|
|
Posts 1001-1500
Message 1001 of 6250 Reply
Another thread on 3d edition mharelick
8/31/99 10:12 am
I checked out TSR's web site. It seems that the game will be quite different
from 2nd edition. I think that TSR would be better off just calling it
by a different name.
Personally I will not buy it. I already invested alot of money in first
edition, and then second edition.
If I wanted to play a different game, I already own several fantasy games.
I find myself quoting Pictii ... They are a bunch of greedy money grubbers.
---
Message 1002 of 6250 Reply
Alignments and Character Classes mharelick
8/31/99 10:39 am
Hi:
I've always felt that ADnD binds too much to the alignment. For example,
the requirement that the ranger be good aligned is puzzling, because his/her
abilities and skills are not linked to good. They are more linked to neutrality
the way a druid is linked to neutrality.
As another example, take the Paladin.
Sure, if a Paladin was the symbolic fantasy of a knight, I could see the
requirement for LG. However, the Paladin is a holy warrior, and if he
is a holy warrior for Loki for example, he should be allowed to be evil
and have protection from good spells.
Matthew
---
Message 1003 of 6250 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral shinto_gaijin
8/31/99 11:04 am
This is one of the great things about D&D .. your campaign can run your
way, mine can run my way .. some definitions are open to interpretation.
The "law of the land" does not automatically mean "order".
From "Oriental Adventures" (the only book I have handy, but these definitions
are almost exactly from the 1st ed. PH, if I remember correctly) "LAWFUL
characters believe in the ordered structure of the universe." "Lawful
neutral characters seek to increase the amount of stability in the world
without worrying whether the general condition is for good or ill."
In my opinion, stopping chaotic acts (typically crimes) by any means necessary
(including committing crimes) would not be beyond the scope of the LN
alignment.
LN does not mean that they lose the ability to think beyond the written
laws (alignment is personal perception .. one person's perception of what
brings order may be skewed from another's) or take actions against a tyrannical,
despotic, or simply apathetic or incapable ruler.
Lotherio .. thank you for your perspective, it is appreciated.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 998 by Lord_Ixius
---
Message 1004 of 6250 Reply
Re: Alignments and Character Classes shinto_gaijin
8/31/99 11:21 am
I have always found the "non-good" restriction on thieves odd .. not many
PC thieves I've worked with did a whole lot of stealing.
Rangers, I believe, were restricted to "any good" to avoid using their
abilities as an "outdoor assassin" or "highway robber" (I'm not sure I
agree with it, but I never really liked the Ranger class anyway.)
Paladins, in the 1st ed. (prior to Unearthed Arcana) were modelled after
the knights of Authurian legend (in my opinion). There was an issue of
Dragon Magazine (and a second release in "Best of Dragon") of Paladin-type
classes of other alignments. The abilities were slightly different (a
CE Paladin w/ Prot fm/evil and Det/evil and "Laying on Hands" just doesn't
make sense), but the "holy warrior" aspect was the same.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1002 by mharelick
---
Message 1005 of 6250 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 8/31/99 1:23 pm
Perhaps not, but a Lawful person, by game definition, believes that law
is necessary for a society to function. If there are a set of rules that
bind a society together (laws), a lawful character would support that.
If a character was Lawful Good, and the lawmakers were Lawful Evil, then
there might be a problem if the laws reflected the evil nature, but if
only some of the laws were unjust, the Lawful Neutral would probably abide
as long as some of the laws were fair. If all of the laws were unjust,
then that would upset the characters philosophy of neutrality between
good and evil and he would intervene on that account.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1000 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1006 of 6250 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral shinto_gaijin
8/31/99 9:19 pm
Along with laws, a sufficient justice system and means of implementation
are also required to maintain order. Vigilantes (and others who "take
the law in their own hands") most commonly believe that the system doesn't
work, whether the laws are unjust or inefficient, or those who attempt
implement and enforce them, which is the rational defense for "justifiable
homicide".
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1005 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1007 of 6250 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral shinto_gaijin
8/31/99 9:32 pm
I still think you're too passive in your definition of "Lawful" .. adventurers
(for the most part) are ambitious, headstrong young adults who are still
learning about the world (and given enough time and ale, can probably
solve the world's problems).
LN characters could be revolutionaries, desiring to bring about a new,
better form of order. Alignment not only affects short-term thinking,
but long-term goals and "big picture" planning and decision making. A
LN character would be able to deal with causing a little chaos, if it
meant progressing order in the long run.
By the same supposition, Chaotic characters would never form armies (too
much order) even if the long term goal was megalomaniacal conquering of
the known universe (or just because big-scale killing and looting and
plundering is fun .. more for me). Chaotic characters can similarly deal
with order, if it allows them to cause more disruption.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1005 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1008 of 6250 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral Lord_Ixius
(20/M/Orange Park, FL) 8/31/99 10:31 pm
Very interesting all the different opinions and interpretations on alignment,
in particular LN. I must say that it is facinating hearing everyone's
different thoughts on the matter. I think it is safe to say, however,
that alignments are very subjective to the game setting and to the DM,
and i doubt, even as entertaining as it may be, that no amount of debate
or discussion will produce a "right" and a "wrong" way to interperate
an alignment.
/~^*^~\
Lord Ixius
of Canston Manor
and
Keeper of the Silver Rose
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1007 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1009 of 6250 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral Calitrojan
8/31/99 11:14 pm
Sorry to join this conversation in mid-stream.
However, in my former group (I am lacking a current group for various
reasons) the term lawful could and many times was interpreted to be the
following of a canon of rules. Now what these rules were and where they
came from depended on how the DM liked ot interpret things.
It could be the moral chimings of a church, the law of the land, or a
personal combination. Thus giving LE characters a greater ability to bring
the evil half of their mentality into the lawful half. Obeying rules yet
still managing to cause grief to others.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1007 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1010 of 6250 Reply
Re: Another thread on 3d edition Calitrojan
8/31/99 11:53 pm
Not that I want to start calling TSR or and company for that matter greedy
money grubbers. (Maybe I am biased because I work for the 2nd largest
company in the world).
But I too will not be buying the third edition. I have played my five
year gaming career in the 2nd edition and I like it. I hav eof course
moved it around... well a lot to suit my style and the style of my players.
(Lord only knows what other changes will be made when I finally get a
group together in this new town.)
Heck at one point I even went as far as to write my own rules, based loosely
on the 2nd edition. I have long since misplaced them in my numerous files.
(Yes I have a filing cabinet... well more like thre drawers of junk stacked
on top of one another) Anyway the rules suited me and my former group
played with them for a year and a half before we sen tthem back to tthe
drawing board for a rehash... that only got half-hashed.
But how many times are we going to accept TSR revisions to the loose guidelines
that they originally set-up for us?
