only be hit by +1 weapons, a 6 HD for +2, etc. (I'm not sure of those numbers, just an example).

Umbratikus, the Unsatisfied

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3904 by someguy80918

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Message 3913 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 3:40 pm
<<3rd edtion address it very well ... pick up mm phb and dmb and read them to find out I did>>

Only I'm not running 3e (and don't plan to in the near future). I was just asking for informational purposes. Sheesh.

Umbratikus, the Miffed

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3907 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3914 of 6732 Reply

Re: Maps Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/11/01 3:41 pm
Have you tried the map-a-week feature on the WotC website ?

http://www.wizards.com

Umbratikus, the Helpful

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3906 by vahjra

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Message 3915 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only someguy80918
(31/M/Colorado) 1/11/01 4:42 pm
<>

<>

That is what I like about it the most. Let the PCs think regeneration, they already know too much anyway. But this too, would become predicatable, so I guess using a variety of ways might work best.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3912 by Umbratikus

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Message 3916 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Evertree
1/11/01 5:05 pm
"The boulder falls dead onto the beast and explodes into a thick gray ash..."

I'd have to disagree about the boulder. Certain creatures with enough HD and attacks with enough Damage Dice count as magical attacks. There was a scale for the HD in 2E, but I would manage the physical attacks on a case by case basis. You can definitely bend an iron golem with a massive boulder, maybe even tear it to bits.

Think about the consequences if you couldn't.

I had an aasimar who had nonmagical weapon immunity. It was funny for her to watch the militia's surprise when their weapons had no effect, but she was surprised when she thought to walk in and out of a cave bear's ...well, cave unscaved.


E.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3894 by madteuton

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Message 3917 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 1/11/01 6:49 pm
I prefer to think of my Dragons as solitary hunters - without henchmen or that sort of thing.. Of course, there's always the possibility of a Dragon charming someone, perhaps someone influential, leading to a 'cult' of the Dragon..

I had alot of fun with a White Dragon once - the party was treking through a frozen land. They knew they were being watched by a dragon, but didn't know how intently.. The third day of their trek, the dragon attacked, basically as they were preparing to leave it's territory.

It had charm.. and came in the night - when the Human was on watch.. Charmed him. Instructed him to kill his sleeping comrades.. Which he began to do, only getting two before some 'blessing' occured (DM grinned), and the rest woke up. Course, the dragon was close by and once they woke up they were bathed in icy breath weapon.. Love to start dragon fights that way...lol.. Naturally, the breath weapon broke the charm..

They didn't kill it, but they did manage to wound it heavily, and it escaped. They searched for, and found, it's lair, only to find it semi-healed. And had to fight it again. The paladin lost a hand permanently, but they did kill the beast, and it made for great story telling later..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3890 by Draco77

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Message 3918 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Myrkul999
(22/M/Ft. Lauderdale, FL) 1/11/01 11:08 pm
3E actually does describe this pretty well, even if you don't plan on running it, it does have a very good way of showing how it would work. ie: A Fighter swings his (non-magical) Bastard sword at a Balor and it slices the beast's flesh easily, but as the blade passes, the skin knits itself instantaneously. He swings that same sword at the Metal side of a Iron Golem, and the sword just goes *ping* (or *snap*, depending on the strength of the weapon). A boulder, now that would have to depend on the relative size of the Creature being hit. A boulder, hitting a pixie, no matter the amount of non-magical wpn immunities, is gonna end up with smushed pixie. The same rock may be nothing more than a regular stone is to us to an Ancient Red Dragon. Also, a creature with an immunity to the same or better class of weapon should be able to strike normally.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3916 by Evertree

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Message 3919 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 1/12/01 2:10 am
I make it up on the spot - if the creature is fast then they just brush away your weapons, if not then the weapons usually bounce off tough hide. It all depends on the specific creature and no hard and fast rule can really be made.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3915 by someguy80918

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Message 3920 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 1/12/01 3:53 am
okay, for Umbrakitus the ever-patient here's a game mechanics answer.. in 3e these matters are dealt with by using damage reduction which reads like 20/+1. what these mean is that the creature ignore the first 20 points of damage from each attack, unless the attack is from a +1 or better weapon. 15/silver means the creature ignores the first 15 from any attack not using a silver or better weapon. thus, it's still possible to hurt them, but a lot harder.

for narrative purposes, you could describe a hit as a near miss, a dodge, even bouncing off (best for blut weapons) or even as parried by the monster, but it might be more satisfying to say that the sword hits, but inflicts a mere scratch, much less than would normally be expected for such a blow, which appears to be trifling, and that the monster doesn't seem to be disturbed about in the least. you could also describe this minor cut as closing up later in the fight for drama. this is a lot more plausible than a gaping wound closing suddenly, and doesn't scream "regeneration!", at least not nearly so loudly.

as for falling rocks, or falling from a height, a big enough rock falling on the creature would probably squash it (and 3e has a rule for massive damage.. if a creature is dealt 50 or more points from a single source(in this case, damage resistance probably still applies), it must make a fortitude save or die) or at least render it immobile under a ton of rock, which still gets it out of your way unless it's really strong and nasty. likewise, a long enough fall would redistribute the creature's mass all over the ground below.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3919 by sneakabout2

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Message 3921 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 1/12/01 4:35 am
Just as I was digging up the paragraph in the 3e DMG .. well said.

As for the "boulder crashing upon a resistant creature" .. IMHO, damage reduction (as it is called in 3e) would apply (think superman being temporarily caught under a bus, etc. in the big fight scene in Sup II .. the only really cool one) .. an optional variant to the "50 HP = Fort save or death" rule modifies this to +/- 10 for each size catagory above/below Medium ..

