Posts 3001-3500

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Message 3001 of 6726 Reply

Re: Join a pathetic club - FOUNDER TIPS Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 9/19/00 9:06 pm
i joined because of the discussion, not because you plastered your link everywhere.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 2999 by prolixlacuna

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Message 3002 of 6726 Reply

Quest spells orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 9/20/00 12:14 am
I am considering using a quest spell for the first time ever (I usually like to get the players motivated about an adventure rather than motivating the PC's.
The only reason I'm doing it now is that somebody died and the group had no cash or items the clerics wanted but the clerics did have this problem.... Anyway I need some input as to how to guide the roleplayng of the compulsion to go and do it. Anybody have some experiances they'd like to share of what did, did not work for them?

Orgruff


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Message 3003 of 6726 Reply

Re: Quest spells SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 9/20/00 11:00 am
I had almost the same thing happen. A friendly NPC was backstabbed and paralyzed from the waist down. One PC petitioned the nearest high-level clerics for a scroll of regeneration. Seeing as how the NPC wasn't of their faith (or race) but had been a friend of their community, they provided one... on the condition that the PC would find and return a lost holy item that was desperately needed.

My favorite part is that the PC is a priest of Lliira who can't use weapons of any sort, and the quest item is a sword.

He dithered and wondered and I told him that yes, he might lose some higher-level spells if he's carrying it around. But in the end, his character decided that it was worth it to help the NPC friend. He will, of course, ask the rest of the party to assist. No quest spells or geas were needed.

Are the ties of friendship to the dead character strong enough that the party will undertake a quest without compulsion? And are they honorable enough to follow through? If it's yes to one, no to two, maybe the dead character's player could temporarily play a cleric of the temple, sent with the PCs to keep an eye on them... and their friend won't be resurrected until they return with the item. (Maybe the item's needed to perform the resurrection?)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3002 by orgruff View Replies to this Message

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Message 3004 of 6726 Reply

Re: Quest spells gothicson
(M/Seattle) 9/20/00 2:22 pm
I like the other reply in that if you can get your PC's to do the quest onthe force of there comitment alone that is truly awsome. However if you have a group of PC's that would lie or just never get around to what they should do then the spell is a good idea. Here are two things I have used on groups over the years.
01 While under the quest the only experience points I gave the group was for actions related to the quest. Of course I give out experience points for things other than killing just like I don't always give out experience points for killing things. I like to run things a little free form. This can work real well if you do.
02 The second thing I did was for a group that was activly seeking to not compleate a quest for a church that they had agreed too. I started harassing them... first the animals (birds in this case) started bothering them. Have you ever been followed by a flock of birds around town who were bent on releaving themselves of your head? Embarising to say the least, and if that is not doing it then think of the increased number of random encounters that happen when they follow you out of town, and forget about sneeking up on anything.
After the birds went on for a good month and they refused to budge well all sorts of things started to happen with in 6 months. 4 of them had gotten nasty sicknesses, 1 a night blindness, guard dogs ran away, horses bolted, animals would not come near them, clerics of the god saw them as marked, and a blind profit followed them around the capital city crying out agains them.
Two of them attacked the blind profit wich was a mistake because tey were using non-magical fists to beat up a creature from the outer planes that required +1 or better to hit. He had a nice talk with them after he kicked there butts and they relised the error of there ways.
After all when the gods can walk the earth and sometimes do, it isn't always a good idea to mess with them...;-) Good Luck on your game.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3002 by orgruff

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Message 3005 of 6726 Reply

Re: Quest spells orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 9/20/00 7:22 pm
The aim of it is to ensure that the PC's repay the clerics for their time and trouble. The priests do not know the PC's well enough to trust them and I want the game flow to continue.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3002 by orgruff

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Message 3006 of 6726 Reply

Re: Quest spells Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/21/00 8:26 am
I like GothicSon's first option. You can ensure the characters continue on their quest by not awarding xp for anything other than pursuit of the quest. Most players want to raise levels, so this should be enough incentive.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3005 by orgruff

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Message 3007 of 6726 Reply

What's it like being DEAD? Demonic_Cultist
(26/M/Monticello, MN) 9/21/00 12:00 pm
Hey all,
a PC o'mine was asking me the other week,"so what's it like bein' dead? With my head on the ground over there and all..". This guy has had to sit out a couple sessions until the group managed to get his body to the Family priest, and i think his question is interesting.
How have some of you done it? is he floating around in some plane and can see the rest of the group? Is he sitting in a waiting room with about 8 other guys & gals waiting for the Afterlife Nurse to call his name? Hanging out in a wall of undead with Cyric? or is it just empty nothiinnggnneesssss?


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Message 3008 of 6726 Reply

Re: What's it like being DEAD? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 9/21/00 12:35 pm
Very interesting. Could set him up with a little solo adventure in the afterlife of his particular pantheon (to attain some bit of knowledge or clue particular to the adventure his living partymates are presently involved with). Or, you can just kill him and bury him in the woods somewhere. Then, he'll know.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3007 by Demonic_Cultist

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Message 3009 of 6726 Reply

A new setting Calitrojan
9/21/00 3:03 pm
Well I have been endeavoring ot replace my old campaign world for my groups conversion. Well, I have liad out some basics of the world and was hoping for a few interesting ideas from my own personal focus group... you!

Thus far I have a large island occupied by four nations, each worshipping a different god ... law, chaos, good and evil.

I have two terrorist groups formed, religious fanatics that blow up things as radical statements.

There is a holy land that all search for, an island three hundred miles tot he south. And of course beyond some pretty nice details I am looking for some ideas. I am looking ot have religious conflicts, racial side taking, and of course the ver popular inter religious squabble and assassination, coupled with terrorist violence and groups preaching peace and unity. (They are more right than even they know, as I have a fifth group I plan on introducing later who have the key to peace, but instead just plan on dividing and conquering.)

So, any ideas from the peanut gallery>


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Message 3010 of 6726 Reply

Re: A new setting SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 9/21/00 3:44 pm
A land considered by all four sides to be holy? Hmmm...

Perhaps the gods walked there when the world was young.

Or there was a struggle of some sort between avatars there... the evil religion might see it as a site of a great victory, and the good side revere it as the site of the martyrdom of their god's avatar to save them, his/her people.

Or, over the centuries, this place has just attracted holy men and women of all the faiths who worked great wonders there (kinda like Jerusalem).

Or it's just a really magical place of power, some elemental force beyond good/evil/law/chaos which, if harnessed, could assure one faith supremacy (if they can find it, manage it, and hold on to it).

Or I misunderstood your question and you already *know* why the place is holy and I'm just blowing steam. Wouldn't be the first time.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3009 by Calitrojan

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Message 3011 of 6726 Reply

Re: What's it like being DEAD? Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/21/00 3:44 pm
The Planescape setting deals with that somewhat, but exactly how I don't recall at the moment. Actually, no one has ever asked me that before so I have never had to deal with it. I suppose this would be a great way to impose your personal belief system on your players.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3007 by Demonic_Cultist

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Message 3012 of 6726 Reply

Re: A new setting glenromero
(30/M/Honolulu, HI) 9/21/00 3:47 pm
It sounds interesting. I like the idea of the fifth group. Maybe have one of the groups fall into civil war. Not Chaos, that would be predictable. Is there all out war between the groups? If so witch one? If I had all day this could be so much fun. Let me know when you start I would like to hear how the players like it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3009 by Calitrojan

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Message 3013 of 6726 Reply

Re: What's it like being DEAD? madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 9/21/00 4:40 pm
I suppose it would most interesting if the PC in question is a cleric or druid.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3011 by Umbratikus

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Message 3014 of 6726 Reply

Re: What's it like being DEAD? leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 9/21/00 5:05 pm
My response to this sort of thing is usually, 'Quiet, your dead'

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3007 by Demonic_Cultist

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Message 3015 of 6726 Reply

New DM. last_of_the_frost
9/21/00 6:11 pm
I'm a new DM and could use some helpful hints, tips, and/or pointers. I would greatly appreciate anything that you send my way. Thanks Again!


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Message 3016 of 6726 Reply

Re: New DM. orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 9/21/00 8:19 pm
Hmmm,

Not much to go on, my standard advice is:

Don't let the players build super power characters (as long as you don't expect them to fight giants and dragons first off). Don't try to involve them in a world shattering epic first time round, make a simple adventure, the old clich'es work best (especially if your players are new) A treasure map, rescue somebody, stop the orks from killing and looting trade caravans, that sort of thing.

Make the day to day people (NPC's) take notice of the PC's, especially if they are new players. Make them out to be town hero's or something. Let them have a few quick, easy fights before you scare them a bit, just to let everyone get the feel of the game.

Take it like any new thing, slowly at first until you get your feet. Once you get your confidence up then start to push the limits. That should at least stop it from blowing up in your face, so to speak.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3015 by last_of_the_frost

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Message 3017 of 6726 Reply

Re: New DM. prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 9/21/00 8:36 pm
Get the new 3E Dungeon Master's Guide. It is AMAZING for new DMs. It is a GUIDE on how to be a Dungeon Master. Every new DM should get it, even if they don't plan on converting to 3E.

That said. Its ok for experienced DMs, but most of the material you probably know or figured out already. There might be some new insights, so its worth a glance even by old hand DMs. There is also stuff DMs need if they do play on converting to 3E.

Prolix.
Ever wanted to be a co-founder of the BEST D&D club ever? Nows your chance. Just solve a simple puzzle on a little magic Box.
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thirdeditiondndplayersguild
See Message 192 for Complete Details.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3015 by last_of_the_frost

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Message 3018 of 6726 Reply

Re: What's it like being DEAD? wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 9/22/00 5:04 am
In one of the PlaneScape boxed sets, there is a low-level adventure that sends the party into the realm of Hades to retrieve a fallen comrade. Just watching the PCs having to barter with Cerberus... :) I've always felt you should conduct an interview between the character anbd his deity "so, why do you wish to set aside your divine reward and return to life?" And the old Forgotten Realms comic had one character come back as the spirit animating the golem. But these past few years, I've just kinda rules-skimmed through it - you know, just make the Resurrection Survival roll and get on with the game. I think it's more to do with the fact that, having had life-saving heart surgery, this topic is a little too close for comfort. After all, I make every effort to keep the PCs alive.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3011 by Umbratikus

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Message 3019 of 6726 Reply

Re: New DM. wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 9/22/00 5:14 am
1 - DON'T PANIC. You're just getting into this, so don't worry if things foul up the first few times. Not your fault; it happens to all of us.
2 - KEEP IT SIMPLE. You're busy enough trying to get the hang of DMing, there's no need to build a complex scenario, or a whole world. It's generic, but it works: start with a small village or other homebase for the characters, with rumours of potential adventure sites in the nearby wilds. If you can, get your hands on Return To The Keep On The Borderlands and run that.
3 - KEEP AT IT. This is the secret to becoming a great DM. Perseverance pays.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3015 by last_of_the_frost

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Message 3020 of 6726 Reply

Re: A new setting Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/22/00 8:42 am
Calitrojan,

What is the dominant culture of the island? Is it Med. European? Sounds almost Middle Eastern to me : )

I propose a Fifth god, whose worship transcends the political borders. Perhaps they are forced to meet in secret in some of the countries. Perhaps it is a peace loving god who tries to bring peace throughout the island. Better yet, the Druids. This group, with it's Neutral focus, strives to maintain the balance that the four kingdoms constantly upset. The druids in this case might have political clout in some of the countries, and have different agendas in each.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3009 by Calitrojan

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Message 3021 of 6726 Reply

Re: A new setting CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 9/22/00 9:08 am
OOOOH I like this!

I was going to suggest the introduction of a fifth column. It could be a religious group, a council of mages, or perhaps a petty tyrant bent on world domination ("Gee Brain, what are we going to do tonight?"). That leave a 6 outset possiblilities, either they are wards/supporters of the 4 established kingdoms, members/supports of the mystery 5th coup, or outsiders bumbling into something of which they have no clue.

CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3020 by Umbratikus

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Message 3022 of 6726 Reply

Re: New DM. CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 9/22/00 9:18 am
Having DM/GM'd several systems, and having no idea how many years and systems you have under your belt as a player, I will bend your ear with some basic advice.

1. Start small. Use a small world setting, and if your system of choice has basic rules use them. Consider starting with only one or two races to keep adjustments easy. DMing is like juggling. It is a lot easier to start with 2-3 balls than to leap in using flaming chainsaws.

2. Decide what your house rules will be, not everything that is inscribed in the manual is appropriate for every world scenario. And establish these house rules with the players before play, to head off any arguments.

3. BE CONSISTENT! Nothing angers players more than a DM/GM who changes rules and stilts things in his favor just for the sadistic pleasure of knocking off a few good characters.

CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3015 by last_of_the_frost

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Message 3023 of 6726 Reply

Re: New DM. Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/22/00 9:22 am
Frosty,

Looks like you have gotten some good advice already. Take it slow. Keep it small and simple.

I assume you are playing 3rd Edition?

Wylie's idea was a good one. Start with a pre-packaged adventure. Return to Keep on the Borderlands is a good module geared toward newbie DM's. If you are playing 3rd Edition, you might want to start with The Sunless Citadel. I haven't seen it, but since it is the first 3rd Edition adventure module (and is for 1st level characters), it would eliminate any confusion caused by trying to convert 2nd ed. stuff. Dungeon Magazine might have some good adventures in it too. I understand it is exclusively 3rd ed. as of issue 82. Seeing these adventures will give you more of a feel for how adventures are designed. Whatever you use, make sure you know the adventure backward and forward.

Here are some other pointers:
--Know the rules. Nothing slows the game down more than having to look up the rule on how to do something every five minutes or so.
--Don't give the player characters too much magic too fast.
--If you are designing your own game world, don't try to do too much. Start small, with a home base town and the surrounding countryside. The entire Kingdom at most. If you are a real newbie, start off with a pre-packaged world. If, again, you are playing 3rd Ed., pick up the Greyhawk Gazeteer and use the World of Greyhawk for your campaign world.

I could go on and on, but I don't want to complicate things for you. Keep it simple. Like was said earlier, mistakes will be made. You will get better as you go along. Above all, don't get discouraged. If everyone is having fun you are doing something right. After all, that is the whole point, right?

Good Gaming,
Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3015 by last_of_the_frost

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Message 3024 of 6726 Reply

Re: New DM. Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/22/00 9:26 am
Oh, one more idea.

Read the Dungeoncraft column in Dragon Magazine. It is chock full of good advice for new DMs. You can read the archive at the website. Start with the first one and read all the way through. Click on the link below.

http://www.wizards.com/dragon/article.asp?dungeoncraft,3

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3023 by Umbratikus

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Message 3025 of 6726 Reply

I play 2nd ed. last_of_the_frost
9/22/00 9:30 am
All of this good advice is pouring in, but some for the wrong edition! I started playing about 1 1/2 years ago, in 2nd edition, not 3rd. Oh well. Just a little misunderstanding, Thats all.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3023 by Umbratikus

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Message 3026 of 6726 Reply

Re: A new setting Calitrojan
9/22/00 10:30 am
You know I hadn't really thought about why the holy land is holy to the four religions, I did not plan on bringing it in until late in the campaign... but those are some nice ideas.

The cultural setting is partially western european with one of the groups acting in a middle eastern fundamentalist pattern (the worshippers of the law god).

Interesting to have the druids as a moderate group between the four. I have been struggling with the druid class for the last few days, I usually do not include it in my last campaign, but I think that in this one I will... I am glad to have the thought of yours about them acting as moderators.

The fifth group worships a core god... the god the other four were spawned fromk though they have forgotten and their worshippers never had a clue. The fifth group is operating clandestinely on the island in the four nations, and I will bring them in later as some kind of invasion... whether physical or religous I do not know... I was kinda thinking like the Spanish Conquistadors, conquering phsyically alongside their missionaries who convert to conquer spiritually.

Anyhow, I had thought of the civil war idea and I have a couple of selections (not the chaos group --- surprisingly the most stable of the four). The good group is ruled by a family of priests, gaining the hereditary title... they have been corrupted perhaps and a new family wishes to take power? The law society I have decided that a lawful evil vampire secretly controls the country through illusion and an iron fist... and the evil society, well I thought I would be cliche with that, an evil dictator the other nobles plan on overthrowing but are too frightened of to actually do anything.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3021 by CZE_026

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Message 3027 of 6726 Reply

Re: New DM. glenromero
(30/M/Honolulu, HI) 9/22/00 1:45 pm
Some were between 2 and 3 is remember to have fun. People have more fun if you're having fun. I played twice in this one champaign were the DM didn't enjoy DMing and it was no fun. So relax sit back and enjoy the game.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3019 by wylie_665

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Message 3028 of 6726 Reply

Artifact curse needed SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 9/22/00 3:00 pm
The Background:
I'm trying to create a minor relic for my campaign. It's an elven sword whose major ability is to "detect threat to elvenkind." Kind of broad, I know, and I'm working on refining it. And yes, it's subjective, so the "threat" is a threat as would have been defined by the elven gods (D&D standard Seldarine set), Corellon Larthian in particular.

I'm also still working on its history, but I'm thinking it was created at about the Time of Sundering (the Descent of the Drow in my world) to identify those elves harboring evil in their hearts.

Rot has set in again, this time with Vhaeraun using the elves' hate and fear of the local humans to gain support for his "Elves Uber Alles" platform. The high elven clerics have sent the PCs out to find the lost sword, etc etc.

The Question:
What's a good curse for a chaotic good relic? So far, I'll I've come up with is:

1) A compulsion to aid elves overtakes the wielder (not a very terrible curse, IMHO, and even one of the Bladesinger's standard disadvantages)

2) If the wielder is not a Chosen One of some sort, the blade is too much for him/her and soon *everything* gets perceived as a threat to elvenkind. This could potentially make the sword dangerous to innocent elves, which wouldn't go along the lines of the creator's thoughts at all.

Any other ideas? The sample artifacts I've seen so far are all either evil or some extreme of law or chaos... I haven't found a single "good artifact" curse to compare to.


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Message 3029 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 9/22/00 3:29 pm
I forget if it was in this club or adanddplayers, but someone had a great idea. Make the wielder (the PC) have to come up with a little two-line limerick (pertinent to the particular situation) to activate the artifact's powers.

"An umber hulk to make elf snacks?
Help me, sword, in my attacks."

Hey, I never said I was a poet. But you get the idea. Could make for fun role-playing, too.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3028 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3030 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 9/22/00 4:01 pm
How about these:

The Sword causes fear and loathing in any Dwarf that sees it or feels its power. Those Dwarves will desire to destroy the Sword and thus rid the land of its foul abomination. As a side effect, when it is unsheathed in front of a Dwarf, the Sword pretty much ALWAYS gets hostile intent from them. A terrible vicious circle.

This would play off the Tolkinistic emnity between Elves and Dwarves, perhaps even being responsible for it. Alternatively, you can use a different race(s) or even all non-Elves as being negatively affected by the Sword.

Another possibility is you could have the Sword adversely affect Lawful creatures in some way. Powerful Lawful creatures or NPCs might have a desire to see the Sword destroyed. Perhaps the mere sight if the seemingly random and twisted engravings on the blade makes Lawful creatures uncomfortable/confused/dazed/enraged. Lawful creatures in any melee combat on BOTH sides get minuses to hit and morale due to this. This would be a more minor curse, but you can add other bad effects to Lawful creatures.


Prolix
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thirdeditiondndplayersguild
Check out message 192. Solve the puzzle, win the prize.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3028 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3031 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed glenromero
(30/M/Honolulu, HI) 9/22/00 4:06 pm
Thunder..thunder.. thundercats hoooooo

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3029 by madteuton

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Message 3032 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 9/22/00 4:09 pm
YYYESSS!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3031 by glenromero

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Message 3033 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed Ima_Doppleganger
9/23/00 12:39 am
Unless your an Elvin warder of some type, you develop some type of Verbal Abusive Syndrome (Tourette's ?) towards Dwarvenkind. The longer you posses the sword the more overpowering the curse becomes, until you just blurt out insults towards all Dwarves no matter the situation.
Ima

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3028 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3034 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 9/23/00 10:13 am
every time the artifact is used the user slowly transforms into a dwarf once the transformation is complete anytime user encounters any other dwarf there is a simple charisma roll if the user rolls over his new dwarf charisma then the other dwarf will attack the user. if your going to make cursed items you might as well let them know the price to pay

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3033 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3035 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 9/23/00 10:23 am
one must remember that elves being what they are,they feel they are above all others deep in their hearts, a simple curse is if the user is not the chosen one then everytime it is used the user must perform one task set by the deity who granted the power to the relic in the first place in this way the DM gets to set what the task should be, thus protecting the delicate balance needed in your world untill you become more fluent in the use of relics and cursed items of power. a simple idea is the user must map out a given areas entrances to the drows elves underworld.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3028 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3036 of 6726 Reply

Re: Quest spells tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 9/23/00 10:39 am
if the players are being difficult about repayment to a high level cleric and they dont want to retrieve a item lay the quest spell in the form of sounding like a curse such as"by that i hold dear i quest thee to retrieve _________ and if thou shant then no healing shall thy have" basic meaning is that no form of healing natural or otherwise will work whatsoever period. if they approach other clerics for healing it doesnt work thereby letting that cleric know that the party has done something very wrong and will inform them that maybe they might want to do whatever their suppose to be doing ' as long as they are performing the task of the quest they can heal if they step off that path they will instantly return to the hit points they had in this way players learn that quest spells and promises to clerics should always be honored

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3002 by orgruff

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Message 3037 of 6726 Reply

Help cinnabar_ratwing2000
9/23/00 12:25 pm
I am trying to start a game for my group, but I have a large problem. I just relized that I need to finish up my set of knightly orders. I could really use some input on finishing these groups. Thus far I have the knight orders set up into four diffrent groups called locks. Each group contains fifty knights, and each lock uses an element to their advantage. The Earth lock wears dark black armour and always have green barding for there horses. They can utilize a speacial set of spells I developed for them that affect only earth. However they need a leader, and a history. The fire lock wears bright silver armour and use fire spells I gave them, they need a history and a leader as well. The water lock wears gray armour and have blue horse barding. They need a history and leader character as well. The final lock is the wind knights. I dont have a history, leader or spells for them. Also each one needs a certain god that corresponds to the elements they use. But I want to create gods for them. This is a large project, and I need help! Any input is very much welcomed.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3036 by tryp_t

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Message 3038 of 6726 Reply

Re: Help Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 9/23/00 10:58 pm
hmmmmmm... how long have these orders been active? are they well-established or relatively new? that would have a big effect on their histories. were they all started at about the same time, or did one spring up first and the others in response to balance things? if they are new orders, the current leaders might be the founders, or if the orders are old, that is probably not the case.
what is the predominant race for each of thses orders? are they restricive in any way about their members? can any race join? any class?

one of the best ways to define and create any part of your campaign is to ask yourself these sorts of questions, the kind a total outsider would ask. after all, unless the PCs are a part of the group, these would be the sorts of questions they would ask, and the sort of information they would find out first.

as for spell abilities, what sort of abilities do the current orders have? by looking at what they have, you can choose apropriate spells for the wind order. if nothing is obviously apropriate, i'm sure there will be plenty of suggestions from such a large forum.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3037 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3039 of 6726 Reply

Re: I play 2nd ed. wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 9/24/00 6:31 am
Nothing wrong with 2nd Edition - I may play in a 3E game, but when I DM again it'll likely be 2nd Ed. I actually started way back in the days of the Basic/Expert sets, and have also run 1st Ed, so here's another tip: converting between editions is not as hard as it might seem. Most of the adventures I've run these past few years have been 1st Ed or Basic/Expert. Also, House Rules: these are a great way to stamp your authority on the campaign, but be prepared to defend your judgements - some players like nothing less than rules-lawyering away at the DM, and House Rules are seen as an easy target. And don't let the players bully you into adding a new rule, either; I've cut down my 30+ pages of house rules to the 9 pages I actually want to use.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3025 by last_of_the_frost

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Re: Join a pathetic club - FOUNDER TIPS pirates_life_for_me
(37/M/Ann Arbor, MI) 9/24/00 10:11 am
RE SCA Bard's group size comment.

Smaller groups are better. At the moment I am dm'ing for six and that is a stretch. 4 is optimum.... If you need more help, hirelings and NPC's.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3000 by SCA_Bard

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Re: Join a pathetic club - FOUNDER TIPS leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 9/24/00 10:57 am
Depends on the DM I reckon.. I think 6 is perfect..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3040 by pirates_life_for_me

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Re: Help cinnabar_ratwing2000
9/24/00 5:20 pm
First of all these orders are about three hundred years old. The founder is dead. One man created them all. He made the earth first, so they are respected most by all. Every knight is a human. The only people allowed to be a part of it are the sons of the knights themselves. For one exception. Currently the leader of each seperate order reports to a single woman that leads them all. The spells that have been given to each order are hombrewed manipulation spells. This has made it nearly impossible to come up with more then a handful of spells for the knights following the wind. Where the other three orders have a vast book, now, I am proud to say, each order has fifty three spells to utilize. At the moment the wind Lock only has eight.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3038 by Shabooah

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Re: Help leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 9/24/00 5:25 pm
What eight do you have so we don't use them..?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3042 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Re: Help pfclink
(26/M/Muskogee) 9/24/00 5:48 pm
Have you read Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series? He uses the elements for magic, It would give you some good ideas. In one book he used air bands that were thinner than a razor but harder than steel. The purpose was to have a character run though a fog and into three of these bands places at waist, chest, and neck levels. Cool spell.
Check em out at the library, their worth it....

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3037 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Re: Help Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/25/00 8:57 am
Have you looked at the Elemental Mage in the Tome of Magic? It might help you with spell ideas.

Each knightly order could draw it's power from the respective elemental planes. The leader of each lock could be an elemental lord of some kind. Perhaps the genasi (a human with elemental genes in there somewhere) from the Planescape setting (see the Complete Planewalker's Handbook).

You could, if you were so inclined, have four lesser locks that draw from the paraelemntal planes of ice, magma, ooze, and crystal. The Crystal Knights has a nice ring to it.

The leader of the Wind Knights could secretly be a gold dragon in human form, and the higher ranking knights of this lock could ride pegasi, or hippogriffs.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3042 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3046 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/25/00 9:39 am
The curse could be conditional. If the bearer is not an elf, he will slowly be transformed into one. This change will be permanent. If he gets rid of the sword before the full transformation, he will be stuck in half-elf mode. He could return to his normal race only by use of a wish. This could be especially interesting if the bearer is not human. Can you see a dwarf transforming into an elf? The role playing here would be priceless. First his ears start to get pointy, then he starts losing his facial hair, then one morning he can no longer fit into his armor, etc... Then suppose he rids himself of the sword half way. Can you imagine a half-elf/half dwarf?

Likewise, if the bearer is not CG, then he gradually will become CG. This could be disastrous for a paladin. Whereas a kindly DM might allow the character to maintain his paladinhood as his race changed, but the alignment thing would be out of the question.

Like many cursed items, efforts to rid oneself of the sword could be difficult. The old, throw/give the sword away and wake up with it the next morning kinda deal.

And finally, the sword has the ability to sense when any great "threat to elvenkind" is occurring and thereby QUESTS (as per another discussion thread in this forum) the character to go and help eradicate that threat. The sword passes onto the wielder the knowledge of where (geographically) he must go and the general nature of the threat. The sword may also grant the wielder the ability to quest others to join him in his quest (although they may get a saving throw), thereby getting the rest of the party involved, or anyone else who might be beneficial to the quest.

Hey, this sounds pretty cool. I might just use this in MY campaign : )

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3028 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3047 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 9/25/00 10:31 am
I heard of a nasty sword which was actually a defender. As long as there were any attacking forces the sword would force the wielder to fight against them to defend the town.

The power of the sword was so great that it was said that the sord wielded the bearer. The soer would luge from foe to foe, sometimes hauling a very weary wileder in toe to the next battle.

There was even a rumor that 1 wielder, was able to defeat about 100 attackers with this sword, but died immediately after the last enemy fell.

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3046 by Umbratikus

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Re: Help Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 9/25/00 5:06 pm
>>You could, if you were so inclined, have four lesser locks that draw from the paraelemntal planes of ice, magma, ooze, and crystal. The Crystal Knights has a nice ring to it.<<

Crystal Knights sound cool, Ice Knights and Magma Nights sound badass, but i feel sorry for the poor Ooze Knights.. what an embarrassing name.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3045 by Umbratikus

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Message 3049 of 6726 Reply

Destroy The Books! messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 9/25/00 7:57 pm
In my rescent campaign my PC's are carring books by which this evil underground religion wants a hold of. And I was wonder do you guys have any interesting indeas on how these books can be destroyed. Maybe they need to be thrown into an unstable volcano, or maybe they need to be hit by a fireball casted by a lich, or maybe a Ranger needs to commit an evil deed while carring them to be destroyed. Do yall have any interesting ideas? I need the ideas to be challanging so the PC's will be occupied for a few gamming sessions.


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Re: Destroy The Books! pfclink
(26/M/Muskogee) 9/25/00 9:19 pm
Do the PCs want to destroy the books?

How about being consumed by a _____ that is then eaten by a _____ who is then turned to stone by a _____. Then have a mage cast knock to destroy the stone _______.

Hope this helps :-)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Re: Destroy The Books! glenromero
(30/M/Honolulu, HI) 9/25/00 11:55 pm
They need to be destroyed by a cleric from a rival religion. Not just any prest but the head prest and he/she (for you Ima) has disappeared. That should cover a few adventures.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Re: Destroy The Books! Scott_Gigot
9/26/00 3:32 am
A while back in a campaign I was playing in, our characters ran across half of a book that contained the secrets to become a lich. We were able to take it from something that forgot to get the SECOND half befor starting the ritual :-). We decided to destroy it rather than take it back to the shady dude who was paying us to find it--we thought this was a book that would allow creation of healing potions, etc., based on some "perfect health" comment. I guess "perfect" is subjective these days.

Anyway, we tried to burn it with no luck, couldn't rip out the pages, couldn't deface the pages, etc. We weren't near any volcanoes or major crevices in the earth, but the next nearest thing was a very deep ocean--with a thick ice layer. However, on our way we recieved a suggestion to bring this to a commonly-regarded "good" king with the world's largest library. So far, this hasn't blown up in our face...yet.

Having to bring the books to an Important Somebody isn't a bad idea. There's plenty of opportunity to have to protect the books on the journey (if the PC's even know who to bring them to), and there's the possibility that they pervert the Somebody entrusted with their care. And THEN the PC's can have to destroy them in a volcano, with >deity of choice<'s hammer, universal solvent, sphere of annihilation, fire from the sun, etc.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Re: Destroy The Books! wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 9/26/00 4:47 am
The books must be read by a pure soul - a Paladin or the stereotypical virgin maid - who self-sacrificially absorbs the magical energy of the books, becoming Evil, but the words lift from the page as they are read and so the books are blank and useless. The evil cult of your game could try to interrupt this, and so the books could end up half-read and the pure soul somewhat schizophrenic... or they might actually want this to happen, and the books are just a lure to trick the heroes into doing their vile bidding.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3051 by glenromero

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Alternate History wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 9/26/00 5:03 am
I've got this idea for a new world... actually, its a composite of several old campaigns of mine - some of the bits and pieces from each seem to fit better with each other than their original worlds.

The Elves were not Nature lovers - they mastered genetics and life energy, and bred/created many new creatures. Some of these escaped (of course) and forced normal animals out of competition - so, prehistoric mammals and dinosaurs are the norm (but keep some domestic animals). Also, the Elves created the "New" or Slave Races. In order to do so, they needed a Template race that was weak, fertile and rapid to mature - they named their creation HUMAN. Thus, Elves are feared and hated as cruel overlords, and Half-Elves are distrusted as Changelings and spies. The PC races include Fauns, Maern (an aquatic race, basically blue/green-haired water-breathing humans), Sprites, Valkyries and maybe something like an ogre but closer to the Norse Troll myths. The Elves and Dwarves have withdrawn from the world, after a millenia-long war which shattered the world (and is thus the main theme/plot hook of the campaign). The main city of the campaign will be the only place were tolerance and a desire to do Good exist - everyone else is too busy trying to survive in a bleak, hostile wasteland.

Comments and suggestions?


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Re: Destroy The Books! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/26/00 7:56 am
You could give the books to a 1 year old baby.

At least that is how a lot of my books got destroyed.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Re: Alternate History Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/26/00 8:14 am
Sounds like a pretty interesting game world. Since many "normal" animals are non-existant, people could use giant lizards as domesticated mounts, sort of like the Sand Troopers in Star Wars. Mammoths and Mastodons may also be used as war mounts, similar to war elephants. They could use some dinosaurs as beasts of burden. Keeping with the dinosour theme, Saurials, or at least troglodytes and lizard men could be major players in this apocalyptic world, and dragons would still have their place.

PC races are cool. I assume they were byproducts of elven genetic experiments. You could throw in Mongrelmen, from the MM. These could be the descendents of elven genetic experiments gone awry. A long time ago in Dragon Magazine (I'm talking double-digits) there was an article on winged men, with stats that were very balanced and playable (albeit 1st ed.). Might be good material for your Valkyrie race. Formorian giants might be common as well, since they seem to be genetic messes to begin with. Perhaps they were the result of elven attempts to create a "super-slave" with superior strength, but they just couldn't get them right.

Anyway, just a few ideas.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3054 by wylie_665

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Message 3057 of 6726 Reply

chat herbieman2001
9/26/00 4:45 pm
people get me a game now


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Re: Artifact curse needed prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 9/26/00 4:51 pm
That was Townsaver from Saberhagan's Books of Swords. I highly recommend the first 3 books. The Lost Swords books weren't as good.

Prolix
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thirdeditiondndplayersguild

>>>I heard of a nasty sword which was actually a defender. As long as there were any attacking forces the sword would force the wielder to fight against them to defend the town.

The power of the sword was so great that it was said that the sord wielded the bearer. The soer would luge from foe to foe, sometimes hauling a very weary wileder in toe to the next battle.

There was even a rumor that 1 wielder, was able to defeat about 100 attackers with this sword, but died immediately after the last enemy fell.

Matt <<<

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3047 by mattbcieri

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Message 3059 of 6726 Reply

Re: chat knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 9/26/00 5:35 pm
check the past posts, there should be a few post for games

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3057 by herbieman2001

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Re: Destroy The Books! Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 9/26/00 7:52 pm
how many books are there? if you want to be especially mean, you could make each of the books with it's own unique method of destruction. to be meaner still, you could make one of the books easily destructable by mundane means, and each one after that hard to destroy. to be meaner still, more books could be found as the campaign progresses, each with it's own oddball elimination procedure.

as for individual destruction methods, how about some of the following:

one book must be destroyed by throwing it into a fire kindled with troll belly-button lint.

another book must be taken to another plane of your choice where the unique being ______ is the only creature with the proper knowledge to destroy it.

another book must be buried in sacred ground and left undisturbed for three months. after this time, it may be dug up and ripped apart normally.

one book is immune to anything except a certain alchemical formula which must be thouroughly researched, and is made from several rare, dangerous to handle, or hard to procure substances. (roots from a certain forrest, parts of animals they've never even heard of) this should involve a lot of traveling, and a lot of "are you crazy?" looks from reluctant alchemists.. after all, this stuff could go boom if something goes wrong(think meth lab).

if inspiration fails, you could simply wait until the PCs do increasingly strange and dangerous things to try to destroy the books, until something makes you laugh hard enough, then rule that one of them is now irreprable.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Re: Destroy The Books! Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 9/26/00 7:59 pm
>>if inspiration fails, you could simply wait until the PCs do increasingly strange and dangerous things to try to destroy the books, until something makes you laugh hard enough, then rule that one of them is now irreprable<<

i meant one of the books of course.. although that's not to say that a PC couldn't be rendered irreperable in the process.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3060 by Shabooah

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Message 3062 of 6726 Reply

Re: Destroy The Books! orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 9/27/00 2:36 am
Lots to go on so far, here is a new twist.