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1001 by mharelick
---
Message 1011 of 6250 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral shinto_gaijin
9/1/99 4:00 am
What if the "canon of rules" is crappy ??
Chaos obviously involves independent thought, "looking out for number
one, to heck with everyone else." (anyway, if you made rules for chaotic
characters, wouldn't it be in their nature to ignore them ??)
Neutrality does also, "there must be a balance to all things."
Why not Law? Lawful does not necessarily mean following someone else's
rules. It means deciding what course of action will promote social order.
I agree "Lawful" characters believe that in society there must be (1)
fair rules, (2) trustworthy authority, and (3) respect for authority.
However, if any of these factors are not complete, in the eyes of the
character, order may be jeopordized, and action (within the rules and
respectful of authority, if possible) must be taken. It would be more
important to take action and restore order than to wait, as a problem
gets progressively worse, and hope for a "Lawful" solution to present
itself.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1009 by Calitrojan
---
Message 1012 of 6250 Reply
Re: Alignments and Character Classes the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/1/99 5:47 am
I agree that some of the requirements for alignment of certain classes
are idiodic. One example is that of the assasin and having to be evil.
I have played assasins who restrict their targets to evil characters...so,
how can I be truely evil?
In terms of a paladin...some DMs seem to function under the belief that
all paladins are LG...that simply cannot be or you are saying that only
"good" gods can have paladins. The only restriction I would have is that
they be Lawful. The good, nuetral, or evil part will depend on the god.
One thing some of those in the discussion of LN are missing is that Lawful,
in my opinion, refers to the "laws" of the individual. His personal set
of laws may not agree with the laws of the land he is in. A LG character
would fight injustice (or what he percieved as injustice based on "his"
laws) regardless of the laws of that land (note that he would try to do
this in as close of a "the place" lawful way that he could), a LN would
maintain balance yet keeping to his laws, and LE would commit the evil
acts in ways that were lawful and acceptable to him. Any familiar with
Dragonlance would have in mind the Knights of Takhisis...LE characters
who consider murder, plundering, assasination, and other evil acts all
"lawful" according to "their" idea of law.
To another's response to this post, I feel you simply cannot have a CE
Paladin..even if your god is CE...the Paladin must adhere to the Laws
set down by his god or he is not a Paladin...if the god says unjustified
murder is OK, then that is "lawful". There is a term I have seen in Dragon
Magazine called "Anti-Paladin"...this is a Chaotic character (they refer
to just CE, since Paladins are considered LG) whose alignment is in direct
opposition to that of a Paladin, for instance...LG=CE or LE=CG...I cannot
see there being anything in direct contrast to those of Neutral alignment,
but I'm not sure. These are not to be mistaken for an Evil Paladin, which
I have found is a common mistake by some players.
lastly, the powers given to Paladins come from their god...so, if your
god is evil, "protection from evil" would certainly be stupid...to any
DMs, keep in mind that your Paladins would have anything their god deemed
useful in dealing with his enemies..whatever their alignment.
Really lastly, there are very few classes that really require strict alignment
catagories...for the most part, it is up to you and the player to determine
the alignment of a character and his class. You, as DM, can certainly
allow the Good Thief (certainly not LG) but it is up to the player to
follow that alignment once chosen.
Just a few thoughts,
Laura, The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1002 by mharelick
---
Message 1013 of 6250 Reply
Re: Alignments and Character Classes shinto_gaijin
9/1/99 8:46 am
I think it is possible for a CE Diety to empower a warrior with "Paladin-like"
abilities ..
The CE "Paladin" does not have to be given "rules" by the diety, just
guidance or an ultimate goal, and a standard by which to lead his life
.. selfish, uncaring, and with a desire to cause disruption wherever he
goes, in the name of whoever.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1012 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1014 of 6250 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/1/99 9:27 am
As both the first and second editions (and probably the third edition)
states that alignment is a guideline, not a straitjacket. Alignments are
also philosophies, which means interpretation can vary.
Whereas I agree that there are situations where LNs would "buck the system,"
I don't think this would be the norm. It would be the exception rather
than the rule. The scenario of a group of revolutionaries is a great example,
but again, this is not the norm. Vigilantism would be deemed chaotic in
almost every sense (CG more than likely), "bucking the system" for the
greater good.
Character Type Alignment Restriction Dept: I see mood dragon's interpretation
of paladins being any lawful alignment and that could make sense in some
campaigns. The idea of the paladin is to be the paragon of goodness, a
manifestation of the ultimate good in humanity (as mentioned earlier,
because it was based on the Lancelot character in Arturian legend). This
is the reason for the LG alignment restriction, but mood dragon's system
is reasonable.
I believe the thief alignment restriction was changed in the 2nd edition
to be any non-lawful alignment. Therefore you could have NG and CG thieves,
but no LN or LE ones.
The ranger is restricted to good because by definition he is a protector.
If one is a protector, that tends to imply that he is good aligned. Using
the kit system in 2nd ed., one could design a wilderness warrior very
similar to a ranger (without spell use) and be any alignment he/she wanted.
Likewise, the assassin is restricted to evil because assassination is
a vile and evil act. Even if the assassin only takes out evil marks, the
act of assassination is unscrupulous at best. There are a lot of more
acceptable ways of dealing with evil than slipping a poison needle in
one's saddle. Although I can see where there could be circumstances where
an act of assassination might be a best course of action, I still cannot
see it as a good act in any sense.
However, as I stated earlier, alignment is only a guideline. Personally,
I think that within a group of real role players, alignment is a really
fun aspect of a character. I enjoy playing different alignments, and as
DM, I enjoy watching my players interact with different aligned characters.
I am blessed with players who really get into the role, and can play alignments
to a T. There are rarely disputes based on characters acting out of their
chosen alignments.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1011 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1015 of 6250 Reply
Re: Alignments and Character Classes mharelick
9/1/99 11:23 am
The Anti-Paladin is one character class that is relevant here. However,
I would argue that the Anti-Paladin should not be called an Anti-Paladin
but just a Paladin of a chaotic evil god.
Of course an evil god will not give an evil paladin detect / protect from
evil magic, but he will give him analogous powers. For instance, a chaotic
evil paladin could have detect / protect from good magic.
A CN paladin may have a set of analogous skills.
Personally I think that perhaps the paladin class should be deleted to
be replaced by a religious warrior fighter kit.
As for thieves, I can imagine a LG Thief / spy who is fiercly loyal to
his king.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1012 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1016 of 6250 Reply
Re: Another thread on 3d edition mharelick
9/1/99 11:28 am
Well I feel ok about my investment in 2nd Edition, because 2nd Edition
was backwards compatible with 1st edition and it included streamlined
versions of the house rules and ideas submitted to Dragon magazine over
the years.