For each 200 lb, and each 10' fallen, a rock does 1d6 point of damage (up to 20d6, there is a table in the DMG that covers the distance increments for smaller objects) .. let's say it's a "ton of bricks" or 2,000 lb, starting damage = 10d6, dropped from over 110' (total = 20d6) .. average damage = 70 .. so even medium-sized creatures with typical (15/+1 for typical vampires, 15/silver for were-types) damage reduction have a fair chance of not having to make a Fort save due to "massive damage" after being hit by a "ton of bricks", but they would only "shrug off" the first 15 points of that damage .. if the rest of that damage kills them, then (in the case of the were-creatures, anyways) they become a messy splat beneath said "ton of bricks" anyway.

All in all, the "damage reduction" system makes more sense to me than the "immune to normal weapons" system of previous editions.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3920 by Shabooah

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Message 3922 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/12/01 8:26 am
Thanks for all the input, guys. It has helped. I think the damage reduction in 3E is good, too, and makes more sense than weapon immunity.

Here is an interesting concept. For flesh and blood types that are immune, perhaps the weapon hit could actually cause pain, but do no real damage in hp, sort of like in the Highlander movies. "Yeah, that dagger in the belly sure hurt but look, I'm okay!"

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3921 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 3923 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/12/01 9:33 am
as aways i like sneakabout's anwser

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3919 by sneakabout2

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Message 3924 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 1/12/01 12:17 pm
I usually use a rule, where if they creature is a flesh-and-blood creature (used loosely by the way!), they take the damage temporarily, but are unharmed by it. If they are brought down to zero, then they are just knocked unconscious. They heal the temporary damage at a rate of 2-3 points a round. But it's fun to let PCs think they've killed the enemy.

If the creature is incorporeal, then I just let the weapons pass through their body, where as if they creature is mineral-like (Golems for example), then I have them bounce off.

-K6
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3891 by Umbratikus

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Message 3925 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/12/01 12:45 pm
<>

How would you differentiate this from regeneration?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3924 by knightmare6

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Message 3926 of 6732 Reply

Re: Magic weapons only madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/12/01 12:50 pm
<>

Hey, yeah! (snicker-snicker)

brat, I'm glad this all came up as I was fairly unfamiliar with the new 3e rules for these things and your discussion prompted me to do a bit of research on damage reduction last night. Thanks.

madteuton (3e wyrmling)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3925 by Umbratikus

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Message 3927 of 6732 Reply

Psionics in 3rd Edition ShotGlass12
(27/M/Chicago, IL) 1/12/01 2:47 pm
Hello -

I've been a member of this club for some time, reading the messages and soaking in the knowledge. I have now decided to end my lurker status and ask a question.

The question is about Psionics in 3rd Edition. I am aware that a Psionics Handbook is due out some time in the next few months, but until then, I am in a quandry. How are the fellow DMs that are running 3rd Edition handling Psionics? The snippet in the DMG barely gives enough info to run it, and trying to use the info in the MM doesn't help much more.

Since my players decided that they wanted to switch to 3rd edition, I have been converting my entire campaign. However, since I was not too familar with the Psionics rules in 2nd edition, I can't simply convert those.

I have decided that the "mysterious enforcers" so prevalent in my world will be Psionic. So, now I need a little help. Anyone who has any advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

--Ulrich


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Message 3928 of 6732 Reply

Re: Maps vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 1/12/01 6:05 pm
Actually no, I haven't. thanks a lot. i will give it a try.

vah-

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3914 by Umbratikus

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Message 3929 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons greenmage8
(38/M/Watertown/Boston Mass) 1/13/01 10:38 am
Dragons should be mega powerful and smart and RARE! If people were tripping over them high powered NPCs would be poaching/harvesting them for magical components. They're intelligence should be used in settingthem up and placing them in the campaign. They won't be just wandering around without motivation. Not your typical "Chaotic Hungry" alignment.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3890 by Draco77

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Message 3930 of 6732 Reply

ur answer canack_xain
1/13/01 7:58 pm
yes i agree half at least dragons should be rare and powerful i dont think they should be smart thou.


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Message 3931 of 6732 Reply

my game canack_xain
1/13/01 8:03 pm
hi i am a dm and i make role playin d&d sorta games but i dont have my own books cant find any were i live.i think magic weapons,items, and armour should be fond.like in baldurs gate 2 they sell SOME magic weapons and stuff.but i think it should be tottly fond on ur own.and if u could give me in advice for my games i make i would like that i have all the basics in d&d and i have made many games for role playin (23) the last 5 have been really good.


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Message 3932 of 6732 Reply

Re: ur answer messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 1/13/01 9:36 pm
You are a fool. If you think dragons are stupid, then I question your intelligence. They have been around for decades and your telling me that they are not smart? They can cast magics beyond our wildest dreams but yet they are not smart? LOL! Your mistaken my friend

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3930 by canack_xain

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Message 3933 of 6732 Reply

Re: Maps Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 1/14/01 1:49 am
I just uploaded a gif of the map into the club photos section. It is in an album with my name on it. Hope it does the job for you.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3906 by vahjra

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Message 3934 of 6732 Reply

Re: Maps helixgames
1/14/01 9:08 am
I would be willing to generate world maps...maybe a couple a week and post on here for free if the "founders" bless the idea. I just purchased ProFantasy's Fractual World builder and it ROCKS !Yall' let me know what you think about this idea.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3933 by Eoganachta

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Message 3935 of 6732 Reply

Re: Maps dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/14/01 1:55 pm
I love it

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3934 by helixgames

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Message 3936 of 6732 Reply

Re: Maps dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/14/01 1:56 pm
check out the old books coutry sites city sites and castle sites too

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3906 by vahjra

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Message 3937 of 6732 Reply

Re: Psionics in 3rd Edition dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/14/01 2:01 pm
1 of 2 ideas
1 my favorite no psionics at all
2 wait to introduce them untill you get the 3rd hand book

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3927 by ShotGlass12

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Message 3938 of 6732 Reply

New DM! myst_shado
1/14/01 3:40 pm
I'm very new to Dungeons and Dragons -- I haven't even created a scenario of my own yet. I was wondering if anyone had nay tips on DMing...And if anyone knows what Hit Dice are (I know this might sound stupid), if you could tell me what they are, I would appreciate it.