I once had a bunch of basicly good PC's have to go and get advice from the 'Master of the Mythal library' who as it turned out, was a lich, way beyond the capabilities of the PC's to best in combat, they had a furious time roleplaying that scenario and had to do something which seemed innocent enough before he told them how to destroy the dagger (which had been prophesised to start a war). They later found out that they started a plague, killing hundreds, which started a panic which started a war, killing hundreds again.

I though it turned out rather well.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Re: Destroy The Books! wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 9/27/00 5:04 am
well thats the best outcome i could hope for

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3062 by orgruff

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Message 3064 of 6726 Reply

Re: Artifact curse needed wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 9/27/00 5:26 am
<>
i rember they were rhymeing staves

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3029 by madteuton

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Message 3065 of 6726 Reply

Re: Alternate History wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 9/27/00 5:31 am
Thanks! I'd forgotten all about the Fomorian giants... maybe they were a rival Elder Race who opposed the Elves and got struck down by a magical version of biological warfare. And I've been looking for a way to work lizardmen and troglodytes into my games - I've liked 'em since I first picked up the D&D Basic Set, but the players have only seen them as yet more blade-fodder; perhaps now I can change their minds... If humans don't like being reminded of their origins, mongrelmen probably wouldn't last long... but another idea I had was that "tainted blood" sometimes shows up - perhaps a random table similar to those for Tieflings? I've also been thinking: instead of having dwarves in the world, how about the War being caused by rival Elven Noble Houses? Each of the major Houses could have created a separate creature or race... So far as Dragons go, I was thinking about having them Sleeping, after the Elves overthrew the Saurian race who raised city-states with Dragons as sort-of God-kings - but I'm not sure how many Elder Races I want, or how much Ancient History I want to write up. Now, while Paladins would only come from the main city of the campaign, I'm not sure whether to allow Elves as PCs (perhaps they are political exiles from a decadant culture that has largely withdrawn from the world), and/or have a few despotic Elven city-states remain as an ongoing threat.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3056 by Umbratikus

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Re: Destroy The Books! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/27/00 8:21 am
Orgruff,
You are way too cruel : )

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3062 by orgruff

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Message 3067 of 6726 Reply

Re: Alternate History Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/27/00 8:30 am
You could make lizard men classed races. The party wouldn't think of them as sword fodder when the 2nd level PC party comes across 2 or 3 7th level lizard man fighters who are specialized in their weapons. You could even offer them as a PC race. The stats in the Humanoid Handbook are decent for playing a lizard man PC.

I like the rival elven Noble House idea. PC elves could be aquatic elves, or sylvan elves, who simply weren't involved in the conflict. Even drow, perhaps.

You might also want to take a look at Grimlocks, from the 1st edition Fiend Folio (I think they were revamped in one of the MC annuals) as a race of humans that were driven underground.

Also like the tainted blood idea. Psionics could come into play here as well.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3065 by wylie_665

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Message 3068 of 6726 Reply

greetings from another newbie bigfatdumbguy_2000
(25/M/li, ny) 9/27/00 11:17 am
anyone from the long island area that wants to chat, please reply.

thanks,
bfdg


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Message 3069 of 6726 Reply

Re: Destroy The Books! tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 9/27/00 12:12 pm
destruction of great tomes of power can be a hazzardous and often mortally wounding mission if the players are near retirement age this might not be a bad thing then the purpose is to make them or one a lesser demi and start a whole new campaign otherwise! ,players will or should have to perform a series of tasks just to reach the direct opposite plane of alignment than those of the tomes and have the master of that plane tell them what they must do to break the tome down into parts remember artifacts and relics are never truly destroyed only cast to be found by ever questing mortals to keep the deities alive.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3070 of 6726 Reply

Characterisation sneakabout2
9/28/00 2:04 am
I am a relatively new DM and I am having problems trying to get my players to characterise properly...any tips?


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Re: Alternate History wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 9/28/00 6:21 am
Yep, always wanted Lizard Men as a PC race, but the players seem to think you have to either eat other PCs or generally act dumb to play 'em "right" - so maybe I should make them slightly superior to humans in some way? Perhaps all druids and rangers (necessary classes for surviving in a hostile wasteland) are trained by lizard men?

Grimlocks are another favourite of mine.

As for elves, I'd like to have just the one type - too many subraces spoil the brew. Perhaps there were dwarves, but they were exterminated by the elves - or maybe a degenerate dwarven type?

I've been looking for a way to work Psionics back into my games. But this is beginning to sound a bit like Dark Sun.

I'm getting a hazy mental image of a marshy forest, a bit like Arborea in the Flash Gordon movie. Maybe the escaped genetic experiments include rampant plant life. Plenty of opportunity for using plant-like creatures here.

One old idea of mine (about 8 years ago) was for a city-state of Grey Elves to be sort-of atheists - they believed the Seldarine abandoned them, not the other way around. One player even called a halt to the game and thanked me in front of the entire group for being so original. :) Thus, what if there are no gods? While Druidic spells would derive from Nature, Clerical spells would have to come from some other source. Maybe the collective beliefof all those in the Free City that there is a Better Hope For Tomorrow?

Here's an introductory adventure idea, ripped off from a short story I once read: a hideously ugly troll/fomorian/whatever walks into the party's home village, and demands a virgin sacrifice. So the villagers grab the nearest young girl (a PC's sister) and tie her to a stake on the edge of town. The trolls are trying to breed some stability back into their genetic makeup... and this one's a female, so makes a grab for a male PC (a different one than whose sister is tied up).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3067 by Umbratikus

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Message 3072 of 6726 Reply

Re: Alternate History Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/28/00 9:13 am
Have you seen the treatment TSR gave lizard men in the Spelljammer setting? They are far superior and more civilized than their "groundling" brethren. You could make them, not only a very intelligent race, but a noble one as well.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3071 by wylie_665

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Message 3073 of 6726 Reply

Re: Alternate History madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 9/28/00 9:14 am
Side note about PC lizardmen:

I don't know what edition you are playing but the 3e Monster Manual gives the PC statistics for lizardmen and they are tempting. First level lizardmen start without a class (they are simply 1hd monsters with stats, skills, feats and proficiencies provided by the MM). At second level they multiclass into whatever they want. A lizardman's preferred class is druid (none of the PHB races prefer druid!). Lizardmen do get a serious penalty to their INT so maybe playing them dumb is the way to go.

Just thought you would like to know.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3071 by wylie_665

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Message 3074 of 6726 Reply

Re: Characterisation madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 9/28/00 9:33 am
Three suggestions:

1)NPCs: Your best roleplaying tool is your own cast of extras. Players will usually play up to whatever level you set. Develop a couple of good characters and have them accompany the PCs. Make sure the players can tell your NPCs apart by your voice and demeanor without you saying, "And then Grog, the barbarian, says..." Those NPCs should engage the PCs in interesting conversation. Then try to add a little of that flair to all your background characters.

2)Pet Players: Kerry has been playing various RPGs with me for years and he's a great player. When things are sluggish and nobody is in character, he helps me get people up to speed. His character and an NPC or two get in some crazy discussion that the other players simply cannot pass up. If they are not in character we ignore them except to remind them that this is a roleplaying session. If you do not have a good active roleplayer in the group then consort with someone to be your helping hand and play a few solos with him/her as a sort of "training session". Just be careful not to favor that player during the game.

3)XP: One of the best tools I have found for encouraging good roleplaying is the RP experience award. It goes like this. Decide on the point amount for two seperate XP awards. The lower of the two should be just a few points (25-50 for starting characters, raising slightly as levels progress). The higher should be close to double the lower. The DM decides whether each player gets the lower of the two awards, based on whether that player was in character enough. Roleplay requirements can be as strict or as loose as you like as long as it is the same for all players. The higher of the two awards is given to one player (only) in place of his regular RP experience. This lucky player should be chosen by group vote.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3070 by sneakabout2

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Message 3075 of 6726 Reply

Re: Characterisation Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/28/00 9:35 am
What do you mean by "Characterise?" Do you mean that they don't assume the role of their characters? That they just play thier characters like a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper? I'm afraid this is a common problem.

Why do you think they aren't doing it? Because they feel foolish? Because they don't know how? The only real thing you can do is lead by examples with your NPCs. Play them to the hilt.

One thing we did a long time ago, when my group was experiencing a similar problem, was to make the rule that anything the player says, the character says in the game, unless the player was obviously talking to the DM regarding game at hand. This led to some humorous situations, like when one guy started talking about ordering a pizza, and the other players started questioning him like "Prithee enlighten us, Bjorn, what is this "peetza" of which you speak?" Believe me, the characters were highly pissed when one player started talking about this girl he liked when the party thief was trying to sneak up on the drow priestess for a backstab, effectively spoiling the characters' element of suprise.

On another extreme, I ran an adventure about (egad!) 10 years ago, called the Chapel of Silence. One of the PCs touched an artifact that magically struck all PCs dumb for the entire time they were in the chapel. From this point on, they could not speak, unless getting clarifications from the DM. Those that could read and write could pass notes to each other, the others had to communicate through charades, drawing pictures or some other non verbal, non written communication method. This was jolly good fun, and it forced the players to focus on the game and see things through their character's eyes.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3070 by sneakabout2

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Re: Characterisation Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/28/00 9:46 am
I've done the Role Playing xp award as well, also by group vote, and this does work well. We did it at the end of each playing session, not just at the end of an adventure. That way each day of game play, someone was vying for that award.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3074 by madpoet418

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Message 3077 of 6726 Reply

Re: A new setting madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 9/28/00 9:51 am
I know this reply is late but I couldn't resist adding my two cents.

Each of the religions might be played as "good" in its own way. Chaos worshippers are truly free, citizens of Good are kindly and generous, and the followers of Law feel safe in their system of rigid government even if the leader is a tyrranical vampire. Even the evil dictator would be looked up to by some: keeping control of the masses with fear but buying the loyalty of his associates with gifts of land, wealth, and power. This would be furthered by allowing (ie encouraging) characters from all four of the faiths.

This leaves two great options for plot development when you introduce the fifth group. The characters might be rebels who find that they work well together despite cultural differences. They would see the middle group as the answer to ending all the needless warring and ally with them, working to unite the nations or staging four cloak and dagger coups to get sympathetic clerics/vampires/dictators on the thrones.

Or the characters, even though they have a personal connection, might value the differences of their cultures and want to preserve boundries in the name of a common nationalism. This would turn the middle group into the "great devil of unification". All four of the nations would momentarily set aside their differences in order to fight the fifth group and preserve their separateness.

I once ran a religion based campaign with just two religions and had a great time playing with loyalties. Each faith had it's own good points and corruption. In one adventure, the monotheistic church would seem like the villans. In the next, they would help the characters in some round about way and the polytheistic faith would act villainous. Eventually the PCs decided to cut the corruption from both sides and often managed to play the warring faiths against one another to further this goal.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3026 by Calitrojan

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Message 3078 of 6726 Reply

Thanks sneakabout2
9/28/00 1:59 pm
Thanks for the tips - I will use all of them except for the vote awards one as I only have 2 permenant players in my group. On another subject, I think I have made a campaign world which is actually unique... It is based on the assumption that you actually travel to another dimension when you dream. The entire world was created by some really omnipotent being who decided to take a nap after creating all the campaign worlds and his dream formed a flat world within which people don't dream and dreamers sometimes appear with terrible powers. It is compatible with the current myths etc. about ALL of the TSR campaign worlds but is actually a terrible place to live as you can get wiped out in an instant by a goblin having a bad dream if you step in the wrong place (Nyahahahahahah!) and is appropriate for Monty Hauls (hehehe) The one way of getting there is to be trapped there by a secret order of evil monks or by being sucked into a vortex. Only one way out. (Nyahahahah!!) Any comments?


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Message 3079 of 6726 Reply

Re: Destroy The Books! orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 9/28/00 6:19 pm
Thank you very much.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3066 by Umbratikus

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Message 3080 of 6726 Reply

A dreamworld comment. madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 9/28/00 10:41 pm
Next time you are at the gaming store, check out the Dreamlands suppliment to the Call of Cthulu game. Call of Cthulu is an entirely different genre from D&D but you may find some interesting plot ideas there, like the two demi-god monks that guard the staircase of 99 steps to deeper slumber.

The Dreamlands is based on HP Lovecraft's series of dream-world stories about the land of Nod. Titles include "The Quest for Unknown Kadeth" and "The Silver Key" among others. Most of them are available in the compilation "Nightmares and Dreamscapes" which would also provide an excellent source of inspiration.

One of my favorite details about Nod is that time passes differently there. A character might return from a week long adventure only to find that he/she has slept for a few hours. Time to roll over, go back to sleep, and start the next adventure.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3078 by sneakabout2

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Message 3081 of 6726 Reply

Well met fellow DMs! Cheshire_Cat_X
9/29/00 3:00 am
Hello everyone! I'm new to the club, and thought I would post a message to everyone already in the Guild.
I have been playing D&D for 10 years now, starting with Basic and playing through each incarnation so far. I have been DMing a small group of players for 6 years, and am only now becoming confident of my ability to weave a good, solid storyline, and my techinque. But there is always room for improvement.
I would like to pose this question to everyone...how do you all like 3rd Edition?
I hope I enjoy the Guild as much as I think I will. I hope to hear from everyone soon!


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Message 3082 of 6726 Reply

Re: Alternate History wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 9/29/00 6:02 am
I know AD&D 2nd Ed like the back of my hand, but am still getting used to playing 3rd Edition so probably won't run it in the near future.

I think I'll base the Lizard Men on those in Spelljammer. Also, I distinctly recall the 1st Edition diescriptions and illustrations making them seem more human-like than lizard.

As for the tainted blood and random table, I can have that as either a separate race or make each PC roll to avoid it.

I'm starting to visualise the world (working title: Elvaer) as loosely Norse-Celtic, but would like to use some non-European cultures as inspirational material. Any suggestions?

I think I'll keep the Elves as an NPC race.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3073 by madpoet418

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Message 3083 of 6726 Reply

Re: Alternate History Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 9/29/00 8:09 am
Because of the state your world is in, you will probably have some nomadic cultures. Not to say that these couldn't be Norse or Celtic in nature. My predominant world culture is similar to early Norman England, with some Norse aspects. It also has a culture that has a slight Arabian flavor; sort of a Celt/Arab blend, not full blown Al-Qadim Arabian. Those are the three predominant human cultures and they work well together.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3082 by wylie_665

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Message 3084 of 6726 Reply

Re: Well met fellow DMs! dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 9/29/00 10:46 am
My first posting here too, I have been playing D&D for about 18 years, about 14 of them as DM and have too seen all the incarnations of it.
When I heard 3rd edition was comeing and it was by the Collectable Card giants WoC I have to admit I was a bit upset and ready to shoot it down in flames, but I was really quite impressed by it, with their web site support and the promise of the Master Tools it looks good to me and the future looks good too...

Cheers
DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3081 by Cheshire_Cat_X

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Message 3085 of 6726 Reply

Re: Destroy The Books! dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 9/29/00 10:55 am
Kind of along the same lines, the past few Campaigns I have run I have done so with 3 books that I have given to the players filled with riddle, clues, descriptions, drawings etc. and they decide where to go with it, I have a general idea of what is going on in the world, and there is information hidden throughout the books on this, but it was up to them to either pluck the info out to save the region or go off treasure hunting and balls to the world...

DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3049 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3086 of 6726 Reply

Re: Alternate History CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 9/29/00 12:17 pm
Wylie_665 Spake thusly:

As for elves, I'd like to have just the one type - too many subraces spoil the brew.

I like the thought of a single elf PC race. And actually, I love the thought of Lizardmen as a PC species too. (I had them as a PCs in one world once, but I also had difficulty getting the players to RP them well) Have you thought about Kenku (sp) as a bird species, they make good PC/NPCs. I have used them (or created species similar to them) in several worlds.

Also, what if you had a isolated clan of ancient elves. A group that disagreed with what the other elves were doing (genetically speaking). This group, being genetically and culturally isolated could have some interesting characteristics. Perhaps, they are the only true psions? Or perhaps, they are encountered looking for breeding material. Their isolation has left males/females sterile. The list of possibilities is not endless, but looooong.

Later
CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3071 by wylie_665

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Message 3087 of 6726 Reply

Dammit sneakabout2
9/29/00 2:23 pm
Dammit - never seen Call of Culthu as I am DMing on a shoestring with the minimum requirements... thanks anyway


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Message 3088 of 6726 Reply

Greetings DM's gwit9000
9/29/00 9:53 pm
I have been considering starting up DMming again after many years of not doing so. Any advice, like has anyone looked at the newest edition yet? Is it any good? How much distance per one hex on a standard map? That kind of thing. :)

Thanks in advance,
Gwit


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Message 3089 of 6726 Reply

Dammit? madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 9/29/00 11:02 pm
My favorite way to DM, sneak. Seems more creative. I just meant to suggest leafing through the book while in the store.

:)
-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3087 by sneakabout2

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Message 3090 of 6726 Reply

need nasty ways to make p.cs rp propley wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 9/30/00 7:20 am
my party just isnt rp ing there char propley.
i need some ansty to force them to rp there char rather than let them degenerate into the hack and slash brigade.
there is
1 fighter (bordering on godmodeing)
1 barbarian (rps fine)
1 paladin (who rps fine)
1 priest (wont uphold the laws of his religion)
1 bard (quite useless)
1 thief (it cant do anything)
1 Mage (fine)
what should i do?


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Message 3091 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop Scott_Gigot
9/30/00 10:41 am
Hi. It sounds like some of your characters need a little coercion. You can either do it with positive or negative reinforcement; you can either have special activities for the characters who DO role play (or extra loot, etc), or you can force (not necessarily bad) the others to get into line. Ways to make your characters HAVE to role play instead of hack-n-slash:

- Introduce a doppelganger. Watch the one character try to convince the rest that s/he's the original. This would be good for the fighter, who will definitely be shown not-invincible.

- Give characters messages in dreams, visions, etc. Good for the cleric. If that doesn't work, there's always the "your god is angry with you"; withhold spells, cause curses, etc. But instead of just saying "you wake up, but for some reason can't cast cure light wounds", explain that something feels wrong, distant, like there's a spiritual connection weak or gone. Make the character wonder and try to find out what the problem is. Or, have an elder priest/devout follower question the character about their faith and watch 'em squirm.

- Make them interact with NPC's; they don't just "bribe fellow tavern patrons for info", they have to actually say to the DM what they'd say to the lonely old drunk down at the end of the bar. In my group (where I play), two "adventurers" and a buxom bard went into a seedy joint looking for info. My character ended up challenging the bard (his "purchased wife" :-) in a wrestling match against one of the patrons, with the wager that if he beat her, he could buy her. It was funny as hell, profitable (the other "adventurer" started taking bets on the match), and we got the information. All totally in character.

- Throw up a situation that's really geared for one specific character to get them involved. In our group, if we're dealing with other paladins, our paladin steps in. When we're buying supplies, the gnomish "adventurer" is the man. When we're in combat and the time comes to shoot a fellow party member in the back because you're firing into melee and miss, my character steps to the front :-(.

These suggestions (for what they're worth) aside, some players don't care to role-play as much. Some people will act out every negotiation for a night's rest at an inn, and others don't care to as much. Players who are not interested at all need to be encouraged, though.

I hope this helps,
Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3090 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3092 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop ODYSSEUS_THE_TRAVELER
(31/M/HAVE SLEEPING BAG WILL HA) 9/30/00 11:26 am
Are the players themselves experienced? If they arent, maybe you should try a " mini one on one or two on two " adventure. Hook the paladin up with the cleric,,,, if they are the same faith that is or the thief with a mentor. They might just need some " away from others" time to develop the character out. Try to give them something special,,, the " our little secret" thing,,, ie,, the thief in his one on one adventure successfully steals some important object from someone,,,, now no one knows about his adventures,,, except for maybe the law and the guy he stole it from. Its a great way to get them to "flesh themselves out". Maybe make the whole crew write a small ( no more than 3 paragraph) background on their characters.
If they cant make up an identity for their characters they are reduced to throwing dice and saying the obvious,,,, i kill the guy before he draws his sword,,, or so what.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3091 by Scott_Gigot

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Message 3093 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop wolflaughing
(34/M/miami,fla.) 9/30/00 12:24 pm
The burden is on you as the GM to make the environment condusive to RPing. Put in a scenario concerning the priests temple or other priests-a fellow priests has begun to doubt his religion, and if you need combat make the reason he doubts be the fact of the obvious power and wealth gained by the evil cult of so and so.
To really force some RP make scenarios that do not involve comabt in any real manner, you can thorw a few token fights here or there but problem solving,negotiating, and just thinking your way thru-heh have them do a mission of aid and relief-stop a flood,feed the hungry,etc,etc.

They will either role-play it out, revolt against the lack of combat or force you to rethink your GMing style

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3090 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3094 of 6726 Reply

Online attribute charts??? pfclink
(26/M/Muskogee) 9/30/00 3:48 pm
Anyone know where I could find 2E attribute charts online for easy refrence?
Thanks...


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Message 3095 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 10/1/00 4:36 am
Thanks for the help, ill use the doppleganger thing against the fighter. it will work as the playyer himself isnt usually...alert until combat arrives.thaks again
Wren

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3091 by Scott_Gigot

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Message 3096 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 10/1/00 11:39 am
In another RPG (Star Wars, actually) I once GM'ed an entire adventure that never involved any combat.

There were adversaries to overcome, and the players were very creative in the ways that they did so. In the end, they never fired a shot, threw a punch, etc. and they acheived their goal.

When we're together and the talk turns to gaming, this is one of the adventures they remember most fondly. (Especially since I'm generous with XP for role-playing and creative thinking .. and not so generous with XP for "I draw my sword and swing" at the sight of every potential bad guy.)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3095 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3097 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/1/00 11:51 am
In the From the Ashes box set, there was a delicious little role-playing adventure. Easily modified to be stuck just about anywhere in your adventure as long as there is room for several armies to crowd around the PCs..

I forget the name of the adventure, but it revolves around a small silver statue of a beautiful elven maiden. As the players are walking along minding their own business, an old man hurrying down the road from the other way hands them the statue, says something along the lines of 'I'm not dealing with it any more.' then hurries along his way.

Let the players try to figure out what they want to initially, the statue doesn't radiate magic, but could be worth alot. Before they can respond to anything but the statue, 4 armies arrive - had been hot on the tail of the old man. An army of Centaurs, an army of Elves, an army of Kenco (them bird things someone mentioned earlier), and an army of something else.... The racial makeup of the armies could be modified, it doesn't matter outside of the fact that there are armies..

Each of the armies claims the statue for itself. Say, it was crafted by Elves, and they want it back, it was given as a gift to a centaur friend after a life and death struggle a century ago, they want it back, the Kenco(?) bought the statue and made a 'god' of it, naturally they want it back, and the other race just likes pretty shiny things and for some reason had possession of the statue for some time (perhaps picked up off a dead adventurer (thief))..

The trick is for the PCs to figure out a way so that everyone is happy and the PCs live.. Some of the races may be harder to influence than others, etc.. I had a blast with it...;)

Of course, a Dungeon Master has to roleplay too if he really wants to inspire his Players to..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3096 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 3098 of 6726 Reply

Char background (was: make pcs rp) Scott_Gigot
10/1/00 12:14 pm
In the group I play, it's obvious which players developed a background for their characters. I'd say about 1/2 of the group did, and they tend to be more vocal while role playing (since the player has a better idea what motivates the character). A couple of the characters developed pretty well during the early adventure so they're still involved, but there are two or three that didn't...and for some strange reason, they're played by guys who always fall asleep or end up screwing with their laptops until we need an extra magic missile.

If nothing else, writing up a background will force your players to come up with something more interesting than, "I wear chain mail and use a sword".

I wrote some background for my character and it's online (http://web.usxchange.net/gigot/thedstory.html) in case I need it while playing but I've lost the printout. It doesn't explain everything about Thed, but there's tidbits that hint towards most of his personality. I also wrote out possible future deeds that would fit Thed, but they're not included. I'm willing to bet you could determine his class, ideals he holds near, and get a good guess of some of his stats. Of course, you'd probably misjudge his alignment, but that itself could lead to some interesting RP'ing between party members.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3092 by ODYSSEUS_THE_TRAVELER

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Message 3099 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/1/00 4:34 pm
for apriest not to uphold his laws of his religion the easiest way to ensure proper roleplay is to remove all spell like abilities untill such time that he does otherwise no experience after that send a servant of that deity to teach him the correct manners of a priest who refuses to follow the laws.
bards are a unique class of character if a player is unable to grasp the concept of a bard it is best for the dm to take that player to the side and see if they would prefer to convert the character to one of the stronger classes the bard has losing the other classes it has taking exp points total/3 and adding that to the new character.
for a thief who cant do anything maybe gloves of dexterity or a manual of such if its outright roleplaying they may not have the head for it or heart maybe they need to convert to something else
fighters almost are always like that just put him in some one on ones that show him without the party life can become very short indeed.
hope you find this helpful send message to address anytime tryp-t.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3090 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3100 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/1/00 9:29 pm
So, You need tips for a fighter, a thief, a cleric, and a bard.

I have heard from another DM who admits that he does not role play too much, that for his fighters, he creates their personality from popular wrestlers. This might help your fighter. if he does not have a favorite wreslter, find out if he has a favorite TV, cartoon, or movie star.

Your thief is another story. It helps if he/she is well read/versed in movies/novels of the swashbucking type. though fellows like the 3 musketeers are not the thieves class, they do have some rogue-like elements. The evil-musketeer, "Rogueford" (sic) the one with the eye-patch. He seemed very sinister (A good personality for a thief). Also, do not forget Oliver Twist. fagan was a Rogue/Thief, with underlings. One of the songs "I'm reviewing the situation" reminds me that the class as a hwole should be characterized as cautious, and calculating. Think of the Ferengi from Star trek Next Generation. They generally avoid unprofitable ventures.

The bard can have several uses. Another DM posted on some sight (I cant remember details) that he allowed one of his characters to practice songs. The bard liked Stevie Nicks, so she practiced these songs and used them to influence the party. +1 in combat to all friendly characters, a calming song to help the injured sleep / heal.
Bards are known for having lore about things. When your group enters a new area, you can give the info to the bard, and let him explain it to the party. (Don't forget to throw in some legends, myths, and old wives tales into the info the bard will have. Also remember that it does not need to be 100% accurate, it could be a half truth or an exaggeration).

The cleric who does not uphold the law. First of all if the character is Lawful, this could be considered an alignment deviation, with all of the dire consequences that follow. Since your 'problem' is role playing your 'solution' or 'punishment' should also be role-played.

In order to make it stick, it should be personal to the god who this cleric is disobeying. Also, you must have a feel for the severity of the infraction. Inother words, how sacred and holy the law is to the god / cult will determine the severity of the punishment for not following it.

Lying should cary a heavier penalty for a follower of a god of Truth or Justice, than to a god of agriculture, war or weather.

Failing to aid the poor should be pinushed severly by a god of charity.

refusing a bet is the same to a god of chance, luck, gambling?

it all depends on the god's focus. This should also determine the flavor of the punishment.

There was a movie called "Brusters Millions", there were 2 punishments there, the first was when Richard Prior's character said his dad caught him smoling a cigar and made him smoke a whole box of them. The next one was the inheritance, he had to spend so much money and have nothing to show for it, or he would not get the rest of the inheritance. (Both of these made him respect the items, and not take them for grantite).

As for rolew playing in general, you have to be in character too. Also, granting XP for role playing will help especially if the good role players start to advance faster. lastly, you can explain and institute "table talk", which meand what ever is said during play is said in character.

I think I read in Dragon mag (276 I think), that a DM had a lot of fun, when the whole party turned to one of the characters and saied "Prithy, my good fellow enlighten us! What is this peetza of which you speek, and why do you wish to have one?"

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3099 by tryp_t

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Message 3101 of 6726 Reply

Re: need nasty ways to make p.cs rp prop Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/2/00 8:41 am
Wow, Wren, I bet you didn't think you would get so much feedback. Here is my 2 cp (most of which just reiterates what some others have said):

- First of all, a priest gets his powers from his faith in his god and following the tenents of his religion. If he doesn't do this, he loses his spells and special abilities. Period. He may even have to undertake a quest to prove his faith, in order to regain his abilities. This might bring some role-player out in him.

- Love Matt's idea of giving your adventure lore, and any useful background material to the bard and let him dish it out to the players. 2 rules: 1) he can't show the paper(s) to anyone else and 2) he can't read it verbatim. He must paraphrase in his own words. Anytime the other players have questions relating to the adventure background, have them ask the bard.

- I, too, have run many an adventure where not a sword was drawn and they usually are very memorable. I remember one occasion where a PC had dinner with a very dignified vampire to try and convince him to let another PC's character out from under his influence. Very memorable. Throw in some mystery-type or puzzle solving adventures, or others where combat is not a factor. This might make some of your non-role-players uncomfortable at first, but if the scenario is interesting, they'll come around.

- Assume that the characters are behaving exactly the way the players are playing them and have NPC's react to them accordingly. If the players are being flippant, telling jokes, or downright behave rudely (in attempt to be funny), have the NPC's react accordingly. Perhaps they might piss off a powerful fighter that beats the snot out of them.

-Lastly, give xp bonuses for good role playing. Either 1) give one xp bonus award for the best role player of the gaming session and let all the players vote on who gets the award. DM gets the swing vote in case of a tie. Make the award tasty enough that the players will want it, but not too large that it unbalances things. 2) Or rate each player on their role playing from 1 - 10. Multiply that number by 100, and give this bonus to each player. Make sure the players know you are doing this. The consistenly good role players will therefore raise levels faster than the consistently complacent ones. Regardless of the method, this both rewards good role play and encourages the poorer ones to try harder.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3090 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3102 of 6726 Reply

Teaching a new generation of players CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/2/00 1:13 pm
I am teaching my kids the fine art of D&D. I have blown the thick layer of dust off my basic book and expert rules, and they are ready to dive into the fray.

I am looking for suggestions for some good 1st/2nd level monsters. They will quickly tire of fighting orcs and the occassional inept party of brigands. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

CZE


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Message 3103 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players eldrwyrm
(29/M/Aurora, CO) 10/2/00 3:32 pm
My recommendation, rather than digging out the old basic/expert rules, pick up a copy of hte 3e Adventure Game pack. A member of my group picked it up for his kids, and they are going great guns. The rules are simplified for beginning RP'ers, but they can quickly ramp up to 3e.
3e's CR mechanic work great for picking low level monsters.
As for monsters to use with low level characters, any of the staples: goblins, kobolds, skeletons, one or two zombies, etc.

The Elder Wyrm

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3102 by CZE_026

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Message 3104 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/2/00 3:50 pm
How old are your kids?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3102 by CZE_026

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Message 3105 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/2/00 4:22 pm
The youngest is nine and the oldest thirteen.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3104 by Umbratikus

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Message 3106 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players ubermosher63
(27/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/2/00 4:24 pm
CZE,
I remember the old Box set of D&D, basic edition, had a solo adventure for new players that was pretty good. It was my first taste of D&D and I've played ever since (going on 15 years). If you can get your hands on it that might be a nice adventure for them. If not I remember the solo 1st level fighter faced a first lvl evil mage, and my favorite, a rust monster. I remember attacking it with my sword confidently, then as it turned to rust I thought this was the coolest game ever.
Hope this helps.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3102 by CZE_026

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Message 3107 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/2/00 4:48 pm
The adventure pack may be a great thing, but I haven't decided whether or not to make the immediate transition to 3E. The majority of local players are (to date) sticking with 2E. Besides, this was a venture to teach the basic Role-playing. I was going to start with "Mean Streets Mean Villians (RPing in crime dramas of the 60s-80s, with a frightfully basic gaming mechanic), but they both showed a desire to FRP. The influence of Harry Potter and The Hobbit is showing through.

I want to get through this introductory phase with as little expenditure of capital as possible. If it looks like they will stick with it, then great, I will spend the money. If not, well, I am out some cheap graph paper and a few hours of creative time.

CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3103 by eldrwyrm

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Message 3108 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/2/00 4:57 pm
I have the basic boxed set with the "blue book" rules and "keep on the borderlands" module. There is a sample dungeon in the basic book, but I don't recall a solo adventure. There is one in the expert rules (IIRC).

I inherited this edition of the basic D&D years after I chucked my basic boxed set (circa mid 70's). For some reason I held on to the bloody thing. I even still have the little numbered cardboard squared that you could substitute for dice. What a collectors item.

My nine yr old generated a halfling character, and we ran him for a while just to help him learn character generation and gaming mechanics. He encountered a (dun, dun, dunnnnnn) Black Pudding. Didn't take him long to figure out to use fire against it. Smart kid. A few years and he will be really dangerous.

CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3106 by ubermosher63

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Message 3109 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/2/00 5:36 pm
Hey Untermosher:

Please tell me you know where all the NJ-based RPG groups congregate. I have visions of rushing into a packed auditorium, echoing with the clatter of dice, with my arms held wide ... in slow motion ... you know, like in that Blind Melon video.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3106 by ubermosher63

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Message 3110 of 6726 Reply

Aussie Gamer ss_187_2000
(20/M) 10/2/00 6:47 pm
I am an Aussie ad&d player and am just beginning to write up my first campaign.Any help would be appreciated.Send ideas etc to:
ss_187_2000@yahoo.com
thanx.


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Message 3111 of 6726 Reply

Two magical rings tuffnoogies
(30/M/Kansas City) 10/2/00 8:31 pm
Ring of Advanced Healing:

This magical ring lets the wearer add 3 to her level for determining her rate of natural healing. The ring must be worn for the whole day
to recieve any benefit from it.
Prerequisites: ??

Ring of Complete Healing:

These minor artifacts have 2-12 charges when newly created. By expending one charge the wearer can be restored to full hit points,
cured of any disease, and purged of any toxins in the body. The ring will not remove curses or enchangtments of any kind. It will not restore life to dead tissue, but will completely destroy any undead creature foolish enough to use it. Rings of Complete Healing cannot be recharged.

Comments?


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Message 3112 of 6726 Reply

Spells, Bards and Rhymes prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 10/2/00 8:32 pm
I had an idea for a Bard NPC. Everytime he casts a spell, the verbal components for him will be a rhyme about the spell itself.

For example
Alarm might be
"If even one step a creature does take,
Ring, ring, and let me wake."

I'd like to hear everyones suggestions for spell rhymes. I'll compile a list and put it on the web somewhere. I'm going to focus on Bard spells, but feel free to post about any spell. (I'm going to cross post this to several clubs)

More possbilities (and I'd like to get several rhymes for each spell)

Cause Fear
"Hear my laughs of glee,
as this creature from me does flee"

Charm Person
"Listen to me well my friend,
Allies we are until the end"

To Be Continued .....

Prolix
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thirdeditiondndplayersguild


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Message 3113 of 6726 Reply

Re: Two magical rings prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 10/2/00 9:05 pm
>>
Ring of Advanced Healing:

This magical ring lets the wearer add 3 to her level for determining her rate of natural healing. The ring must be worn for the whole day
to recieve any benefit from it.
Prerequisites: ??
<<
This ring lets you heal an extra 3 hitpoints if you rest and wear the ring for the whole day.