However, these new rules seem to be coming from nowhere and according
to the TSR web page is not compatible with previous rules.
So I won't accept any more rule sets from them.
(This sounds like New Coke vs Old Coke)
Matthew
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1010 by Calitrojan
----
Message 1017 of 6250 Reply
Re: Alignments and Character Classes Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/1/99 1:31 pm
I agree with mood dragon in that a paladin type of character cannot be
anything other than lawful because, by definition of the class, they must
follow a very strict code. Other neutral and chaotic gods may have their
Holy Warriors, but they shouldn't be paladins. Perhaps new subclasses
or kits could be developed for, say, a Chaos Warrior or something.
I also can't see your LG thief idea. Feirce loyalty to a king would not
denote lawfulness. The Players Handbook states that a NG character would
follow the laws of a society as long as it suited him and his concept
of Good. I would put your loyal spy in a NG bent. LG just wouldn't do
the spy thing, I'm afraid, at least not in my interpretation of the alignment.
For instance, would you consider James Bond Lawful Good? I would say NG,
perhaps even CG, although he is fiercely loyal to the crown, he is rather
careless with Q's gadgets ans loves to torment him and Moneypenny.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1015 by mharelick
---
Message 1018 of 6250 Reply
Re: Another thread on 3d edition Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/1/99 1:33 pm
I interpreted the TSR website to say that the 3rd edition WAS backward
compatible, in fact they stated that that was one of their chief concerns
in the re-design. What did you read that made you think it was not backwards
compatible?
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1016 by mharelick
---
Message 1019 of 6250 Reply
More on the LG thief Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/1/99 1:36 pm
Well, perhaps I could see a LG spy during war time. War greatly changes
the environment, but I can't see a peace-time spy being LG. I can't see
any thief character as being LG. That would denote a thief that doesn't
steal, doesn't sneak, doesn't open locks without a key, and doesn't backstab.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1015 by mharelick
---
Message 1020 of 6250 Reply
Re: More on the LG thief Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 9/1/99 2:02 pm
>War greatly changes the environment<
What kind of spying would this be (for the LG spy)?
Being the scout, conducting reconaissance, doing military type spying
- I think this would be more along the lines of ranger work.
About LG and Paladins - I agree, it's modelled is the embodement of Lawful
Good, anything else isn't really a Paladin so much as a Holy Warrior/fighter
(as was stated). There is actually a kit made for Holy Warriors, in the
Al-Qadim main source book, Arabian Adventures - the Fasir (I believe that's
it). It seems more to fit in an Arabian setting though (they're always
having holy wars and jihads and wat nots) and they don't get all the spell
like abilities of the Paladin. However, should a warrior really be true
to the cause of his god (good or evil), there is nothing in the books
that says he cannot be awarded by his god and granted special abilities.
On that thought, let's say there is a warrior who seems to embody all
the ethos of some chaotic evil god (has gained the gods attention as is
in line for a special reward). Would a player character really want those
rewards - extra limbs, deformed skeleton, horns, spitting venom, any other
evil weirdness (I really don't see a chaotic good giving a follower much
beneficial things - it would be something random and unexpected)? That
would probably attract all kinds of goodly heroes who want to banish this
monstrosity - not to mention alerting Paladins of this person.
** In a tavern:
Peasant: There's this monster in the north - forked tongue, red eyes,
fire for hair, four arms - killing peasants, pillaging whole villages,
raping women.
Most normal Characters: *thinks Wow, here's a chance to rid the world
of some vile being, perhaps gain the attention of an important official
like a king or something* TO DM: I turn to the peasant 'Where exactly
did you say this demon spawn was?'
Just my two cents,
Lotherio
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1019 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1021 of 6250 Reply
More on Alignment the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/1/99 4:16 pm
OK...let us look at the term ANTI-Paladin...by definition this is NOT
an evil paladin, but someone who is against the ideals of being a Paladin...hence,
the ANTI part....they are not just the evil (or opposite alignment) version
of a standard paladin, they are the embodiment of all that paladins of
any alignment stand for.
now...about the religious warrior...if his actions over a period of time
follow a strict sense of order in the absolute devotion of a god, they
may be rewarded by that god by being given the level of paladin and any
special powers or abilities that come with it from that god. Let me ask
anyone, if you were an evil warrior, would you not enjoy the added damage
and destruction you could achieve by having multiple arms (multiple attacks),
venomous spit (extra attack like breath weapon), or even the reaction
adjustment gained by having flaming eyes or the like (instilling fear
in NPCs) At the same time, good characters could also benifit from the
blessing of their god...all of a sudden your sword now does double damage
against evil creatures or beings, you have the ability to turn undead,
or you can heal yourself and others with just a word or prayer...Good
or Evil, the gifts given by a god to his followers, especially those so
loyal as to be called paladins, are a great addition to any campaign.
let us think on an example...Geoffry the Paladin of a "Good" god...over
the course of a campaign, he continues to act in ways that are not in
accordance with his god, eventually he finds himself without his "powers"
and is given a dream from his god that says, in effect, straighten you
act up or you will never get those powers back!! He continues on, but
his behavior does not improve. Next thing you know, he is getting a dream
from another god, one of Evil, offering him fortune, power, and other
rewards to continue his behavior and maybe do something "special" for
this new god....Giving PCs these kind of choices can be good for either
keeping them in alignment or building new and exciting adventures and
plot twists...like his once friends now hunt him or something.
I would never want to take the alignment issue out of the game...it gives
the player that extra challenge and spice everyone needs and gives the
DM a bountiful resource of plot ideas.
Just some thoughts...all be them moody ones :)
Laura,
The Mood Dragon
---
Message 1022 of 6250 Reply
Re: More on the LG thief mharelick
9/1/99 4:36 pm
Stealing, breaking in , and backstabbing could
all be legal activities if allowed by law when in service to the government.
When the US government taps someone else's phone to catch a criminal ,
is that a bad act?
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1019 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1023 of 6250 Reply
A little more alignment the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/1/99 4:39 pm
Characters who were religious warriors before, lets say CG, but they began
to act in very lawful ways over a period of time, will move to LG. This
gives them possibility to become a paladin.
But, I definitly maintain that a paladin MUST be Lawful!!!!!!!
the other is just a zealot..a fighter with a sense of religion...he may
love his god and worship his god, but unless he follows a strict code
of conduct based on the beliefs of that god, he will never be a paladin.
This is especially true if that particular god has an order of paladins
already, then the rules are clearly laid out somewhere.