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Message 3939 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 1/14/01 3:49 pm
hit dice...? hit dice?!...

well, not sure about 3e, but in AD&D it meant the number of 8 sided dice you roll for hit points, i.e. an orc with 1 hit die has 1-8 hit points..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3938 by myst_shado

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Message 3940 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! myst_shado
1/14/01 4:26 pm
Hmmmmm....I'm not sure I understand.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3939 by leeok31

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Message 3941 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 1/14/01 4:40 pm
Oh lordie

Ok, if something has 1 hit dice, you roll 1 eight sided dice for his hit points. It you roll a four, then it has 4 hit points

If something has 60 hit dice, then you roll 60 eight sided dice for its hit points!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3940 by myst_shado

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Message 3942 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! myst_shado
1/14/01 5:04 pm
Oh! I get it! Thanks!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3941 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3943 of 6732 Reply

A few questions that need answers.... myst_shado
1/14/01 5:33 pm
How do you determine the character's Misc Modifier and Magic Modifier? Please tell me, I need answers soon..... (My brother is making a character and needs to know)


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Message 3944 of 6732 Reply

Lack of sleep Calitrojan
1/14/01 5:52 pm
What are the effects of not sleeping in 3rd edition. I have been poring over the books and have been unable to locate the rules regarding not sleeping.

Also what are the rules regarding sleeding in one's armor... and armor degredation from misuse...?

And as always, if you are interested in having your group join in with the Living Lithandril project, contact me at calitrojan@yahoo.com


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Message 3945 of 6732 Reply

Re: Lack of sleep Scott_Gigot
(25/M/De Pere, WI) 1/14/01 7:21 pm
Good evening everyone.

I am far, far from an expert on 3E rules (I'm most of the way through the PHB, and don't own the DMG yet). I know 2E didn't address sleep at all. However, the 1E supplement _Wilderness Survival Guide_ has a good treatment of sleep (and from my personal sleep-deprivation experiments (college), it's accurate).

To summarize, characters need 5 hours of sleep per day to function normally (this doesn't cover time needed for spellcasters to regain spells). A character must get short-changed TWO days in a row in order to suffer these effects (so if a character only gets 3 or 4 hours one night but gets a good night's rest the next night, they're ok). Lack of sleep causes all kinds of penalties (Dex, Str, Wis, Con, to hit, movement, climbing ability, weight allowance). The movement penalties only figure in during non-combat movement; apparently adrenaline kicks in when you're jumped by a band of trolls.

Certain conditions decrease the "effective amount" of sleep a character gets. If the character isn't comfortable (poor bedding, extreme temperatures, excessive wind, precipitation, and most importantly wearing armor (-3 hours effective for any metal armor except plate; -4 hours for plate)

The penalties (for which there's a table that I don't feel like copying (right now)) go by AVERAGE hours of sleep per 24 hours for the entire period the character has been getting less than 5 hours per night. A single night of 5 hours or more ends all of the penalties.

If you want more details, let me know. I suppose I could hook up the scanner and OCR the appropriate pages this week.

Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3944 by Calitrojan

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Message 3946 of 6732 Reply

Re: A few questions that need answers... leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 1/14/01 9:21 pm
all greek to me.. must be a 3e thing..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3943 by myst_shado

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Message 3947 of 6732 Reply

Re: A few questions that need answers... pjerks
(34/M/NY) 1/14/01 9:36 pm
<>

Modifiers to what?

PJ

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3943 by myst_shado

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Message 3948 of 6732 Reply

Re: Lack of sleep shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 1/14/01 9:44 pm
The 2e PHB addresses sleeping in armor:

(pg 105, 1st paragraph)
"If you sleep in a suit of armor with an armor check penalty of -5 or worse, you are automatically fatigued the next day. You suffer a -2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity, and can't charge or run."

The 3e DMG defines "Exhausted" and "Fatigued" conditions:
(pg 84, para 12 & 13)

"Exhausted: Characters who are exhausted move at half normal speed and suffer an effective penalty of -6 to Strength and Dexterity ... After one hour of complete rest, exhausted characters become fatigued."

"Fatigued: Characters who are fatigued cannot run or charge and suffer an effective penalty of -2 to Strength and Dexterity. A fatigued character becomes exhauste by doing something else that would normally cause fatigue. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued."

The 3e PHB mentions subdual damage in a forced march on page 143, but I can't find anything that relates to lack of sleep.

I think I would apply the following:

At the beginning of each day where a character did not get 8 hours of sleep (or 4 hours of "trance" for an elf), make a Fortitude save, difficulty 10 +1 per hour less than 8 (or half hour of trance less than 4) per night, cumulative. Failure results in the character being Fatigued.

For example, a character gets six hours of sleep the first night, he saves against a DC of 12 (10+2), the next night, he gets five hours sleep, DC: 15 (10+2+3), and so on, until he gets a full 8 hours of sleep.