This is worse than a ring that let you cast Cure Light Wounds at will once per day. I'd say a Cure Light Wound ring would have a market value of 2250 GP. About what other rings that mimic first level spells cost.

Ring of Advanced Healing: I'd give a Market value of 1000 GP.
Prerequisites: Forge Ring, any healing spell OR any 5th+ level Necromancy spell. (Forge Ring is a 12th level Feat)


>>
Ring of Complete Healing:

These minor artifacts have 2-12 charges when newly created. By expending one charge the wearer can be restored to full hit points,
cured of any disease, and purged of any toxins in the body. The ring will not remove curses or enchangtments of any kind. It will not restore life to dead tissue, but will completely destroy any undead creature foolish enough to use it. Rings of Complete Healing cannot be recharged.
<<
This ring does not need to be a minor artifact. It is less powerful than a staff of life which can be created by a 13th level Cleric.

A Staff of Life lets you do 50 heals (or 50 resurrections) and has a market price of 130,000 GP.

Your ring has 2-12 heals (average 7). It can't do resurrection, but it CAN be used by anyone. That's a big bonus that anyone can use it. So I'd say a market price of 3000 GP per Heal it contains. 21,000 GP for an unknown 2-12 charges

Prerequisites: Forge Ring, Heal


For everything 3E
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thirdeditiondndplayersguild
Prolix

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3111 by tuffnoogies

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Message 3114 of 6726 Reply

Re: Two magical rings prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 10/2/00 9:17 pm
Amulet of Life Saving
Anytime the wearer is brought between 0 and -10 hitpoints, a heal spell is cast on the character. The Amulet has 1 charge and then is destroyed.

Market Value: 3000 GP
Prereqs: Craft Wondrous Item, Heal, Spellcaster level 13+

PL
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thirdeditiondndplayersguild

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3111 by tuffnoogies

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Message 3115 of 6726 Reply

Re: Two magical rings prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 10/2/00 9:18 pm
Better make it Market Value 3500 GP.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3114 by prolixlacuna

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Message 3116 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players cplchaotic
(29/M/Wheeling, WV) 10/3/00 9:03 am
I started doing the same not long ago. We've played 2 or 3 different campaigns. One was a thieves campaign. They first fought a group of goblin theives. Since they are theives, they didn't have to fight all of the time. They had to think about things like how to rob the necromancers tower. They are having fun so far.

The Cpl

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3102 by CZE_026

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Message 3117 of 6726 Reply

Re: Aussie Gamer CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/3/00 9:32 am
I have three great references for you, all unfortunately are currently out of print, but I have seen copies frequently for sale/download on the net.

1)"Master of the Game" by Gary Gygax
2)"Campaign Law" Iron Crown Enterprises
3) "World Builder's Handbook" by DGP Press

There is also a net book by Rich Staats that has a great overview for setting up campaign evirons. If you need assistence setting the basis for dragging the adventurers (kicking and screaming) to the adventure, look at the several net plot books (Blue Troll Netbooks - I don't recall the URL), or and enumerable books on plots by The Writer or Writers Digest Press.

Hope this helps
CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3110 by ss_187_2000

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Message 3118 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/3/00 9:46 am
I was always fond of skeletons. You can dress them in armor or noble clothing, you can graft weapons to thier bones, you can rearrange their bones in interesting configurations, and who says they have to be human skeletons? Skeletal dogs, horses, sabretoothed tigers, all are interesting opponents.

They also great for the younger set because they don't shed blood and are already dead, so those spouses who oppose the constant killing and bloodshed that goes on in D&D can relax a little. Skeletons are also spooky enough to raise the little hairs on the back of your neck, and are perfect for a little Halloween gaming.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3102 by CZE_026

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Message 3119 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/3/00 10:18 am
If I remeber correctly, the adventure is in the 1st box set, where the Bronze Dragon is sitting on a treasure hord, encountered by a magic-user and a fighter in plate wielding a bow.

The adventure starts with a description of a wizard's tower that was engulfed in green flame. The nearby town sends you to investigate.

The most memorable thing in this adventure, was the statue on the rotating pedistal. Doors open from inside the room, but only the door that opens from the outside is the one the statue faces.

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3106 by ubermosher63

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Message 3120 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/3/00 10:38 am
My first D&D boxed set, circa 1979, contained module B1, (Into the Unknown, IIRC).

One funny note. I remember trying to coax my mom into buying that set for me. I was showing it to her in the store, and the caption on the bottom of the box said "The Adult Fantasy Role Playing Game." Mom almost didn't buy it for me because she thought it had something to do with sex.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3119 by mattbcieri

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Message 3121 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/3/00 11:36 am
if there are enough characters in the party skeletons make for some fine fun.
also one could introduce the begings of the arch-evil whatever that as the party progresses they find the whatevers henchmens fingers in the pie so to speak other than that just go through the old monster manuals they have some interesting creatures to use for different flavor

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3102 by CZE_026

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Message 3122 of 6726 Reply

Re: Spells, Bards and Rhymes SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/3/00 12:41 pm
I've considered allowing an alternate magic system where the spells are poems, 1 quatrain (4 line stanza) per level. Each spell goes on an index card, which I keep between games. If the mage wants to "memorize" his spells for the day, I give him the index card with that spell on it. If he wants to "wing it" and cast the spell from memory, he recites the words, I check them vs the card, and if there's a miscast, it's GM Fun Time.

Biggest problems are 1) Magic Missile will be a one-stanza spell, will be quickly memorized by the player, and I'll have a machine gun on my hands, and 2) discrepancies between PC/player Int scores.

But, Re: Prolixlacuna's post:

>>

For example
Alarm might be
"If even one step a creature does take,
Ring, ring, and let me wake.<<

If you want to be a mean ol' GM, I'd make the spell be a near-literal interpretation of the rhyme. So if anyone's on watch that night and takes a step...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3112 by prolixlacuna

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Message 3123 of 6726 Reply

Re: Spells, Bards and Rhymes prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 10/3/00 2:09 pm
I like your idea. But I think its more suited for a LARP (live action role playing) game than a table top game. Unless you make Fighters stand up and swing heavy objects during combat, you are just penalizing the spellcasting classes.

You can still limit the number of times a player can use spells. There's no reason to let someone cast Magic Missile til the cows come home. You could do this. The first time in a day the spellcaster casts a (Level 1) spell, he needs to recite the first stanza. The second time he needs to repeats the first 2 stanzas, and so forth. A level 1 spell with 5 stanzas can be cast at most 5 times per day. The player could always research new stanzas.

My intention wasn't for this to be a literal description of the spell. That takes away an element of creativity.

For example, you could change "a creature" to "a creature of tiny or larger size currently outside the warded area into the warded area" but thats a bit dry in my opinion. Or even worse, you could change "creature" to "foe" and alarm becomes much more powerful.

The problem with interpreting the rhymes literally is that a minor change in wording could greatly increase the power of the spell. It would be almost impossible to balance spells according to level. (Effectively what would happen is spellcasters get a Level 1 Wish spell, a Level 2 Wish spell, .....)

PL
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thirdeditiondndplayersguild

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3122 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3124 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/3/00 5:06 pm
I am trying to recall the cover on my first basic D&D set. I remember it was a display set from the hobbyshop, they had a run on 'stuff' when they moved to a new location and it was summer of '78. The box was slight sun faded, but overall in great shape and at a discount. I got the AD&D DMG and the PHB for christmas '79.

The basic set I inherited is from '81, and it has the dragon on the treasure, but is ni a monochrome blue, with a sample dungeon inside. The accompanying module Keep on the Borderlands (B2?). I remember B1, but that has been years.

Reading through the basic and expert rulesbooks brought back all the problems we had decifering what undead do. It never explains what it means to lose a life level. Ahh the frustration of youth. I still find it frustrating in play. . . "Now what were my abilities three levels ago..."

Did 3E do anything to make that more playable?

CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3120 by Umbratikus

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Message 3125 of 6726 Reply

Re: Spells, Bards and Rhymes SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/3/00 5:53 pm
Hmm... I should've thought of that (literal spell wording => too powerful spells). I mean, I've *read* Alan Dean Foster's "Spellsinger" books but just forgot them...

My intent with the index card spellcasting wasn't to penalize spellcasters at all. In fact, if they memorize their spells like official AD&D rules, there's no change at all. I give them the cards, they read the cards, the spell goes off.

This was my idea to deal with some arguments of my friends that "I know how to drive a car; I don't forget how if I don't 'study my driver's ed' in the morning." I think, if magic were to exist, it'd be more like higher math than driving a car.

A first level spell might be like taking a derivative. If you're a techie-math person, you can take most derivatives without breaking a sweat; you started doing it freshman year of college or earlier and kept doing it clear through whatever level of Calc you had to take. I don't have to even glance at my books to know that d/dt (sin x) = cos x.

Now, a higher level spell might be like some of the more funky math procedures. I knew how to do a Fourier transform, once. If I sat down with my books, I could review and do it again. But no way can I just rattle off such a thing from the top of my head.

Not wanting to inflict calculus on my PCs, I went with the poetry. If a player uses a short rhyme a lot, like a 1st level magic missile spell, the player will *know* that spell soon. His character ought to *know* such an elementary and oft-used spell as well. But maybe he'll want to memorize his fifth level spells for the day, just to make sure he's got them right.

I could certainly solve the machine gun problem by adhering to spells/day limits. Duh, my oops. Thanks for the whap upside the head.

The end result was intended to be some flexibility for mages, so they wouldn't have to memorize *all* their spells and could do some "on the fly." But they'd better know the ones they don't study *really* well.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3123 by prolixlacuna

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Message 3126 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/3/00 5:59 pm
I'm really racking my memory on this one but the boxed set I'm refering to was a called Dungeons & Dragons (not AD&D) Basic Set. It was at least the first reprint of the boxed set from '79. It was a red box with what I thought was a Red dragon on the cover with a warrior. They then went on to release the Expert Set in a blue box (which was for character level's 4-9 or thereabouts), a green box for level 10-15 (guessing the levels but you get the idea), a black box called the Master Set, and one other that eludes me.
I believe it may still be in my father's garage somewhere so I'll look for it (because now I'm caught up in nostalgia). If I find it I'll try to convert the adventure into a .doc or .pdf file and put it out there.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3108 by CZE_026

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Message 3127 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/3/00 6:07 pm
Geez most people at least introduce themselves before mocking my handle.

I think there was a Shore-con recently down in South Jersey, but I didn't make it.
I read on another board that a store called Gamer's Realm somewhere around Exit 8 on the Turnpike is looking to start a RPGA Gameday. I've fallen out of the loop since graduating college.
... Good luck making your visions reality. If you really want to be like a Blind Melon video you'll do it in a bumble bee outfit.
If you find anything good post it, I'm interested myself.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3109 by madteuton

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Message 3128 of 6726 Reply

Re: Spells, Bards and Rhymes prolixlacuna
(34/M/NY) 10/3/00 6:17 pm
<<>>

Third Edition changes what it means to "memorize" a spell. They wanted to avoid the whole can of worms that you are describing.

In 3E, all spellcasters spend time each day to "prepare" their spells. That means that they actually cast the bulk of their spells, but leave small "triggers". Those triggers are typically short and quick and release the full effects of the spell. The triggers are what most people consider the entire spell. They are not. They are useless without the preparation (or pre-casting if you will).

Thus Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, and Bards have to prepare (or pre-cast) their spells in much the same way each day.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3125 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3129 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/3/00 8:42 pm
That's the stuff. The Basic D&D covered lvls 1-3, with Humans using character classes, and elves, halflings, and dwarves as separate race-classes.

The copy I'm using with the blue monochrom cover has a copyright 2nd ed. Nov '78. I was incorrect in my original post. The last copy of the basic rules I remember was a red pb, with a 4 color picture on the front cover. That was in the early '80s. The expert rules that I picked up used, says 1st printing July '83, covers levels 4-14. It still has the same race/class distinction of the basic set. It came with module X1, Isle of Dread, which I don't have anymore either (it is probably with my original expert set in the box, which is probably in my parents garage too). I recall there were also to sets of three books, a players pack and a dungeon masters pack, but I never had them. I was already well into AD&D by the time I saw them. The only reason I picked up the expert rules was so we could play during boy scout camp. Two pbks were easier and lighter to carry.

A those thrilling days of yesteryear. The new smell of the boxed sets, the crack of the new bindings of the 1st ed AD&D. It takes me back. Right up there with walking to school, uphill both ways in 6' snow and dogging predatory dinosaurs. Ah well.

CZE

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3126 by ubermosher63

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Message 3130 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 10/4/00 8:02 am
Yeah fon memories for me too, as aplayer with my cousins at age 11, and eventually running my first real campaign in AD&D.
In the beginning over here in the UK tracking down anything related to roleplay was a quest in itself, many fruitless search then slowly by word of mouth and the writings of many a sage you would find a shop that had a couple of adventures and 5 minitures.....ahhhh the good old days..

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive
http://profiles.yahoo.com/dungeonkeeperuk
http://www.egroups.com/group/dungeonkeeperuk
Cheers
DKUK

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3129 by CZE_026

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Message 3131 of 6726 Reply

Re: Spells, Bards and Rhymes Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/4/00 8:19 am
Yet another thing I like about 3rd Ed (as a reminder, I am still a 2nd Ed guy), the treatment of spell memorization/preparation. At last the "forgetting" of spells once cast makes perfect sense.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3128 by prolixlacuna

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Message 3132 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/4/00 8:22 am
When I started, there was the basic set, and there were the AD&D books (and the earlier publications like Chainmail, and Eldrich Wizardry). There was no Expert Set, Master set, etc. I never even looked at them, because at the point they were released, we were well into the Advanced game.

I, too, pine away for the old days when the game was young (and I was young). Like I mentioned before, I think the release of the 3rd edition is reminiscent of the early days of anticipation of the 1st edition.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3129 by CZE_026

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Message 3133 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/4/00 3:53 pm
What my dad did to me to teach me how to play was this:
First he baught me a machette. These things are great starter weapons.
Secondly he caught a wild boar and build a pen to hold it.
He then beat the boar daily until it was full of rage... he then threw me in the pen.
This boar was a great experiance. Not only did I feel the EXP enter my body when I delivered the last blow but I only lost 1 HP!!!

My father is now taking me on a Gnome Raid... hes taking me to a "Disney World"... I heard there was a Greater Wererat there... he will be slayed.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3132 by Umbratikus

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Message 3134 of 6726 Reply

Re: Teaching a new generation of players tormentcha
(40/F/Alexandria, VA) 10/4/00 4:24 pm
I have not been able to read ALL the posts on this subject line but the original question was for first level monsters and then it somehow got into a nostalgia thing about the 1978 edition books. As you can see by my info I'm older than most of you and I play with my kids who are 8 and 10 years old. I usually have them create monsters... I'm also teaching them how to create their own worlds/dungeons/villages/etc. Their favorite of course is Pokemon and Digimon monsters and for now I allow those into the mix because they're things they are familiar with. There's both Casper type ghosts and mean ghosts. Spiders and snakes are always good for them. They're also really good at just making them up, then I find a comparable monster from one of my monster manuals (I have accumulated a most extensive Role Playing Library) and adjust the stats accordingly. Our game is looser than the rule book because I'm trying to get them to understand the concept, how to RP rounds, how to be imaginative, and how to take care of themselves. As they grasp concepts I add more and more of the harder rules into the game. Ask your kids to create monsters. There's a Yahoo community for kids to RP in and I was considering one for people who teach/DM with children 8-14 yrs old. Anyone else interested in something like that? And I won't add to the DnD book memories because I started long before that game came out. *LOL*

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Message 3135 of 6726 Reply

Re: Two magical rings tuffnoogies
(30/M/Kansas City) 10/4/00 4:39 pm
Thanks for the input, Prolix.

That's exactly what I was looking for.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3113 by prolixlacuna

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Message 3136 of 6726 Reply

Skill synergy ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/4/00 10:55 pm
All:
Have any of your players discovered interesting combos with skills and feats? I was running a game this Monday past when a player playing a 2nd level monk caught me off-guard (though I never admitted the cardinal sin to the players of course) by using his tumbling skill (6 ranks) with jump skill synergy bonus of +2 and a +4 bonus for a 18 dex, he had a +12 to his tumble skill check. A successful DC 15 check enables a character to tumble 20 feet without drawing attacks of opportunity. So as long as he rolled a 3 or greater he succeeded. He basically just tumbled into a nest of goblins, flurried blows and got out, without drawing attacks of opportunity. Now much to my disgust this character tumbles more than walks.

It was then when I felt the presence of WotC. I just kept thinking about combos in the game Magic the Gathering and now I'm sure we'll find the same here. I wonder how long it will be before we sit around and groan when we see players pull out worn out skill/feats combos. See visions of D&D versions of the Channel/Fireball combo found in Magic the Gathering.


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Message 3137 of 6726 Reply

Re: Skill synergy shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 10/5/00 5:20 am
There are numerous opportunities for a focused PC to "catch the DM off-guard" .. the trick is to use their own tricks against them, or have bad guys with counters for such madness ..

Hold person, for the tumbler who dive-rolls into melee, and plans on bouncing on the walls on the way out, comes to mind .. not to mention the "grease", or just a simple "grappling" attack (by a half dozen of the little goblins), or a net.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3136 by ubermosher63

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Message 3138 of 6726 Reply

Re: Skill synergy madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/5/00 9:47 am
Wow. That's cool.

I'm gearing up to create my first 3e character now. Still don't know much about feats and skills, but it seems interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3136 by ubermosher63

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Message 3139 of 6726 Reply

Re: Skill synergy madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/5/00 10:16 am
A lot of the synergy bonuses make sense. I like the bonus to pickpocket gained from a high level in bluff.

Combos are inevitable in any rpg. Take, for instance, the elven ranger/rogue in our party. With his double weapon feats and sneak attack it is possible for him to get four attacks with bonus damage before the enemy can act. Not to mention that he and the other rogue just LOVE to flank people.

Point is, players are going to find powerful combos and use them. Just make sure the bad guys do the same. And, if the players get stuck in a rut, treat the situation just as you would any other hack and slash tangent: puzzles, traps, rp encounters, and situations where "tumbling" just doesn't work.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3136 by ubermosher63

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Message 3140 of 6726 Reply

Help! madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/5/00 10:26 am
I have been DMing since before I hit junior high but have always run moderately sized groups (2-5 players). The party I am catering to now consists of seven players and I must admit that I am in over my head.

The combats are OK. They are slow but luckily I am a bit anal retentive and manage to keep order.

The main problems occur when the PCs get into town or split up while adventuring. Chaos ensues. Seven ongoing scenes is a lot to remember while dealing with out of turn requests, side comments, teleporting characters (as in, "no, Brad, your paladin is at the inn, he can't just appear in the temple so you can say something"), etc. I start loosing track of my NPCs and I find that I sacrifice detail to make room for the multi-tasking.

We have discussed splitting up the group with one player DMing a game on another night. We have also talked about playing with two DMs (which I have tried before and it works well). But, in all honesty, I would like to pull this off on my own.

So, all you experienced DMs, what tips would you give me?


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Re: Help! tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/5/00 10:42 am
easy each player/character gets a set time limit to perform his/her action for THAT TURN any out of turn actions do not count will not count and could cost the group serious penalties in the long run once this rule is enforced a couple of good times you will find that the multi tasking becomes easier to reckon with as the other players will begin to shut up and let everyone enjoy a night on the town and for those players that just love to instantly JUST APPEAR where the action is there is a monster made just for them not sure of the spelling but it sounds like gith-yanky these creatures are very int. and hate humans teleporting through there domains which is what happens sometime when one teleports the only way one can JUST APPEAR he he he that will teach even the most dense as most giths can clean the clock of most single characters of darn near old rule retirement levels try you'll love it

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3140 by madpoet418

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Message 3142 of 6726 Reply

Re: Help! lastlonecubsfan
(31/M/T-Town) 10/5/00 11:58 am
I have to agree. Another thing to is to keep notes /notecards. Have one for each player with all his/her stats.That way you can easily keep the groups separated.
I like trpt's idea of handling the "poof I'm there player". There is nothing more exasperating.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3141 by tryp_t

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Message 3143 of 6726 Reply

Re: Help! madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/5/00 12:03 pm
Oooooooo, that's a tough one. I've encountered this tricky situation(s) myself. I have found the best thing to do is to discourage the PCs from splitting up too often. I achieve this by concentrating on each "sub-plot" to the exclusion of the rest of the PCs. I DM the splitter till I corral him/her to some kind of central point, keeping in mind that I would like to eventually guide the party back together. Then, I stop with the sub-plot once the splitter has had his fill of glory-hunting, and get back to the rest of the party ... excluding the splitter. I keep in mind that somehow I am trying to get the rest of the party to this central point ... where they will inevitably run into their uppity cohort (upto his/her ears in trouble by this point usually).

I enourage the party to act as a team and constantly give them gentle reminders that without one member's especial abilities there is overall diminishment in their effectiveness ("aww, if only we had Piggly with us to detect traps ...").

It's all about herding the strays back into the herd for me. Doing it without letting the PCs see you sweat is the real challenge.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3140 by madpoet418

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Message 3144 of 6726 Reply

Re: Help! Scott_Gigot
10/5/00 2:53 pm
The last time my character wandered off on his own, things were going well until I stumbled across a hideout we weren't supposed to find until much later. He ended up getting plugged by three poison darts and captured; it wasn't until two (very quiet for me, since we're all pretty good about the whole "shush while you're not present" thing) sessions later that he was recovered. And of course he was missing all his magic stuff and cash...doh!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3143 by madteuton

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Message 3145 of 6726 Reply

BG Binge madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/5/00 3:17 pm
Anybody get their hands on Baldur's Gate II yet? I'll probably pick it up this week. My doctor said that I don't get enough obsession in my diet.


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Message 3146 of 6726 Reply

Re: Help! leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/5/00 6:05 pm
Here's what I do, maybe it will help.

(I LOVE big groups...hehe..)

When one or more of them branch off, I take them in another room - doesn't have to be anything fancy, even standing on the patio, etc.. if they need dice, bring a d20 or whatever.. If they insist to go alone everywhere, then I'll do each one like this. Take em out in the hall, gabby, gabby, adventure, adventure, then go get the next one (or more..). The rest stay around the table, go to the restroom, raid the fridge, whatever.. if they don't like the game dragging a bit, they know it is because they aren't staying together..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3140 by madpoet418

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Message 3147 of 6726 Reply

Re: Skill synergy orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 10/5/00 6:28 pm
I would imagine that tumbling on unsure footing, say a dirty, rubble strewn dungeon floor would attract say a -5 penalty, its hardly the same surface as a gymnasium. He will still get away with it more often that not but occasionally he will get smitten by a dozen angry and frustrated goblins then ask him if it was a good idea.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3136 by ubermosher63

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Message 3148 of 6726 Reply

Re: Skill synergy messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/5/00 8:17 pm
I would have to Disagree with ya Org about that
-5 penalty. Just because hes tumbling in dirt or on a dungeon floor doesnt mean you gotta give the poor man a Penelty. Never does it say you must use tumble on a flat surface.. like a surface of a gym. BUT I would give him a penalty because theres a horde of goblins surrounding him... what if he tumbled into one.. hehehe.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3147 by orgruff

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Message 3149 of 6726 Reply

Little input here cinnabar_ratwing2000
10/5/00 9:19 pm
Recently one of my PCs stumbled upon a particularly nasty trap that was desighned to discourage anything entering the are. I never intended it to work as well as it did. The PC was butchered quiet literally. His body ended up splatter on the ceiling of a large room. Looking back over the traps design I came to a conclusion why htings went so horribly wrong. That is the lack of rules governing gravity in DnD. Lately I have been experimenting with gravity traps, because they do work nicely as far as not killing players go. However if one happens to have great momentum when entering a gravity free room, they will be countinuosly accelerating until they meet there demise on the finely hand crafted stone sculpture of someones god. Now someone help out here on some special rules for gravity to prevent some of these "misaps".

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3148 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3150 of 6726 Reply

Re: Help! madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/5/00 9:22 pm
Thanks for the ideas.

The problem is not easily solved with player control methods. The group often stays together and there are only a couple of beginners who end up "teleporting", using player knowledge, etc. The difficulty is in my multi-tasking abilities for those times when everybody needs to be doing something.

Right now we use a loose turn structure but by the time I get back around to the first player, the NPC's voice has changed, I don't remember exactly what they were talking about etc. I once asked a player, "Remind me, where are you again?" He just smiled and said, "In the shop where Fate just bought his new sword." Oooooops.

I will use the PC card idea (with counters, most likely) because it addresses multiple facets of our situation. I could use some organizational ideas or something similar, many of you (like Lee) have the large group experience that I lack.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3146 by leeok31

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Message 3151 of 6726 Reply

Re: Little input here Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/6/00 9:24 am
<>

Lets not confuse zero-gravity with moving through a vaccuum.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3149 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3152 of 6726 Reply

Re: Help! mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/6/00 9:47 am
I have a few twists on the ideas already presented to you to keep your sanity.

The note cards:

I would recomend maybe using different colored cards, or using a colored marker to place a stripe across the top.

The color codes could break up things like:

1 color for places
1 color for PC note cards
1 color for your NPC notes (what they do, what they want or can give to the PC)
1 color for other stuff (Items, secrets, etc)

Run the encounters like round time fighting (except it will be turn based)

This means numberring each location, and going in order for each turn (also calculate the time to get from one location to another)

If you like these Idead, or not, you can combine them with using maps and minatures. Let your PC's provide / paint their characters if they wish.


Lastly, if you wish, you can introduce a magic item that will allow the PC's to Marshal themselves.

A Gm I played under had the Alliance Band. Based on alignment, the original purpose was to solve the coming and going of players from session to session, but this can work intra session as well.

When a character is in trouble, he slaps the alliance band, rolls a d100 and based on his level
Message 3152 of 6726 Reply

Re: Help! mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/6/00 9:47 am
I have a few twists on the ideas already presented to you to keep your sanity.

The note cards:

I would recomend maybe using different colored cards, or using a colored marker to place a stripe across the top.

The color codes could break up things like:

1 color for places
1 color for PC note cards
1 color for your NPC notes (what they do, what they want or can give to the PC)
1 color for other stuff (Items, secrets, etc)

Run the encounters like round time fighting (except it will be turn based)

This means numberring each location, and going in order for each turn (also calculate the time to get from one location to another)

If you like these Idead, or not, you can combine them with using maps and minatures. Let your PC's provide / paint their characters if they wish.


Lastly, if you wish, you can introduce a magic item that will allow the PC's to Marshal themselves.

A Gm I played under had the Alliance Band. Based on alignment, the original purpose was to solve the coming and going of players from session to session, but this can work intra session as well.

When a character is in trouble, he slaps the alliance band, rolls a d100 and based on his level and alignmnet (good/evil) will teleport a creature/being (from the d100 list) to join in the fight!!!

The missing characters were always asumed to be on these types of fights. (It works both ways, others whom you can call, can call on you.) So the next session the returned players would befin by completing the fight they were summoned to.

A PC can revuse, but he starts running the risk of not being able to get help when he needs it.

You can modify these to work only within the group (or perhapse having 2 settings)

At the end of the aliance summons the summoned has the choice of returning or staying where they are.

Imagine your thief is about to make a good score, then the mage gets into trouble and starts to summon the party to him!!!


Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3150 by madpoet418

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Message 3154 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here glenromero
(30/M/Honolulu, HI) 10/6/00 2:52 pm
You forgot friction. Friction would slow you down. Even in a vaccum there is stuff floating around. And all that stuf has gravity of it's own. So even the smallest particals have gravity to attract other particals. Thats how nebulas are formed. All this things at to slow you down.

Thank you for letting me waste your time with even more useless information.

P.S.
If the character was to drag its feet all that would happen is it would change direction and lose some speed and take some damage as they hit the floor. Again completely useless

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3153 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3155 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/6/00 5:09 pm
Dragging feet isn't useless if losing speed is the object (to keep from hitting the statue). Since dragging the feet results in drag, which, as you pointed out, will slow you down.

(I was ignoring air drag/friction, et al, since effects of that order are unlikely to be noticed by a 250 lb man in plate mail traveling at a good clip. This is why I'm an engineer, not a physicist. )

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3154 by glenromero

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Message 3156 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here glenromero
(30/M/Honolulu, HI) 10/6/00 5:14 pm
I recently spent a week with my brother-in-law, who is an Astro-physicist. Draging feet would also change directions to.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3155 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3157 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here Sir_Bluetooth
(21/M/Kearney, NE) 10/6/00 10:06 pm
Just have to add my two cents.
Our discussion of 0 gravity effects in the real world and vacuums is rather interesting, but I am not sure if we answered the question.
First, it is almost pointless to discuss everything that could happen in 0 gravity to slow someone down for 2 reasons. First, in real life we will never have the opportunity to test it, even in space you are subject to the same gravity as you are in earth, that is why satelites keep falling back into the earth as their orbits decay. Secondly the question was about a game, and I would rather hope that most of us DMs do not require physics classes before we start the game so that we can use every little thing that may affect a character. If this were the case it would take an hour to find damage every time someone fell, and you would have to use phrases like terminal velocity...
For the game I think it would be best to ignore many things for the sake of simplicity. Here is how I would handle it if I were the DM in this case. I would ignore drag, as it is generally ignored in the rules for falling anyway, because it would have very little effect on the speed. Secondly I would ignore the attempts of the character to drag his feet, once he hit the ground with them he would push himself away from the ground. If the character were to try to grab something that would be different, and would depend on something being available.
If it were 0 gravity the player would probably hit the statue at the speed he entered, and take little damage from the impact. Probably around 1d6, the damage for falling 10 feet, as it is difficult to propel yourself much faster than that. The damage from the statue could be anything...depends on how sharp the statue is and what it is coated with to make it a truly deadly trap (The good news Rath is that you only took 3 damage, the bad news is you are now covered in green slime...)
If it is instead a altered gravity, with the statue being 'down' then the player would take the 1d6 from his original movement and additional fall damage from the length of the room.

I also want to mention that a true vacuum (which we have not yet found any examples of) has no particles of any type in it. Not even subatomic ones. Space is a good example of what is not a vacuum, as it is full of junk that we have released (air from opening doors on shuttle craft and such) as well as things like solar dust (along with light particles...)
If for some reason a character managed to enter a vacuum without protection he would quickly die, as his eyes and other organs would quickly explode due to his blood becoming a gas which would then attempt to fill the vacuum.

Travis

P.S. I do not intend to be sexist by the use of he...if you are a female and offended think of it merely as thinking that only a male would make this fatal mistake. If you are male and offended, well too bad cause hey I would probably charge headfirst into a room without checking the gravity (how often do you check gravity) and Im a guy...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3156 by glenromero

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Message 3158 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/7/00 7:06 am
You guys have given me a grand idea. When liquid is in zero-G it's surface tension forms it into a sphere. The PCs could find a zero-G area populated by floating spheres of black pudding, green slime, or similar creatures.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3156 by glenromero

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Message 3159 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 10/7/00 8:05 am
Cool idea

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3158 by madpoet418

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Message 3160 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/7/00 12:39 pm
depending on the room let us presume that it was designed to do just as it was. the player must then accept the result most assurdly if it is a fool hardy fighter in plate mail armor and the statue is a refined lodestone (ho ho he he) then for every 1 foot of travel 1d10 must be rolled for damaged sustained otherwise then just use 1d10 for every 10 feet of travel this will then reduce the overall damage no matter if there is drag friction or any of those other matters of real world rules that us mortals MUST obey remember this is suppose to be a fantasy world who truly knows what can happen.
BUT just incase you create a deadly encounter you did not intend you can use a little idea that i use called "the hands of fate" roll percentage dice unseen then have the player roll their percentage dice if they need to live let them otherwise dont there have been times to increase the importance of the moment i would roll the dice for all to see telling them they must roll better than the dice that fall regardless of the roll they must roll better i have used this for everything from failed saving throws "party too small to survive without present character" to outright deliberate death traps who knows what deities lurk about sometimes with a cost sometimes not DM'S CHOICE remember you are the arbitrator of the rules if you dont have fun also then truly neither will the players "GAME ON AND PLAY FANTASY"
TRYP-T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3149 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3161 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 10/7/00 4:54 pm
That's a wild idea of zero-gravity! Maybe the players can think of them as beholders being seen from the back... hehe

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3158 by madpoet418

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Message 3162 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here gwit9000
10/8/00 3:01 am
Hmm would a gelatinous cube retain its shape a wonder? :)

Gwit

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3161 by knightmare6

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Message 3163 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here wren_the_elven_ranger
(122/F/Silvery moon) 10/8/00 5:45 am
one problem tho, how would these jellies move around?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3161 by knightmare6

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Message 3164 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here empooress
(F/Atlanta GA.) 10/8/00 12:13 pm
Maybe they just slime from one place to another?? leaving a gelatinious trail like a snail (could even be a super glue thing that comes back to haunt players lol)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3163 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3165 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here empooress
(F/Atlanta GA.) 10/8/00 12:24 pm
MMMM..."the hands of fate" .... I will remember that good idea. I , being a most devious game mistress often hand out SMA at the start of a session especially with those who've not played with me before. Now SMAs generally take the form of chocolate (kisses work well) I just pass them out declare they are SMA if no one ask then I won't tell them thay SMA stands for SAVE MY ASS and can be used in cases of iminent demise of one's character with an apporpiate amount of grovel before the GM to ....well save your character's ass. Of course, The GM is always right!!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3160 by tryp_t

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Message 3166 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/8/00 8:28 pm
And now fore some more completely useless info:

In the second ed Survival guides (I am not sure if it was Winderness or Dungeoneers), they had the damage of a free fall rated as 1 d6 per second of free fall (unit of acceleration) to a maximum of arround 30d6. (This is why you can have fighters with over 200 hp fall off a mountain side and survive the encounter when the maximum damage the fall can do is 180hp damage)

To calculate the damage of a fighter moving at 360' a round, devide that down to seconds.

360 / 60 = 6' per econd.

Now a d6 per unit of acceleration. The each second is 10m/s^2 Each time frame moves the speed of the previous acceleration plus 1/2 ot the new acceleration.

For the first second 0 to 10 meters, moves 5 meters. (about 16 and 3/4 feet) Our fighter is only moving at 6 feet per second, and would warrent less than 1d6 damage for the colision with the statue.

Another useless example:

A room with a reverse gravity trap that has a 60ft cieling will inflict how much damage?

each 10 meters is about 33.3 feet so he needs to travel 20 meters to hit the ceiling.

the first second is 0-10m traveling 5 meters
the second second ia 10-20 traveling 5 for the acceleration plus 10 for where the previous acceleration left off (a total of 15 meters in the second second) plus the original 5 meters from the first second = splat (20 meters in 2 seconds of a whole 2d6 damage)

So by these calculations, in order to hit that statue with all that force, the acceleration must have been HUGE! (Did he make a sonic boom when he colided with the statue? And does the statue have it's own black hole generator?

These rules always seemed a bit silly and cumbersome to use? has any one else found an easier system for calcualting damage for falling / running into things?

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3155 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3167 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/8/00 8:42 pm
The Hands of Fate? I am reminded that as the GM you can always have soem devious trick up your sleve.

Remember the Crypt Horror? or was it Crypt thing? This monster casts a spell on the most powerful member of the party, then tells the party that he was desintegrated.

In reality the spells cast were paralysis, invisibility and teleport, making it difficult to find this member.

Instead of killing members iwht terminal damage, thell the party that it looks like he was desintegrated. (You could even provide the puff of smoke, the pile of dust, and a light show to make this seem more likely. Only to have the party find him several rooms later.