OH..and ABSOLUTELY NOT CAN THERE EVER BE A LAWFUL THIEF....I MIGHT EVEN
GO SO FAR AS TO SAY THAT TO THINK SO IS...UM....LESS THAN INTELLIGENT!!!!
a-hem...now that that is out...someone made the comment in an earlier
post that they have had "good" thieves and "hey, they didn't do alot of
stealing anyway"...um...I sure hope you are giving them any XP...cuz,
if they ain't doing there job, they ain't gettin' paid!!!!! I am not saying
that a thief can't be somewhat good hearted, but stealing is not a "good"
thing...maybe NECCESSARY, but not GOOD...in reference to my "good" assasin,
I don't think he has to be able to have a good alignment...just not an
evil one...I like true neutral or even possibly Lawful Neutral...before
everyone argues about that one...if the assasin follows a strict code
of conduct (internal laws) it makes him lawful. His laws do not have to
be the laws of the land. In fact, being "Chaotic" is not good for an assasin
who need to be very organized and controled...just killing someone is
going to get an assasin noticed and hunted and is not a good career move
for him!!
OK..I think I am done for now..
Laura,
The Mood Dragon
---
Message 1024 of 6560 Reply
Re: More on the LG thief the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/1/99 4:57 pm
is that a bad act....hmmm...let me think....
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
even if those acts are condoned by the government, that does not all of
sudden make them lawful. Regardles of war time, governmental needs, or
personal reasons...those acts remain unlawful...not neccessarily good
or bad, just unlawful. A spy sent to find out the forces and strength
of the enemy is doing a "good" thing (at least something for the greater
good) but the act itself is not lawful..the only way it could be is if
the Laws of the land say it is OK ALL THE TIME FOR EVERYONE..not just
when they need to tap your phone to see if you ar doing something illegal.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1022 by mharelick
---
Message 1025 of 6560 Reply
Re: Lawful Neutral Calitrojan
9/1/99 9:56 pm
Neutral characters having to abide by the balance of power premise are
the most restricted of all the alignments. I personally would have to
say that lawful characters have the easy way of it, because they have
a wide range of options open to them as long as they promote their rules
(crappy or not crappy). Neutrality tends to try and balance between the
"civilized world" of rules, regulations, morals, ethics, etc and the world
of chaos where I come first and you are bette roff being dead.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1011 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1026 of 6560 Reply
Reply to All .. shinto_gaijin
9/2/99 4:41 am
Umbratikus .. "alignment is not a straightjacket" .. I agree 100%
LN vigilantism is not the norm .. again, I agree, it would be a one-time
scenario that would cause philosophical grief. (But once it was rationalized
away, it would be easier to do again, and then it may be time to re-evaluate
the PC's alignment)
mharelick -- "Anti-Paladin" was only one option, I remember an article
in Dragon (was it really ten years ago .. jeez I'm getting old) that discussed
eight options .. one for each other alignment, all with different abilities
and names.
As for the LG spy .. I believe this could be a one-time scenario (like
above) but not a profession.
As for the 3rd Edition .. the FAQ describes the rules as being adapted
from "house rules" (not mine) that were "play tested" by experienced AD&Ders
along with newbies.
the mood dragon .. paladin "must equal" lawful
This is a definitional difference, a "your campaign, my campaign" thing.
You believe they have to follow strict rules, and that makes them a Paladin
.. I believe their unerring, unquestioning, devotion (zeal, if you will)
to their religion makes them a Paladin.
As for a thief "not doing his job" these were always thieves adventuring
with long-standing, mobile parties who were not active in any one guild,
using their thieving abilities for the good of the party (which was mostly
good).
Calitrojan .. law, neutral, chaos .. alignment should be a guide for individual
actions that work towards a greater good .. a "big picture" universal
philosophy.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1025 by Calitrojan
---
Message 1027 of 6560 Reply
Re: A little more alignment Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/2/99 9:36 am
Good aligned thieves are not really unreasonable. A "thief" does not have
to "steal." The thief character simply denotes a set of skills. These
skills could concievably be applied another way--scouts, troubleshooters,
etc, but Lawfully aligned is simply out of the question. Even if a thief
does steal, it doesn't mean he can't be good. Look at Robin Hood for instance.
Bilbo Baggins, etc.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1023 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1028 of 6560 Reply
Re: More on the LG thief Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/2/99 9:40 am
<>
Bad? Not necessarily. The end justifies the means, eh? However, it may
be "legal" but it isn't necessarily "lawful." There is a difference, albeit
a subtle one.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1022 by mharelick
---
Message 1029 of 6560 Reply
Re: A little more alignment dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/2/99 10:23 am
Ok, ok....you all did it....started in on good thieves. I have one. She
is by alignment, CG. She does steal, though not always for personal gain.
She isn't opposed to stealing, mind you. She just enjoys using her abilities
as a scout. Though, the backstab multiplier sure was handy one particular
time. Seeing one of her "own" (gnome) being tortured by a hobgoblin...tumbling
worked with it, too. Ran up its back, and used 2 daggers, and wham!!!!
No more hobgoblin, with damage multiplier of x4. Yemina, the theif, tends
to care about her friends more than the average theif.
About neutrality....I have a NG fighter, and he is always the first on
in battle...if his friend, the paladin doesn't push him out of the way.
Same said warrior also likes to wench, and usually smashes tables with
his head, as he's falling over passed out. hehehe....what can I say.
*sigh* Ok. Soap box is someone elses now.
Dragn_lady
I'll be baaaack............
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1027 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1030 of 6560 Reply
Alignment Lord_Ixius
(20/M/Orange Park, FL) 9/2/99 12:22 pm
Sorry i open THAT can of worms, he he he.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1026 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1031 of 6560 Reply
Mood Dragon Responds the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/2/99 3:38 pm
OK...if we all go back and look at what I did say and not what you have
MISTAKENLY interpreted, we will see that I said a thief CAN be "good"
just never lawful...and that if he "USES HIS SKILLS" he will get the XP...it
is in NOT using them where he is punished....lastly (on that subject)
THIEVES STEAL...there is a wide variety of rogue skills that can be mixed
around into a number of like-skilled sub-classes (you don't have to stick
to just the broad classes listed in the PH or handbooks...just work with
the DM to make "your" character)...but!!! to be a thief is to be someone
who steals things!!!!!
Paladin vs Religious Zealot/Fighter....OK...ask yourself "Why is there
a Paladin class at all?" There must be something different about him from
someone who is both fervent in his religion and actions (fighting actions
in particular) I hope this example works for everyone...Jesus did not
approve of zealots...in other words, the way by which certain individuals
acted in their religious/ fighting beliefs are not, neccessarily, the
way their god would approve of (and for any of you who do not believe
in Jesus or any modern religious philosophy...I DON'T CARE!!!..its just
an example)
I don't remember if I need to clear up any other incorrect ideas today,
but if I come across any, I'll be sure to correct your unfortunate mistakes.
Words Of Wisdom provided by...