Yes, I realize that most people can funtion with less than 8 hours of sleep, in fact I rarely get more than 6 hours of sleep per night, but after a while that adds up, and I'm not out dungeon crawling, fighting beasts, or otherwise saving the world. Characters with a high Constitution and/or Fortitude save may be able to go for weeks without 8 hours of sleep per night, or even for few days without any sleep. Spell casters, of course, still require 8 hours of rest (not necessarily sleep) to prepare spells.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3945 by Scott_Gigot

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Message 3949 of 6732 Reply

Do you guys accept GMs too? J_maistros
1/14/01 10:01 pm
I got recommended here from a friend, and i've played D&D, but i dont DM it. Instead i GM alternity, which can be very broadly described as D&D in space, but there are a number of definate differences. Anyway, i was wondering if you people whom i do not know are cool with that, becaue i am still very new at this, and could use some advice, or if i should look elsewhere. ok, see y'all later.


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Message 3950 of 6732 Reply

Re: A few questions that need answers... myst_shado
1/14/01 10:18 pm
On the character sheet. You have to add modifiers and the like..........

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3947 by pjerks

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Message 3951 of 6732 Reply

Re: Lack of sleep leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 1/14/01 10:22 pm
My way of handling it is a bit different - I guess it stems from DMing so long..

Anyhow, I usually assume 8 hours - I ask 'who's taking watch the first 4, then the second?'

If they say they want to get up early, I'll let em. If they do this 3 days in a row, I tell em 'you're starting to feel the affects of lack of sleep'..

Trying a fourth day, I tell em 'the party is in no shape to adventure. You've begun bickering with each other about every little thing, the spellcasters spells are going to unpredictable at best,' etc.

Basically, I don't allow them to push on further.. until they sleep in til, oh, 'bout noon..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3948 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 3952 of 6732 Reply

Re: Do you guys accept GMs too? leeok31
(33/M/Catoosa, OK) 1/14/01 10:24 pm
we allow anyone, I guess... but NO IRISH!...:P

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3949 by J_maistros

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Message 3953 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/15/01 8:18 am
And if anyone knows what Hit Dice are (I know this might sound stupid), >>>

The only stupid question is the one not asked

Hit Dice are roughly the equivalent to levels in monsters and for determining hit points. One hit die is a d8. ie. 3HD monster is 3d8 for 3-24 hit points. Also the some creatures can also have classes so have to be treated as a NPC in regards to Hit Die.

Nyvek MHORC

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3938 by myst_shado

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Message 3954 of 6732 Reply

Re: Lack of sleep Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/15/01 8:22 am
Also what are the rules regarding sleeding in one's armor... and armor degredation from misuse...?>>>

They are in the back of "The running a adventure" section of the DMG. I will look them up tonight and post the page numbers if no one else does.

Nyvek MHORC

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3944 by Calitrojan

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Message 3955 of 6732 Reply

Re: Lack of sleep Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/15/01 8:27 am
I agree with the way Lee does it. Remember as a DM you can allow rules (called house rules) that will make your world more real.


Nyvek MHORC

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3951 by leeok31

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Message 3956 of 6732 Reply

Re: Do you guys accept GMs too? Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/15/01 8:30 am
but NO IRISH!>>>>

ERIN GO BRAUGH!!!


Nyvek Paladin from the Land of Erin (Ireland)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3952 by leeok31

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Message 3957 of 6732 Reply

Re: Maps Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/15/01 8:52 am
Fractal Terrains is on my wish list. Let me ask you this. I want to take my campaign world that I have been using for the last 15 years, which comprises basically a single continent, and use FT to create an entire world with that continent in the middle. Does FT allow you to manipulate the output so that I can create some semblance of my old campaign world (shape, geographic features, etc.)?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3934 by helixgames

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Message 3958 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/15/01 9:55 am
Does anybody remember that Dragon Magazine article back in the 1e days about dragon scale armor? I thought that was a mega cool idea. The idea was that an armorer could build a suit of armor from the scales of a dragon that would protect against the breath weapon of that dragon, and simiar attacks. I have always wanted to have a character do that, but alas, none have slain a dragon yet.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3929 by greenmage8

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Message 3959 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 1/15/01 2:27 pm
I remember the article, as well as have seen it in actual play.

The best thing to do with this type of armor is to NOT have it as powerful as the dragon it came from. Normal stats, plus some tweeking for it to be believable dragon scale. Such as: NOT being totally impervious to dragon attacks, better protection against the special attacks from the type of dragon it came from only, and that like. Otherwise, it all comes down to the power mad, power hungry, I'M A GOD type of mentality, which other players might start to take as a hint to bring about your demise..... :) ....

In one of the games I am involved with, the main character has this type of armor. It IS superior, but the tough part is keeping the right mind set.... Although, I still think my centaur that has it as barding has a better mind for it... he just forgets he has it on!!

Let me know if you use this armor...be interesting to see how differently it is played!


Ciao,

Dragn_Lady

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3958 by Umbratikus

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Message 3960 of 6732 Reply

Re: A few questions that need answers... pjerks
(34/M/NY) 1/15/01 4:43 pm


Okay, For the saving throws, the ability modifiers are the ones corresponding to the save. i.e. for Fortitude, use the Constitution ability modifier, Reflex is Dexterity and Will is Wisdom. As for Magic Modifiers, they come from any magic items your charactor may possess.

Melee ability modifier is Strength and Ranged is Dexterity (yes, the same modifier you used for Reflex saving throw).

Ability modifiers for skills, you'll have to look them up in the Player's Handbook, there are too many to list here.

Hopefully, some of this info will help.
PJ

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3950 by myst_shado

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Message 3961 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons orgruff
(32/M/Australia, not UK) 1/15/01 6:04 pm
Dragn_Lady wrote: In one of the games I am involved with, the main character has this type
of armor. It IS superior, but the tough part is keeping the right mind set....