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3166 by mattbcieri

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Message 3168 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 10/9/00 4:16 am
This whole thing reminds me of a raging argument I once had with a science-obsessed player... he just couldn't accept that we were NOT dealing with the real world, but a realm of fantasy and imagination. For me, 1d6 damage per 10' feet, to a maximum of 20d6, WORKS and I leave it at that.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3167 by mattbcieri

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Message 3169 of 6727 Reply

3e Elves madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/9/00 11:16 am
I don't have the 3e books yet ... my DM does though. Right now, I'm trying to preliminarily create a 3e character. I've decided to create an elf. Now, I hear that the new racial rules for elves is +2 DEX & -2 CON. Is that right? What other changes to elves have been made? Do they still get bonuses for long swords and bows? I already know about the lifting of the multi-classing embargo. Any help is greatly appreciated.


====Message 3170 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3e Elves tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/9/00 12:08 pm
from perusal of the book mentioned at the book store there can be many differences just tween the elve classes themselves. needless to say it is time to talk to the game master and have her/him tell you what these boons or banes will be. one must always remember it is her/his world you enter not the rulebooks. sorry that truly is the way it goes
tryp-t

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3169 by madteuton

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Message 3171 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3e Elves madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/9/00 12:12 pm
uhhh, thanks, man.

So can anyone help me?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3170 by tryp_t

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Message 3172 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here empooress
(F/Atlanta GA.) 10/9/00 12:30 pm
It seems to me that such complex calaulations would really slow the pace of the game. I played in a free-for-all one-shot with an excellent gm who instead of using dice used a majic eight ball, now there's a random effect device. It was a great game that moved at a quick pace. However the simple method another posted used (sorry I can't remember your name) seemed pure simplisity itself.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3166 by mattbcieri

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Message 3173 of 6727 Reply

Re: Skill synergy dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 10/9/00 12:48 pm
Hmmmm looks like a few house rules may have to come into play.
Maybe give a disadvantage to attack when the tumbling fool comes to a stop...?
But you can't help loveing the imagery of a monk rolling about the place like that..

DKUK

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Cheers
DKUK

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3136 by ubermosher63

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Message 3174 of 6727 Reply

Re: Help! dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 10/9/00 12:52 pm
I once DM's a gaem consisting of 12 people I think it was, I had a player who would bring in all waifs and strays, and yes it gets a bit difficult, luckily it wasn't often that large and the main group consisted of 7 players I think it was...
I think when you stat DMing a large number of people you really need to become a bit more flexible with the rules...and the rolls....so you can keep a lot more going on in your head, at the time I had a lot of time on my hands so had the luxuary of DMing smaller groups or indiviuals on little gameing excursions..

Ahhhh memories..

Cheers
DKUK

Get more files/pictures/message boards/chat and fellow RPGers here:-
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http://www.egroups.com/group/dungeonkeeperuk (Email group, also with Polls and Database)
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Cheers
DKUK

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3140 by madpoet418

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Message 3175 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 10/9/00 12:56 pm
Any of the "ageing" gamers out there remember Grimtooths Traps, it had some interesting uses on the use of gravity for devious traps..
I'll have to dig it out.
I'll post info when I find it..

Cheers
DKUK

Get more files/pictures/message boards/chat and fellow RPGers here:-
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Cheers
DKUK

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3149 by cinnabar_ratwing2000

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Message 3176 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/9/00 3:20 pm
<>

as a matter of fact, i have traps and traps too.. quite interesting and scary.. i'd like to have some of the others, since they're such great inspiration, although i'm not quite demonic enough to use any of the traps as-is.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3175 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3177 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here Danduin_
(~30/M/In front of a computer) 10/9/00 7:10 pm
>>one problem tho, how would these jellies move around?

Probably like a jelly fish. . . On whatever current takes them to wherever

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3163 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3178 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here Danduin_
(~30/M/In front of a computer) 10/9/00 7:24 pm
I love those book I still have a few of them around. They are very funny books. And now, the 101st trap has been sprung on you! This post is acutally a scroll of Uncomprehending Langusddir 0x80:, 1:, 0:, Syl=:0x1:, 0x0:, ExtSec=:0:

3ÀŽÐ¼ Pü¾|¿ PW¹å
ó¤Ë¾¾±8,|ƒÆ âõ Í‹ ‹îƒ ÆIt8,tö¾N¬< tú» ´Íëò‰F%–Š F´<t´ < t:Äu+@ÆF%u$»ªUP´AÍXr �ûUªu öÁ
t Šà ˆV$Ç ¡ë ˆf¿ ¸
‹Ü3Ƀÿ‹ N%NÍr)¾u�>þ}UªtZƒïÚ…öuƒ¾?늘‘R™FVè ZëÕOtä3ÀÍë¸ €G@
V3ö VVRPS Q¾ V‹ôPR¸ BŠV$Í ZX�dr@u
B€Çâ÷ø^Ãët

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3175 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3179 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here Danduin_
(~30/M/In front of a computer) 10/9/00 7:26 pm
oh yeah they would probably *splat* when confronted with 'normal' G

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3177 by Danduin_

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Message 3180 of 6727 Reply

Re: Help! madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/10/00 9:24 am
Thanks again for the tips. Luckily only four of seven showed for the last game. We shall see how it goes next week.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3174 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3181 of 6727 Reply

Floating Jellies madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/10/00 9:29 am
They would either push off of a solid object to obtain momentum or just drift. Even if they had no way to pounce or move, imagine fighting another creature in a zero-G room with several jelly obstacles.

I think the cubes would retain their shape.

Now all I need is some floating penut butter.

-Scott


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Message 3182 of 6727 Reply

Physics and ADND CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/10/00 10:34 am
This is the third discussion of physics and ADND in the last two weeks. The first two were on the ADND-L list. It started as discussion of Rate of fall and Feather fall, and split into two separate discussions, on with acc of gravity (which in game terms is much faster than 9.8m/s/s. Which is important, not in terms of damage, but in terms of duration of fall. Think in terms of spell times, and movement for saving moves. The other discussion dealt with the effects of friction on falling bodies, including those in Feather Fall, based on different conditions. This discussion is continuing off list.

But, here it got more intensely focused on constant velocity, acceleration and impact. A few things need to be corrected. A vaccum is independent of gravity. MOst classic physics calculations start with a falling body in a vacuum, affected only by gravity. The other affects are added to complete the equations.

Satelites do not operate in zero G. Their orbit is still well within the gravity well of earth. They function on a balance between acceleration , centripital force, and gravity. When one of those fails, the body succumbs to the stronger of the other two (usually gravity).

Our theoretical fighter, entering this 0G room will move at constant velocity until acted on by another force (impact for example). Damage would be based on a relative comparison of velocity compared ot free fall (IMO). Any effects due to air resistance and/or dust would be negligible, unless the fighter was wearing a sail. Yes, dragging his heels would create acceleration in the opposite direction. But, unless he could continually increase his acceleration, this effect would be nominal, until friction reduced his velocity to a point that the vector velocity (from his push) excedes the vector velocity (of his fall). Which in game terms is arbitrary, since the time frame would not normally permit that.

CZE


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Message 3183 of 6727 Reply

Re: Floating Jellies Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/10/00 3:43 pm
>>They would either push off of a solid object to obtain momentum or just drift. Even if they had no way to pounce or move, imagine fighting another creature in a zero-G room with several jelly obstacles.<<

a floating jelly could be adapted to such an environment (or magically altered) and have flagellae much like those of a protazoan to allow it to move through the air. you could modify their stats to allow a grasping attack, or simply have them collide with a target. either way, i'm already scared..

>>I think the cubes would retain their shape.<<

i agree.. if they can keep a cubic shape in normal gravity, there's no reason they shouldn't in zero-G. however, gelatinous spheres would make for an interesting veriation...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3181 by madpoet418

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Message 3184 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/10/00 3:59 pm
i'm sure we've all played on a swing at some point.. imagine this.. you're swinging at walking speed, and dismount from the swing. no big deal to walk away from it, or even skid to a stop.
now imagine that somehow someone "switched off" the gravity just as you left the swing. that's the situation, to draw a very rough analogy, of the aforementioned fighter. if you were doing this in normal clothing, no big deal. however, if you're carrying a lot of heavy armor, weapons, and possibly treasure, it's harder, because your momentum is so much higher due to all that extra mass.
to draw an example from Heinlein.. if someone pushes something light, like an empty cardboard box, at you in zero-G, it's easy to stop since it's mass is so small. however, if someone threw a refrigerator at you, it would be quite difficult to stop.

the big strong fighter running in all that heavy gear with the gravity being switched off becomes just like that refrigerator.. quite difficult to stop, short of a collision (and any number of things could happen then!).

now, the reason it's hard to skid to a stop is because of friction. without gravity pushing you toward the floor, it's hard to get much more friction from it than from a nearby wall while falling. which raises the new question of whether a high level monk could manage what our fighter friend couldn't (considering the monk would have no armor, it would be easier anyway ::pulling hair::)

my $0.02,
Shabooah

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Message 3185 of 6727 Reply

Re: Floating Jellies CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/10/00 4:12 pm
I think you are correct here. Since a Gelatinous Cube is not fluid in the sense that a slime or pudding is, it is a reasonable hypothesis that it would still be a cube in zero G. Maybe not a perfect cube since Jellies are semi-fluid, but still recognizable as a cube.

CZE


i agree.. if they can keep a cubic shape in normal gravity, there's no reason they shouldn't in zero-G. however, gelatinous spheres would make for an interesting veriation

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Message 3186 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3e Elves madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/10/00 4:19 pm
Yep, there it is, right in the 3e PHB under elves. Elves gain +2 to DEX and -2 to CON.

My dear tryp-t, even DMs must adhere to *some* basic elements of DND's gaming mechanics (like those of this nature). Unless, of course, they're not playing DND that is, I suppose.

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Message 3187 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/10/00 4:22 pm
Your Heinlein analogy is a good one, but flawed in this case. In the refrigerator example, the toss is in open space. Our theoretical fighter is, however on a floor. And there will always be some friction between the fighter and the floor, if they are in contact. Friction is independent of gravity.

But, as I stated earlier, this is usually neglegible in game terms. Unless it is one heck of a long trip to point of impact. Any arguments against that could be put to rest by either one, making a smooth, virtually frictionless floor, or two eliminate the floor. If it is in 0G, then the floor isn't really necessary.

CZE

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Message 3188 of 6727 Reply

Re: Skill synergy Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/10/00 4:27 pm
>>He basically just tumbled into a nest of goblins, flurried blows and got out, without drawing attacks of opportunity<<

you probably couldn't tumble away if the goblins surround you... and in the case of something like this i would rule (and hell, it might actually say this, too lazy to check) that the tumble would count as a move-equivelent action, meaning that for at least the rest of that round, the monk is stuck wherever he lands. that's one of the great things about this game.. you can change it at whim. then again, seeing some people's whims.. oh well, just not to my tastes.

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Message 3189 of 6727 Reply

Re: Floating Jellies glenromero
(30/M/Honolulu, HI) 10/10/00 4:50 pm
I have it on good authority that the jellies would in deed retain their shape. My brother-in-law has a phd in Physics (the p is small on prepose).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3181 by madpoet418

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Message 3190 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/10/00 6:36 pm
>>Your Heinlein analogy is a good one, but flawed in this case. In the refrigerator example, the toss is in open space. Our theoretical fighter is, however on a floor. <<

if you look at it that way, and i overlooked this as well, since any step achieves its purpose by pushing against the ground, the fighter's last step as gravity winked out would also send him vaulting away from the floor, at least to some extent.

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Message 3191 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND... PS Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/10/00 6:38 pm
by the way, the refigerator example need not be in open space.. it could be done in our hypothetical zero-g room or a zero-g corridor. (ooo.. nasty trap idea.. goblins lobbing refrigerators down null gravity hallway at pcs trapped in small room at the other end...)

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Message 3192 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/10/00 10:08 pm
>>Your Heinlein analogy is a good one, but flawed in this case. In the refrigerator example, the toss is in open space. Our theoretical fighter is, however on a floor. <<

>if you look at it that way, and i overlooked this as well, since any step achieves its purpose by pushing against the ground, the fighter's last step as gravity winked out would also send him vaulting away from the floor, at least to some extent. <

This seems quite reasonable. if gravity suddenly cut out you whoud have a lot of interesting things to think about.

1] Where was the fighter in his stride (pushing against gravity, or falling into his next foot fall.

When gravity cuts out, this falling into the next stride is nullified! Nothing is pulling him down. If then then completes his next foot fall ( or has any contact with the ground) he will propel himself in the opposite direction. So you could have him ping-pong all over the room, ceiling, floor. Until he looses or negates enough momentium to slow down.

(an example with no basis in reality: Say he was moving at 360 feet per round. that is 6 feet a second. If you rule that each impact was a d6 and it would reduce his momentium 1 foor per second, and also allow him each scrape on the floor / wall to reduce momentium 1 foot per second, then your fighter must scrape and or collide with something 6 times to stop.

If you wanted to be really evil (And I do) you can descripe the room as a green tiled floor with a gritty surface, there are white lines everywhere, making a pattern of rectangles on the floor. In the middle of the room is some kind of thick web which stands 3 ft off the floor, with a thick white covering on top.

On the far side of the room is a statue which seems to be holding a lyre by the neck / top. The statue looks like it was in the process of throwing the instrument.

Now for the GM's

On this side of the room is an identical statue. The first victim to enter the 0 g room has just volunteered to play a tennis match with these 2 golems! As the ball!!! HA HA HA HA HA! I Love it.

How do the golems stay connected to the floor? use some imagination. Perhapse they wear shoes of stone melding, so as long as they are touching the floor, they are connected to it. Or they have something like velcro. (Can't use iron golems with magnitism cause the fighter would slam into the floor.

So does anybody know how much damage a stone tennis racket inflicts?


Matt

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Message 3193 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/11/00 12:23 am
How do they stay connected to the floor? magic...;)

Damage could be based on the level of the adventurers.. perhapd d6 for 1st levels, up to d12 or d20s for higher levels... or even a fixed number, save for half..

pretty cool idea...;)

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Message 3194 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND Sir_Bluetooth
(21/M/Kearney, NE) 10/11/00 9:36 am
Friction is not independant of gravity in this case. Friction is found by multiplying the coefficient of friction (or something like that...means how much grip something has) by the normal force. The normal force is the force pushing the object perpindicularly towards the surface. In most cases this is gravity.


PS. To a different post... What does having a phd in Physics have to do with magical cubes of goo? Do they teach alot about magic in Physics?

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Message 3195 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND Scott_Gigot
10/11/00 10:59 am
Have you ever studied the theory of relativity? It makes about as much sense as magic...

Two dudes set timers for year. The one guy hangs out on Earth because he's out of cash to buy rocket fuel. The other one takes a little cruise around the solar system at .99c. After a year for the first guy, he sees the second guy pull up...no problem. But the second guy feels like he's barely gotten the engine warm, because he's only been gone a few minutes. So this traveler decides to get going, and when his timer rings, he pulls back up at Earth...only to see the great-grandson (or some other descendant; I don't remember the formula for time dilation) of the first guy.
Confused yet? This is the easy stuff (or so I'm told...two semesters was enough for me). It's entirely possible that you could come up with enough high-powered physics mumbo-jumbo to at least come up with spell verbal components. And as they say, "Any science sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."

Scott

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Message 3196 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/11/00 1:37 pm
. Friction is found by multiplying the coefficient of friction (or something like that...means how much grip something has) by the normal force. The normal force is the force pushing the object perpindicularly towards the surface. In most cases this is gravity.

The equation is k(W)= F. F=Force req to move one surface over another, W=Force pressing surfaces together, k=coeff. of friction. Yes, W usually is gravity plus any other applicable forces. But we are in 0G environment. W, then can only be the other forces. In the case of our fighter, it would any force of his feet to the floor. But this would be a one time effect in 0G, since it would separate him from the floor. Just like the astronauts in the space shuttle only worse, as they are actually still in Earth's gravity well, and are effected by the gravity well of the shuttle.

CZE

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Message 3197 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/11/00 1:39 pm
Quantum mechanics is just as bad.

Anyone here recall Shrodinger's Cat?

CZE

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Message 3198 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/11/00 1:43 pm
. . .the fighter's last step as gravity winked out would also send him vaulting away from the floor, at least to some extent.

Exactly. If that force was insufficient to overcome the velocity generated entering the room, and reeling said fighter towards the statue, then he is now traveling up and over (ain't 3D grand). He may now miss the statue, but what else is there to impact? Or perhaps collisions with the wall are perfectly elastic. OUCH!

CZE

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Message 3199 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/11/00 1:48 pm
Additional.

You are essencially correct. When ever you have two or more bodies there is some effect of gravity. But, a room and a fighter (irregardless of how encumbered he may be) have a mass that is insignificant on a planetary scale. The effect of such gravity is neglegible compared to effect of other forces (or Work) generated by one or more of the bodies.

CZE

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Message 3200 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3e Elves tuffnoogies
(30/M/Kansas City) 10/11/00 6:05 pm
>>I don't have the 3e books yet ... my DM does though. Right now, I'm trying to preliminarily create a 3e character. I've decided to create an elf. Now, I hear that the new racial rules for elves is +2 DEX & -2 CON. Is that right? What other changes to elves have been made? Do they still get bonuses for long swords and bows? I already know about the lifting of the multi-classing embargo. Any help is greatly appreciated. <<

Cough up the $20 and buy the book.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3169 by madteuton

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and alignmnet (good/evil) will teleport a creature/being (from the d100 list) to join in the fight!!!

The missing characters were always asumed to be on these types of fights. (It works both ways, others whom you can call, can call on you.) So the next session the returned players would befin by completing the fight they were summoned to.

A PC can revuse, but he starts running the risk of not being able to get help when he needs it.

You can modify these to work only within the group (or perhapse having 2 settings)

At the end of the aliance summons the summoned has the choice of returning or staying where they are.

Imagine your thief is about to make a good score, then the mage gets into trouble and starts to summon the party to him!!!


Matt

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Message 3201 of 6727 Reply

2nd Ed vs 3rd Ed gwit9000
10/12/00 12:12 am
I have thumbed through the books and have heard comments from another DM about how 3e is, is there anyone else here that has played 3e and isn't all that impressed. I have invested quite a lot in 2e and am reluctant to just toss it all. On the positive side however, at my gaming store all 2e items now are being slod for cheap.

Gwit


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Message 3202 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/12/00 12:21 am
>> Quantum mechanics is just as bad.

Anyone here recall Shrodinger's Cat?

CZE <<

If you think the cat is bad try looking at Bell's Theorm. A lot of 'scientists" do not want to accept it as trye (Even when experiments go as predicted) because it implies that magic (to some extednt) does exist!

And now for sometning completely different!

Back to th cat! The main ship drive in the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy basically works on the same principal as that Shrodinger's Cat was trying to show.

Remember the infinite improbability drive? If the calculation could be computed then the outcome could take place?

(PS If we get too much deeper into this stuff, we could always convert to the Dr. Who RPG, where these things are common place)

Another idea for those who like to mix magic and science. There was a short story in the book Chicks in Chainmail where the verbal component of a magic spell was a mathematical equation.

(This story also had characters going back anf forth from our real world to the fantacy world. Well on a school trip they brought a math professor along. ...

So each spell the wizard chanted, the math professor countered by quoting some related formula, first algebra, geometry, then calculus.

I still get a kick out of the one line:

The wizard says something in calculus, which turns out to cast a ring of fire around a character.

The math teacher says something like, oh that is easy to integrate, it is bla bla bla. The ring disappears. Then the math teacher says something like, you could take it one step further which is bla bla and this set the wizard's beard and robe on fire.

If you can get the book, it is a great set of short stories.

Matt

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Message 3203 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 10/12/00 6:48 am
I'm certainly not a quantum physicist, not even more than vaguely familiar with scientific history, but what little I know about the cat and bell's theorem kinda seem like bell's theorem is just putting the cat into simpler terms.

When you get right down to it, there's a lot of D&D magic that can be explained by a bit of creative science .. claiming that the wizard changed reality in order to tilt the laws of physics (or chemistry, etc.) in his favor.

However, true invisibility is impossible .. the next best thing is a SEP (Somebody Else's Problem) Field .. not being able to see something would simply attract attention if the other senses were affected, where an SEP Field compels anyone who does sense the object in the field to simply ignore it, and immediately forget about it .. it is, after all, somebody else's problem.

And, of course, flying is simply falling and forgetting to land.

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Message 3204 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/12/00 9:29 am
snip . . . If you think the cat is bad try looking at Bell's Theorm. . .

I don't even want to go there. That was a nightmare back in college. But, Bell does get the point across. There are forces in the universe that are yet to be accounted.

snip . . . we could always convert to the Dr. Who RPG, where these things are common place). . .

Which version FASA or Timelord? I'll be there with bells on. I love the Doctor!

snip . . . Chicks in Chainmail . . . it is a great set of short stories. . .

Yes it is. I thought I was the only one who had read it. I mention it to the learned community of sci-fi/fantasy readers and they stare blankly at me.

CZE

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Message 3205 of 6727 Reply

All this high brow for a fantasy game tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/12/00 10:50 am
Look people it is all well and fine to disscuss the quantum physics of some poor fighter falling off the mountain or the poor thief who disarmed the trap the wrong way setting the secondary trap the rules where set up so that the GM doesnt need a super computer to keep track of all the stats needed for reality. Over the years i started with the first GARY GYGAX DM guide as "tsr" took it over they kept making it more and more detailed to the point that you needed upteen different books just to play a basic non-campaign game now they appear to have returned to the basics once again though they still dont have the tables that my GYGAX book does oh well such is life in the final line all that truly matters is that players who attempt to have the GM try to explain "HOW CAN THAT BE THE LAWS OF ... SAY ..." just tell them thats what happened for the die hards who wont let go tell them that you can disscuss the finer aspects with them after the session if they insist on pressing. tell them I'M sorry to inform you that your character has had a major heart attack and will be bed ridden for 1d6 weeks see how they like that for the laws of whatever no one can say when heart attacks happen or to who

if it's a little windy sorry people i use no filters on the club being interested in everything that GM'S everywhere experience the true fun of the game so i recieve every note on the re: to any given response
then again maybe it was just a black day
MASTER WELL

TRYP-T


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Message 3206 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/12/00 10:59 am
invisiblity is possible but one must understand that illusion is the way to perform the stunt
"remember luke use the force"
obiwan then causes the guards to look another direction while he disengages the tractor beam and leaves the scene such is the concept here something will cause the person looking to look in another direction untill such time that the person wishing to be invisible has passed by
i use to have fun with this untill my friends said that if i didnt stop they would stop being my friends "really use to scare the ... out of them when i would suddenly be by their shoulder going hi and there was only one way into the area they where in and they didnt see me enter ha ha"
that is one reason why i love to play DnD
later and lite
TRYP-T

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Message 3207 of 6727 Reply

Re: Physics and ADND CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/12/00 11:53 am
Actually, invisibility isn't that unreasonable. A good course in light and optics shows that. The problem is two fold, one maintaining the energy necessary to remain invisible (bending light isn't easy ya know), but magic (IMO) takes care of that. Second, not all light is bent the same and other emanations like odors, aren't bent. So creatures that see in the UV or IR may still see you plain as day. After a week or so in the woods, they surely can smell you.

CZE

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Message 3208 of 6727 Reply

Re: All this high brow for a fantasy gam CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/12/00 12:00 pm
I agree that this is a tad extreme, but good for a diversion. The discussion has been Fabulous. A reasonable knowledge of classical Newtonian physics, especially for traps, would be of great value to the DM and Players. Just a basic HS level Study Guide. In order to determine how and were damage will occur and how different things are affected. Damage amounts are easily based on the basic data in the DMG.

I never had the DM book, just the Basic and expert sets with "Keep on the Borderlands" and "Isle of Dread" By the time I saw the DM and player sets, I was already well into AD&D. But the simpler rules are usually better (again IMO). That is why for non-campaign games, we usually opt for FUDGE, GURPs lite, D6, or PlainLabel. Easy, right out of the book gameplay.

CZE

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Message 3209 of 6727 Reply

Trying to find a Module CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/12/00 12:25 pm
Okay old timers, I need your help.

I am trying to remember an AD&D module from the 1E days. The adventure centered around a manor house on a bluff by the sea. It involved pirates and smuggling. I recall one room clearly, it was enshrouded in magical darkness, and was guarded by skeletons. Many a comrade fell to those undead miscreants. The module (IIRC)had a blue cover and a 4 color illo of the manor.

What was the title?

CZE


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Message 3210 of 6727 Reply

Re: Trying to find a Module skid5212000
10/12/00 1:25 pm
U1 - U3: Saltmarsh series.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3209 by CZE_026

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Message 3211 of 6727 Reply

Tegel Manor jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/12/00 2:32 pm
Does anyone remember the old Judges Guild Dungeon "Tegel Manor" I still have my copy...loved that dungeon. I still use it from time to time.

Did they ever do a re-vamp of it? I remember seeing that advertised somewhere but never saw it. Anyone willing to Xerox me a copy?


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Message 3212 of 6727 Reply

Re: Trying to find a Module mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/12/00 11:07 pm
I don't think this is the one he is talking about. I thought the whole thing took place under water. or is that only U3?

Matt

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Message 3213 of 6727 Reply

Re: All this high brow for a fantasy gam mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/12/00 11:16 pm
Well, dont know about the croud yuo are use to, but the nerdy bunch i have hamed with would have easily wasted an after game bull session ploting out thephysics, mathematics, and metaphysics of you name what in any game we played. from D&D to Battle Mech to Gamma Worls Star Frontiers and back through RIFTS and Cyberpunk.

I agree that sometimes simplistic is the best way to go, but the group I am in now is on this reality kick, and we are using Role Master for the base system.

The one thing I like about Rolemaster is that a 20th level fighter is much more superior than a 10th level fighter than in D&D, though that may change in 3E. Also that same 20th level fighter is not as invincible in Role Master as he is in D&D vs. 20 kobolds.


(All this highbrow stuff is making my hungry for a jelly baby)

Matt

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Message 3214 of 6727 Reply

Re: Trying to find a Module orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 10/13/00 1:40 am
U1: Sinister secret of Saltmash, takes place in a manor houe on a cliff above the ocean. And onboard a smugglers ship.
U2: ??? Takes place in a lizardmans lair
U3: The Final enemy, takes place mostly underwater.

Its a great little series and I wish I still had my copies.

Orgruff

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Message 3215 of 6727 Reply

Re: Trying to find a Module leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/13/00 6:53 am
The Sinister Secret of Salt Marsh - U1 (I think..)

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Message 3216 of 6727 Reply

Re: Trying to find a Module mauser_98a
10/13/00 8:35 am
I have the module you are looking for , drop me a email, I'll email you a list of what I am selling
mauser_98a@yahoo.com

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Message 3217 of 6727 Reply

Re: All this high brow for a fantasy gam CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/13/00 8:45 am
I like Rolemaster for the skill development. PCs are all individual, not cookie cutter like most D&D characters. It takes a lot of experience to get past that cardboard 2D character feel in D&D. I have played a lot of both, and both have good and bad points. The worst for Rolemaster is that it quickly can become Rulemaster w/ some GMs who want to use every thing in print. D&D that is not usually the case. In the latter it tends to be frequent disagreements in the interpretation of the rules. Especially with 1E I think. Some sections people just viewed the outcome differently.

MOst of my games were with programers, engineers, mathmaticans, chemists, and biologists. So I understand the geek potential. I just tried to work out the science and math ahead of time. Minimizes time lost to number crunching.

CZE

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Message 3218 of 6727 Reply

Need a little help... ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/13/00 12:08 pm
My players will be heading into a dangerous and unmapped swamp to find a loremaster hermit. I plan on setting up a flow chart map to represent the swamp which is easy enough... but now I have to fill it with encounters and color descriptions. Given enough time I could come up with enough, but A.) I don't have enough time to flesh it out to the extent I'd like to this week, and B.) I'd like to tap the club's collective imagination.

I'd love any input anyone would care to offer such as encounters (its a group of 4 2nd and 3rd level 3E characters), colorful descriptions (fetid pools, old ruins, things to make one area on the flow chart clearly different from another), or even if someone knows of a product or resource that would help create a fantasy swamp.

Thanks all,
-Jeff


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Message 3219 of 6727 Reply

Re: 2nd Ed vs 3rd Ed Journeyman72
(22/M/Borderlands) 10/13/00 12:22 pm
I am currently running a 3ed game. It rocks. Okay first a little background. I have played/DMed since 1991. I was hooked on 2ed. When I heard that a rules overhaul was taking place I was annoyed. I didn't want to redo my whole library of adnd. I talked to my friend who also owns a game store about the rules changes and he basically told me that everything he has seen rocks and that I should pick it up when it comes out, just to see how it feels. I am so glad I listened to him. 3ed is everything a game should be. You can basically customize any type of character or campaign you want using the new rules. The rules are simpler than the 2ed rules and some things work more realistically. I highly recomend it to anyone interested in gaming.

I still pick up various 2ed mods and world sets that I don't own as well. They may not convert straight to 3e, but the information in many is still good and they can provide inspiration for campaign design.

So currently I am running a 3ed campaign with 10 players and an assistant DM. Remember when elves ruled the DND universe. Now I have more humans and gnomes than I ever did. Crazy. Also, a larger percentage of my players own a ph than ever did when I ran 2ed. All of my group prefers 3ed as well.
Well, Thats my take on the subject. You can't go wrong with 3ed, but 2ed is still good, I mean there are still those out there who swear by 1st edition so whatever is good for you.
Later
Journeyman

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3201 by gwit9000

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Message 3220 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/13/00 12:51 pm
Hey Jeff!

How about a wandering monster chart that you could roll on every turn or so. Could include quicksand, snakes, alligators, spiders, insect swarms, strange swamp gasses, carnivorous plants. Apart from your pre-set encounters, this type of set-up should fill things out nicely. Perhaps there's an assassin on the lamb hiding-out in the swamp who mistakes the party for bounty hunters (traps, tricks come into play) .... I'm sure such an NPC would pose as the loremaster to evade the "bounty hunters" suspicions. Could be a lot of fun. I did stuff like this with a tropical island chain adventure I created. Sometimes, these free-hand encounter areas can be even more fun than the typical dungeon-crawl.

Incidentally, my apologies for the Untermosher wisecrack.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3218 by ubermosher63

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Message 3221 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/13/00 1:10 pm
A giant Crocodile who stalks the party for several days before attacking...they may spot something moving periodically or feel they are being watched. Build a little ambiance around it.
not just a hack the crok encounter. Have it over turn their boat so they have to fight encumbered in swamp water and mud...not so easy to cast spells then is it?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3220 by madteuton

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Message 3222 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/13/00 1:22 pm
YES!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3221 by jojutsu82

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Message 3223 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/13/00 1:29 pm
Temperate Swamp in Autumn/Winter
(I think you could do some neat thing with a Georgia-cypress-swampy thing, too)

You've camped on a relatively dry hummock for the night, happy to be out of the murky, cold waters of the swamp. The dwarf still grumbles angrily to himself, picking bits of slimy, decaying plant matter out of his beard. That water was only waist-high on the humans of the party, but the heavily armored dwarf went right to the bottom...

You're glad for the warmth of the fire on this chill evening, even if it can't completely remove the ever-present dampness entirely from your clothes and gear. Dead and leafless trees stand like twisted sentinels in the night, thrust up out of the still, dark waters against a clear, blue-black sky. The druid (or ranger) has decided that the local curly ferns are good to eat, and you're not looking forward to another meal of fern and fish stew.

The trees which help to hold this blessed spot of dry ground together still cling to life, and their dried leaves rustle in the night breeze. The moon has risen, round, pale, and full, casting a silvery gleam over the area.

At this point, you can use the moon's light to intro all sorts of nasties. The water may ripple, sending out silvery cresents, to herald the arrival of some water creature. Maybe the traditional wolf howls... and then the PCs recall that wolves don't live in swamps. (Maybe a werewolf makes this place his home when the curse comes upon him.) The breeze could carry the faint sounds of eldritch chanting - human cultists of some fell god, or maybe evil humanoids of some sort.

And if it's a... lighter sort of game (or you just really want to play with their heads) the Swamp Thing or Creature from the Black Lagoon might rise up... to discuss philosophy or trade bawdy stories. Or to ask them to try its fern-and-plankton cookies. Ooh! Or remake one of those campy movies, perhaps with a female Swamp Thing carrying off a PC to be Spouse of Swamp Thing. (or the usual way around, if you've got some female PCs)

OK, don't know where *that* came from. Sorry.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3221 by jojutsu82

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Message 3224 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/13/00 3:28 pm
<>

No apology necessary. If you can't take a wisecrack and smile, then playing D&D isn't a good game to play... I've met the most sarcastic wise a$$es in the world playing...
...And I can give as good as I take ;)

Thanks for the suggestions, I plan on putting them to use, including the criminal on the lam.
-Jeff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3220 by madteuton

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Message 3225 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/13/00 3:29 pm
Very nice... I can see the gnome PC asking me frantically, "A crocodile is a burrowing animal isn't it????"

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3221 by jojutsu82

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Message 3226 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/13/00 3:35 pm
SCA,
Great story telling, way to set the stage.
You gave me a great idea though... Perhaps the good ol' shambling mound pays a visit, but with the twist that its a polite, good-hearted, well bred, and unfortunately cursed, polymorphed mage who needs a little help.
I'll introduce it after getting the players paranoid though to see if they parley or just try to attack.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3223 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3227 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/13/00 5:03 pm
How about starting off simple - a lizard man ambush. The last lizard man surrenders, however, and explains to the characters something along the lines of 'please don't kill, thought you were part of bandits that came through and killed lizard women and children while men away on hunt.' The party could either kill him, just go on their way, or return to the lizard village for more information. There they could learn some info on the bandits, and possibly which way they went.. leading to a perhaps wandering and twisted trek across the swamp tracking the bandits.. to give you more would open a window on my own campaign, and some of my players may be out there watching.. but clearly, the possibilities are endless..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3218 by ubermosher63

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Message 3228 of 6727 Reply

Re: 2nd Ed vs 3rd Ed tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/13/00 5:11 pm
have recently played 3e at the dnd tour 2000 at the ames university very simplified yes, granted the demos where lacking in role play but what can one expect when trying to create sales for role playing games overheard one of the people saying that indiana was real lite in the showing but that ames had already surpassed the expected show up , but overall you could still use your 2e to put into the 3e game conversion charts abound in the 3e so 2e players and DM's can still play

Gamer for life
TRYP-T

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3201 by gwit9000

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Message 3229 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... Scott_Gigot
10/13/00 5:30 pm
I must sleep now, but I have a few quick comments. You could vary the types of vegetation in one section vs another, which may or may not mean anything. Scrub trees, cattails as far as the eye can see (poor visibility, and a breeze will make hearing anything remotely sneaky impossible), moss perhaps.

Some areas could be full of peat solid enough to walk on...some of the peat may not be, though.

I know we've had chunks of bog floating around in some of the lakes in Wisconsin; you could have one zone with small "islands" moving around in the current.

A cool effect could come in an area with a cold/hot spring into the swamp if the air is warm and humid/cool...it would form fog over the water. The fog would be stronger if the air was cool and the water warm, but maybe it wouldn't be as eerie if the characters waded out of icy water into an area like bathwater...

Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3218 by ubermosher63

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Message 3230 of 6727 Reply

Re: All this high brow for a fantasy gam Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/13/00 9:21 pm
>>MOst of my games were with programers, engineers, mathmaticans, chemists, and biologists. So I understand the geek potential<<

our DM is a theatre major.. very cool

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3217 by CZE_026

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Message 3231 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/13/00 9:44 pm
>>"A crocodile is a burrowing animal isn't it????" <<

whoo.. two things here..
firt off, crocodiles are scary! my cleric was nearly finished by one not too long ago.. and secondly, thanks to the party bard blowing a knowledge roll, the party is not conviced that vampires can enter homes by either coming down a chimney, or by burrowing. and what makes this a real hoot is that we've recently encountered some sort of burrowing desert undead.. so... they must be VAMPIRES!!! AUGHHHH!!!!! (no wonder my turning failed so often! (in spite of the fact my die rolls sucked) )

furthermore.. don't forget about swamp gas.. can make for some interesting night encounters.. "late in your watch, you notice a light in the distance" what is it? could it be a campfire? maybe the loremaster is using dancing lights... oh wait.. sorry to have awakened everyone and made you wade over here to find it was only swamp gas. heh heh..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3225 by ubermosher63

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Message 3232 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/13/00 9:45 pm
>>the party is not conviced that vampires can enter homes by either coming down a chimney, or by burrowing. <<

that should be "now convinced" of course..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3231 by Shabooah

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Message 3233 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/14/00 12:34 am
In classic Vampire Myth, it is the Life force of the house owner that keeps the creature from entering. In that regard, burrowing or chimney doesnt matter as it has nothing to do with a doorway...it has to do with whether the house is occupied. A Vampire can enter an abandoned house without being invited as there is no life force residing there.

But really, in cultures where Vampires were believed to be real, it was probably a rumor attached to the legend in order to make familys feel safe at night...they needed a reason to believe a Vampire could not get them while they slept.

In D&D, you could have fun playing it either way...I like to play against all the classic myths...Vampires do cast a reflection and can enter wherever they want.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3232 by Shabooah

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Message 3234 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/14/00 1:39 pm
you seem to have missed the point.. the bard rolled incredibly poorly, and thus misinformed the party. since then, we've had a lot of fun hamming it up with the burrowing/chimney thing, especially when the undead in the desert were traveling at incredible speeds underground.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3233 by jojutsu82

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Message 3235 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/14/00 11:23 pm
No..I understood the point...
I was just making conversation.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3234 by Shabooah

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Message 3236 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/15/00 4:20 am
gotcha, that's cool. i like using all manner of myth as well.. makes for a lot of interesting moster variations

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3235 by jojutsu82

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Message 3237 of 6727 Reply

OKTAHA, OKLAHOMA pfclink
(26/M/Muskogee) 10/15/00 8:24 pm
I know this is a bit strange, and ask for your pardon. I'm looking for an o'friend of mine I use to game with. We both grew up in the small town of Oktaha. Mike get a hold of me if you see this.

Thanks everyone for the interuption.


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Message 3238 of 6727 Reply

Re: All this high brow for a fantasy gam glenromero
(30/M/Honolulu, HI) 10/16/00 1:50 am
I agree with you there. The group I played with in Maryland was composed of all military (AF mostly with a reserve amry Capt). We would discus why BattleTech is behind the time with technology. You have to play to the group. Just like you change how you talk to children. Not saying gamers (myself included) are kids.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3213 by mattbcieri

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Message 3239 of 6727 Reply

A DM question gwit9000
10/16/00 10:04 am
I shall be running a campaign soon after several years of not running one. Does anyone have a quick and dirty way of determining what creatures are challenging enough for a party of any particualar level without giving them somthing unbeatable or somthing too easy?

Thanks in advance,
Gwit


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Message 3240 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/16/00 10:18 am
A swamp gives some more interesting posibiliteis which I think were not covered yet.

Remember that swamps are usually stagnant water, meaning, that the water would be harmful to drink, and there might be a higher chance than average for disease and infection.

Dead things fester faster in a swamp. This means that dead and un-dead may be encountered. Wither way there would be a foul reeking stench to the area.

I would recomend sea zombies (2nd Ed) perhapse guarding a crypt. They may have been sialors who through some mishap of circumstance, had sailed into the swamp only to meet their doom.

Which means you could also have a ghost ship.

With all the death in the area there should be carrion crawlers, gouls, and perhaps an ugtug (sic) or even a neo-ugtug (sic?)

There are a lot of mists and fog if the area and water temp are very different. you could have a laier of mist giants, a mist dragon, or even a magic mist monster. All I remember of this one is that it took magic to hit, and it tried to envelop and suffocate it's victim. if it kills it's victim, then he / she becomes a mist monster too.

Yiu could literally have them wander this awamp region for months. ...

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3236 by Shabooah

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Message 3241 of 6727 Reply

Re: Little input here Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/16/00 11:10 am
If they lived in the 0g environment long enough to adapt, they could open themslves up, capture a pocket of air (like a balloon), and then expel the air to move in the opposite direction.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3163 by wren_the_elven_ranger

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Message 3242 of 6727 Reply

Re: 2nd Ed vs 3rd Ed Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/16/00 11:24 am
Ahh, a kindred spirit.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3201 by gwit9000

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Message 3243 of 6727 Reply

Re: A DM question empooress
(F/Atlanta GA.) 10/16/00 11:32 am
If you're running a group where the player chaacters are low on experience. I try to make sure there are several "easy kills" so that the players do not get discouged. For a new group I always like to have at least one or two baddies that will require team work to get rid of. If the charcters the players are using are of higher experience level then you should definatly use tough oppenents as otheriwse it's just too easy (which is also boring). Of course, if what you're going to run is a one-shot, this will not apply as well. (I always give player's characters a higher level for one-shots.) Good luck to you and welcome back to gaming as a DM. I recently started back and had forgotten how much fun it was.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3239 by gwit9000

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Message 3244 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... empooress
(F/Atlanta GA.) 10/16/00 12:13 pm
The light receeds behind you, as you enter a path overhanging branches begin to obsure the sun overhead. You feel the humidity rising,a creeping dankness that brings a chill to your feet (if you ain't wearing good boots). The ground feels softer here. To your right you notice a pool of what looks like water. [ Is it water?, Is something living in it? Is it cursed or blessed? } I may the last old fart Gm around no wait I do know others. But I've always just determined what obstacles, tresures puzzles etc that my players would run into then the describtive stuff i usually just make up as I go. After all that's what it's really all about...the storytelling.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3218 by ubermosher63

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Message 3245 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/16/00 2:49 pm
ahhh...a kindred spirit

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3244 by empooress

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Message 3246 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/17/00 9:29 pm
I agree that capsizing and destroying any boat/raft in an early encounter is the way to go. PCs would not only loose some important (non-waterproof) items but would have to deal, first hand, with the perils of the swamp. Underwater creatures are a lot scarier when you fight them on their terms and the murky water would hide sudden drop-offs that would cause frantic armor removing moments.

A favorite swamp encounter of mine is the swamp hag. She can be a PC or monster race but should be either NE or LE. When the PCs first encounter her hut, they are jumped by her guardian(s). These beasts are quite tough and may kill a few characters on their own. Luckily, the hag emerges to call off her creatures. The beasts stay nearby, growling and snarling, adding tension to the roleplaying as the PCs attempt to convince the hag that they mean her no harm.

From this point the encounter should go one of three ways. 1) The PCs agree to avaoid the hag's territory and remain silent about her presence; she lets them go. 2) The PCs charm or bargain their way into an allience with the hag (an Adept). She can help them with her vast knowledge of the swamp, give them clues as to the location of the loremaster, and even cast a few clerical spells for a price. 3) No agreement is reached. Combat continues but with the hag helping her guardians.

Other swamp encounters I have used (effectively) include the bandit fortress, territorial but stupid swamp hicks, a tribe of sub aquatic creatures that eat PC flesh, and (of course) the pesky will-o-wisp that leads the PCs into pitfalls, quicksand, traps, and other encounters.

Hope this stuff helps.
-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3245 by jojutsu82

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Message 3247 of 6727 Reply

This type of forum orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 10/17/00 10:00 pm
What I love about this type of forum is that we can all enrich each others games by just providing a few ideas.

It has been ages since I ran a swamp type encounter but I think the time is ripe to run a few of these ideas myself.

Thank you all.

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millennium


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Message 3248 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/18/00 8:41 am
Recently my PCs traversed a swamp. One very effective encounter I threw at them was giant mosquitos. These beasties were size M with their proboscis doing damage simiar to a lance. The PCs first heard their buzzing which seemed to come from every where at once. It got louder and louder until the clumsy fliers burst through the trees for attack. The high-pitched buzzing was so loud that the party had trouble communicating. It was a fun encounter for both myself and the players.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3246 by madpoet418

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Message 3249 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/18/00 1:12 pm
Thanks Scott and to everybody for that matter. I am planning to use the Will-o-wisp and the swamp hag idea I'll probably use because I want to get the PC's to parley more than fight (hence the objective of the quest is to find a person not to hack and grab).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3246 by madpoet418

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Message 3250 of 6727 Reply

Re: This type of forum ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/18/00 1:15 pm
Orgruff, I agree 100%.

Incidently for those of you who might do swamp encounters now, Dungeon mag #82 has an adventure, An Eye for an Eye, that takes place in a swamp and has some cool encounter ideas and a random encounter table.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3247 by orgruff

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Message 3251 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 10/19/00 5:54 am
I found one of the best ways to get playes to chat rather yhan hack was to take everything away from them and throw them into a totally alien enviroment, I first found this usefull many years ago with soe particularly hack happy players untill I stuck them in the final of the Slaver Series from TSR module, where they were thrown into a cave netowrk with no weapons or armour, it got them talking amongst each other adn planning things in a totally new way..

Cheers
DKUK

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3249 by ubermosher63

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Message 3252 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... empooress
(F/Atlanta GA.) 10/19/00 7:03 am
But I've still got my +22 Hackmaster and look there's a gazbo....Let's kill it now might be worth a lot of points......Hoody Hoo Y'all

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3251 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3253 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... DWalker911
(34/M/Attleboro, MA) 10/19/00 8:55 am
---
From this point the encounter should go one of three ways. 1) The PCs
agree to avaoid the hag's territory and remain silent about her presence;
she lets them go. 2) The PCs charm or bargain their way into an allience
with the hag (an Adept). She can help them with her vast knowledge of
the swamp, give them clues as to the location of the loremaster, and even
cast a few clerical spells for a price. 3) No agreement is reached.
Combat continues but with the hag helping her guardians.
---

4) The PCs target the Hag as she is calling off her minions
and they don't allow themselves the chance to negotiate.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3246 by madpoet418

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Message 3254 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/19/00 10:25 am
DKUK,
Yeah I agree, and since they are low level, just tripped 3rd, with very few magic items (so I won't have to listen to them whine about losing many toys) I think I'm going to have them get in a boat and capsize it early so they lose all of their weapons and most of their gear.. One player is a monk so they won't be totally defenseless, and there is also a ranger and a druid so they won't be helpless in the wilderness, but I would love to see how they react to that.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3251 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3255 of 6727 Reply

Maztica ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/19/00 10:47 am
I remember a thread here not too long ago regarding questions on an Aztec campaign and I recommended the Maztica boxed set. I've heard that the box set will be available for free download on 11/10/00 at the Wizards.com site.


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Message 3256 of 6727 Reply

Re: Need a little help... wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 10/19/00 11:02 am
<>

I agree in principle, but the few times I've tried it I've received angry, frustrated glares from players who just want to hack. In order to get PCs talking, I generally need an NPC in the party, developed to the point where I feel I'd rather be running the character as a PC. Mind you, when I ran PlaneScape 4 years ago, they once spent an entire game session in the tavern having a philosophical discussion about alignments; no plot hook necessary that day...

Wylie.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3251 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3257 of 6727 Reply

Re: DWalker's hag solution. madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/19/00 11:39 am
"4) The PCs target the Hag as she is calling off her minions and they don't allow themselves the chance to negotiate."

Touche'. Reminds me of one of those rare times when I got to play rather than DM. Our party had just escaped a stampeding herd by using magic to kill a few beasts and then hide behind the piles so the rest of the herd would go around us.

So there we are, standing on this huge pile of herbivores when the angry tribe of orcs emerges from the dust. They wave spears and scream at us (in broken common) about ruining their sacred hunt. One PC starts pouring oil on the beasts and threatens to force a famine. I took a different approach. "Which one of you is the chief?" my assassin asked. A brawny orc raised his hand. I put an arrow through his eye socket (called shot and a lucky roll; one shot kill).

"Which one of you is the new chief?" my assassin asked. Nobody came foreward. They let us go in peace.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3253 by DWalker911

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Message 3258 of 6727 Reply

Re: Maztica Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/19/00 11:57 am
Cool. Gotta love those free downloads.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3255 by ubermosher63

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Message 3259 of 6727 Reply

Re: DWalker's hag solution. Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/19/00 12:00 pm
"Which one of you is the new chief?"

Hilarious : D I'll have to remember that one.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3257 by madpoet418

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Message 3260 of 6727 Reply

Problem requiring advice. madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/19/00 12:06 pm
C. is an interesting case. He rolled up a wizard for our 3e campaign and has shown great interest in playing. His schedule is hectic, however, and he has missed quite a few sessions. His character is still only second level while most of the party is 3rd-5th.

Between combats C. is catatonic. Nobody really knows what his character is like because he never says or does anything. When confronted with, "What are you doing now?" his answer is usually something like take a nap, or just sit there.

In combat, the Wizard casts mage armor on himself and runs away to a hiding spot. He NEVER helps. The only time C. perks up is when it comes time to divide treasure; then he always argues (extensively) for the most powerful magic items even though he refuses to use them.

Last gaming session, C's wizard was introduced to an NPC (by another PC) as the wuss who guards the gold. The other players are plotting the wizard's murder because they are sick of splitting EXP with him and want their magic items back. One player suggested booting the wizard into the next monster filled room and blocking the door. You know, sink or swim.

C. is not a new player, he claims to be a veteran of D&D and other RPGs. I have suggested that he try a different character but he really wants to play the wizard.

Advice?


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Message 3261 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/19/00 12:10 pm
Let the PCs have at 'im.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3260 by madpoet418

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Message 3262 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/19/00 12:13 pm
You can also deny him his "share" of XPs for his refusal to participate. Just split the XPs betwixt those who have participated in a given encounter. If he throws a hissy, let him quit then. He's doing little by way of playing the game anyway and may just be showing up for the free pizza or to escape an unseemly domestic situation for a few hours.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3260 by madpoet418

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Message 3263 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/19/00 1:22 pm
You could also design some scenarios where his character is the center of attention, whereby forcing him to act. Specifics? You want specifics? Don't have any now. Anyone else have any ideas?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3260 by madpoet418

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Message 3264 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. Jiriki13
(31/M/Chicago area) 10/19/00 2:39 pm
If the character doesn't contribute in anyway to the campaign, then I would warn the player that their character will not be gaining any experience because of non-participation. I also agree with Umbratikus' suggestion on making the wizard the focus of an adventure. I also don't have any bright ideas on that subject at this time, but I will try to come up with something if time permits. If all this fails then I say kick the player out of the group or let the other characters have at the wizard. He will either get the picture or move on and you would probably be better off without the distraction. Though I do know how hard it can be to find players.

Dave

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3260 by madpoet418

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Message 3265 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/19/00 4:53 pm
Potential idea for "make the mage the center of attention"...

Let the next magic item he gloms onto be a very... interesting item. Perhaps intelligent, or perhaps cursed, but it likes him and won't let go. It has Chosen him, and oh boy does it have plans...

Maybe it's a ring that's the key to an abandoned temple or somesuch, and only "The Chosen One" can try his hand at certain puzzles, must defeat a temple guardian in single combat (hard for a 2nd level mage, though!), and any non-hostiles within will only negotiate with The Chosen One, ignoring all others.

(The McGuffin can be simple or grandiose... maybe the ring just needs to be carried back to the statue of the Great High One in the temple's center and placed on its finger, or maybe it triggers some greater magic. GM discretion for the advancement of plot).

Either C. will come out of his shell or the PCs will instantly implement their "Shut the door" plan.

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Message 3266 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/19/00 5:10 pm
I'm not sure making this sack o' potatoes so central to the plot is the answer. Perhaps a side plot though -- maybe there's a group of evil mages who have discovered that this particular PC's lineage would indicate that his internal organs (say, his pancreas) may contain key ingredients required to produce magical pigments and ointments or something. Like an ongoing nightmare. Yes, single him out and torture him, that's the answer.

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Message 3267 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/19/00 6:55 pm
I recently left my group because I couldn't make every game.. it was a distance to drive, money's tight, that kinda thing. I didn't want them to have to deal with a part time player. If this wizard player had any respect for any of you, he'd drop out too. If ya don't wanna kill the character (he might just roll another and still want to play), sounds like you should just tell him 'we need doers in our movement, Brian', or something along those lines.. kick him out of the group..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3260 by madpoet418

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Message 3268 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/19/00 7:03 pm
The only problem I see with making the mage the focus of an adventure is it sounds like he's rarely there..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3265 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3269 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/19/00 9:38 pm
So many good ideas! Actually, in writing up the next few levels of the current dungeon, I have already set up the magic item idea. The level is full of devious traps and is home to an Imp and his pack of Howlers. The fact that the level is so underhanded might make the PCs wary of an unlocked chest that contains a crystal ball, but I think the wizard will REALLY want that magic item. It's a cursed item out of the 3eDMG. I forget the name but it allows the being on the "other end to plant hypnotic suggestions into the user's brain.

In this case, the offending being is a greater devil. He will trick the user into subtly tempting good aligned characters towards evil (forced character interaction) and attacking the weak or helpless (combats that a wiz2 can handle). If it doesn't work, the PCs will have an excuse to off him. If it does work we have our adventure with the wizard as the center. It may also teach him to at least use his identify spell.

In case the PCs end up foiling that plan, you have collectively given me enough good ideas that will certainly fix the problem.

Thank you much.
-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3268 by leeok31

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Message 3270 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 10/20/00 5:34 am
Another point or two:

Use it or Loose it:

If C gets a hold of a magic Item but refuses to use it, and it makes the party really mad. make C the target of assassination attempts, and roming bandit attacks. Maybe even the rest of the party hast the bright idea of asking one of the bandits why they keep attacking. When the bandits tell the party what they are after, they might just let C fend for himself. "Why should we help you, you got the goods and the items they want, it's not like you will use them."

Magical devices:

In the bard's Tale series (PC Games) There was an adventure where there were several magical guardians, there was a rhyme to each of them, when the proper spells were cast in the correct order, then the guard would vanish and a door would appear.

Non-participation / non-expierience:

An Idea that is almost as old as D&D itself is the expierience shares and bonus xp vs. xp for speciality only!

The bonus plan is the 10% extra a fighter gets for a high strength score. There have been various variations on this idea.

The xp for speciality only I have neven seen used!
The Idea is that the fighter gets xp for fighting, the cleric for healing the thief for scouting, trap find / removing, and the mage for spell casting. That's it. The thief, mage and cleric do not get squat for fighting, or hiding in combat.

A less harsh variation to this is that the fighter gets an extra share for fighting, so that everyone gets xp for fighting, but the fighter gets more.

Another more fair variation to this it that no-one gets a share till they earn it. So mare participation, and being more effective will earn an addtitonal share, this rule alone will cut out C from any xp.

Hope this helps

Matt

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3269 by madpoet418

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Message 3271 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/20/00 6:55 am
The magic item could have a really cool effect, other than what it is supposed to do. Perhaps if the item is used each day, the mage can cast an additional 1st level spell or something. This, at first will encourage C to use the item.

Secondly, it could have a negative effect as well. Periodically, the ball will put the user in a hypnotic trance. While in this trance, the character can do practically nothing. He is open to mild suggestions (walk, stay, etc.) This would be an easy way to handle the times he can't make it to the game.

Also, in interactions with NPCs, have more NPCs address him directly, forcing him to interact. If C is flippant in his interactions, or tries to be funny and not take it seriously, have some NPC kick his ass (but let him live).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3269 by madpoet418

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Message 3272 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. tryp_t
(40/M/Ames, IA) 10/20/00 10:39 am
what is this mages alignment oh wait a minute i'm not suppose to ask that am i.
well any way mages being what they are the player should not make even more difficult for the party one possible solution is to try to set that game up when that player can play. then for the die hard players create another game for them to play. i know more work for the DM but what they hey might work.
another one is to have the mage find a ring of ancient design any other player that handles it it has no effect once it is in the hands of a mage though oh my the light show begins all players must save vs brillant burst of sparkling light except the mage who is confronted by one of those creatures call "THE OLD ONES" you know the ones who made all of the worlds and that sort of stuff now no matter what the other roll they will not save they can hear whats up but can not see. anyway this particular "OLD ONE" does not like magic plain and simple (they had them type to you know) where upon the old boy will banish the mage to some plain of exsistance that will take the rest of the party to free the mage from after they find the alternate ring to that plane. the real kicker though is that the mage is sent to this plane with just his regular clothes everything else and i do mean everything else will be left behind in a pile on the floor.
judging from what you have said about the other players i think the mage player will get a fairly strong message once he sees just how fast the others divy up the pile of goods on the floor and then again when he sees just how fast they really disscus on how much they want to rescue them.



then as the DM after game play tell the player that once he is ready to truly play the game with a more regular schedule he is more than welcome to return to the gaming table.



but personally myself he sounds like an evil spy that the DM could possibly use as npc material latter in the great games for your circle ahead

wait a minute maybe the player has chosen an alignment that he has misunderstood how to play

i try to give everybody the benifit of the doubt???

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3260 by madpoet418

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Message 3273 of 6727 Reply

Wierd Gameplaying sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 10/20/00 4:32 pm
Not really a problem - just wondering what the wierdest place that anyone has ever played RPGs in is...

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Message 3274 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying Danduin_
(~30/M/In front of a computer) 10/20/00 6:16 pm
A group I was in used to play Vampire in an old, abandoned church. I never found out *why* it was not in use, but it had atmosphere.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3273 by sneakabout2

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Message 3275 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying Sargon_Starblade
(25/M/San Diego, Ca) 10/20/00 6:21 pm
Well the wierdest world I've ever played in had a purple sky, blue ground, trees grew upsidedown, water flowed uphill, everything moved backwards, everyone there new spells; priest based on wis, wizard based on int. Useing both stats in the wis chart under extra spells. Nahal's Recklass Dwemer always worked on the spell you tried to cast at 200%. That was crazy.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3273 by sneakabout2

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Message 3276 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/20/00 6:25 pm
When I was in boot camp, we didn't have access to any books, any dice, nothing. I cut up 'chits', ala Basic, and put them in a cup, and did the rest from memory.. It was just like being there.;)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3273 by sneakabout2

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Message 3277 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 10/20/00 11:43 pm
Weirdest game setting: way back, I once set an adventure in the "twilight zone" of an arctic, tidally-locked world that mixed technology and magic in a doomed struggle... can't remember the details, just recall that my players found it too weird for their taste.

Weirdest game venue: a friend's place . . . his ferrets kept stealing the dice.

Weirdest creature: I once created an undead, inspired by Meat Loaf's Bat Out Of Hell, called a Beating Heart; it was a bat-winged, acid-spitting, calcified heart. I first used it in the weird world described above. With the clarity of hindsight, I now see it was a way of dealing with the fact I'd just had major open heart surgery the year before.

Weirdest of the weird: a trap that polymorphed victims at random (pot plant, gender swap, giant space hamster . . . what WAS I thinking?!?!?)

Wylie.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3276 by leeok31

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Message 3278 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying empooress
(F/Atlanta GA.) 10/21/00 12:16 am
Hnad down wierdest gameplaying ever has to be the Celebrity Round Robin at Dragoncon. The object is how quickly and deviously can you be killed off. My personnal favorites over the years have been Richard Garrett (aka Lord British) flushing an IRS agent into space, The Stay puff marshmallow man as the villian. And death because your mom says you need to die (done by Patrick Sean Fannon when a family that plays together came) Players have some years been allow to just make up what ever for a charcter..the ultimate was the char with arobisizing(sp??) butt cheeks. Saved his ass (pun intended) Terry Brooks would kill people off for not having a good reason why you just appeared here all of a sudden. Bill Fawcett killed off a bunch of people with Majic the obsession. Since 6 people play at a time and another person rotates in when someone dies. Dice we don't need no stinkin' dice.....The GM is GOD!!!!!!(well at least for an hour or so...lmao)
Oh yeah and my current favorite one-shot to run is a senerio that's based on HOL Human Occupied Landfill Even if you never run this game it's worth having the two books because it is the funnest role-playing materiel I've ever read. Where else can you have a charater that's addicted to almond joys and just goes beserk every time he passes a candy machine. I love bedlam

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3273 by sneakabout2

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Message 3279 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/21/00 1:00 am
SPELLJAMMERS was pretty weird...

Gravity wells, Air Bubbles...Giff, Neogi, Smokepowder...Standing on the bottom of your ship because the gravity well pulls to the center...
All of the laws of physics were completely different...there was no vacuum in space...the solar system was a crystal sphere, the stars were giant jewels...etc

I don't normally go for the prefab stuff, but that game was pretty original and my players had alot of laughs over some of the scenarios...

"In space, Weirder is better"

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3278 by empooress

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Message 3280 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 10/21/00 2:41 am
Ay my friend's house with 3 DMs and 25 players all in one game. The 3 DMs ran the same game together in seperate parts.

It was cool until everybody met up and got into a fight in the game. Took about 2 hours to get past the first round! We played for about 15 hours, but finally tired of the game and ended up quitting.

In the end of the game, we bet one guy that he couldn't strip another player, that had fallen asleep, down to his underwear. We totaled the money from everybody and it came up to $500!

He stripped this boy (he's a big boy too!) down to his underwear and almost got his white t-shirt off, but was caught by an unhappy player who realized his sudden predicament!

He wanted do the old shaving cream/feather bit to him too! Oh well, that was my weirdest game night!

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Message 3281 of 6727 Reply

Wow sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 10/21/00 5:33 am
And I thought I had played in a wierd place! I have played DND (without dice) on one of the arms of a ride called Samuri in a theme park whilst going backwards at 4.5 gees - managed to kill a couple of bandits during the ride...


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Message 3282 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/21/00 10:29 am
<>

A giant space hamster... named Boo perhaps? ;-)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3277 by wylie_665

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Message 3283 of 6727 Reply

Wierd, Polymorphing, etc. madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/21/00 11:09 am
"polymorphed victims at random (pot plant, gender swap, giant space hamster . . ."

Reminds me of a dungeon I designed. This tomb had been built in a garden with three gates. Each gate changed a major character attribute: sex, race (random), or alignment (to opposite). Would have been cool if the party had gone there instead of off on some bunny trail. Oh well.

Never really played in a wierd real world setting, always just around somebody's living room or on camping trips or the like. I've always wanted to play in the catecombs beneath Paris though. If I ever get to, I'll tell you guys how it goes.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3282 by ubermosher63

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Message 3284 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/21/00 11:15 am
"what is this mages alignment"

CN, though it should be lawful-boring! I tried increasing his capabilities; gave him a ring of wizardry I (doubles 1st level spells/day). Didn't work. When NPCs talk to him directly he either stares at them blankly or declares that he is pretending not to notice them!

I hope the Crystal Hypnosis Ball works. And I'm glad for all the advice. I think I might need a few tricks up my sleeve to deal with this one.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3272 by tryp_t

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Message 3285 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. gwit9000
10/21/00 1:15 pm
I feel your pain, there is nothing worse than an apathetic player. He will no doubt get himself killed by the PC's if your group is like any of the one I've been in.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3284 by madpoet418

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Message 3286 of 6727 Reply

The DM's mage problem gwit9000
10/21/00 1:20 pm
Y'know that gives me an idea, what if you ran an adventure that ran survivor style? A playful diety transports the players sans most equipment of course, to a remote plane or island or wherever and every few days the PC's have to vote one of there own off. I must think of a suitable prize for the winner a wish perhaps, but that is an amusing idea.

Enjoy,
Gwit


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Message 3287 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying wylie_665
(27/M/Porphyria) 10/22/00 4:06 am
<>

A giant space hamster... named Boo perhaps? ;-)



When I did that, the player went "what?!?! NOOOO!!!" The rest of the group cracked up. When the character got turned back to normal, the player begged me to say his character was amnesiac during the experience.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3282 by ubermosher63

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Message 3288 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying cplchaotic
(29/M/Wheeling, WV) 10/22/00 7:07 am
Really not that weird, but we played D&D for about 7 days straight when we were at the 1985 Boy Scout Jamboree

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3273 by sneakabout2

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Message 3289 of 6727 Reply

Cross Breeds messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/22/00 1:44 pm
Ok, I gots a question. We all know that Orgres, ORcs, Kinders, and Elfs can mate with humans. What I was wondering is why cant there be a half elf half orc, or a half dwarf half halfling? I mean if you can cross with a human, why cant they cross with each other? Are humans just the (pardon my french) slut race of them all? I mean if Humans and Orcs can make a cross breed, why cant Elfs and Dwarfs make one? Oh yeah... what about different races of elfs.. can they breed? Like an Aqua/Drow breed. Or a hlaf human Half Halfling. Would they be called Half Halflings?


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Message 3290 of 6727 Reply

Tegel Manor crmsnshdo7
10/22/00 8:16 pm
does anyone know where i can dl the maps for this excellent mod? or do any of you guys have a copy of this scanned or that u could scan?


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Message 3291 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 10/22/00 8:20 pm
The wierdest place I ever played D&D was in the IKARA missile assembly area on an Australian navy destroyer, at sea in rough weather. The lighting was bad, the dice would roll continuously, everybody was uncomfortable, luckily the next night we got back to our regular spot in the Sonar control room.

Wierdest game was a DM inspired romp through a dimensional portal that requiured us to do a reverse plane exit of a huge dungeon we just worked our way through it required us to close and lock all the doors before going through them, and the monsters were really wierd, like fighting two dimensional projections of critters from bad second rate monster movies, all these nasties were lurking in the reverse plane and could not effect the real world but they were deadly, until we realised that running away was actually the best way to deal with their fragile existance.

Orgruff

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Message 3292 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 10/22/00 8:29 pm
I once tried to centralise a game arround a player who normally hid in the background, but particpated in fights at least. It backfired on me because he never told the other players what the object of the game was. So they decided that it all got too hard and went off to chase dragons. Even when the whole thing got called off he still never told them what he wanted them to help him find. So it was never found.

I'd go with not awarding him so many XP when he turned up and found that the others were several levels above him, I'd also tell him why. I would not want to run the risk of alienating the other players by pampering to him.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3260 by madpoet418

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Message 3293 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/22/00 8:50 pm
I already posted wierdest playing place, so here goes wierdest game. I got the idea from the From the Ashes box set. It gave a basic description for something called the Ship of Fools.

These characters were all pretty well developed already - well, except 1. Some of their characters had pretty well developed 'vices' to take advantage of.

The 'head' Fool asked them if they wanted new magic items, and being the traditionally greedy player characters they were, the lept at the opportunity.

Immediately, they were seperated, one of those inexplicable 'you're all in different places now, with no idea where your comerades are'.

The priest, who was prone to acting without considering the consequences, found himself in a heated battle. 'Evil' was liberally scattered among both sides, but neither side was 'completely' evil. He sided with those being bested, turned the tide, and helped them win the battle. Only to discover he'd helped the army of a Death Knight, who he then had to fight one on one. He won - I can't remember the name.. the Manual that gives Wisdom.

The magic-user, who's character had always been smug and conceited (particularly around Halflings and other 'half-persons', i.e. Dwarves, gnomes, etc.) was shrunk to just a few inches, his magic powers shrunk in power comparatively. He was in a strange town, etc. The way out for him was to ask for help, which he never did. Had I not got sick of waiting, he'd be wandering there still. He got no magic item.

The fighter had always been a seafarer of sorts, his weapon of choice a trident. He was also known to be a very dim bulb (the character, not the player). He was at the bottom of the sea, able to breath and move normally. He was beset by numerous sharks, a few of them being of the great white and giant variety. He got busy fighting them, but came to realize they would tear him to pieces if he didn't figure out another way. He eventually managed to kill one of the big ones, and fed it to the others as he ducked for cover. He got a Helm of Underwater Action.

I set up intricate thieving quests for the two thieves in the party. Neither of them succeeded.. I can tell you some details of their fiendishly clever (if I do say so myself) pitfalls if you want. I'll wrap it up for now..

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Message 3294 of 6727 Reply

Re: Tegel Manor crmsnshdo7
10/22/00 8:54 pm
oh and to prevent some of the mocking laughter, yes i do remember that the map was HUGE. i can still dream cant i?

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Message 3295 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 10/23/00 5:08 am
There is a set of rules you can download somewhere for that - halflings are too close genetically to humans for you to have half halflings and elves and orcs are incompatible.

The rest I can't remember but half half races would be VERY rare and the different types of elves are technically compatible but can you really see a high elf with a drow?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3289 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3296 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying and HoL dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 10/23/00 5:21 am
Well Empooress, I thought I was the only one on this planet with HoL, never actually played it but it's damn fine read all teh same.

Whne I was about 14, some 17 years ago, we enede up playing in a friends shed about 6 foot long and 4 foot wide, with about 6 of us in there and the garden tools and rain dripping in at random points, hell we needed somewhere to play...

DKUK

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive

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Message 3297 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/23/00 7:31 am
When I was a senior in High School, we had this thing called "Senior Pride Day" where everyone had to come to school, but there were no scheduled classes. There were activities planned in various rooms, from sports, to art, to music, to chess, to, well, you get the idea. We played AD&D in our English Lit classroom.

The dungeon we played used the floorplan of our school. Monsters in the room were patterned after the teacher whose room that was. The two-faced Math teacher was an ettin. There were ogres and trolls where appropriate. There was a vampire for this one teacher who sucked the life out of us on a daily basis. It was fiendishly clever.

It got silly at points though. The halls were patrolled by humanoid bunny rabbits with machine guns and hand grenades, and stuff like that, but it was very well designed and we all had a great time.

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Message 3298 of 6727 Reply

Re: Problem requiring advice. Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/23/00 7:32 am
I still think you should have a few NPCs kick his ass.

"Ignore me will you...."

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3284 by madpoet418

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Message 3299 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/23/00 7:45 am
The human race is sort of a fertile bed (no pun intended) for mixed races. The human zygote can just accept and adapt zygotes from certain other racial types.

This can be explained using some of Darwin's theories. Humans have a relativly short lifespan when compared to the other races (not including orcs). In order to compete with the other demi-human races for survival, the human zygote can adapt to some of the other zygotes with the ultimate goal of continuation of the species. This way, humans can mix with elves and with orcs.

Orcs likewise, are known to mate with ogres (ogrillons) and goblin-kind, as well as humans. The elf/orc zygotes are just incompatible.

The other demihuman genetic structures are just so specialized that they can only breed with thier own kind, although racial variants can probably interbreed.

I played in one campaign where High Elves, were the mutt race. The other elven races (sylvan, gray, etc...) were the pure breeds, and when they mixed, they either favored one subrace or the other, or they were blended and fell into the category of High Elf (the most common type). It is a little weak, but I guess it works.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3289 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3300 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying CZE_026
(33/M/IA) 10/23/00 11:30 am
During a rainstorm in a US Army issue pup tent during a field training exercise near the Czech border.

Hows that
CZE

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Message 3301 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/23/00 12:05 pm
Interesting idea. I had always thought there were no orc-elves because of the animosity between the races but I can see how the two would be genetically incompatible. A war in my campaign is about to force the wild elves to ally with the orc tribes, however, and I will toy with the idea.