The Mood Dragon
---
Message 1032 of 6560 Reply
Lawful theives and other fantasy Pictii
(34/M/PA) 9/2/99 5:43 pm
Law and Good, rarely are equal Ideas.
I would agree that a lawful theif is an oxymoron.
and like it or not almost any way you look at it theft = bad, bad = evil,
of course there is the stolen bread for the starving children excuse,
but cutting purse strings and nimbly picking other peoples locks are really
not very neighborly examples of good behavior.
As for paladins I personally think they are a silly namby-pamby, goodie
goodie concept. I'm not just good I'm SUPER good. Fantasy takes on all
forms, I guess.
My .02
Pictii
---
Message 1033 of 6560 Reply
Re: Paladin shinto_gaijin
9/2/99 6:07 pm
mood dragon ..
So how does your argument support that Paladins must be Lawful ??
I forgot one important point .. Paladins (and their other-aligned kin,
if you play that way) are "chosen" by their diety, not the other way around.
"Zeal," as in, "enthusiastic, diligent devotion inpursuit of a cause,
ideal, or goal" (thanks, webster), is not necessarily a bad thing, and
a term I believe applies to Paladins.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1031 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1034 of 6560 Reply
Re: Lawful theives and other fantasy shinto_gaijin
9/2/99 9:30 pm
Pictii
"As for paladins I personally think they are a silly namby-pamby, goodie
goodie concept."
*chuckle*
But they can be immensely fun and challenging to play and DM. It's what
fantasy role-playing is all about, trying to vicariously personify an
impossible ideal. Paladins aren't just your average adventurer-turned
hero, they're not a "Bruce Wills" type of character, Paladins are expected
to become heroes of the people, to be the subject of myth and song.
Paladins are not realistic .. even the best knights of the real medievil
era could not live up to chivalry and honor 24 hours a day .. Paladins
are expected to live up to the ideal their diety has proclaimed for them.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1032 by Pictii
---
Message 1035 of 6560 Reply
Re: Another thread on 3d edition m_furious
9/3/99 2:05 am
Just to get in my two cents, I think a lot of what they are saying about
the third addition makes a lot of sense. If any of you out there have
been DMing since the begining you can see how the third edition is a logical
step forward. We all vowed to never buy 2nd Edition stuff when it came
out, but our players bawked and wanted NWProfs and wanted to play first
level bards. Now it is time for the next big change NO MORE THACOS! (yeah)
In my experience nothing slows a game down more than forcing players to
subtract. And newbies can never get straight if they want to roll high
or low with a d20. Sometimes I forget! It sounds like the success/failure
rolls have been streamlined so that those points of confusion no longer
exist. Yes some of the 3rd Ed stuff will suck, and some of it will drive
us nuts (yet ANOTHER completely different psionic system?!?!) but I already
have my players using positive AC scores and I've turned THAC0s inside
out to match. It works!
As for backward compatability it sounds like there will be a separate
transitionary supplement designed to transfer characters from 2nd to 3rd
ed. So don't let your players worry about their 17th level ranger being
lost forever.
The big disappointment for me was the lack of a new magic system. The
"fire and forget" never sat well with me or my players, and any kind of
point system makes mage ultra powerful past 6th level or so...but I guess
if you changed that, there goes your compatability.
My Point: We are all on this club because we love AD&D enough to actually
DM it! Sure it is going to change and we will have to change with it.
If we didn't love the game we would have all joined the GURPS gm club.
So don't write 3rd edition off until its actually out. We could all be
pleasantly surprised (remember when the first "complete handbook came
out?).
Mr. Furious
http://members.tripod.com/Minmei1/panthule/main.html
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1018 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1036 of 6560 Reply
How to handle god, priests, and paladins m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/3/99 2:22 am
So when you have a vast pantheon of Gods (rather than just our own biblical
God)how do you handle clerics, paladins, and their alignments. Is seems
kinda unfair to players to have a paladin of a lawful good god, but no
equivilant class for a chaotic neutral god. I've already had to design
a paladin of Diana (a true neutral goddess of the hunt and women). Clerics
just don't seem to exist in my campaign. Players would rather be priests
of more exotic gods with more fantastic powers than durning the undead.
So what do you do?
Mr. Furious
---
Message 1037 of 6560 Reply
Re: Another thread on 3d edition shinto_gaijin
9/3/99 2:30 am
One thing mentioned in the 3rd ed FAQ was bonus spells for magic-users
based on high intelligence, which is kind of a compromise between nothing
and points. The key is, mages are feeble adventurers until they acquire
enough stuff or spells to be useful for more than only a few spells (then
they go cowering back behind the fighters), the additional spells (similar
to those earned for high wisdom by clerics) will be useful at first, and
will improve a magic-user's survivability, but won't amount to very much
in the long run (beyond 12th level or so).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1035 by m_furious
---
Message 1038 of 6560 Reply
Re: How to handle god, priests, and pala shinto_gaijin
9/3/99 2:40 am
Being a cleric is not usually exciting, unless there are semi-frequent
encounters with the super-natural and/or undead. Otherwise, they just
end up being a crappy fighter that can cast healing spells.
Divine influence, when presented in a manner that can be interpreted as
either a coincidence or a miracle, is a pretty good motivator. In some
campaigns, the gods have been known to look out for their most devout
followers.
The "more fantastic powers" should be rewards for years of faithful service
or major quests, and could theoretically be awarded to anyone (and just
as swiftly removed). Unless it is distributed fairly, anything else would
disturb the balance, I think.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1036 by m_furious
---
Message 1039 of 6560 Reply
Priests and Clerics Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/3/99 9:03 am
It is also true in my campaign that priests overpower clerics in popularity,
so much that I have pretty much subtracted general clerics from the campaign
altogether. Specialty priests in my campaign are among the most popular
of all character types. I put a lot of effort into the design of my priesthoods
and the players really enjoy it. Priests in my campaign are colorful and
each is very different from a priest of a different god. Playing a priest
of Xenepheron, god of vengeance, and playing a priest of Enul, goddess
of the moon is almost like playing two different character classes. The
classes are the same as listed, but tweaked a little. Some have unique
spells that only priests of that god can cast (Priests of Loqueth, the
spider queen, for example, can cas Stones to Spiders, a variation of Sticks
to Snakes). Special abilities also conform to their deity's spheres of
influence.
Having a lot of deities in a campain means you can't really effectively
design preisthoods for each and every one (unless you have a lot of time
on your hands). I typically have a brief (couple of paragraphs) description
of most of the gods in my campaign. When a player decides to play a priest,
he tells me which god he wants to worship. Then I go to work fleshing
out the deity and designing the priesthood. The players have always been
ecstatic with what I come up with. I don't break any AD&D rules. They
are still AD&D priests, they just have a lot of color and depth. I rely
heavily on the Complete Priests Handbook in these endeavors.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1038 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1040 of 6560 Reply
Variant Paladins SCA_Bard
9/3/99 9:52 am
I think the trouble comes in describing every holy warrior as a paladin.