Gives me an idea. Maybe the spirit of the dragon might try to influence the Player. He might get ideas which could lead to his downfall. Or maybe the downfall of some old enemys of the dragon. That's an idea which might be worth exploring.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3959 by dragn_lady

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Message 3962 of 6732 Reply

Re: A few questions that need answers... mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 1/15/01 8:07 pm
I hope I do not confuse the issues here, but I am speaking from 2E. (I resisted upgrading to 2E, and refuse to upgrade to 3E. I dont have $600 to get all the new books, and i don't have any more room on my shelves:) )

With regards to misc. modifiers, do not forget that some races and classes have these types of modifiers. Like Dwarves have pluses to save vs magic or poison, Elves have pluses to use a sword or a bow, and the Ranger has pluses against his chosen racial enemy.

I have also seen character kits play arround with mics pluses as well, I believe they are now called prestiege classes? (Is that correct) in 3E.

That is my 2 cp worth.

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3960 by pjerks

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Message 3963 of 6732 Reply

Dragon Armor Evertree
1/15/01 9:41 pm
Howdy Folks,

The ancient Draconomicon (TSR circa 1990) had many details about harvesting of dragon hide and the cost & preparation of manufacturing the armor. The old Monstrous Compendium also has a bit of knowledge about dragon armor.

Here are some notes:
-There are 2 types of armor that can be made from dragon hide, Scale, and Leather.
-Any armorer experienced with hide can make scale armor, but it will just be pretty. No special protective qualities or AC bonuses.
-Only a trained/practiced armorer or a specialist in dragon hide can manufacture exceptional dragon scale of any dragon leather.
-The armorer's experience and skill check determine the quality and final AC of the armor
-Dragon armor can have a AC maximum natural of 4 worse than the dragon it was taken from
-Generally(Always DM Option), the armor confers no special resistances as the Dragon's resistance is based in magic and not biology.
-If enchanted, the armor will display an affinity for reproducing the same resistances as the dragon it was taken from [Enchanted Red hide will protect you from fire much better than regular leather with the same spells cast upon it]

All of that was the basic rules (2E) from memory. My oldest surviving character is the god Alanthias now... Dragonlord of Haven say no more - say no more.


E.


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Message 3964 of 6732 Reply

ps: Dragon Armor Evertree
1/15/01 9:59 pm
First a correction:
-Only a trained/practiced armorer or a specialist in dragon hide can manufacture exceptional dragon scale armor OR dragon leather armor.

Second, more on Dragon Leather:
-Making *Dragon Leather* armor is an esoteric art, and often kept a secret among dragonslayers.
-If properly constructed, it is as light and supple as any fine leather armor while having the durability and protection of enchanted armor.
-While the the construction of the armor is costly [up to 5 or 10k GP], even the least protective suits are rare and beautiful enough to easily be sold for twice the manufacturing price

Thirdly, Shields I think:
I never was big on unenchanted shields so I never did much research into them. When properly constructed, dragon hide shields are as strong and durable as metal while being light. Depending on the quality of construction, they may have a nonmagical protective bonus +1 or MAYBE +2. The +2 is pushing it, though. Like all dragon hide armor, shields easily accept protective magics.


E.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3963 by Evertree

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Message 3965 of 6732 Reply

Looking for a few DMs slythe98
1/15/01 10:40 pm
Trying to start an online gaming club here in yahoo. Looking for some DMs to help build and populate the land. If you are interested in having fun and helping a fellow DM check out the site and come talk withhttp://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mysticsteeldanddclub me.


Slythe98


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Message 3966 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 1/16/01 12:05 am
also, if you're playing 3e some creatures have different hit dice.. humaniods have d8 dragons and undead have d12 some things have d6 or d 10 as well. the hit die for a creature is listed under "Hit Dice" in the MM entry

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3953 by Draco77

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Message 3967 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/16/01 7:52 am
Sorry you are right.
I stand corrected


Nyvek

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3966 by Shabooah

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Message 3968 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/16/01 9:31 am
play in a game or two with experienced Dm
hd evereyone has seem to have expliined it well so far but heres my 2 cents


HD = level of tuffness a charter has attened
HP = amout of damage it takes to kill

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3938 by myst_shado

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Message 3969 of 6732 Reply

Re: ps: Dragon Armor Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/16/01 10:36 am
<>

With the rarity and power of dragons, as most have professed to play them here, how exactly would one become a specialist making in dragon hide armor?

<>

This brings to mind the Dragonslayer movie.

I liked ogruff's idea about the spirit of the dragon influencing the character wearing his hide. That might be fun for the DM.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3964 by Evertree

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Message 3970 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/16/01 10:44 am
<>

This is the best advice yet. If at all possible, you should try to play the game before attempting to be a DM. Or at least sit in on a game and watch (but don't ask too many questions during game play).

If you and your players are all learning together, just make sure everyone there is realizes that there is a learning curve involved and that eveyone is willing to be patient. Things will run smoother the more you play. Don't get discouraged your first time out.

Lastly, you might want to focus on a pre-made adventure instead of trying to write your own, at least in the beginning. This way you see how adventures are constructed and paced. Return to Keep on the Borderlands is a great module for newbie DM's (although it is 2e).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3968 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3971 of 6732 Reply

Re: ps: Dragon Armor Evertree
1/16/01 3:59 pm
"With the rarity and power of dragons, as most have professed to play them here, how exactly would one become a specialist making in dragon hide armor?"

It is pretty tough and rare unless you can find an established group of Dragon Slayers willing to apprentice you. But that's just as rare too.

This is a typical scenario and one I adventured (as my first campaign). A warrior takes to adventuring and slaying exotic creaures. What warrior doesn't want bragging tokens during their early adventuring days? My character was already a proficient woodsman and leatherworker. He experiemented with preserving hides after battle so that he could later make really cool looking armor. Thus began his exotic armor skill.

Later they slay the most powerful type of creature known, a dragon. Ofcourse he wants to make armor from it as well while the mage is cutting out pieces for spell components and the thief is pulling out teeth to sell. He salvages what he can and experiments with fashioning armor. You can't learn much from haphazard 1 dragon every 3 years... but this character took to the obsession and profession of "Dragonslayer". Throughout his career he sought out evil dragons and slayed them (when able) and always fashioned armor.