I've always thought there should be a gnome/dwarf subrace because the two races live in such harmony but so few of the players I know choose either dwarves or gnomes anyway. I have had several characters play half-elves that were actually 1/4 elves or 3/4 elves. I also wonder about the monster races from the MM interbreeding with other races (ie hobgoblin/human, etc.)

We play subraces oddly in our campaign. High, wood, and wild elves are not actually different races but seperate cultures of the same race. Gray elves are actually a drow/high elf crossbreed race with the crossbreeding removed many generations. Aquatic elves are unique and cannot interbreed. We've never really toyed with other subraces besides seperating the deep races from those of the surface.

There is a major NPC in the campaign who is the direct desendent of a drow and a wood elf. She has patchy skin (black and peach), the white hair of the drow and mannerisms of the drow, and bright green eyes.

-Scott

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Message 3302 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/23/00 12:15 pm
Thought of a wierd encounter you might enjoy.

The PCs come to this round room with fifty doors. They know, because of their research, that there is only one correct exit and the others trigger death spells. In the room is a vampire NPC: the only being old enough to know the way out.

The vampire is uncooperative. He would much rather feed on the PCs. He has a ridiculous AC (impossible to hit) and an incredible attack number (hits every time) but he is VERY OLD. So old, in fact, that he has lost his teeth: he does no damage with his bite (which is the only attack he uses)!

The PCs get super frustrated because this old coot keeps leaping on them and gnawing ineffectively on their throats but they can do nothing to stop him and, of course, cannot progress until they calm him down. Eventually somebody figures out the solution and opens a vein for the old blood sucker. He drank a pint and thanked the PC most graciously before moving to the next PC.

After everybody gave up some blood, the grateful vampire showed them the correct exit. The PCs liked the encounter so much that one of them, a weaponsmith, ended up forging some hollow steel teeth and returning to give them to the vampire who was, of course, overjoyed.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3300 by CZE_026


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Message 3303 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/23/00 1:35 pm
<>
More likely Halfling and a Half, or Half-again Halfling... or maybe just freak.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3289 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3304 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/23/00 1:41 pm
Or you can use the Parental Paradigm Theory of why those races are incompatible...

Just because.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3299 by Umbratikus

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Message 3305 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds Soviet2001
(18/M/Cincinnati, OH) 10/23/00 2:20 pm
No you git... they'd be called Quarterlings. Doesn't anyone remember math class?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3303 by ubermosher63

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Message 3306 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/23/00 3:37 pm
Something scares me. How in earth did you know all that about cross breeding with AD&D races? All those Zymes and Xeos or whatever.... is there an AD&D Biology book somewere that I never knew off... or is it an elective in High School that I dont know of??!!


I still think that Halflings and Ogres can mate =p

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3305 by Soviet2001

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Message 3307 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds eldrwyrm
(29/M/Aurora, CO) 10/23/00 3:37 pm
>>No you git... they'd be called Quarterlings. Doesn't anyone remember math class? <<

And their children are eigthlings until they reach majority age and become quarterlings themselves.

The Elder Wyrm

I'm haveing the strangest sense of deja vu. Another time, another list.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3305 by Soviet2001

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Message 3308 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/23/00 3:55 pm
<>

Relax Soviet. If accuracy is that important to you they would be ThreeQuarterlings by splitting the difference between whole and half now wouldn't they?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3305 by Soviet2001

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Message 3309 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 10/23/00 4:15 pm
"I still think that Halflings and Ogres can mate =p "


Only with enough strong tape........

DKUK
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3306 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3310 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying Jiriki13
(31/M/Chicago area) 10/23/00 4:21 pm
I've played D&D in Alaska, 1100ft. up a glacier. I was in the Army and was there for Northern Warfare Training Classes. We finished with the school, but had down days on the glacier before coming back to base. It was pretty cool. The DM created an adventure based on the Great Glacier from FR. Was pretty cool. There were four players and we fought some frost giants, a remorahz, and a white dragon. The frost giants and white dragon were working together to bring the entire area under their control from a rival clan of frost giants and another white dragon. We were there for some rod needed to complete a casting or something(It was quite a long time ago). Anyway, were got caught in the middle of the war. One side had ice trolls as their infantry and the other had yeti. It wasn't very easy at all. The main thing is that we had fun wiht hardly any books, just character sheets and dice.

Dave

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3273 by sneakabout2

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Message 3311 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/23/00 5:05 pm
I was under the impression a lot of this stuff originally came out of Tolkien's work. I don't know the Great Quartet as well as I should, but IIRC, there was ?Elrond? called an "elf-friend" who wasn't human, but wasn't elven either. I think that was taken as a reason for the inclusion of half-elves in D&D.

Since Tolkien's orcs were (again, IIRC) sort of elves evilly twisted by magic into dark parodies of their former selves, the two races were antithetical and couldn't crossbreed. But either could crossbreed with humans. (I don't think this is *mentioned* is Tolkien, but sort of got reasoned out by the gamers)

Now that D&D seems like it's trying to remove itself even farther from its Tolkienesque roots, I'd say it's a total GM call who can interbreed with who, and what the results will be. I like the idea of the pied (black and peach splotched) drow/high elf.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3308 by ubermosher63

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Message 3312 of 6727 Reply

Teaching 3rd Ed. Stepcrew
(18/M/Spokane, WA) 10/23/00 5:53 pm
I just recently made the switch from DMing 2nd Ed. AD&D to 3rd Ed. D&D, and I've agreed to help a group of newbies learn the game. I have the books, so knowing the basic rules isn't a problem, but I have no experience playing 3rd Ed. Can someone give me some tips for teaching or DMing 3rd Ed.? Are there any difficulties that don't show up in 2nd Ed.?


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Message 3313 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/23/00 5:57 pm
Do you think by a wish spell you can ask for a specific ogre to be able to bear children with a specific Halfing*?

*That is if regular cross breeding dont work.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3311 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3314 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/23/00 6:21 pm
Halflings and Ogres breeding?
Anarchy, total world destruction, Dogs and Cats living together...

We're talking about total chaos here!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3313 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3315 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/23/00 8:15 pm
<>

Without chaos there wouldnt Be Order and Law!!! I SAY LET EM BREED DAMNIT!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3314 by jojutsu82

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Message 3316 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 10/24/00 3:42 am
Oops - one exception - a storm giant can breed with a sprite if magical intevention is applied i.e. wish or divine intervention.
You can't have half-halflings because they are so close to humans that they are either full humans or halflings.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3313 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3317 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 10/24/00 3:45 am
WHAT? Elrond runs the Last Homely House and is pure elf as he owns Vilya - the most powerful of the 'Three rings for the Elven Kings under the sky' Gandalf is an exception...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3311 by SCA_Bard

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Message 3318 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/24/00 6:43 am
Nope. Just normal high school biology with a little bit of Darwin thrown in. Elementary. It is an annoying habit I have of looking to the real world to explain how some things work in my fantasy world.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3306 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3319 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/24/00 6:44 am


I think you are right. My mother-in-law is living proof.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3306 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3320 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds Ima_Doppleganger
10/24/00 10:02 am


A Halfling male and a Ogre female can mate, but, someone has to put him up to it. ;-P

Ima

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3306 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3321 of 6727 Reply

Re: Teaching 3rd Ed. madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/24/00 10:30 am
Been playing 3e for a couple of months now. Here's a few tips:

1) Use minatures or counters on a gridded surface (dry erase board works great). They are not "required" but will help a lot with attacks of opportunity and flanking.

2) Make sure all the players understand attacks of opportunity and the initiative system (i.e. initiative changing actions). These can be tricky for those new to 3e.

3) It is best if players have a solid plan for character advancement. With an emphasis on feat trees and multi-classing, as well as the prestige class system, nurturing a great PC takes lots of foresight.

4) Do not rely on the CR (challenge rating) system for planning encounters or awarding experience. It is a good guideline but there are too many factors for a simple system to work smoothly. Some CR5 encounters can wipe out a party that just waltzed through a CR7 and I once had three PCs gain a level for an encounter they hardly took damage in!

5) Bonuses or penalties with titles (i.e. +2 deflection bonus) do not stack with other adjustments that have the same title. Those with differing titles (or none at all) stack normally. The exception to this is dodge bonuses (which stack and no, I don't know why).

6) I would suggest allowing some monster races (per the DMG) as PCs. Many of them are fun and harmless to the game. As a side note, some offer preferred classes that are not included in the PHB (i.e. Lizardman prefers Druid).

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3312 by Stepcrew

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Message 3322 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/24/00 12:09 pm
<>

Well, Halfling curiosity is supposedly legendary...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3320 by Ima_Doppleganger

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Message 3323 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/24/00 3:35 pm
<<>

Well, Halfling curiosity is supposedly legendary... >

Well what do you think the stats and personality of this cross breed would be?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3322 by ubermosher63

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Message 3324 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 10/24/00 6:42 pm
But things could be disastrous for the poor little guy if Ogres mating rituals run along the lines of that of the Klingons.. which I would wager it might..lol

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3322 by ubermosher63

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Message 3325 of 6727 Reply

Re: Cross Breeds messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/24/00 7:28 pm
>>But things could be disastrous for the poor little guy if Ogres mating rituals run along the lines of that of the Klingons.. which I would wager it might..lol <<

A halfling Barbarian could take it. Or even a halfling cleric.... during the ritual he could cast a cure light wounds or go into a beserker frenzy!!! HAHA!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3324 by leeok31

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Message 3326 of 6727 Reply

Re: Wierd Gameplaying Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/25/00 2:04 am
i think that all this talk about crossbreeds might qualify as weird, lol

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3310 by Jiriki13

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Message 3327 of 6727 Reply

BORED GAMES jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/25/00 10:40 am
Here is an idea I figured out...for those of you who like using figures but don't want to spend huge amounts of $$ on it.

I took 2 sheets of 4'x4' plexiglass and taped them so they are "hinged together"..then I bought a couple of 1" square blank map sheets at the local hobby store and sized them to the plexi and put them between the plexi. Then I cut various colored pieces in different shapes out of paper that I had xeroxed the same 1" grid...

I then made playing pieces out of cardboard but you can also buy them at a D&D store also.

Now...to do a battle, you have a board already measured in hex grids. Each square = 5' so the new movement rules work great. You can sandwich the square colored pieces to form buildings, rooms,hallways etc. And to top that off, you can draw on the plexi with a dry erase marker to draw out dungeon rooms and details etc.

This makes a fun and easy system for players who like a visual of the battle...it takes me only a few minutes to set up an encounter...I can even draw the dungeon right on the board if I want and save the players endless hours of mapping.

So far all of my test trials have worked better than I expected. Try this out yourself and let me know how you like it.

Jojutsu
The Creative DM


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Message 3328 of 6727 Reply

Re: BORED GAMES skid5212000
10/25/00 11:19 am
Great idea!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3327 by jojutsu82

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Message 3329 of 6727 Reply

Our 3rd Edition Campaign Calitrojan
10/25/00 1:39 pm
Not that I don't enjoy the whole crossbreeding thing, but... moving on into my own ambitions.

I am getting ready to start my group on a new 3rd edition campaign. Because my old 2nd edition world was some years old and too involved to convert properly without screwing it up, I went ahead and made a new one... using the Dungeoncraft articles as a template.

Anyhow, we will be moving from the 2nd edition campaign, as the party convieniently has chosen to delve into a place that is much too violent for them and so we will be able to move on with few strings.

I was hoping for ideas into my new campaign. I planned on starting out with the Burnign Plague module from the WotC web site, just to get a feel for 3rd edition and all the new rules before I start writing my own stuff, besides it is a good little module to get the heroes involved in a few different plots.

I am willing to send a Word Document ot anyone who wants to read over it and offer some suggestions to what I can do to improve on my setting and maybe a few campaign ideas... I cannot wait til the party has to tangle with the vampire/sorceror that runs one of the rival countries... love those templates!


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Message 3330 of 6727 Reply

Elven Prison jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/25/00 3:09 pm
I am running a group of 1-2 lvl characters...the next adventure will get them trapped in an ancient Elven Prison camp..it is an old dungeon over 1000 years old and a relic of an ancient war...so far it is overun with bugs and insects
The rooms are mostly cells and common areas leading to a dungeon underneath. The idea is that following a trap the heroes will have to escape it rather than explore...and the escape takes them into catacombs and caverns that eventually dump into an underground stream.

Any ideas for rooms/creatures? anything that will add insult to injury? (There is already a form of disposal room where the elves were put to their deaths and several torture areas) I'd love some feedback/input.

Jojutsu the Sadistic


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Message 3331 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/25/00 3:37 pm
Jellies and slimes can always be counted on for inhabiting subterranean settings. There would surely be some Elvish (or non-Elvish) ghosts and ghoulies calling a place like this home, I would imagine. Or, if you really want to get crazy, perhaps a "deep-earth" beastie has found the lower reaches of the prison and thought it would make suitable lair.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3330 by jojutsu82

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Message 3332 of 6727 Reply

Re: BORED GAMES tormentcha
(40/F/Alexandria, VA) 10/25/00 9:41 pm
Cool Idea!!! I'll have to make one for the kids. I DM for my 8 and 10 year old and we use my kid's action figures and monsters as the figures so this kind of grid would be perfect for them and the size sounds about right too! We were using a checkers rug and moving it around to represent different rooms and such but that got old after a while.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3327 by jojutsu82

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Message 3333 of 6727 Reply

Re: BORED GAMES Stepcrew
(18/M/Spokane, WA) 10/25/00 11:28 pm
Something a guy told me today: use dice to represent monsters. He has a different color of die for each kind of monster. Each die has a different side up, so you know which monster is which.

Example: A battle against 3 orcs, 2 goblins, and an evil wizard. The three orcs are represented by using three blue dice, one with the "1" side up, another with the "2" side up, etc. Two green dice represent the goblins, and a red die is used for the wizard.

This works great for many DM's who don't have a lot of money but have tons of dice.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3327 by jojutsu82

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Message 3334 of 6727 Reply

Re: Our 3rd Edition Campaign Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/26/00 7:44 am
Calitrojan,

Yeah, man. Love to see your stuff. Send it to umbratikus@yahoo.com. I'm still to stubborn to move to 3rd edition, but campaign ideas are pretty universal.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3329 by Calitrojan

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Message 3335 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/26/00 7:55 am
Aside from the fact that an elven prison kind of goes against the elven way of life, it sounds like your dungeon idea is well developed. Tomb guardians are always fun when traveling through catacombs. Skeletons are always fun for that, even if they are a bit cliche. The Necrophidius is a fun guardian that I think is not all that powerful. The underground stream could be a trade route for some underground evil races, like drow or druegar. The party could plop down right on top of a drow barge. They could battle the small drow/drider crew only to find they are under attack by a group of deep gnomes who have been planning an attack on the drow barge to try to take over the trade route for their own settlements. How were the gnomes to know that the drow were already bested by the party? The gnomes could be using some kind of ranged attack, and can't quite make out that those manning the barge aren't the drow they were expecting.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3330 by jojutsu82

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Message 3336 of 6727 Reply

Visit the Chaos Trail site!! vast_55
10/26/00 8:47 am
http://www.chaostrail.co.uk
Gothic fantasy play-by-mail RPG from the dark heart of England


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Message 3337 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/26/00 9:24 am
I agree..its hard to explain the entire concept...the Elven prison was not run by Elves...in my worlds history there was an Evil Human Warlord who tried to destroy the Elven Race (aka Nazi Germany) and captured and imprisoned them...this dungeon is a relic of that ancient war.

What about Rooms/Areas in the Prison itself...I know there are CELLS..lol..I have included the basic food prep areas and guard checkpoints...am I leaving anything out? (I'm not using a Banshee as that is too obvious for the players...) I need a few suprises.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3335 by Umbratikus

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Message 3338 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/26/00 10:14 am
You could have a torture chamber in there. THe party could hear the screams and follow them to the torture chamber. The chamber is empty, of course, and once they open the door, the screams are silenced. No encounter here, just effect. Spook'em a little.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3337 by jojutsu82

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Message 3339 of 6727 Reply

Re: BORED GAMES DWalker911
(34/M/Attleboro, MA) 10/26/00 10:27 am
I always prefered using dice for monsters. It makes it easy to tell
the good guys from the bad guys and you have the monsters conveniently
numbered. I usually try use one monster mini and the rest as dice so the
players get an idea what they are up against.

Curious Traveler

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3333 by Stepcrew

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Message 3340 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/26/00 10:44 am
Ooo, I like the "screams and empty chamber." Plus they'll think there are AD&D style ghosts about, and that should *really* scare them.

Poltergeists, maybe? Cute lil half hit dice undead that are great for ambiance and shouldn't destroy yout 1-2 lvl PCs.

Prison camp a la Nazi Germany might have:

Facilities for the officers running the place. Barracks, kitchen, dining area, rec room, bar/pub

Sleeping quarters for inmates. If this was a work camp, they might not be cells so much as barracks. There could still be cells for troublesome inmates.

Guard posts at the perimeter, to make sure no inmates escape.

Medical facilities for officers and a "band-aid" center for the inmates. (In a work camp, you could sometimes get some basic healing so you could work longer)

Work rooms. Given high elven dexterity and craft skills, perhaps they were put to weaving cloth or sewing clothing for the enemy army. Troublemakers mught have been given backbreaking tasks, like expanding the underground complex ("Near the site of the cave-in, you suddenly see four elven skeletons arise, each carrying a pick!")

If you want to go really creepy, get that Josef Mengles feel with a "magical research" room. I'd expect a good deal of necromantic research and maybe some enchantment/charm (taking advantage of elven immunities to try and create better spells in that school). Maybe also a burnt-out room where the death-dealing abilities of evocation magics were tested. Or a sprawl of hideously deformed elven bodies, the result of alteration spells gone wrong...

You could even give the PCs a potential moral conundrum if they find some nifty new low level spells which were obviously the result of the "research" conducted here. Or evidence that one of their favorite spells is actually a descendant of something researched here...

Definitely torture chambers (maybe even one near the officers' quarters, intended for off-duty "fun"). Maybe something in the mass-execution vein as well.

Depending on how this camp became abandoned, you might even be able to justify a small community of elves still living here amid the bones of their ancestors, hopeless of ever escaping. They would be very grateful if the PCs could get them out. (Given elven lifespans, I'd say... what, 3-4 generations since the camp fell 1000 years ago?)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3338 by Umbratikus

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Message 3341 of 6727 Reply

Playtesters wanted for great new RPG! Cayzle
(37/Kingdoms and Honor) 10/26/00 11:18 am
Kingdoms and Honor is a role play game system and campaign designed for creative, dedicated, and literate RPGers and multiple game masters. We designed it from the ground up for Web-based play, and we are currently looking for playtesters.

If you are tired of PBeM games that die after two months, or that get bogged down in the first combat, or that are ruined by 'players' who post once every two weeks while you post daily, then we have a game for you! And if you are looking for a message-board-based Internet game that emphasizes story-telling and creativity, give us a try.

We are looking for serious writers, and there is an application process involved in creating characters. You must be literate, devoted, and honest. Many people begin things and burn out, especially in role-playing. The application process is designed to weed out the flighty and uninspired, and we will will do our best to ensure that the environment stays exciting and challenging. If you are interested, please click on the link below.

http://www.geocities.com/cayzle/KnHplaytest/


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Message 3342 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/26/00 11:20 am
Wow...excellent feedback...that got me going just the direction I needed...Thanks

Mass destruction...yes I have that all planned but dont want to post it here in case any of my players read these boards (evil laugh)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3340 by SCA_Bard
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Message 3343 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison madpoet418
(27/M/wanderer (now in OR)) 10/26/00 1:32 pm
I know I'm a little late but I had a couple of ideas.

If the purpose of the prison was genocide then there would be mass execution rooms like ovens and gas chambers. Some might never have been disabled and would be cunning magical traps.

If undead elves is too obvious then how about throwing in the angry spirit of a high ranking officer who was killed in a riot. He could have a possession ability. He would take over a PC (or treasured NPC) and start attacking the elves in the party. Perhaps a certain area of or item in the prison could effectively cast him out or make him corporeal.

A cave in could have trapped a large number of inmates in a sealed off section of the prison. If there was an adequete water supply, some dungeon critters for food, and both male and female elves, these inmates might have survived and bred. Who knows what whole generations of evolution in that setting would do to twist and pervert them. HP Lovecraft's "The Lurking Fear" deals with a similar plotline.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3342 by jojutsu82

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Message 3344 of 6727 Reply

Playtesters wanted for new Web FRPG Cayzle
(37/Kingdoms and Honor) 10/26/00 1:41 pm
Kingdoms and Honor is a role play game system and campaign designed for creative, dedicated, and literate RPGers and multiple game masters. We designed it from the ground up for Web-based play, and we are currently looking for playtesters.

If you are tired of PBeM games that die after two months, or that get bogged down in the first combat, or that are ruined by 'players' who post once every two weeks while you post daily, then we have a game for you! And if you are looking for a message-board-based Internet game that emphasizes story-telling and creativity, give us a try.

We are looking for serious writers, and there is an application process involved in creating characters. You must be literate, devoted, and honest. Many people begin things and burn out, especially in role-playing. The application process is designed to weed out the flighty and uninspired, and we will will do our best to ensure that the environment stays exciting and challenging. If you are interested, please click on the link below.

http://www.geocities.com/cayzle/KnHplaytest/


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Message 3345 of 6727 Reply

What A Complete Idiot I Am! Sorry! Cayzle
(37/Kingdoms and Honor) 10/26/00 1:43 pm
Gosh! Am I a jerk or what!?!

I'm really sorry I just posted the same message twice! I don't know what I was thinking. Please do accept my apologies!

Sorry!

Cayzle


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Message 3346 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/26/00 1:44 pm
tell me more about "The Lurking Fear"

Aoso...good ideas ALL...the brain is a cooking...
I'm sitting here at my desk writing away...can't wait for the next game now...

ALSO..if anyone wants a copy of the background story...email me at Jojutsu@aol.com..you will get to read how an ancient Paladin rose to power and eventually became the Hitler of my world.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3343 by madpoet418

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Message 3347 of 6727 Reply

The Lurking Fear madpoet418
(28/M/Portland, OR) 10/26/00 2:59 pm
If you like horror fiction then you must read the works of H.P. Lovecraft! Great ideas for RPGs! In fact, his fiction spawned an RPG of its own called Call of Cthulu. Lovecraft wrote mostly short stories, horror and some dark fantasy, during the 1920s-30s. He has an incredible imagination and an unmatched vocabulary. He tells the story of the Lurking Fear far better than I but I'll try to give you a short summary.

An investigator goes to a little hamlet on the east coast to look into the mass murders that have been happening there. The murders always happen during thunderstorms and seem somehow connected to the vanished Martense family line and their abandoned mansion. Locals are convinced that the attacks are by some animal but the investigator thinks otherwise. The Martense line was known for their ancesteral fear of lightening storms.

The investigator gets closer to the thruth as the short story progresses. He keeps noticing strange, maze-like hills that seem to stem from the mansion like mole tracks. As he gets closer, more of his companions are slain by inhuman bipedal creatures that he never quite gets a good look at and he sees plenty of carnage among the locals.

Eventually the main character journeys into the basement of the mansion on a rainy night as the thunder rolls ominously overhead. He goes gibbering mad upon seeing the sight of the Martense clan emerging from the bowels of their home: an army of twisted and deformed pulpy things that look more like horrific beasts than men. Guess they didn't vanish after all, just moved beneath the ground to live out several generations of inbreeding and cannibal nutrition.

Good story, but then all of his stories are good. Check him out!

-Scott


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Message 3348 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison madpoet418
(28/M/Portland, OR) 10/26/00 3:03 pm
PS: I would love to read of how...

"an ancient Paladin rose to power and eventually became the Hitler of my world."

My email address is in my profile, available in the members section.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3346 by jojutsu82

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Message 3349 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Lurking Fear madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 10/26/00 3:39 pm
Well-told, MadPoet!!

And, if you *are* going to check out Ol' Lovecraft for Adventure ideas (there are tons and tons), read "The Rats In the Walls". Would put an especially noisome twist on your Elven prison, Jojutsu!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3347 by madpoet418

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Message 3350 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Lurking Fear jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/26/00 3:42 pm
Ok..gee I will have to go buy Lovecraft books now... as if my players dont have it bad enough since I'm a huge Stephen King fan...

OK Madpoet...I will send you the story later tonight...hope you enjoy it.

Thanks for the ideas all...keep them coming but already this place is beginning to take on a life of its own. (evil laugh)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3349 by madteuton

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Message 3351 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/26/00 3:53 pm
The whole premise is kind of a Zen philosophy yin-yang concept...there is a fine line between good and evil and both contain elements of the other.

If you take Lawful Good to it's ultimate extreme, you get something pretty close to Chaotic Evil. Imagine an idealist so strong that he becomes fanatical and then goes a step beyond that.
He would not maintain his Paladin powers after a certain extreme, but he was so caught up in his own anger that he either didn't notice or even care...by that time, he was too far gone.

Jojutsu
The Stephen King influenced DM

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3348 by madpoet418

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Message 3352 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison DWalker911
(34/M/Attleboro, MA) 10/26/00 4:02 pm
Kinda like a Jedi falling to the dark side, eh?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3351 by jojutsu82

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Message 3353 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/26/00 4:18 pm
yes..I think thats a good comparison...its a concept I have always been fascinated with. Law taken to the extreme...of course I think the Empire in Star Wars is a pretty good example of how Law can be just as bad as chaos on certain levels...I guess we tend to think of Law as good and chaos as evil but really they are both extremes.

In the legend I wrote,
The Paladin weilded a Holy Avenger...but it was a Dark Blade called "Holy War" that rippled with red fire...its unsure if the sword is really evil and corrupts Paladins, or whether the Paladin himself corrupted the power of the sword...understand...
I wrote the story as a legend...these things are not written up in exact game terms and for good reason...its hard to write up a thing like that...although as the author, I would say the man was dark and so was the sword...both are extremists and once united there was no stopping them. Someday I think the blade may re-emerge...there is a Paladin adventuring in my game...hmmmm...

(Probable write up...thinking out loud)
Holy War is a +7 holy avenger that also flames
it has all standard Holy sword powers and an Ego higher than most magical blades. I would say it may rival Stormbringer in terms of its will although "technically" it is Lawful Good and it is way to the extreme...ie..a character weilding it WOULD draw it immediately upon sensing a chaotic or evil being and attempt to detroy them ...a wholly chaotic act in and of itself.
This would not be an artifact blade to be trifled with in any way, shape or form. A Paladin weilding it would become extremely dark, although how much and to what degree would be determined during game play. I would lean away from anyone actually having the blade during game play..the fact that it exists and is "out there" somewhere is enough to lend some fear to the campaign...and if it is ever discovered again will be interesting to see what is done with it given the legend.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3352 by DWalker911

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Message 3353 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/26/00 4:18 pm
yes..I think thats a good comparison...its a concept I have always been fascinated with. Law taken to the extreme...of course I think the Empire in Star Wars is a pretty good example of how Law can be just as bad as chaos on certain levels...I guess we tend to think of Law as good and chaos as evil but really they are both extremes.

In the legend I wrote,
The Paladin weilded a Holy Avenger...but it was a Dark Blade called "Holy War" that rippled with red fire...its unsure if the sword is really evil and corrupts Paladins, or whether the Paladin himself corrupted the power of the sword...understand...
I wrote the story as a legend...these things are not written up in exact game terms and for good reason...its hard to write up a thing like that...although as the author, I would say the man was dark and so was the sword...both are extremists and once united there was no stopping them. Someday I think the blade may re-emerge...there is a Paladin adventuring in my game...hmmmm...

(Probable write up...thinking out loud)
Holy War is a +7 holy avenger that also flames
it has all standard Holy sword powers and an Ego higher than most magical blades. I would say it may rival Stormbringer in terms of its will although "technically" it is Lawful Good and it is way to the extreme...ie..a character weilding it WOULD draw it immediately upon sensing a chaotic or evil being and attempt to detroy them ...a wholly chaotic act in and of itself.
This would not be an artifact blade to be trifled with in any way, shape or form. A Paladin weilding it would become extremely dark, although how much and to what degree would be determined during game play. I would lean away from anyone actually having the blade during game play..the fact that it exists and is "out there" somewhere is enough to lend some fear to the campaign...and if it is ever discovered again will be interesting to see what is done with it given the legend.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3352 by DWalker911

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Message 3355 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Lurking Fear Shabooah
(20/M/Fayetteville, Arkansas) 10/26/00 9:38 pm
my favorite Lovecraft so far has been "The Whisperer in Darkness". the night i read that, i had trouble sleeping. i won't give a spoiler, since that would ruin the whole thing.. then again maybe i will give one, just with a warning..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3350 by jojutsu82

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Message 3356 of 6727 Reply

Re: Elven Prison jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 10/27/00 8:54 am
yes..
I could definitely use that idea...only I think I would have some other baddie attack at the same time as the arms just to make things interesting..lol

Then I would also have the arms poke their eyes and nose...(remember ASH?) "Hey I said the words...well..mostly..."

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3354 by orgruff

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Message 3357 of 6727 Reply

Re: Our 3rd Edition Campaign bigodes_lx
(M/Lisboa, Portugal) 10/27/00 11:45 am
could u send it to me to, plz?

bigodes_lx@yahoo.com.br

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3334 by Umbratikus

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Message 3358 of 6727 Reply

Just Wondering messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 10/29/00 8:12 pm
Just wanted to know what are all yalls current campaigns about?


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Message 3359 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering.. about campaigns orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 10/30/00 12:57 am
My campaign is a homebrew world where Humans, Elves and Dwarves are on the endangered species list and maraudering humanoids and monsters wreak havoc among the ruins of a once great civilisation. I'm having a lot of fun and the players are just starting to get a grip on how precarious their situation is.

A typical medieval campaign in a medium magic environment, lots of dungeon crawling and retrieving of lost magic secrets and items.

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millennium

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3360 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 10/30/00 12:59 am
Well as of the present moment, I have been using the adventure, 'Die, Vecna, Die!' for my table-top RPG. I've been using it as a way to help reduce the number of high-level characters in my campaign and so far it has been working! Plus all my players are going crazy, since they love these characters so much, they are literally fighting for their characters' lives. Try building up characters for over the past 3+ years!

For my Yahoo! club, I'm gonna keep it secret (just in case my players are in here!), but it involves the revival of a fallen enemy from my table-top RPG sessions, that my players may remember. I haven't used him in over 2 years!

-K6

My 2nd Edition AD&D rpg club:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3361 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 10/30/00 3:44 am
I decided to fudge DND 3rd Edition with Terry Brook's Shannara series which involved a LOT of rules changing. I had to forcibly stop the dwarf from going on a destructive rampage through Paranor though...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3362 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/30/00 8:36 am
My campaign world is a home grown one I developed in the latter half of the 80s. It is culturally and politically based on 11th-12th century England, with a few tidbits from other medieval cultures and fantasy elements where appropriate. It is low power, low magic, low money. Although players are free to raise as high as they want (if they are human), they are pretty well known and respected by 3rd level.

I strive hard for continuity in my campaign. The events going on in the campaign today were set in motion years ago by other characters in other scenarios. What players do make a differnce, and my world evolves based on characters actions. It is an organic, character based setting. (BTW, I use 2nd edition rules).

Currently, the campaign is taking place in a large city. The city used to be the seat of the Queen, but since it sits on the border with a rival nation, the Queen has relocated her court to an inland city that is safer. The retinue she left behind rules the city well, but crime has grown. The local thieve's guild has grown enormously in power and rules the underground. It is probably equal in power to the infrastructure the Queen left behind.

This is the home city of one of the PCs. He is currently chasing down his former mentor, who killed his father in an argument over a magical sword. This NPC is a real nefarious character and has crossed some of the wrong people. Via his former involvement with a traitorous sect in the Outer Planes, the Harmonium (see Planescape campaign) has put a price on his head. One of the other PCs is a teifling bounty hunter who has joined up with the vengeance seeking PC to hunt this NPC down. The NPC, of course, has allied himself with the powerful thieve's guild, making the PCs actions precarious at best.

Does that all make sense or have I lost some of you? It is kind of involved.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3363 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/30/00 11:33 am
Homebrew world, sort of a falling Roman Empire nation with a strong Yakuza presence (don't ask). There are two elven nations the Empire is trying to squash. The PCs helped forge an alliance between one elven nation and an imperial province seeking to break away. They were supposed to be a critical force in the eventual battle between Provincial and Imperial armies.

Instead, NPC maneuverings have set off a civil war. The PCs missed the battle between their allies and one group claiming the imperial throne because they were off hiding the the jungle... the priestess of Eilistrae decided kidnapping two noble infants of a leading drow household was a good idea. When they realized there was a fighting force of 250 drow on the way, they ran (sensibly). In the process, they have managed to introduce steel and the inclined plane to the Aztec-esque jungle gnomes, touching off a gnomish holy war (the tribe that met the PCs mistook two PCs as avatars of their gods (because of things the PCs did with no prompting from me!), so they think they're a "Chosen People")

So now I'm starting up a new story arc which will probably involve the PCs as sort of Mission: Impossible operatives in the civil war.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3362 by Umbratikus

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Message 3364 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering Calitrojan
10/30/00 1:50 pm
I have had two campaign worlds in my DMing career. One I used for the last 5 years or so. Th eother we are switching to this weekend, for our switcht o the 3rd Edition.

My original world revolved around the idea that humans were once enslaved by elves, but eventually broke that bond and rose to their status of a free race. There was a lot of racial tension, I cannot count the times and elf or human slew their friends over an imagined slight... if I ever had a problem with a high level PC it was solved simply by inventing some plot that caused minor harm to his opposing race.

My new campaign world deals a lot with religous differences, with four rival religions that will be violently turne don one another soon after the campaign starts. I also have a few terrorist organizations running around. Our groups enjoys this stuff, it gives them a lot of room to roleplay and a lot of time to be in combat against someone their charcter feels very strongly against.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3365 of 6727 Reply

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 10/30/00 2:48 pm
I have possibly got the most hack and slash group ever. They are complaining that I have "too much plot in my adventures" and that they want to get back to "dungeon crawling we the only thing we had too think about was how the hell we would kill 28 gnolls". The "difficult to figure out" plot of my adventure currently is that they have to kill a load of bandits. NOTHING ELSE!! Their idea of finding the bandits was to ride along with a wagon until they attacked! One player is a serious MunchKING who tried to buy magical chain mail to start off with ("Its on the list so why can't I buy it?") and wanted to wield a warhammer in each hand. They have trouble getting round the fact that their characters might not have as their ultimate aim to get so rich they can buy their own city. Any suggestions to how to get these people started on those "difficult" concepts of "characterisation" and that they might want some plot in there somewhere? I have nearly given up on the plot and I might just get rid of any storyline that has lingered and shove in 28 gnolls to keep them happy.


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Message 3366 of 6727 Reply

Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/30/00 3:00 pm
Punch out Goose! Eject! Eject! Eject!

Seriously though I've been there but with individuals players, not so much with a group. My trick with those kind of players is to turn the focus of the story on them. Instead of having the players look for the bandits, have the bandits look for the players. This way they don't have to find the adventure, the adventure is crammed down their throats... which is maybe what your players want.

Just remember it isn't worth it if you aren't enjoying it. Being a good DM is a tremendous service to players, but it usually isn't fulfilling unto itself unless you can get into the story.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3365 by sneakabout2

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Message 3367 of 6727 Reply

Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/30/00 3:28 pm
Ooooh. You are in deep doo-doo. A group like that is hard to change. They probably get pissed at you for being stingy with the treasure, too.