The word has certain connotations, ie, big fighter in plate mail, honor,
chivalry, etc as described in the romances of the Middle Ages in Europe,
under the Christian god.
I like the idea of variant holy warriors. Make lots! But I'd consider
a) renaming them and b) changing the powers to suit the diety.
'Paladins' of, say, Diana might be Huntresses, Arrows of the Goddess,
etc. And rather than cure disease, perhaps they can enchant an arrow once
per week or summon woodland creatures. Not a PH paladin, to be sure, but
still the fighting arm of the faith, upholding its ideals.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1039 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1041 of 6560 Reply
Re: How to handle god, priests, and pala Lord_Ixius
(20/M/Orange Park, FL) 9/3/99 10:56 am
It has been my experience that, although cleric/priest characters do not
have awesome spell-casting capablility as do mages, they are still awesome
enough. Clerics can use both weapons and armor. True, they don't have
full access to all weapons and armor, but they aren't warriors, their
clerics. True, they don't have many really nifty spells that go boom,
sparkle, sparkle, sparkle...but again, they're clerics, not mages. The
fact that clerics can use both weapons/armor AND spells is what makes
them effective and in the hands of a capable player, it makes them awesome.
The use of clerical spells require more thought, creativity, and ingenuity
on the part of the player. Clearly, if a player believes clerics are a
poor fighter who can only cast healing spells, the clerical character
should not be allowed to be played by him/her. Many clerical spells are
non-combative in nature, which often requires that the player engage in
drama outside of combat...dare i mention such a thing! In addition, clerics
are more of a "drama" character anyway. They are not designed for hack-and-slash
mentality, which is why they don't have "fantastic powers." Sure "fantastic
power" can be fun, but they are not neccessary for clerics. Players who
want this type of character should be referred to playing a mage, particularly
a specialist invoker.
Needless to say, from my experience playing clerics/priests, they are
very handy. Usually i require at least one player in my campaigns to have
a cleric/priest. If there are not enough players or they all object to
playing a cleric/priest, I will often run an NPC cleric. I have learned
over the years of their value, and i don't mean simply turning undead.
/~^*^~\
Lord Ixius
of Canston Manor
and
Keeper of the Silver Rose
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1038 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1042 of 6560 Reply
Clerics, not Exciting??? fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 9/3/99 1:34 pm
I've played and Dm'd some pretty intence priests/clerics. It's all in
how they use their abilities. Even mages must think before they cast.
Fireball and Lightning bolts aren't very usefull when the rest of the
party is going toe to toe with the enemy. Cloud kill doesn't care who
it kills.
I have had a 5th level cleric create 20 gallons of water right in fron
t of a charging war horse. The dry ground suddenly turns slippery with
mud. Or how about heating up the chainmail of that HUGE brigand ready
to bash your fighters brains in. He's going to be VERY uncomfortable in
that 180 degree armor if he doesn't remove it quick. I've even had one
cleric cast COMMAND on a casting mage, telling him to laugh.
There are more examples of priests using there spells wisely. They are
not fighters or mages (I think that was stated before) They should not
be expected to equall up to either of them. What they lack in battle spells
they make up for the rest of the time. Personally, If Iwas stuck in a
wasteland, Ii'ld rather have a cleric then a priest with me. The Spells
a cleric could call upon could keep a party alive.
Ramblings from,
The Blind Sage of Elversult
---
Message 1043 of 6560 Reply
Clerics in the game Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 9/3/99 2:35 pm
I don't see how clerics are not exciting as well. Regardless of who get's
what spell, who can use and wear which items or who can use what skills;
any class is exciting if role-played correctly - well not correctly, we
all have different ideas on the correct way, just role-played well.
Some of the best role-players I have seen have played clerics. They are
bit more challenging with ethics and morals and all that - not quite as
much as a Paladin, but close. Those ethics dictate that they need to react
in various situations when other classes could really care less. It's
also fun to have one in a campaign, keeps the other players in line -
that is, assuming they share the same ethos - my players always are similar
in that regard (I'm grateful for this).
Just my two cents,
Lotherio
---
Message 1044 of 6560 Reply
Re: Clerics in the game...Lotherio Jiriki13
(30/M/Chicago area) 9/3/99 3:22 pm
I agree whole-heartedly with Lotherio. Some of the greastest role playing
I've seen or done myself has been with clerics.
Dave
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1043 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1045 of 6560 Reply
Priests and Clerics atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 9/3/99 7:43 pm
I am creating a campaign. I'm not the normal GM in our campaign. So of
course, I looked over the priest and cleric. I remember the times that
none of us wanted to be of the holy...and I realized why! The cleric was
slightly boring. He was the holy one who could turn undead and cast holy
spells. Period. The priest on the other hand can be sculpted for each
individual god, while the cleric seems to be more of a worshipper of a
single great god. I plan on making each priest a very interesting character
to play. I have created a small pantheon to choose from and cleric's abilities
and spheres(while outlawing the paladin and druid), if one wishes to become
a priest of a certain thing, such as The Hunt. I'll create a new god,
thus shaping the world as well as adding interest to the priest.
-Atesh
"Smoke'em if ya got'em"
---
Message 1046 of 6560 Reply
Re: Clerics in the game shinto_gaijin
9/3/99 10:55 pm
Any character can be challenging and exciting to role-play, but without
a good role player, a cleric becomes a healing spell and food&water dispenser.
(call me archaic, behind the times, old-school ..) I still only play 1st
ed, and am not familiar with the preist vs. cleric differences, but it
sounds difficult to keep balanced.
I agree that they are extremely useful, and I, too (as a DM) would not
send a party out on a long trek without one.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1043 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1047 of 6560 Reply
clerics & priests Birdbone
(M/Washington) 9/4/99 7:14 am
I didn't know everyone had clerics and priests in the same campaign.
When I start a campaign, I decide beforehand whether I will have clerics
or priests in my campaign. I don't have both at the same time - the way
I see it, either all holy-types belong to their own god, or they all just
draw power from the same unknown place.
---
Message 1048 of 6560 Reply
Priest/Cleric Perceptions the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/4/99 11:04 pm
I am so glad most of you were intelligent enough to agree with Lord Ixius...his
wisdom and understanding of the game, and gaming in general, far exceed
those of normal mortals...and appearently most DMs.
All Hail Lord Ixius!!!!
-The Mood Dragon
---
Message 1049 of 6560 Reply
Re: How to handle god, priests, and pala mharelick
9/5/99 11:35 am
Priests are fun characters to play if you your group is into roleplaying.