As a lord, his elite ranger followers also took up the same profession, and he formed tha areas first cabal of dragon slayers. During his early years he had also sought out other workers of exotic leather and trained. Few had ever worked with dragon hide, but a troupe of wood elves told him the secrets of working with green dragon hide. What he learned, he gave to his most skilled and loyal followers so that they could fashion armor while he hunted, adventured, or saw to the needs of his kingdom.

A decade later and the "Dragon Lord" knows all there is to know about Oeridian and Celestial dragons and he is an expert at dragon armor. Maybe one of the apprentices leaves for distant lands or the big city and a little knowledge in dragon armor goes with him. In 10 years he might be a local "expert" with apprentices of his own.

It's cool to have the spirit of the dragon influencing the armor. Think about a group of warriors wearing armor from the same evil dragon... being compelled by the same ancient and evil source. Lots of potential.


E.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3969 by Umbratikus

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Message 3972 of 6732 Reply

Re: ps: Dragon Armor dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/everywhere) 1/16/01 5:10 pm
True my favorite is when they have dragon armor ... example
red dragon scale armor and they encounter a mated pair of mature adult red dragons ..
or when they encounter the dragon they slayed's mate parents etc..
i like to toss a curse such as
green dragon armor when worn is slowly poisoned
red always hot
white always cold
blues attracts lighting
gold midus touch
silver reflects all light
bronze conducts electricty
copper is infected with a corresise flesh eating disease
etc...

but my favorite is they slayed and made red dragon armor for all in the party that can wear it and are out adventuring and secertly being tracted by a couple of adult silver dragons with elfen windrider's mounted on whgo swoop down and attact before relizing what they reaLLY are ?:)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3971 by Evertree

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Message 3973 of 6732 Reply

Re: Maps vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 1/16/01 5:41 pm
That would be a much appreceited resource if you are willing and the founders grant you the power.

thanks for offering.

vah-

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3934 by helixgames

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Message 3974 of 6732 Reply

Re: ps: Dragon Armor mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 1/17/01 4:10 am
<>

I do not profess such rairity. I like to think of it more like the old joke "Do you ever see an elephant hiding in a tree?" most people will so no or never, and the punch line is "They hide really good, don't they?"

I like to think of dragons hiding in plain sight. In the bottom of swamps, deep in the forests, caves, in polar regions, or in or near an active volcano, depending on their color.

If a dragon made it's presence noticed, then every dragon slayer in the realm would be after it's hide.

However, do not forget that the dragons are fond of polymorphing themselves to give the wrong impressions.

The farmer who loat a son, or some cattle to a wolf attach will never know it was a dragon out for a snack, will he?

This will be especially true if there is a creature harassing a dragon's layer.

For example, there is a ork mining camp which is disturping the cave the dragon has made for it's layer. Instead of torching the whole orc population, the dragon poses as an orc and makes several raids to the local human establisment, maybe even kisnapping a daughter of a dignitary and leaving a ransom note.

Well the humans come in, trash the orc,s and the dragon sits back and laughs at how gullible the races are.

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3969 by Umbratikus

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Message 3975 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 1/17/01 4:38 am
Hi again UmbratiKus,

I agree with your assessment, and wished to add to it.

If the time permist, I recomend attempting to play most of the magor races and classes. As a playe4r character you will come to appreciate the dwarves ability to detect stonework, or the elves ability to notice secret doors. Then as DM you will not forget these abilities when your players take the dwarves or elves into your dungeons.

AS a player you will learn that every class has it's strengths and weaknesses, and you will see how these classes fair in the game situation. As A DM this may give you insight when trying to prepare an easy or a difficult encounter for your players. You will have had expierience with these strengths and weaknesses.

As A Dm you suggested using pre printed adventures instead of making your own. Dungeon magazine is great for short adventures, which have many different levels of adventures in each issue. This is a good place to get started.

Also, Dragon magazine has issues whichdeal entirely with one race, in the past year they had an all Dwarf, an all Elf, and all Dark elf, and an issue gor Gnomes / Halflings reciently. These would be good to get a look at just to see if anything there inspires you.

Lastly, I would recommend when you do start writing your first adventure, you may want to "Borrow" the plot from one of your favorite books, or tv shows. Just make sure the players are not as well versed with the material as you are, or they may realize what you have done and walk through the adventure.

An example here is: I DM a Ravenloft campaign. I have plans to turn the "Phantom of the Opera" into a Ravenloft adventure. Most of my players are unfamiliar with this play / book, and those who are read it years ago. I must be careful to change the names of the main characters (and perhaps remove the French influence.) Depending on how creative or flaky I feel when I try this, I could muddle a lot with the main point of the story. maybe the main singer is an Elf, her love interest is a human, and the dark tutor is a dwarf or an orc, just to add another twist.

You may want some general advice as a DM when the time comes. thinks like whenever you plan only 1 way to solve a puzzle, the players will find 5 more. The PC's will never do what you expect. You may wnat to create a file of just in case stuff when the adventure starts breaking down. The vilians you want to escape, or have a long dialog with the PC's will get aces early on. (Have a fall back, make him / her the mouth piece and not the master). Stuff like that.

There are many misleading comparisons between a Roleplaying DM and a storyteller. The one biggest flaw with this, is that the actors, or PC's will not follow the script you have in mind. You have to be flexible enough to deal with this eventuality. (unless you become great at gussing the actions of your players).
Also, another pitfall of DMing the idea of the DM vs the players. (I fall into this one a lot), You as the DM present the challenges, and situations. They are suppose to overcome your villinas and monsters. When they do this faster than you planned, you musn't take it personally.