Don't know where to go from there. You could generate a plot that is full of fighting to appease them, and then have this incredible plot twist in the end that the players can't help but ignore. In this plot twist, the PCs get their but kicked because they haven't been paying attention to the plot line going on around them. To be most effective, this plot twist should do two things: 1) be an "a-ha" moment for them, when suddenly they realize what was underlying all the hacking and slashing they were doing: the plot is suddenly revealed to them in blazing glory.
2) the players start to kick themselves because they realize that if they had payed attention to the underlying plot, (started asking themselves why were these gnolls in this abandoned crypt, things like that), then they would have avoided their demise and probably gotten quite rich in the process.

Here is an example:
The PCs discover an ancient crypt. They start exploring the crypt finding it full of gnolls, hobgoblins, orcs, etc. The humanoids are well armed, giving the PCs plenty to keep them busy hacking and slashing. There is also plenty of treasure in the crypt. Finally they get to the end of the adventure and they meet a half-orc shaman who has just completed unleashing a demon or something, something so powerful that the PC's will have a VERY hard time winning the battle. All exits are sealed, so they can't retreat. Suddenly they find another small group of gnolls and orcs that are also fighting with the PCs instead of against them. Then suddenly they might realize that they should have stopped to question why the humanoids were in an ancient crypt, why they were all working well together, and why they weren't taking the treasure. It was because they were hunting down this shaman to try and prevent him from unleashing this demon into the world. What the PCs have done is sealed their own fate by not paying attention. What they needed to do was find out why they were there and help them. Now they will probably die, and it is their own faults. Again, don't make the demon so powerful that it is impossible to beat, but if they win, they should be feeling really lucky.

They can't really complain because you gave them what they wanted, while maintaining a plot structure. Some of the PCs might get the hint that if they begin to pay attention to plot, then they might have an easier time getting through the adventure, especially if you make a number of adventures like this one.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3365 by sneakabout2

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Message 3368 of 6727 Reply

Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 10/30/00 4:26 pm
Good suggestions by Ubermosher and Umbratikus. Another simpler plot which might help with real dullards is to have somebody (seemingly good) have them go and get some strange (non-combat) magical gee-gaw. On the way out of town to the dungeon, some blind soothsayer warns them of impending doom. The dungeon its located in is full of monsters and traps and is a real challenge. This item is cursed for those who remove it from its place of hiding (an item of monsterous attention). but when they give it to their sponsor he then uses it to bring about all sorts of potitical turmoil.
Now the Pc's find that nobody will sell them anything not even food, lodgings or ale and they spend a few miserable nights out in the rain hungry. They see that their former employer now has lots of Nazi SS style troops (perhaps outerplanar) loading children into wagons to go and work in a mine and people everywhere are hungry and homeless as these troops burn and pillage everything.

And its all because they did not see the underlying plot.

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millennium.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3365 by sneakabout2

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Message 3369 of 6727 Reply

A History of Britain Ima_Doppleganger
10/30/00 4:51 pm
A History of Britain

The History Channel Mon Oct 30 10:00 PM
Limited Series/Documentary, 150 Mins.
Prehistoric Britons in Skara Brae; invasion by the Romans; William the Conqueror's 1066 victory; the Anglo-Norman empire.


Original Airdate: October 30, 2000.

This Show will air for one hour for three nights.

Now, while TV shows should not take the place of books, I have always felt that shows like this add a flavor to a game design.
Ima


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Message 3370 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering(LONG!!!!) ubermosher63
(28/M/NJ, Exit 34) 10/30/00 5:29 pm
My campaign world is a more of a creative outlet for me... running games there is kind of a biproduct.

My world is a mostly original world (There is a Waterdeep in my world among other borrowed ideas, hey I have to justify buying all those resources somehow) that I've been developing for about 10 years now and has heavy Tolkien/Robert Jordan influences.
The basic hook of the world involves the arrival of a race of Planar Outsiders arriving at a time after dragons ruled the world but before human/demihuman/humanoid races appeared. They were known as Travellers and had tremendous powers and were able to contact gods from other worlds (or crystal spheres in ol' TSR-speak)and open portals between dimensions. This they did for learning, enlightenment, and as their name implies, it was in their nature. At the height of their civilization they had concentrated their race's life essence into the Solarri Nimbas (Crystal of the Soul) and used it as a focus to empower their greatest creation.
To make a long story short (I know, too late) they opened a portal to the wrong Super God named Na'ar who tried to destroy the world. They used the Crystal to imprison this god. Na'ar dark allies corrupted the Crystal with Na'ar's essence and destroyed the crystal, ostensibly to free the god. Instead it trapped him here (ala the Dark One from Jordan) and caused a cataclysm that destroyed the Travellers and broke the planet.
The essence of the Crystal filtered to the earth and that essence is the Divine Spark that gives a sentient being its "soul". The races came forth, and the fantasy world is born.
Now the forces of good and evil are searching for the Shards of the Crystal as it is believed by both sides that if its reforged by the forces of evil, the King of Darkness will be able to free himself and promptly destroy said fantasy world.

My current group of PC's have unwittingly discovered a key to a legendary ark that holds a Shard. Many people are after it, and have caused the PC's great harm in the process. The campaign at this point is one of discovery (why is everybody trying to kill us, and hey what does this crystal key open?). The pc's suspect and are now trying to find a loremaster (see my swamp questions) to confirm their suspicions. We'll see what they do when they learn for sure.

Sorry for the long post, if anybody wants more background info on the world including World Hook reasons behind gods, wizard magic vs. sorcerer magic, politics, etc., I'll be happy to send you a word document.
Email me at jgray63@yahoo.com

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3371 of 6727 Reply

Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! madpoet418
(28/M/Portland, OR) 10/30/00 5:29 pm
My suggestion involves three steps:

1) Give them what they want (sort of). Drop the bandit idea or lead it quickly into a heavy combat (i.e. dungeon) setting. Populate the dungeon with encounters of various levels but make sure to include some that will slaughter your party or send them running for cover. These tough encounters should use good strategy and always chase the PCs until the chase becomes impossible or the PCs die.

2) Hint, perhaps between sessions, that some of these creatures can be destroyed by certain means. Also, make available several sources of information on dungeon layouts and population that will help the players use better strategy to survive the tougher encounters. Mention that a few minutes of research might save the PCs a lot of heartbreak (or buttkick) later.

3) The research process should demand good characterization. If your players know that talking to the old Dwarven veteran will give them a hack and slash advantage, they may take the time to gain his trust. Of course, gaining his trust might not be easy for a band of barbaric murderers! Once the party gets used to a little role playing between bloodbaths, you might be able to get the plots going again (heavy with combat of course).

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3365 by sneakabout2

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Message 3372 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering madpoet418
(28/M/Portland, OR) 10/30/00 6:12 pm
Ambassador Thirn, an evil politico from the mainland, has been meddling in the affairs of Myst Isle since the end of the first island wars. The Isle is mostly tribal with two major settled civilizations: the elves and humans. These two fought in the last war and there is still a lot of racial tension. Now Thirn's miners have discovered a new metal deposit on the island. Gerard (the new metal) is very rare and adds some interesting advantages to weapons and armor made out of it. Thirn has decided to capture the island and use it as his remote base for a war on the mainland.

On the run from the law because of a failed mission of thievery, the PCs stumbled across a hidden village where elves, humans, and even a few monster races live in peace. The place is ruled justly by a fallen paladin named Lord Longview. Longview was Thirn's champion before he learned of the ambassador's evil plans. In choosing to leave without confronting Thirn, Longview dishonored himself and is now a bandit king and Thirn's most powerful enemy on the island.

Longview's palace, built ages ago by dwarves and humans, sits on top of a vast dungeon. The paladin had to clear out the current levels and cap the dungeon with a magical gate that keeps the baddies from pouring out. It is said that the dungeon eventually leads to the underdark.

The PCs have spent the last three sessions clearing out dungeon levels to make themselves quarters. They install new gates as they go and are hoping that the more powerful dungeon minions or underdark residents will help fight off Thirn's forces on the surface. They do not realize that the next dungeon level contains a dimensional portal that leads to the mainland.

I could go on and on: mainland politics; the lantern archon and imp who are serving two PCs (and playing ethics games with all of them); etc.
But this is mega-long already.

-Scott

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3373 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering cplchaotic
(29/M/Wheeling, WV) 10/31/00 8:37 am
I am running theives campaign. The players are members of a guild. It's been pretty good so far.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3374 of 6727 Reply

Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 10/31/00 2:16 pm
Cool idea! They are currently 1st level so I have decided to go for traps OVERDRIVE! i.e. in quite a small bandit's headquarters there are 10 traps all of which quite capable of killing if not all of the party a fair amount and so forcing them to think if not characterise or die. I have included: 1 rolling stone, 1 gravity trap, 1 crossbow trap, 1 cave-in trap, 2 pit traps, 1 mountain lion trap, 1 Sepia Snake Sigil trap, 1 poison dart trap and one trap which wont hurt them but means that if they don't think then they won't get ANY of the cash which I had promised them. (NYAHAHAHAHAHA!) Another nice one is that they can (technically) be up against a Lvl 11 elven wizard. They are going to be picking bits of adventurer off the wall for weeks!!!!!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3368 by orgruff

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Message 3375 of 6727 Reply

Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sargon_Starblade
(25/M/San Diego, Ca) 10/31/00 3:19 pm
An idea that I use to get PC's into thinking instead of hack and slash is, in their hacking and slashing they kill someone who seems evil. however he was the figurehead that would have one day become a hero and stopped some great catastrophe from happening and now the burden of that falls on the PC's. it is a very general idea but 75% of the time it seems to work.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3374 by sneakabout2

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Message 3376 of 6727 Reply

Re: HELP!!!!! Be Careful Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 10/31/00 3:40 pm
Be careful. The idea here isn't you against the PCs. You certainly don't want to be labeled as a "killer DM." You need to carefully work with your players' play styles to try and gently move them over into your camp. Give them the fighting they want, but make sure they realize in no uncertain terms that if they focus more on the plot, they will have an easier time and greater longevity, and ultimately greater satisfaction from the game.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3374 by sneakabout2

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Message 3377 of 6727 Reply

Re: Just Wondering Soviet2001
(18/M/Cincinnati, OH) 11/1/00 3:03 pm
We have just started a 3e campaign in a world I had created a while ago as a creative outlet. It's a highly-detailed world, I think... I have practically volumes and volumes of papers detailing the world and people, ranging from a medieval Japanese state to Arabia and a fragmented Holy Roman Empire sort of nation (great for political intrigue.) Since we started the 3e campaign, though, my PCs are adventuring in the northern reaches of the main continent, which are usually covered by ice of course (except the area surrounding this one city they must defend, because of druidic magics.) At any rate, they must defend the city from power-hungry nobles, and the armies of a "long-dead" sorceress queen who once commanded legions of Arctic monsters. Standard stuff, I suppose, but the PCs are ultimately in search of a shard of the fire crystal that had been placed in the center of the world to foster life and prevent the Darkness from encroaching on the world (I did borrow the Dark One idea from WoT, seals and all.)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3358 by messiah_of_metal

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Message 3378 of 6727 Reply

Re: HELP!!!!! Be Careful sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 11/1/00 4:22 pm
They actually ASKED for a difficult adventure and so I gave them one - If they don't want to characterise or follow the plot then they will have to think about every step they take.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3376 by Umbratikus

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Message 3379 of 6727 Reply

Hi all dm_matt2000
11/1/00 10:04 pm
Just joined up and wanted to say hi,

thanks Matt


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Message 3380 of 6727 Reply

adventure ideas wanted dm_matt2000
11/1/00 10:13 pm
I have just started running a third edition campaign but now I have started I have found myself stuck for ideas. any ideas suitable for low level characters would be welcome and apriciated.

thanks Matt.


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Message 3381 of 6727 Reply

Re: adventure ideas wanted Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/2/00 9:13 am
Depends on the nature of your campaign and the playing style of your players. When stuck for ideas, I usually turn to my stack of Dungeon Magazines. I haven't looked, but I imagine the newer Dungeons would have some low level 3e adventures. The WotC website has a couple as well.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3380 by dm_matt2000

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Message 3382 of 6727 Reply

Re: adventure ideas wanted dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 11/2/00 9:22 am
I've always found Wilderness/Town adventures more suited to the lower levels and very good for initial character building/roleplay than throwing them down in a dank dungeon....

DKUK

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/dungeonsndragonsarchive

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3380 by dm_matt2000

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Message 3383 of 6727 Reply

Re: Hi all madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 11/3/00 12:40 pm
Welcome aboard, dm_matt!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3379 by dm_matt2000

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Message 3384 of 6727 Reply

High Mastery? thorun09
(27/M/Blue Island) 11/5/00 11:53 am
Im looking for ideas to present a stubborn barbarian, on his solo quest to achieve high mastery. Usually to gain mastery and above, our group sets up a quest to accomplish something before being trained.
He is located in a coastal city Algahon, and has some problems with a bad attitude in roleplaying.


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Message 3385 of 6727 Reply

Well Met All ao_the_overlord
(40/M/Forgotten Realms) 11/5/00 6:12 pm
Im Looking For Forgotten Realms DMs to Become the FR Gods. Im try to get a on line game going where us DMs play the Gods has NPCs its a way for us DMs to have some fun. The DMs that play Gods Of war try to trash the place and the DMs that play Gods of Peac try to stop the wars and so on and you has DMs can draw us others for your off line game. If you like to try or find out more Email me

ao_the_overlord@yahoo.com

PS= I have a lot of D&D AD&D stuff any and all can ask me for help i know i will need help Cuzz of 3rd Ed comeing out now THANKS "AO"


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Message 3386 of 6727 Reply

Re: High Mastery? jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/6/00 12:57 am
ever see Conan the Barbarian??...he had to learn the Riddle of Steel

Id make the quest a philosophic one...
The Barbarian in my game has a quest to learn what it it to be a great warrior. She cannot return to her village until she discovers the answer.

There was an old martial arts movie..the concept was by Bruce Lee but he did not star in it...called the silent Flute...the contest was to attain the secret of enlightenment that resided in the top of a high tower...it was the original plot for game of death...anyway the hero fought his way to the top past several nasty warriors and at the top he opens the chest to get the secret and finds only a mirror that reflects back his own face...get it? The secret lies within yourself.

Maybe its time for the player with the negative attitude to get a lesson in humility...
give him a task or create a scenario where his attitude will prevail then a serious consequence occurs...Ever read the origin of Spider man? he doesnt care about fighting crime and lets a bank robber go, who then eventually kills his uncle.

I hate players with negative attitudes...they are no fun...I'm glad I have none in my own game.

.02 worth
J

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3384 by thorun09

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Message 3387 of 6727 Reply

Kidnapping Calitrojan
11/6/00 2:33 pm
Anyone have good ideas on kidnapping adventures... how to run them, good plot twists, etc?


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Message 3388 of 6727 Reply

Re: Kidnapping SCA_Bard
(24/F/Barony of Storvick) 11/6/00 3:31 pm
NEVER kidnap in front of the PCs.

My old GM was very fond of the kidnap plot. And every time he tried it, we foiled it before the victim could be abducted. The only times it worked was when the kidnapping took place in our absence, and we were summoned to deal with it (or learned of it on our own, or whatever).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3387 by Calitrojan

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Message 3389 of 6727 Reply

City Building bort11
11/6/00 7:10 pm
Does anyone know of a good web site that I can down load maps and layouts for cities, buildings, etc? Especially with a good sewer system.


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Message 3390 of 6727 Reply

Re: City Building Calitrojan
11/6/00 8:57 pm
Campaign Cartographer is good for cities. Their site has a pretty good set of sample cities and dungeons and what not. www.profantasy.com

Check it out

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3389 by bort11

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Message 3391 of 6727 Reply

New member, sayin hello! fantaseum
(24/M/Newport News, VA) 11/6/00 9:09 pm
Hiya, just thought I'd drop in and say hello. I'm out looking for resources and promoting my website (http://www.fantaseum.com). Any Core Rules 2 CD-ROM users in here? Good to see such a large community here in yahoo. I'll be in and out over the next few days gettin into the conversation.


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Message 3392 of 6727 Reply

Re: Kidnapping Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/7/00 7:58 am
I ran an adventure last year where the PCs were kidnapped. They were exposed to a poison gas that put them all asleep (no saving throw, heh, heh. Probably wouldn't work on elves). They awoke together in a dungeon cell, stripped down to their undergarments. They had to A) find a way out of the cell. B) Find or improvise weapons. C) find all of their equipment, which was disbursed throughout the stronghold (misc magic in the wizard's lab, weapons in the armory, unique and special items on the person of one of the enemy leaders, etc). D) Escape alive.

It was a fun adventure, even though they didn't find all of their old equipment. It would also be a good way to relieve the PCs of some of their magic items if you as a DM have allowed them to get too many. The kidnappers could have sold off some of the stuff before the PCs awake. (Yes, I know this is cruel, but such is the life of a DM).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3387 by Calitrojan

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Message 3393 of 6727 Reply

Re: City Building Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/7/00 8:15 am
Yep, Cali is right. Profantasy.com has the most downloadable city maps I know of. Even if you don't have the Campaign Cartographer software, you can save the sample maps as .bmp files, although they are small.

Other than that, just search the web. A lot of DMs have put their campaign info on a website, and you can download some maps.

I just uploaded a couple of citymaps that I had on my hard drive here at work. They are in the photo section. The Seawharf map is one I downloaded from Profantasy.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3389 by bort11

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Message 3394 of 6727 Reply

Re: New member, sayin hello! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/7/00 8:23 am
Welcome fantaseum. Nice website.

PS Yes I am a CR2 user.


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Message 3395 of 6727 Reply

That guy who always wants to be a Ranger Calitrojan
11/7/00 9:53 am
Well, I have a new problem... not to sound like a neophyte struggling with difficult players, because I am not nor are they... mos tof the time.

I have a player who has decided to play a ranger... he also makes it real difficult on me by never wanting to go into dungeons... I like dungeons for various reasons... wilderness adventures are fine, but a nice dungeon now and then can't be beat.

Anyway, other than killing his ranger, which in our last campaign one of the other players took care of that... with absolutely no prodding by me, how do I get him to quit being so difficult about going into dungeons... I get a lot along the lines of "I am a ranger I like open spaces, not the underground." To make matters worse he is an elf. I despise elves!


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Message 3396 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra burdockthistleknot
(28/F) 11/7/00 10:11 am
If he does not want to play, that is his choice. The entire campaign cannot be structured around him. If his character chooses to wait outside the dungeon entrance, then let him do it. He will be extremely bored sitting there all night. I have played with several ranger characters that had a lot of fun in a dungeon. As the DM, you can't let one player ruin it for everyone else. I say let him sit and wait outside the dungeon entrance. I guess I am a mean DM.


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Message 3397 of 6727 Reply

Re: Well Met All burdockthistleknot
(28/F) 11/7/00 10:49 am
I think that sounds like a spectacular idea, and I would like to get involved with that. I have played and DMed for about 10 years. I've played several characters in the Realms, but have yet to DM in that setting. Let me know if you are still looking for people.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3385 by ao_the_overlord

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Message 3398 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra Jiriki13
(31/M/Chicago area) 11/7/00 12:23 pm
Well, the first thing I have to ask is why are they going into this dungeon. Maybe a creature that resides in the dungeon is destroying the wilderness or the inhabitants of the wilderness that this ranger is supposed to love and protect. The ranger, especially an elven ranger, would almost have no choice but to venture into the dungeon to avenge the creature and wilderness he/she so dearly loves. If the player still refuses, then an experience penalty would definitely be in order along with a vision/sign from this ranger's deity letting the character know that this is not acceptable behavior from a nature loving elven ranger. If the elven ranger persists on not entering the dungeon after all of these penalties and signs, then the diety would just revoke all of his ranger abilities until he/she repents/atones for his unacceptable behavior.
Again, the basis for all of these penalties would be directly related as to why they were venturing into the dungeon in the first place. The elven ranger maybe right if there is no reason for him/her to be going into the dungeon. I am a ranger and I like open spaces, not the underground; does not constitute a good reason under any circumstances. We all have to do things that we don't enjoy more often than not in life. The point is to give the character a reason to go into the dungeon.

Well, I hope I didn't bore everyone and I hope I helped somewhat.

Dave

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3395 by Calitrojan

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Message 3399 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/7/00 5:56 pm
you are exactly correct...
the key element is having a STORY...
Its ok if he is playing his character...An Elf Ranger logically would hate going underground...but with a good reason it could be a dramatic story.

Otherwise...if he is being a contrary player..let him sit outside and get no experience and no treasure. I agree with that also.

Jojutsu
The not bored and not mean DM

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3398 by Jiriki13

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Message 3400 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/8/00 9:56 am
It seems like you have your answer already. The only problem is the "Ranger-must-go-in-dungeon-to eliminate-threat-to-forest" gimmick can only be used so often, or it will become trite and cliche. Besides, IIRC, the ranger is not only a protector of the forest, but of people as well, hence his good alignment. Just because he prefers the forest setting, doesn't mean he shouldn't adventure in uncomfortable environments for the sake of overall good. If he refuses regularly, you could warn him that his alignment is coming into question, and do like the others say and let him sit outside and wait on the others.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3395 by Calitrojan

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Message 3401 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra Calitrojan
11/8/00 4:08 pm
AS I had said, I was hoping not to come off as neophyte with a difficult player. I actually planned on putting his alignment into question on our next session when the kidnapping occurs...

I really will be going witht he whole stay outside and wait then tactic, as I cannot tailor every adventure for the ranger to be happy.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3400 by Umbratikus

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Message 3402 of 6727 Reply

Cavers sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 11/9/00 3:43 am
Why not just make sure that he chooses a Dwarven Ranger next time? Cavers (As the 3rd Edition tells us they are called) LOVE caverns and some have to be persuaded to leave them. Fortunately they have a duty to the surface woodlands too.


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Message 3403 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/9/00 4:21 am
While he's sitting outside tending the horses, you could have him encounter the kidnappers (who, having detected the rest of the party inside the dungeon, are using a handy back exit) and either become one of the kidnapped or dead .. hopefully the player will realize it's usually stupid for the party to split up, and think twice about not wanting to go into those nasty dark caves.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3401 by Calitrojan

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Message 3404 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/9/00 8:41 am
Good idea, Gaijin, but my premise remains the same. If the adventures are of the good-adventures-trash-evil variety, then as an agent of good, the ranger should undertake them or suffer alignment alteration and loss of ranger abilities.

Now if it is a role playing issue where the PC in question is claustrophobic, then the problem becomes an interesting springboard for all kind of positive things (although it could still be annoying).

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3403 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 3405 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra Calitrojan
11/9/00 9:51 am
I had not considered kidnapping him as well. I am already going over the logistics of this.

A lot of good ideas being generated here. Thanks everyone.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3404 by Umbratikus

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Message 3406 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra Sargon_Starblade
(25/M/San Diego, Ca) 11/9/00 8:16 pm
Another idea is travleing over ground or mountian side and the ground gives way beneath the pary most will be injured, but look now everyone is in the dungeon and the exit is to far up and at a reverse inclined angle for even a thief to get to. Ropes won't reach, no one in the party has the spider climb spell, etc.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3405 by Calitrojan

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Message 3407 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/10/00 12:07 am
Before even rolling up characters I had a meeting with my players...basically I told them this:
Roleplaying is GREAT...but DO NOT conceive of a character that is seperate from the group or who is not good, or who does not want to cooperate and adventure. Everyone will be a group and adventure together and you can roleplay within those parameters PERIOD. I am a great fan of role play but there is not enough time in one game to spend on someone who is being contrary and wants to go off on their own.

So in addition to warping the adventure to try and manipulate someone like that into playing right, I say SET THE PLAYERS EXPECTATIONS correctly from square one and outside the game just tell them to play differently or don't play...remember...it is YOUR game...they come to you for fun and creative enjoyment...you are not there to be the players DM B_tch if you get my drift. Tell that Ranger to straighten up and fly right!

Jojutsu
The Non dealing with contrary players DM

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3400 by Umbratikus

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Message 3408 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra burdockthistleknot
(28/F) 11/10/00 6:16 am
I agree wholeheartedly. You sound alot like my first DM. The point of playing is just what it sounds like. fun. A player who wants all of the DMs attention at the expense of other players enjoyment shouldn't be there at all.

Burdock
The Mean and Also Not Dealing With Contrary Players DM

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3407 by jojutsu82

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Message 3409 of 6727 Reply

Darkvision jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/12/00 2:55 pm
Another topic for debate...

Darkvision is different from infra-vision as described under the new rules...a character with infravision sees heat so a warm body is red colored...thus negating hide in shadows...darkvision is described as looking "black and white" in the new rules...so wouldn't hide in shadows work against creatures with dark vision as opposed to infravision?
What do you guys think?
My fist inclination is that it would work.
opinions?


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Message 3410 of 6727 Reply

Re: Darkvision Calitrojan
11/12/00 4:13 pm
Thus far in our camapaign we have had a few creatures with darkvision (i.e. one orc encounter). In that encounter the halfling rogue hid in the shadows to sneak around on the orcs and delivered a crippling blow with his crossbow from 25 ft out. The orcs did not see them, because darkvision acts the same as regular vision, only giving sight in black and white. The DM's guide goes over the issue pretty well... even giving a brief description of a character looking around a dungeon using darkvision.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3409 by jojutsu82

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Message 3411 of 6727 Reply

Re: Darkvision orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 11/12/00 6:10 pm
Concur.

I have to admit I like this change from infravision as it was confusing and lots of individual groups had house rules that worked fine but were incompatable with other groups house rules. I have even had players at conventions ask how I ran infravision. It was one of the first questions asked.

IMO darkvision clears up an untidy complicated mess. It is however a major rule change and may confuse when uninformed people pass it off as infravision.

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millennium

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3410 by Calitrojan

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Message 3412 of 6727 Reply

Re: That guy who always wants to be a Ra mstrauss3
11/12/00 11:54 pm
Another solution to the problem,could be to send something at the character while he is by himself. Something he could not possably defeat by himself, but had he been with the rest of the group they could have defeated the monster together easily. I realize this is harsh but if the character survies or not it will remind the character that as a team the characters are stronger than seperated. It is also a not so subtle hint that his constant choice to not participate is less than appriciated.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3395 by Calitrojan

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Message 3413 of 6727 Reply

Re: Darkvision Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/13/00 9:15 am
Does anybody here remember back in the late 70s when there was Ultravision? Whereas Infravision worked on the infrared spectrum, great for underground, ultravision worked on the ultraviolet spectrum, great for outdoors at night. I don't remember whether this was the Basic Set (blue box/red dragon) or prior to this.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3409 by jojutsu82

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Message 3414 of 6727 Reply

Re: Darkvision jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/13/00 10:00 am
Oh yes..I remember ultravision...very well

I agree this rule change is very positive...
But I'm still keeping infravision around in my game..esp for some nasty subterranean predators.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3413 by Umbratikus

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Message 3415 of 6727 Reply

Munchkinism! sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 11/13/00 3:38 pm
My players are die-hard munchkins! I just reasised that the one who rolls up 100 players on the computer generator was the best - the other just admitted that he faked hi scores using his classic ' roll 4d6 and discard lowest 10 times and discard the lowest 4 to get 18,18,17,16,15,14 for stats' - any ideas for how to stop this score rolling stuff?


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Message 3416 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/13/00 4:03 pm
use the point system in the new DM guide
you buy stats...all start at a base of 8
you get 25-35 points (dms choice)
cost is...
1:1 up to 14
2:1 15-16
3:1 17+

I use that for my game...my players all have above average stats but no super heroes...i think its good because it gives them a little room to grow and you can make whatever kind of character you want.

The down side...I have the UGLIEST group in town as they all took low charismas to make their other stats better...oh well..*sigh*

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3415 by sneakabout2

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Message 3417 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! drowdude
(23/M/Fayetteville, NC) 11/13/00 4:52 pm
I feel that some people stress over the numbers too much. If you are running a solid game the PCs stats dont matter all that much...they are after all just numbers and it is having fun that counts. Also remember that the more powerful the PC the more powerful the opposition. If you have a powerful group you dont have to be afraid to use the 3E kobold sorcerer-king for fear of it annihilating your PCs. Basically I feel that everything is relative and fun rules all...dont stress over stats!!! Focus on making a fun and challenging game for all.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3415 by sneakabout2

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Message 3418 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 11/13/00 5:53 pm
Players always roll up a new character right in front of me to enter my campaign.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3415 by sneakabout2

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Message 3419 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 11/13/00 5:56 pm
It builds stress among players when such cheating is condoned. They wonder if he can do it, why can't I? And then there are others who would never cheat, and just carry a grudge against the cheater.. which invites player affairs interrupting in character affairs..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3417 by drowdude

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Message 3420 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! burdockthistleknot
(28/F) 11/13/00 6:16 pm
I have always either had my players roll a character in front of me when we started a campaign, or, if they had characters that they wanted to bring in, I had to review and approve of them first. I am not into munchkins, and will crush any that pop up in my campaign. Again, I am a mean DM!

Burdock
The Mean DM

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3415 by sneakabout2

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Message 3421 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! Sargon_Starblade
(25/M/San Diego, Ca) 11/13/00 9:26 pm
I tend to let the characters keep thier stats but stronly enforce Alngnment & Class restrictions for that character, Laws of the Land, Diety's influence (especially for blessing the Character with outragous stats), make the load of the party come down on the obvious leader, etc.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3415 by sneakabout2

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Message 3422 of 6727 Reply

Re: Kidnapping karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 11/14/00 8:42 am
I ran one game where the Parties thief was kidnapped by her brother.

Party thief was young vivacious elf Thief, Brother was racist War captain of elven citadel - going to marry his sister off to a Weaver (Very well respected by the elven people) . She had other ideas and ran away.

Caused all sorts of fuss when he came to get her (Party consisted of a Human Psionicist, Goblin Ftr (NPC) Human Druid, Human thief etc - Brother was not amused - gave sister ultimatum - Come peacefully or get all her friends killed.

Lots of fun resolving the issue . . .

Past events can be fun sometimes . . .

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3387 by Calitrojan

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Message 3423 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/14/00 8:47 am
Like Lee and Burdock, my players roll right in front of me. I use the 4d6, drop low method and they roll stats in order (first Strenth, then Con, etc.)

I am a kindly DM though, and if a player wants to play a particular class badly enough, but is lacking in his scores, I allow him to do one of two things:

1) swap any two scores to meet requirements
2) take points away from other scores to add to a prerequisite score at a 2:1 ratio, and only to meet required minimums for that class.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3415 by sneakabout2

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Message 3424 of 6727 Reply

LOOKING FOR OLD FRIENDS bzarr12
11/14/00 10:41 am
Hi, my name is Brian Salazar, and about 10-12 years ago I used to hang out with and game with a bunch of really cool people in the chicago suburban area. I stopped hanging around them, and lost contact. They were big time gamers, and I would imagine some still are. The group consisted of Mark (i think his last name was Loftus), his girlfriend Cathy, John Merrick, Jeff (can't remember last name, but he was in a wheelchair), two brothers: Eric and the younger one I can't remember, and Dan or Dave Henderson I think. Marc Loftus's family owned some movie theatres, and John and Marc were Studying Russian and Fencing at the collage of DuPage. That's about all I can remember. If anyone knows these people, or is one of them, please contact me at webmaster@bodysolid.com. I would really like to speak to this group again, and see what the past ten years has been like for them.



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Message 3425 of 6727 Reply

Re: LOOKING FOR OLD FRIENDS knightmare6
(23/M/Brooklyn, NY) 11/14/00 12:15 pm
Shii-yattt!!! Good luck there! You're like taking a very low chance of finding them, but I wish you success! :)

-K6

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/alltheplanescomecalling

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3424 by bzarr12

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Message 3426 of 6727 Reply

Thanks! sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 11/14/00 12:23 pm
Thanks for all the comments - one thing which I have tried was to swap their character with mine because they said that mine was as good as theirs. I will try to get them to roll them in front of me from now on.


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Message 3427 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 11/14/00 1:21 pm
Easy way to avoid Munchkinism is to sit with the players as they roll up and define hoe they will do it, otherwise sack the lot of them and find more players...


DKUK
http://www.geocities.com/dungeonkeeperuk


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Message 3428 of 6727 Reply

Re: City Building dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 11/14/00 1:23 pm
I have some details of City Building to download from my profile, you can find a link to it on my just now minimal WebSite..

DKUK
http://www.geocities.com/dungeonkeeperuk

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3389 by bort11

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Message 3429 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! germenevt
11/14/00 1:29 pm
Just don't stop it. In my campaign, I don't care how powerful the characters are. One of my players is a self confessed munchkin (DM: You munchkin! PC: Who are munchkins? DM: (explanation)
PC: Oh I want to be one!) But he didn't know that I follow the concept of "We are playing for the dramatic effects and the excitement of the setting". And with this concept, a good DM can IMHO throw the game balance out of the window and play with a party of Waldorfs.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3415 by sneakabout2

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Message 3430 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/14/00 1:40 pm
Sorry..I don't get it...what is Munchkinism??
Does that mean the PC's stats are too low or does it mean they cheated and rolled up a super-hero?

Jojutsu
The Ignorant

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3429 by germenevt

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Message 3431 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 11/14/00 5:50 pm
I'm pretty sure its creating superhero's. You basicly will not find a munchkin playing a standard PC class or race they all want to be drow bladesingers or minataur fighter-mages. They want to play paladins who can act in stipid and selfish ways, They want about +3 on every die they roll, they don't ever want their characters to get killed and they want to win. Its a stage of mindset that most players, go through before they settle down to become real role players or go off and play other games that they can win. Where the name comes from I have no idea.

Orgruff the opionionated.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3430 by jojutsu82

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Message 3432 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! mstrauss3
11/14/00 11:45 pm
I have to agree with some opinions here that fun is the name of the game. If some players want to roll super characters I will let them (with in reason). The scores must still conform to racial limits amd class requirments, but other wise I let them go with it. In some cases I find it easier to creat encounters for them that way because I know they can with stand more of a beating at lower levels. In some ways it is also to their disadvantage because we have discovered that at the middle levels, the things I have to throw at them to be challenging is more then they could handle some times (fortunatly the real roleplayers were there to pull their butts out of the fire). Somebody else also pointed out that most players go through this stage before becoming a real roleplayer and I would have to agree, having done so myself. My DM at the time still had to remind me that my character was still a half-elf, and although he was stronger than most giants (and some gods for that matter) My physical size limited me from doing somethings. I was strong enough to lift the tree but my size did not alow me to lift the whole thing in any usefull mannner other than just dragging it out of the way. Remember that the laws of physics still apply in some ways

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3431 by orgruff

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Message 3433 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/15/00 7:43 am
Well, I guess I will have to admit, I went through a munchkin stage as well. I had a half-elven fighter/magic-user/thief and I convinced the neophyte DM to let me have a Rod of Lordly Might at first level before we even started play. He rocked. In my real early days of playing I had a ranger with a girdle of storm giant strenghth AND gauntlets of ogre power. The 1st edition DM Guide said that these items could be combined, so we interpreted this to mean that my strength was 42/00, and I combined all strength bonuses from a 24 str and an 18/00 str. Hah. Megamunchkin.

Anyway, I guess I can't bitch about Munchkins any more.

Umbratikus the humbled

PS: this was almost 20 years ago and I've changed. Honest.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3432 by mstrauss3

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Message 3434 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 11/15/00 1:26 pm
The major munchkin in the party has now decided to have a go at DMing a campaign - Futuristic so that he can be a demolitions expert! He has decided that we will have out weapons do damage on how much description we can give them! (cue 3d20 stuff at Lvl 1) It gives me an insight into the Munchkin Mind...