Besides fighting / healing, there is temple politics, society politics,
converting non-believers to your way of thinking, seeking out and destroying
enemy temples, etc.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1038 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1050 of 6560 Reply
Re: How to handle god, priests, and pala mharelick
9/5/99 11:37 am
Fortunately, so far , no-one has wanted to play a Paladin in my game.
However, the way I handle it is my game is geared towards neutrality rather
than good, so I will build an equivalent class from a warrior for a paladin
of a non LG alignment.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1036 by m_furious
---
Message 1051 of 6560 Reply
Why is animating dead an evil act? mharelick
9/5/99 11:49 am
Hello:
So given the combination of pantheon's , why is animation of the dead
evil?
If the religion believes in souls that go to heaven, then the body is
just meat and bones being made to dance around like a puppet.
Only earth-based religions, and mostly judeo-christian religions care
about the sanctity of grave sites.
Is animation of the dead evil because we are projecting our morality onto
this act? Why would people in a completely separately evolved fantasy
society consider this to be an evil act?
---
Message 1052 of 6560 Reply
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN! Raistlin333
9/5/99 4:25 pm
Please come and join the club white wizards realm we are looking for some
new memebers. We are a club devoted to magic, and Dungeons and Dragons/RPGs.
Remember.....White Wizards Realm!
---
Message 1053 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 9/5/99 8:40 pm
I believe you hold a very good point there and my answer is they don't
have to. For some religons upon your perhaps reserruction is considered
unholy to the character. Imagine a character being brought back to life,
learning he has been reseructed only to commit suicide because it is against
his beliefs. There should be religons that do believe that everything
should be used including the bodies of their own dead.
Just a couple ideas from the fried one,
-Atesh
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1051 by mharelick
---
Message 1054 of 6560 Reply
Re: Priest/Cleric Perceptions Lord_Ixius
(20/M/Orange Park, FL) 9/5/99 9:22 pm
My Lady, thou dost flatter me so! 'Tis no wonder you bear my silver rose!
/~^*^~\
Lord Ixius
of Canston Manor
and
Keeper of the Silver Rose
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1048 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1055 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? shinto_gaijin
9/5/99 10:42 pm
Good vs. evil is relative to the perception of the world ..
In the case of Animate Dead, it seems like cheating the gods (granted,
it is a "god-given" ability, in the case of the clerical version of the
spell), who are typically associated with giving and taking life. From
a druidic standpoint, it is disrupting the natural cycle, prolonging the
return of the body to the earth.
"Good" is usually associated with free will (but so is chaos .. go figure),
and the animated have none (and if they did, the first thing they would
probably do is go after their creator). The same thing could be said of
golems and other enchanted constructs.
As far as Resurrection or Raise Dead, it can also be seen as cheating
the gods. The spell caster is making a decision that "it was not his time"
and there is still unfinished business on the prime material plane. A
good cleric, in my opinion, should always use some means of augury (usually
commune, contact other plane, speak with dead, etc.) to verifiy that it
is "the right thing to do".
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1053 by atesh42
---
Message 1056 of 6560 Reply
My new webpage! lwilson243
9/6/99 2:39 am
WOW I really have a WebPage now. I have been working on it off and on
for a few days and I hope to update it soon. I would really like it if
you all would got to my page and tell me what you think. Well thanks and
fare ye well.
http:\\members.tripod.com/lee.wilson/ADnD.html
---
Message 1057 of 6560 Reply
Re: My new webpage! Birdbone
(M/Washington) 9/6/99 5:04 am
I briefly checked it out. It is a-ok but I think you might change some
of your opinions after you get more experience (some of what you said
seems to have come from reading a lot but playing a little).
I'd also like to back up what you've said about this club there. I too
have learned a lot from this place (but most of my posts don't turn out
like they sound in my head and they come out all weird).
Thanks everyone
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1056 by lwilson243
---
Message 1058 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/7/99 1:30 am
Interesting ideas but I disagree.
The desecration of grave sites is considered evil on earth for a very
good reason: corpses carry disease. Good is not a subjective thing but
rather an expansion of survival instincts. I think it would be very hard
to create a realistic fantasy world were exuming corpses was a "good"
idea. You don't play with road kill 'cuze mom told you not to, you left
it alone because it is a smelly gross dead thing. If we were supposed
to touch it wouldn't it smell "good" to us?
So as far as why animating dead is evil it seems to me that taking some
poor guys rotting body and filling it with negative planar energy so that
it will follow you around and fight your fights for you...is at the very
least "the opposite of good".
If you have trouble with good and evil in your fantasy world, read an
annotated Kant on Ethics. He presents some simple rules to test if something
is moral and it works in AD&D as well. I'll give you one for free:
Test of Universality: Something is immoral if it is unreasonable to imagine
a society where everyone must preform the act in question, all the time.
Can you imagine a society where everyone
MUST animate the dead? Well some of you probably could but take into account
the rot-o-smell factor and the "where are these bodies coming from" you
might stop to wonder...anyway I hope this helps, read Kant
Mr. Furious
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1055 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1059 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/7/99 8:52 am
I agree with Furious. Animating the dead is just wrong. Building on his
reasoning, part of it comes from the superstitions surrounding the dead.
Part of it is the fact that a walking corpse is grotesque (thanks George
Romero for your wonderful rendition of the walking dead). Part of it is
the fact that it isn't fair for some mourning widow to see her husbands
corpse up walking around acting as cannon fodder for some gutless adventurers
who are too cheap to hire men at arms. Some things are just inherently
sacred.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1058 by m_furious
---
Message 1060 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? mharelick
9/7/99 10:38 am
There are a lot of strange customs here on earth regarding the dead. One
says to mummify it. Others say to burn it, or bury it. There is one custom
(I forgot who exactly) reported in the New York Times of a mountain people
where the priest chopped the body up into little pieces and then let the
birds carry away the chunks.
If we add a ritual, boiling away the flesh leaving a skeleton, then this
takes care of the disease and the widow seeing her dead husband over again.
The skeleton can then be animated.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1059 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1061 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 9/7/99 12:41 pm
I can see your points, but these points are based on earth cultures, but
I'm more inclined on mharelick's ideas. And if the body was made into
the "living dead" almost immediatly after he died, could the magic not
sustain him from carrying disease(who says this has to be normal zombies).
And there have been many cultures, but exceptions in itself, that believed
that people could serve even after life. His loving wife, seeing him fighting
after the enemy killed him, yet he still fights on. It's strange and immoral
to most people of our culture, but look at another culture and I can assure
you that you'll find something you don't like about it, you probaly don't
like things about your culture's own morals.