I think another DM posted on a club like this, that the villina that gets aced too fast becomes a henchman. Now the PC's have to worry about the power behind the vilian they aced. (From Baulder's gate, a good idea is to place a note on the corpse with orders from his superior with only an initial)

Hope this helps. Just remember the over all idea is to have fun (for both you and your players).

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3970 by Umbratikus

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Message 3976 of 6732 Reply

Re: ps: Dragon Armor mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 1/17/01 4:48 am
Hello Dungeonmaster1st,


I like the idea about the curses, but I prefer more subtle ones. Wouldn't the curses you have make these suits non-practical to use on a regular basis? Especially if a character hates heat or cold?

When I think of curses for sutiations like this, I think more in terms of what these suits will attract to the wearer.

Red scales might attract warmer weather, fire god worshipers may try to rip off the suit, or pay homage to the wearer. The PC might be visited by a fire elemental, or an Efreet. (Better yet, make some prophacy about an arranged marriage between an Efreet /Efteeta and a humanoid in dragon's skin.) How about, a brood of young dragons hatches but their mother is not arround. They pick up the sent of the dragon scales and follow the PC calling him Mommey and wanting to be fed? What happens when the Mother does return? How do the PC's deal with 2d6 hatchlings?

I know I am evel arn't I. Comes from DM-ing Ravenloft too long.


Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3972 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3977 of 6732 Reply

Re: ps: Dragon Armor Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/17/01 8:37 am
Also how would Dragons react to a Dragon Lord and his followers who is out to kill all evil dragons.
I think they would band together briefly to destroy them. As to Dragon Armor, its a great idea but in my world a dragon can sense the other dragons, they could also sense the armor. So a Red flying by sense's the armor so he swoops down to investigate and see the party. Get mad and a new combat begins.


Clay

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3974 by mattbcieri

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Message 3978 of 6732 Reply

You can check out anytime you want SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 1/17/01 10:26 am
Here's some fodder for discussion:

How would you go about turning The Eagle's "Hotel California" into a module?

I've thought about doing this for a convention game and have never quite gotten around to doing it.

I can't imagine doing it without either pregen'ed characters or PCs the GM knows very well, down to knowing what sort of temptations will exactly hook them like the drug addiction I'm told the song is speaking about.

I see the lady who's mind is "Tiffany twisted" as maybe either an enchantress or even an extra-planar temptress of some sort.

"Those voices are calling from far away; wake you up in the middle of the night, just to hear them say:" Ghosts or haunts, maybe? Warning the PCs of the dangers in the velvet prison?

I'm just curious to see what others would do with the concept.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3977 by Draco77

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Message 3979 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 1/17/01 10:59 am
I myself am doing a campaign based on Terry Brook's 'Shannara' series for the 3rd Edition. The only problem with using books as campaign ideas is that 1) You may have to force the players along the plot if you wish to really follow the books. 2) If they have read them then you get them killing people in advance who were essential to the plot. 3)You have to alter the game rules as you go along to account for different systems. I myself like changing every other rule to adapt, but if you want to go by the core rules then don't use books except for maps.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3975 by mattbcieri

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Message 3980 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/17/01 11:40 am
Will the classic "Guitar Riff" be a wandering monster?

Guitar Riff
AC: 22 (+6 Natural, +6 DEX)
HD: 6d12+8 (59 hps)
Attacks: +8 Sonic Mewl -- 2-12 pts. DAM
Special Qualities: Scent
Feats: Improved Inititiative

etc., etc.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3978 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3981 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/17/01 11:42 am
I, for one, have always wanted to pit a party of characters against an entire Black Sabbath album. Hmmm ... Volume IV? Pararnoid? Black Sabbath (their debut)? Oh, the possibilities ...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3978 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3982 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 1/17/01 12:10 pm
Nah, Guitar Riff is the musical version of the slacker/inventor of Sluggy Freelance. You'd need Alternity to write his stats, I think.

(Sluggy's an online comic. It's nifty.

http://www.sluggy.com

Right now the art's a bit... odd since a guest cartoonist is filling in for the regular.)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3980 by madteuton

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Message 3983 of 6732 Reply

Dragons & Armor Evertree
1/17/01 2:23 pm
Hey Clay,

You said: "As to Dragon Armor, its a great idea but in my world a dragon can sense the other dragons, they could also sense the armor"

I like to have things make sense or follow some logical order. I could say that, in the realms, dragons may sense eachother. Being inherently magical creatues and very powerful, they can feel eachothers presence through emanations in the Weave. Certain mages should then be able to sense dragon magic too, if they focussed. But once a dragon is dead, his corpse is just a corpse and it doesn't even detectas magical. Why should a dragon be able to sense a piece of cleaned and treated skin?
If the armor was enchanted and it gained some of the dragon's special abilities, then I could see that other dragons could sense the invoked dragon magic. But only if it were extremely powerful armor and the dragon was very near.


About the other stuff:
Dragons are HIGHLY territorial and tend to have domains free and clear from other dragons. There are often dead zones of unclaimed human kingdoms between them. Dragons are greedy also and would love to see a rival go down. Reds don't like other reds unless briefly when it is mating time, and the generally only pairs of good and evil dragons have the same territory land type. I mean that each metallic has a very differnt terrain type and each chromatic does too, but blue and bronze dragons might love the same type of area, for instance, or only silver and white dragons enjoy the deep cold.

Being arrogant, they'd probably be too stubborn and proud to admit fear of a few humans somehow finding and coming for them. I've never heard of dragons cooperating for anything outside of Krynn and Io's Blood. It makes alot of sense.