In my campaign then I have decided to throw the book at them - The Monster Manual. If they pay no attention to plot or characterisation then they will get massacred. (heheheh) I cannot get rid of them because they are the only players availible but I do appreciate all the help!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3429 by germenevt

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Message 3435 of 6727 Reply

There be hope my fated friends. Calitrojan
11/15/00 4:45 pm
You of course realize, we go through this munchkin question every month or two. Occassionally we get new answers... but that is not what I am wanting to say... Every single time this munchkin thing comes a long there is someone who plays the game on a regular basis, but knows not what a munchkin be.

Hope in a new generation? Will munchikinism die out with the new rules? Why not; I mean now that every player has acces to all the classes and skills and feats and what not, is it not more important how you put your skills and feats and what not together than how strong you are? Doesn't this who thing offer a new dynamic htat makes every player morep owerful than the average bear, but makes every munchkin that much less of a demi-god?

So, by raising up the average character - and most of the monsters, we have leveled the playing field, so to speak. So, rejoice my friends, for every time someone asks, "What is a munchkin?" there must be at least ten others who have the same question but left their spokesman to do the asking.


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Message 3436 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 11/15/00 5:07 pm
"a good DM can IMHO throw the game balance out of the window and play with a party of Waldorfs"

Fair point, whats good for the goose is good for the gander as they say. If a world has super powered PC's knocking about why shopuldn't there be super powered goblins up every tree....

DKUK
www.geocities.com/dungeonkeeperuk

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3429 by germenevt

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Message 3437 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 11/15/00 5:11 pm
UMBRATIKUS!!! You....once a......munchkin...!
Ah it happens to the best of us, not me mind never had the chance, played for about 2 years and been DMing for the past 19ish years...

DKUK
www.geocities.com/dungeonkeeperuk

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3433 by Umbratikus

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Message 3438 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/16/00 12:28 pm
Okay, Andrew. Don't rub it in.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3437 by dungeonkeeperuk

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Message 3439 of 6727 Reply

Re: There be hope my fated friends. Soviet2001
(18/M/Cincinnati, OH) 11/17/00 1:37 pm
Maybe the reason that people using 3e won't know what a munchkin is is because 3e characters are inherently more munchkin-esque than your standard 2e munchkin?

I have never had a problem before with munchkins, and maybe it is because I haven't really come to grasp all the rules of 3e yet, but my players' 3e characters seem to just be naturally more capable of kicking bad guy (or good guy) arse.

Not that this is a problem, I guess, as it makes D&D more of a Fantasy RPG than it used to be, I suppose. But I just venture to say that maybe people won't know what a munchkin is, because everyone will be one.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3435 by Calitrojan

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Message 3440 of 6727 Reply

Re: There be hope my fated friends. madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 11/17/00 1:51 pm
I'm creating a Bag of Holding Psionicist/Monk as we speak.

I agree.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3439 by Soviet2001

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Message 3441 of 6727 Reply

Re: There be hope my fated friends. sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 11/17/00 2:10 pm
I totally agree - I myself almost ripped out the pages containing the magical feats because with a munchkin in the group then I knew that there was no hope of running a campaign with a 'normal' amount of magic. Some of the rules for magic are rediculous and I am using a meld of 2nd and 3rd edition rules for magic.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3439 by Soviet2001

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Message 3442 of 6727 Reply

Re: There be hope my fated friends. messiah_of_metal
(18/M/FL) 11/19/00 8:47 pm
Hey now... you gotta thnk for a second here. While all your PC's are getting bad ass feats, so are the bad guys. They get the same advantages with feats as your PC's do, and your NPC's are just as elgable of getting the same amount of feats as your PC's making them just as powerful. In the end it all balances out, and the feats do have restrictions. Like with Maximize Spell, you gotta cast the spell 3 lvls higher than it acualy is in order to work. So for a magiv missile to have an automatic full damage hit, you gotta cast a lvl 1 magiv missile as a lvl 4 spell... Balancing it all out! So I dont know what the problem is; In order to be a munchkin you gotta be a super powerful person for your lvl... and in 3e the monsters are just as powerful as the PC's... so its not a Munchkin Edition! BACK OFF!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3441 by sneakabout2

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Message 3443 of 6727 Reply

LOOK!!! spellmaster15
(17/M/York, PA) 11/19/00 10:49 pm
whats all this talk about munchkins? i'm a munchkin!!! i'm so damn short, i can't get my licensce cause i can't see over da steerin wheel!!!

anyway
hi all

Spellmaster15


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Message 3444 of 6727 Reply

Question about the paladins dolphin99it
(20/M/Bolzano - Italy) 11/20/00 7:13 am
Hello friends! Here I am, Luca, from Italy! ^_^

I have a nice question for you, expert DMs. One of my players thinks that can exist paladins of any LEGAL alignment. He says that the classic paladin is the legal-good one, but he's sure that an evil deity, such as Cyric in the Forgotten Realms, has some special followers of the legal-evil alignment: these are evil paladins, capable to extend the influence of his/her evil deity into the world.

I think he's wrong! A paladin is the defensor of law and justice, and also an helping hand for everyone who needs it! The most important thing is the goodness of the paladin, not the lawfulness!!!

What do you think? (mmm, I notice that my english isn't as good as some months ago! Maybe I've to do some exercises!!! ^_^)

Greetings,
-LUCA


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Message 3445 of 6727 Reply

Re: There be hope my fated friends. Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/20/00 8:50 am
A rose, by any other name, smells as sweet.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3439 by Soviet2001

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Message 3446 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/20/00 8:53 am
Luca,
You are right. Your friend is wrong.
A paladin, by definition (and I am speaking from a 2e perspective) must be Lawful Good. Sure there can be warriors dedicated to other philosophies, other than Law and Good, but they aren't paladins.

Umbratikus

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3444 by dolphin99it

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Message 3447 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins leeok31
(32/M/Catoosa, OK) 11/20/00 9:24 am
There was, at one time, something called an Antipaladin. Think it came out in Dragon many years ago..

But yeah, Paladins, Lawful Good. Of course, it's your game, I mean if you want to allow Paladins of another alignment, you're free to do so. And if you're not willing to allow it, you don't have to. Sometimes 'because I said so' works.. Or you could suggest he allow them in his campaign, cuz they don't exist in yours..

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3446 by Umbratikus

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Message 3448 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/20/00 9:52 am
Anti-Paladins are represented in the 3E rules by a Prestige class called Black Guard.

I personally think that allowing Paladins who are alignments other than Lawful Good sort of takes away from the Paladins mystique. If any good fighter can have Paladin powers, then why wouldn't they? I think a Paladin should be an ultimate force for justice...the powers they get are a direct manifestation of their rightousness/Lawful Goodness. I like that in the new rules they do not have to worship a specific diety like a Cleric does, but that's about as far as I would let it go.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3447 by leeok31

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Message 3449 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins dragon_lord_yu
(18/M/Belgrade,YU!) 11/20/00 10:16 am
Hi!I'm Zandro and I'm new here.I just saw your message dilemma and I have to say that I agree with the conclusion that Paladins represent the Law and Good,but,as for me,I think there,could, no,should be an antipaladin.(I wouldn'a call him like that,though. At least it would give the two classes a new possibility:they could have quests in which they hunt down his complete opposite.
That's what I think.Bye.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3448 by jojutsu82

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Message 3450 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/20/00 10:31 am
I agree...in a universe comprised of universal opposites the Anti-Paladin makes perfect sense.
You get more bang for your buck...a villian who is powered by ultimate evil. Make sure yours is Chaotic Evil and not Lawful Evil though.
The Power of Chaos (evil laugh)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3449 by dragon_lord_yu

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Message 3451 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins dragon_lord_yu
(18/M/Belgrade,YU!) 11/20/00 10:46 am
Now that's talking!I think that players should be given everything they want if it's fun and not too much trouble for the DM(and if it's the opportunity for the latter to torture the former)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3450 by jojutsu82

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Message 3452 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/20/00 12:48 pm
As a DM, you can create any character type you please, but keep in mind that a paladin, in the truest sense of the term, is the pinnacle of human goodness and lawfulness, period.

However it is concievable that there could be specialized fighters of all kind of persuasions. A powerful demon worshiping cult could have an anti-paladin type of character. If you are playing 1st or 2nd edition, you could create a kit for fighters, or even paladins, that would give the character the extra abilities of the anti-paladin class. There could also be Chaos Lords, that must be CN whose purpose is to promote chaos everywere. THey could have special abilities like 'detect law' or 'confusion' instead of 'detect evil' and 'lay on hands.' You could conceivably create a specialized fighter for each of the nine alignments, but this would get kind of hokey.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3451 by dragon_lord_yu

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Message 3453 of 6727 Reply

3E Skill Checks jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/20/00 1:27 pm
Craft skills:

If you have the CRAFT skill Locksmith, will it add anything to your Open Locks skill check?

If you have the Craft Trapmaking Skill, will it add anything to your chance to disable device (given that it is some type of trap)?

If so how much? If not then why not?

I didn't see anything specific in the PHB...I have an idea what I think is fair but interested in another opinion.
Jojutsu
The curious DM


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Message 3454 of 6727 Reply

Re: QUESTIONS ABOUT PALADINS dungeonkeeperuk
(30/M/Leeds, UK) 11/20/00 1:43 pm
I think someone said it before that you can have any class that you like, thats the beauty of the game. But I do agree with your friend that there should be "evil" paladins too, anyone remember the Anti-Paladin who first cropped up in a Dungeon magazine ohhhh so many years ago.
But saying that if you are the DM you go with what you are comfortablw with and what fits best into yuor world, after all you are their supreme God...

DK (Power Going To His Head) UK
http://www.geocities.com/dungeonkeeperuk

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3444 by dolphin99it

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Message 3455 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks pjerks
(34/M/NY) 11/20/00 1:44 pm
Good Question

The way I understand it, any CRAFT skill is the ability to MAKE something. I don't think there is an official rule, but if you know HOW to make something, it seems you must understand the mechanics of what you are making.

Therefore, I would suggest if you have 5 or more ranks in Craft Locksmithing, you should get a +2 synergy bonus to Open Locks, and such.

Paul

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3453 by jojutsu82

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Message 3456 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 11/20/00 1:55 pm
Hmmmm. Great questions, jojutsu. I've just spent my skill points for the 3e rogue I am creating and these questions didn't occur to me.

As DM, I would disallow the Craft (Locksmith) bonus to Open Locks as Open Locks is a cross-class skill available to every class. If you wanted Open Locks, it is available to you. Sounds like a cheesy way for a non-rogue to get a good Open Locks bonus without having to spend as many skill points. Why on earth would a pc *want* a Locksmith skill unless they wanted to pick locks??? That's like picking Profession: Short Order Cook. What a waste!

I would have to posit the same argument for Craft (trapmaking) v. Disable Device. Because a pc can build a good trap does not *necessarily* make him/er better at dismantling them. If you want to be proficient at both, buy the ranks in those two abilities.

Warrants some discussion.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3455 by pjerks

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Message 3457 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/20/00 2:04 pm
I agree..it does warrant some thought...
I thought the last post was fair...ie: 5 ranks in the craft = a +2 synergy bonus
Of course this raises the question why you would spend 5 points to get a +2 bonus when you could put the 5 points towards the open lock skill and get +5?
I suppose a craft may give you extra benefits as a craftman and make a more well rounded character.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3456 by madteuton

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Message 3458 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks vahjra
(26/F/North Dakota (at the mom) 11/20/00 2:11 pm
I think the crafts would possibly give the other skills a +2 synergy bonus like rope use gives escape artist or like bluff gives disguse. Just a thought.

vahjra

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3453 by jojutsu82

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Message 3459 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 11/20/00 2:13 pm
That's starting to make some sense to me. I've only just begun and admit I am barely familiar with the synergy considerations. I remember some mention of it in the PHB, but ... I've only just begun.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3458 by vahjra

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Message 3460 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks Soviet2001
(18/M/Cincinnati, OH) 11/20/00 3:33 pm
The way I see it is this:

Although knowing how to make a trap may not _necessarily_ make one better at getting around it (as any number of unknown variables might exist for any given trap), the converse should be true.

Knowing ways to get around and disarm traps should give insight into making better traps that cannot be so easily bypassed.

Anyway, I don't know if there are rules in 3e for this already, if there are then sorry to waste your time.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3459 by madteuton

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Message 3461 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks Cayzle
(37/Kingdoms and Honor) 11/20/00 7:46 pm
> Of course this raises the question
> why you would spend 5 points to get
> a +2 bonus when you could put the 5
> points towards the open lock skill
> and get +5?

Because you have already maxed out your open lock skill. Remember, the maximum rank you can have in a skill is 3 + character level (except for a few exclusive skills, for which the max rank is 3 + class level).

So a third level single-class rogue has max ranks in open locks of 3+3 = +6 on rolls.

If the same character also has locksmith 5, say, then max open locks goes to +8.

Plus possible dex plus possible masterwork tools plus possible skill focus feat -- if you really want to minimax it, you sure can!

Cayzle
http://www.geocities.com/cayzle

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3457 by jojutsu82

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Message 3462 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 11/21/00 11:06 am
I think Cayzle brings up a very good point about this. I think if you want to to max out one skill you have every right to. Obviously you couldn't do that with every skill. you would suffer on other skills because you have spent 5 ranks in a craft. so it all evens out in the end.

if your party has 2 rouges maybe one can max out his open locks and the other can max out disable device. then the party can get into anywhere. then to even it out, the DM just throws harder stuff at you. teaches you that it isnt always good to be able to open any door you get to!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3461 by Cayzle

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Message 3463 of 6727 Reply

Re: Munchkinism! karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 11/22/00 8:58 am
Make 'em roll up the character in front of you - Spoils their plans but what the hell.

(IO solved the problem by just upping the stats of the bad guys and monsters - a truly heroic game, it just upped the stakes - I found I didn't care if they had all 18's - they could still die just as easy if they screwed up - which they did - often !)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3415 by sneakabout2

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Message 3464 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/22/00 9:37 am
Although I am still living in the archaic 2nd edition, I (as always) have an opinion on the matter.

At first one could logically say that having intimate knowledge of how to construct something would make one better at dismantling said object. You might say that this is common sense.

On the other hand, Locksmithing is a skill. Opening locks is a skill. You could argue that all the knowledge of dismantling a lock that would be gained by having the Locksmithing skill is encompassed by the Open Locks skill. In other words, by having the Locksmithing skill, you would know no more about how to open locks without a key than you would know by having the Open Locks skill. Make sense? The same would go for traps.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3453 by jojutsu82

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Message 3465 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/22/00 9:57 am
I suppose there are 2 ways to look at it:
take it in a different context..I will use music for example:

1)I play a little guitar...but for knowing chords and such, I would have no clue how to go about making a guitar. Therefore my music skill does not help at all with the craft.

2) Once having learned how to make a guitar, its possible that knowing how one should sound would make me a better craftsman than someone who had never played.

Likewise...I am a martial artist of some skill...although I spent many years learning techniques they are based on Japanese systems...so when I took a kickboxing class, the techniques were alot different and my skill level was much lower...however...I was able to learn at a vastly more accelerated rate than the newbies because I had a background in karate.

I guess it could go either way. Its always just going to depend on the circumstances/character etc. I still think the +2 synergy for 5 ranks is the fairest I have seen. Unless something better comes up I'm going with that.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3464 by Umbratikus

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Message 3466 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 11/22/00 10:19 am
Hmmmm. I see what you are saying: Because one is skilled in locksmithing does not necessarily make him/er better with picking locks or, say, opening locks with a set of thieves tools. Interesting.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3464 by Umbratikus

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Message 3467 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks vahjra
(28/F/Missouri) 11/22/00 10:45 am
I have replied to this twice, and here i go again.....if you know how to make a lock, you know it's internal workings and therfor you should be able to pick the lock easier than someone who has never seen the inside of a lock. you would know where the right pieces and parts were and how to move them to open the lock.

i would agree that because you built guitars you couldnt play one any better, but i dont think that is a good comparison.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3466 by madteuton

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Message 3468 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 11/22/00 11:00 am
<>

Well, madam, no need to keep posting the same reply then. We are "discussing" the matter, as they call it.

Thank you though.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3467 by vahjra

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Message 3469 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/22/00 11:00 am
well allow me to elaborate then:

Picking locks = a skill
Playing Guitar = a skill

Locksmithing = a craft
Creating an Instrument = a craft

The analogy is Craft vs. a Skill

Many people builg guitars who cannot play them
Many locksmiths may create locks and keys but not know how to pick one like a thief.

given that a Guitar-smith actually plays guiter, could he craft a better one knowing what a musician knows? Probably

given that a Locksmith wants to pick a lock, could he do it better given his locksmith knowledge? Probably

So we both agree on the point, and I think my analogy is not perfect but close enough to get the point across.

At the risk of sounding rude, and I do not mean to be...nobody is forcing you to reply...simply reply if you want to or don't but no need to make it sound like such a burden..lol I respect everyone's opinion and this is just for fun when we are all supposed to be working..lol so calm down man...no stress...repeat after me..."no stress"...

Jojutsu
the Analyzer

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3467 by vahjra

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Message 3470 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 11/22/00 11:50 am
*LOL* We're supposed to be working? D'oh!

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3469 by jojutsu82

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Message 3471 of 6727 Reply

Re: 3E Skill Checks Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/22/00 2:15 pm
<>

Not only that, but anything a locksmith would know about opening locks would be covered by the Open Locks skill. There would be an overlapping of knowledge where knowing both skills might be desireable, it wouldn't give any special bonuses.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3466 by madteuton

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Message 3472 of 6727 Reply

The Slayer Too Strong? sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 11/22/00 4:44 pm
Beneath is the Slayer I was presented with... Now, in your opinion, is this class too powerful? If so, what could changed to lower the class' power? Thanks for the input...

Sanguinarius

*****

Slayer (Priest Sub-Class)

Ability Requirements: Strength 13, Wisdom 13
Prime Requisites: Strength, Wisdom
Races Allowed: All
Level Advancement As: Cleric

The slayer is a militaristic kind of priest dedicated to generally destroying evil and more particularly destroying the undead. They can be found in the ranks of many of the more aggressive good-aligned faiths, whether honored by humans or demi-humans. Since the undead are among the most fearsome and most evil creatures in existence, it takes a special breed to become a slayer. Some say suicidal inclinations help, but slayers themselves claim their vocation takes nerves of steel, a strong stomach, a stable mind, and a strong sword arm. Slayers can be of any non-evil alignment, except for chaotic neutral.

Slayers can wear any type of armor and use all types of shields and weapons. Their spell ability is relatively unimpressive as far as priest go. Slayers have major access only to all, necromantic, sun, and healing. They have minor access to divination and protection. Nevertheless, slayers have some impressive special abilities that make that well-suited to their main concern.

At 1st level, a slayer can detect undead in the same way that a paladin can detect evil. Obviously, slayers can turn undead. Also at 1st level, a slayer must select one weapon with which she is proficient. Thereafter, she attacks with that weapon as if a warrior, including multiple attacks at higher levels (although a slayer can never specialize with a weapon).

At 3rd level, a slayer can cast Invisibility To Undead and Remove Paralysis, once per day, in addition to her other memorized spells.
At 5th level, a slayer can cast Hold Undead and Negative Plane Protection, once per day, in addition to her other memorized spells.
As a slayer's ability to turn undead improves, she gains immunity to certain undead special attacks. Any undead that the slayer is automatically able to turn is unable to harm the slayer with any of its special attack forms. For example, a 6th level slayer can automatically turn ghouls. Consequently, she is immune to a ghoul's paralyzing touch. Note that no slayer will ever be immune to the special attacks of vampires, ghosts, liches, or special undead creatures.

Slayers attract followers in the same manner as warriors, but enjoy the assistance in building their strongholds that a regular cleric would receive.


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Message 3473 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 11/22/00 4:45 pm
Seems I made a few mistakes in my posting, rather sloppy of me... Should still be able to make sense of it though...

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3472 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3474 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? dragon_lord_yu
(18/M/Belgrade,YU!) 11/22/00 5:18 pm
Hi!I have a few remarks.
1)This is to me more a warrior sub-class.
2)Further it represents to undead everything that a paladin represents to evil and since undead are mostly evil,your slayer would be a paladin specialized in hunting undead,thus having more powerfull abilities in executing his 'job'.
3)I think he should have at least paladins level advancement rate.
I'll think more about it.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3473 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3475 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? dragon_lord_yu
(18/M/Belgrade,YU!) 11/22/00 6:28 pm
Oh,yeah! I tthink there should be some restrictions for armor at least.(cos of Spell-casting)

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3472 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3476 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/23/00 12:43 am
If this is a 2e class ..

I think it makes more sense for them to be a neutral-good version of Paladin .. if they get spell abilities earlier, they should get significantly less spells than a Cleric

If you stick with a Cleric sub-class, they still should have the advancement of a Paladin, but should be restricted (possibly by their religion) in the weapons they can use .. spell progression should be about a third that of cleric (first spell ability gained at 3rd level, cast the same spells available to a 3rd level cleric at 9th level, etc.). They may be able to turn or destroy (but never control) undead better than a cleric.

Part of my trouble is, do they serve their religion by ridding the world of undead, or do they serve their religion because it helps them rid the world of undead? If it's the former, they could be a Cleric sub-class, the latter, a NG pseudo-Paladin.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3475 by dragon_lord_yu

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Message 3477 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? karrakain
(37/M/London, UK) 11/23/00 7:00 am
There is a pretty good version of a prestige Undead Hunter class in one of the recent Dragon magazines - Lots of similar abilities, could maybe use that as a base too ?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3472 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3478 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 11/23/00 10:59 am
This seems to there ever bbe the main debate of the character, rather if it should be a Cleric or Paladin sub-class... And I can see both sides, which leaves me questioning which would be more fitting... They serve in a religion where they see no use in evil, so they actively seek out to destroy it... They believe only be ridding the world of evil, will e a chance at peace and since they have the ability to destroy what they see as the ultimate evil, the undead, they seek them out... This tends to make me think of them as more of a Cleric sub-class, if they were a Paladin sub-class I can see room for quite a few changes...

Sanguinarius

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3476 by shinto_gaijin

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Message 3479 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 11/23/00 11:02 am
Thank you, I will have to look into such... May be helpful...

Sanguinarius

*sigh* Will my typing never cease to have errors?

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3477 by karrakain

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Message 3480 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins mattbcieri
(28/M/Upper Darby PA) 11/24/00 1:34 pm
Please remove your sight blinders for a moment, my fellow DM's!

I have been hearing phrases like "the classical Paladin", and "the paladin ahas traditionally been"...

What you must decide is how you define the paladin. History had defined paladins in terms of Charlemagne and the Crusades, or inn King Aurther terms. Both strived to be good, lawful and therefore all of the paladins you have ever heard of fall in line with these ideals.

Just as every god can have a priest, every god should also have a holy warrior. If you define a paladin as a holy warrior then you must lift the alignment restriction. (In my opioion you muust also lift the race restriction.)

As a holy warrior the character must uphold the laws and pricipals of their god. (this might actually force some players to role-play more than they are use to).

Something to think about: While it is easy to understand a paladin of Ares (god of war) how would you run a paladin of Aphrodity? (goddess of love and beauty). Even worse, how would you run a paladin of Hades (god of the dead). Each god has its own agenda. Each has its own area of influence. Each has ideals which are holy and must be upheald by their followers. As a paladin of a godess of beauty, I would expect personal appearance to play an important role. It should be sacreligious to call yourself a follower of a goddess known for beauty, while looking like a slob. I would also think that this paladin of Aphrodity would attempt to hold combat away from things which are considered beautiful so that they are not destroyed. if this can not be avoided, then the paladin must also defend these items of beauty.

As a Gm YOU define the roles. Do not be concerned with what has always been. That was the personal preference of some other DM (perhapse Gary Gygax). You are taking the preference of one DM long ago and turning it into a law. Remember the spirit in which these works were written by Gygax.

:ere is an excerpt from the Preface 1st ed AD&D GM Guide "What follows herin is strictly for the eyes of you, the campaign referee. As the creator and ultimate authority in your respective game, this work is rritten as one Dungeon Master equal to another. pronouncements there may be, but they are not from "on high" as respects to YOUR game."

Please keep this in mind as you are desinging YOUR world. If you want Evil dwarven Paladins of Vulcan go for it.

Matt Cieri

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3444 by dolphin99it

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Message 3481 of 6727 Reply

paladins Evertree
11/24/00 4:02 pm
I guess you want to redefine "Paladine".

There are anti-paladins, there are crusaders, there are templars, there are specialty priest and surely enough kits to go around.

A paladine is lawful good but Horus has Chaotic Good paladins as specialty priests. They are paladins in every sense but alignment... Horus is an unpstanding god of war after all. Would Aphrodite want holy warriors? Sune sure doesn't, and the peaceful gods usually have a very peaceful clergy. The militant sects are are just that, sects with a purpose all their own. They aren't paladins, either, even for LG deities. They are just Crusaders or Specialty Priests.

Why call them paladins if they aren't paladins? You're a DM, be creative, make a new kit or subclass.


E

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3480 by mattbcieri

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Message 3482 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins shinto_gaijin
(28/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/24/00 11:53 pm
I too believe that "Holy Warriors" can and maybe even should exist for the various races, alignments and religions .. but would they all be called "Paladins" and would they all have the same abilities?

Probably not.

Back in one of the early "Best of Dragon Magazine" collections was a list of Paladins for each of the alignments, with appropriate powers and drawbacks for each.

The trick, any time you create a new class, or warp an existing class to meet the needs of your campaign, is to keep the balance.

Also, think about what you are doing. Why create a whole new class when a combination of existing classes (dual or mutli-class for 2e & 1e, or multi-class for 3e). Also, along with unending multi-class options in 3e, comes "prestige" classes .. special classes open only to those who have met certain requirements and undergone special training.

The special powers also do not have to be class-related, they could be granted by the church -- permanent spell effects, special magic items, etc. -- and come with a certain responsibility or code of honor.

All in all, the possibilities are endless, bounded only by the imagination of you and your players.

s/g

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3480 by mattbcieri

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Message 3483 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins sneakabout2
(M/Faerun) 11/25/00 12:39 am
I myself thnk that you can have only three types of paladins - LG, LN and LE. I think that it is the discipline of the paladin lifestyle which should come through even if the paladin is evil.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3480 by mattbcieri

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Message 3484 of 6727 Reply

A Paldin by any other name... Rune_Lord
(26/M/Where I am, I am) 11/26/00 12:52 am
Is still a paldin. Hello one and all..it has been a while since I have posted, more so visitied this site.

Here are my two copper pieces worth of input:
1) Paladins can be of any alignment. BLASPHEMY!! No, not really; just truth.
2) They can also be of any race. Infidel!! Thank you.

I make these statements based on principle. It comes from a Dragon Magazine issue (i believe #85 or 88; been a while since I last saw the actaul article and have lost it.) The article gave paladins for every alignment in detail; all except the LG and CE. I did re-type the article into Word format about 4 years ago and finally found it on an old disk. Whoever would like a copy of the file, please send me an e-mail: rune_lord@yahoo.com.

The paladins it mentions are the Myrikhan (NG), the Garath (CG), the Fantra (CN) the Illrigger (LE) the Arrikhan (NE) the Paramander (True N), the Lyan (LN).

I have used the Lyan, the myrikhan, the illrigger and the arrikhan in my campaigns and it only enhanced the game. Players acted out the parts of the PCs and the achieved the goals/aims of their deities. I made some modifications to the character class when the players selected the pa;adin type though. I had a problem with playing into the demonic aspect on player wanted to take his character/self.

Well, guess that I have shared more than two copper pieces worth, but I am sure that all have enjoyed my input.

With regards,

Rune Lord (aka in the mortal realm as Allen)


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Message 3485 of 6727 Reply

Druidic information Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 11/26/00 5:41 pm
I have started a website with information about the 'druid' class and I am wondering if anyone has information they would like to add, or be linked to, with regards to the druid character class.

I was not able to find much information on the web that was game based, there are a lot of paganism sites, but not any to my knowledge that are for RPG. So I started one, I have put some information on the site already, but I am still working on it.

http://www.geocities.com/charlier64/

I was hoping to find others with this interest, to add information or add links. The site can also be a good resource for DM's and players for new spells, magic items and such.


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Message 3486 of 6727 Reply

Re: A Paladin by any other name... Rune_Lord
(26/M/Where I am, I am) 11/26/00 5:45 pm
Apologies for the misspelling of the word paladin...my letter "a" sticks and have to pound it to get it to work.

Good number of you have inquired on the article I spoke of. Here's a hyperlink to the file in my briefcase. http://briefcase.yahoo.com/rune_lord

File is called Plethora of Paladins.

Please give some feedback on what you think. I like the alignments and character descriptions.

Again, this is a Dragon Magazine article and is property of TSR/Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro, anyone I forgot? Enjoy!!

Allen

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3484 by Rune_Lord

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Message 3487 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question about the paladins Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 11/26/00 5:58 pm
I couldn't agree with mattbcieri more.

I am currently running a campaign where only one god has 'paladins'. He is a war god, and the paladins think their ideals - are the right ideals - above anyone elses. Which makes them the biggest fanatics in my world, they cause more problems than they solve. They also are unreasonable, from their point of view, they are correct, every other inhabitant of the world believes the paladins are wrong.

It makes for good story lines and add turmoil to my world, it also makes the player characters think more about their own alignment and what it means to the character. Who is good and who is evil? Both sides want the same thing in the end, a peaceful world, but by what means.....

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3480 by mattbcieri

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Message 3488 of 6727 Reply

3rd ed weapon restrictions orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 11/27/00 1:46 am
Does anybody know if there are weapon restrictions on multiclassed 3rd Ed fighter/clerics or Ranger/Wizards?.

Orgruff, Dwarf of the new millennium


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Message 3489 of 6727 Reply

Re: A Paldin by any other name... infernoblade
(M/9 hells) 11/27/00 1:50 am
Being a long tome gamer.I like the plethora.I have played them as well as DMed them.They make for more then just the standard Lg paladin.But I have the plethora from the Dragon Magazine Archives( the full copy). As well as the Anti-paladin.Which would complete a Dm's reputiore. They allow the players both new and veterans the options of classes of different versatilities.Each aligned paladin has different abilities as well as character goals.If some one needs this stuff e-mail me at Infernoblade@yahoo.com.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3484 by Rune_Lord

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Message 3490 of 6727 Reply

Question for the 3rd ed experts sniper2130
11/27/00 12:05 pm
I am currently running a campain under 2nd ed and a member (who's character recently met his demise) wished to create a new character under 3rd ed rules. I am planning to make the switch when I actually get around to buying the 3rd ed books. I have access to the books for play, but are they compatable? I am concerned that he could gain advantages that the other characters can't. Any suggestions?


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Message 3491 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/27/00 1:59 pm
I tend to agree that this is more paladinesque than clerical in nature. Check out the Ghost Hunter kit in the complete paladin's handbook.

If you still think it should be a cleric, and think it is a tad powerful, then here are a couple of suggestions.
- I don't see why the slayer would need to step outside of clerical weapons.
- the immunity to special powers thing leaves a lot of room for abuse. If you are going to use it, I would spell out exactly what the slayer is and is not immune to.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3472 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3492 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question for the 3rd ed experts jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/27/00 4:43 pm
You shouldn't let him switch unless the entire campaign does it. The two systems are closely related in style, but in actual game mechanics they are vastly different. The most obvious example are the saving throws...while 2e still uses different categories (Rod, staff, wand, spell, breath etc) 3E only has an agility, fortitude and will save. There would be no way to resolve all the differences and yes the 3e character classes are close but some have more abilities than the equivalent 2e class. I'd hold off until you get all the books and know the rules and switch the whole campaign at once.

Jojutsu the Wise

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3490 by sniper2130

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Message 3493 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question for the 3rd ed experts madteuton
(31/M/Keyport, NJ) 11/28/00 1:34 pm
I find myself once again in agreement with jojutsu. That would be waaaay too much work for a DM simply to appease one PC. There are a lot of differences (the system's received a total overhaul, in fact). I would advise the PC to wait.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3492 by jojutsu82

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Message 3494 of 6727 Reply

Dragon Mag Article jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/28/00 4:16 pm
I recently read this
Dragon magazine article about good vs bad role playing...did anyone out there read that? I have to say that was easily the best article I have ever read in that mag.

Its important to keep a good balance between action and role playing in any game...the article specifically addressed players who take 20 min to an hour just to walk down 1 hallway. Remember..when you roleplay...you are supposed to be a HERO...not a paranoid accountant..lol

anyway...good article...I recommend reading it if you haven't seen it yet. It should be a must read for every player..in fact I may just xerox it and hand it out to all of my new players..lol

Jojutsu
the Well Balanced


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Message 3495 of 6727 Reply

Re: Question for the 3rd ed experts orgruff
(32/M/Adelaide, Australia) 11/28/00 4:30 pm
There used to be a set of guidelines on the WOTC site to enable you to change over from 2E to 3E. I guess that since its release date they took it off. Ability score bonuses is the bigest change it would be unfair to the other players if you gave him bonuses under the 3E rules while they were still under the 2E rules.

I say make him wait, or loan you the books.

Orgruff

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3493 by madteuton

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Message 3496 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? sanguinarius_13
(16/M/Louisville, KY) 11/28/00 6:11 pm
I can not seem to find the article, any idea which issue it is?

Sanguinarius,
The Stupid DM

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3477 by karrakain

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Message 3497 of 6727 Reply

Re: The Slayer Too Strong? jojutsu82
(36/M/Silver Spring, Md.) 11/28/00 10:37 pm
Issue 277/November 2000
the article is called "How you Play the Game" by Tracy Rye Hickman

QUOTE:
"I was a barbarian surrounded by the dungeoneering equivalent of FORENSIC ACCOUNTANTS. Every door we came upon had to have paint chips taken for cobalt carbon dating. We would spend half an hour on a door before moving cautiously on to the next, only to repeat the process all over again. Finally, we ended up in an ornate chamber. The DM described the walls and pillars as covered with "strange runes." No further details-just "strange." The other players quite literally couldn't read the writings on the wall, but you couldn't convince them of it. We spent all night in that one room, looking for something that just wasn't there."

FURTHERMORE:
Q: What are the hit dice, armor class, and damage capabilities of a Minotaur you discover after hastily bursting through a door?
Q: Now what are the hit dice, armor class and damage capabilities of a minotaur that you creep up on after spending 20 minutes checking that door?
ANSWER: They're the same.

Great article...every role player should read this one.

Jojutsu
The Grateful DM

ANSWER:

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3496 by sanguinarius_13

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Message 3498 of 6727 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Umbratikus
(35/M/Central Ohio) 11/29/00 8:36 am
Perhaps if you feel that strongly about it, you could scan it and post it in your profile.

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3497 by jojutsu82

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Message 3499 of 6727 Reply

Dragon Article Revisited Calitrojan
11/29/00 2:33 pm
I actually have this Dragon article transcribed into a word Document... I communicate with my players via e-mail and occassionally send them transriptions of Dragon articles I think they would enjoy or benefit from... this happened to be the latest one I sent out.

If anyone wishes to read this article please lt me know and I will e-mail it to you. Also, if anyone wants I can add you to my list to provide you with the occassional transcribed article.


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Message 3500 of 6727 Reply

Re: Dragon Article Revisited dragon_lord_yu
(18/M/Belgrade,YU!) 11/29/00 2:47 pm
Hi.I saw your message and Jo's hints of the article and I have to say I'm most interested.Please send it as soon as you can.
Grateful in advance>dragon_lord_yu@yahoo.com

This Is a Reply to: Msg 3499 by Calitrojan