E.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3977 by Draco77

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Message 3984 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons & Armor dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/muiltiverse) 1/17/01 3:27 pm
Yo dude Io's blood is the best source to use for dragons it truly makes them the powers that are in 2nd edtion and alittle work makes it great for 3rd also !!
I also always rules dragons can sense eachother's presense and being inteligent as they are would work together in the right situations like and outside threat to them would cause a temory allaince ... such as if an adventuring party was out dragon slaying ?:>
using books as ideas is a good way for story but i prefer to use them as a basis of the the book ground for the world... then start my storyline after the books story has ended same goes for movies !! it gives everyone a chance to see the history in an easy way to remember!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3983 by Evertree

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Message 3985 of 6732 Reply

Playing Clubs Evertree
1/17/01 4:30 pm
I've just started posting/playing in a 2E roleplaying club. It seems an interesting enough idea and it is fun to flesh out and roleplay characters in a storytelling mode. What I was wondering is if anyone has any thoughts about the subject?

I was also wondering more specifically about how you DM's would go about setting up a club like that. Hit points and AC are generally out and the "game" would be more focussed on storytelling and presenting characters. With this in consideration, what would be some useful rules or guidelines?
I may post some ideas later, but I'm sure some of you already have practical experience at it and not just theory.


E.


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Message 3986 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! myst_shado
1/17/01 5:32 pm
I'm planning to try one of the books, and change the rule a little to fit the campain that I'm planning. If all goes well, I think I'll try a scenario of my own. Everyone here has been a lot of help. Thanks!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3979 by sneakabout2

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Message 3987 of 6732 Reply

Re: Playing Clubs dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/muiltiverse) 1/17/01 7:28 pm
I'd focus more on the role playing in the club then actually battle etc...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3985 by Evertree

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Message 3988 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/muiltiverse) 1/17/01 7:29 pm
your welcome !!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3986 by myst_shado

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Message 3989 of 6732 Reply

thinking about a new world dungeonmaster1st
(100/M/muiltiverse) 1/17/01 7:31 pm
Hey guys I was thinking about a new world based on the dragon riders of pern , except alittle bit more ADD like for 3rd edtion but I'm stuck in one aspect the Dragons how to create the dragons of pern for the game since they are way different then in the MM any Ideas!! let me know thanks guys


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Message 3990 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 1/18/01 7:51 am
Or maybe AC/DC - Hells Bells ? - Back in Black ? . . . .hmmmmmm

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3981 by madteuton

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Message 3991 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/18/01 8:03 am
Zeppelin!!

Their fourth album especially strikes me as having D&D possibilities.

"Four Sticks"! "Misty Mountain Hop" (over the hills where the spirits fly)!!

"Battle of Evermore"!!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3990 by karrakain

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Message 3992 of 6732 Reply

Re: New DM! madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/18/01 8:10 am
<>

What about my welcome??

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3988 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3993 of 6732 Reply

Re: Dragons & Armor Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/18/01 8:22 am
Why should a dragon be able to sense a piece of cleaned and treated skin? >>>

Dragon armor would keep some magic of the dragon.They inheritly magic. How else would it readily accept magic. Since the worlds are fantasy worlds and I said on my worlds not everyones, the Dragons could still sense the magic left in the armor. Also being territorial they would investigate to see who was in their territory, then upon seeing the party in dragon skin and has decided to releive them of it. This is not revenge, it wouldn't be anything other than, if they can kill a dragon then they are powerful enough to warrant my attention

<<<>>>

Why, How many times in history have you seen people using each other for their own agenda. A smart ancient red dragon could coerce,threaten and bargain with other dragons to protect his territory. They are not stupid regardless of how they are played. Intelligent creaures will not as a whole watch their excinction just so they don't have to admit they need help. Some would most wouldn't.
question- Does everyone you know, act the same?

IMHO I don't think dragons should not be used as a easy treasure trove. I think if a party encounters one and defeats it once in their characters lifetime, then they have had a great adventure.


Nyvek Following a logical order!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3983 by Evertree

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Message 3994 of 6732 Reply

Re: thinking about a new world Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/18/01 8:28 am
how to create the dragons of pern for the game since they are way different then in the MM >>>

Its been awhile since I read the Draognriders of Pern, so I couldn't tell you stats. What I usually do to create a new creature close to something in the MM is throw out everything and then start from scratch.

The Dragons have a breath weapon to use against the thread, but if I remember right the colors have different special abilities.
I think one uses dimension door.

I hope this helps a little


Nyvek MHORC

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3989 by dungeonmaster1st

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Message 3995 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/18/01 8:29 am
How about Rush?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3991 by madteuton

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Message 3996 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/18/01 8:36 am
Fly By Night!! I saw them when I was, like, 16 (my first concert ever). The Power Windows tour. My ears are still ringing.

In these odd terms, I would compare my DMing style most closely to Yes's earlier catalog (Tales from the Topographic Ocean and such). You know, mystical. I just recently saw Steve Howe play a small, intimate venue by my house. Man, is he talented!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3995 by Draco77

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Message 3997 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/18/01 8:55 am
My DMing style would be more like Alice Cooper and Frank Zappa's. Wicked sense of Humor.

Nyvek MHORC

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3996 by madteuton

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Message 3998 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 1/18/01 8:57 am
I can get with that.

Sheesh, I wonder what a Devo DMing style would be like ...

Or, a Beck (no, Nyvek, not Jeff) DMing style ...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3997 by Draco77

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Message 3999 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want Draco77
(37/M/Forgotten Realms Ohio) 1/18/01 9:29 am
, I wonder what a Devo DMing style would be like >>>>

It would be on one of the really strange planes.
Take a mushroom and maybe you could keep up


Nyvek (not jeff either)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3998 by madteuton

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Message 4000 of 6732 Reply

Re: You can check out anytime you want Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 1/18/01 9:36 am
Rush's 2112 could make an entire campaign.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3990 by karrakain