-Atesh
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1060 by mharelick
---
Message 1062 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/7/99 12:46 pm
We, the creative people that we are, can always come up with specific
cases where there would be exceptions to just about everything, however,
that still doesn't take away from the general perception that the animation
of a corpse, skeletal or not, is inherently evil. Even if it was accepted
by one culture, another more traditional culture might find it evil. Look
at what happened with the Aztecs and their human sacrifices.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1060 by mharelick
---
Message 1063 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 9/7/99 1:56 pm
Ah, but general perceptions do not have to be our norm, as we "creative
people" think. Nearly every culture had human sacrifice at a point in
time, did you know that? We could be affixed in a period of the world's
time when animation of a corpse is part of a ritual, ergo it is not evil.
Human sacrifice once wasn't, eating human flesh wasn't...so the scene
is completly left to the discretion of the world's creator.
-Atesh
"An enemy's eyes were the most valuable part. Think of being able to see
through the eyes of an enemy."
-Mask of Zorro
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1062 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1064 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 9/7/99 2:10 pm
Hehe, maybe on this realm where the majority of cultures accept that their
clergy is animating their beloved ones after death is the same realm where
these prized 'evil' paladins come from? Maybe instead of 'turn undead'
clerics from these worlds can 'command undead'?
Usually, in alot of cultures, not withstanding the exceptions, the body
itself must be laid to rest (put to sea, burnt, otherwise ritualistically
put aside from the living) so that the part considered as the 'soul' may
go on to its final destination (Olympus, Heaven, Nirvana, whatever the
belief of the afterlife is). Most cultures believe that when the body
is disturbed, its journey to the otherworld is likewise disturbed. Obviously,
since the gods have some intentions for these souls in their realms, they
are beleived to become upset by a mortal meddling with their belonings
and most people don't want to have to explain themselves before whatever
god in whatever afterlife for having caused such trouble. Of course this
is only in belief by said religions.
Still, the commoners beliefs tend to affect a lot of decisions by political
powers. Even though most (of the commonres) should spend lots of time
in church and really understand the truths of their religion, they don't.
Even if a god has visited a priest and said, 'go ahead use these soul
shells for your own use', how's he going to explain this to farmer joe
who wants his wife bertha to journey on to meet with aforementioned diety?
Sure he's got some powers and doesn't really need to worry about ignorant
joe, but when joe flocks the church with the 50 other peasants brandishing
torches, said priest isn't going to stand a chance of surviving this situation.
Of course, it really doesn't matter what I think is really the reason
for animating dead being an evil act. In my world, plundering tombs, desecrating
sanctified areas or otherwise disturbing the dead is evil. But the final
say so is really up to each of us and what kind of world we really want
our players playing in. Just consider the whole world were such acts take
place, think about how it really effects each memeber of society, from
lower lower to upper upper classes. Make sure it's believable, not just
a few thoughts explaining how some might accept it, but how it affects
everything - religion, politics, economy, trade, anything you can think
of. I would imagine a world were the dead are raised commonly would make
it harder for some people to find decent jobs. Why employee some mortal
guards/armed forces when they dead are much more better (they follow orders
relentlessly, show no fear, need no food or payment)?
I'm sure a world could be conjured up where all these things work together.
On the other hand consider you're players. If they all happen to say,
ya, this is cool place, good. However, most the people I have gammed with
probably wouldn't care much for a place like that. I could honestly imagine
some gamers not returning to campaign in such a world. Real players are
affected by the real world in their decisions. This is my opinion, based
loosely around people I have gammed with (not to say the majority, but
rather a small, small portion of that).
Anyway, this is getting long, that's my 2 cents
Lotherio
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1062 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1065 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? mharelick
9/7/99 3:14 pm
The general perception only exists in our culture.
In a fantasy universe, this perception may not exist.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1062 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1066 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 9/7/99 4:18 pm
Sorry, just adding another two cents (with all these two cents being added
to the pot, shouldn't we have a dollar by now?)
Comparing animation of the dead to human sacrifice and cannibalism doesn't
quite seem right. Both those rituals evolve around the concept of a 'soul'.
I still see animation as disrupting this thought. Every culture, regardless
of what it did to the dead, still believed in one variation or another
of the soul. Sacrifice was usually done to give this (the sacrificed soul)
to the gods, cannibalism was meant for the cannibal to capture this soul
and strengthen himself. Going back further then these concepts (and the
concept of a soul in general) puts the individuals involved at a pretty
primitive level - not that they didn't know any better, but their instinct
was survival, when the game was scarce, eat your dead - of course they
probably didn't realize what risks they put themselves in when they did
this.
Also, if there was a world that animated their dead, wouldn't the dead
soon begin to outnumber the living? Also, even if they managed to animate
a corpse shortly after it's death, it would still deteriorate over time,
it's still flesh, some nasty is going to crawl into it and try to eat
it up - viruses and the like that would kill a mortal would just infest
and become much worse in an animated corpse. Clerics would probably spend
as much time helping the living as maintaining the dead.
Again, I don't see any problem with a world where concept of animating
corpses is accepted as being 'good'. It just doesn't seem logical. Based
on facts from our own world, we've lots of proofs that 'keeping the dead
around' just isn't a good idea.
There is a good book that deals with a fantasy world where this concept
is accepted as being quite normal. 'Fire Sea' by Margaret Weis and Tracy
Hickman, it's the third book in the Death Gate Trilogy. Its quite different
then most worlds, going back to the concept of the 'Hollow World' campaign
from D&D (Basic).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1063 by atesh42
---
Message 1067 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 9/7/99 5:52 pm
Well, in our world it might be a dollar, but in a fantasy world it might
be a.... :P
As I was saying about the raising of dead, a sort of stasis field is what
I was thinking of keeping the dead sustained(any GM can make his own spells).
True dead will almost definitly outnumber living eventually, therefore
there might be a limit on their life span or perhaps certain states of
war in which they would be used...I'm not quite clear on this idea, but
I'm not the one creating the world with this moral.
Cannibalism was also used to KEEP the spirits in the clan. The great warrior
who sacrificed his life would be great to have in a new, young warrior.
They may believe the spirit of a person is passed by consumption of flesh,
not by birth.
And one more gold ruple upon the stack,
-Atesh
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1066 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1068 of 6560 Reply
Re: Priest/Cleric Perceptions the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/7/99 6:46 pm
It is my honor, my Lord, to give you all the praise you deserve. I would
not have chosen you, were you not worthy.
Your rose..I where it proudly upon a silver chain that encircles my neck..and
the rose hangs gently down and rests eternally upon my chest.
Forever...The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1054 by Lord_Ixius
---
Message 1069 of 6560 Reply
The Past Week Vlademir1
(28/M/USA) 9/7/99 9:56 pm
OK...this has been a very busy week for alignment
first on paladins the Dungeons & Dragons Encyclopedia (c)1991 TSR has
a set of three types of powered up fighter as L Paladin N Knight C I want
to say Ranger or some such(please correct me if you have the book) the
point im making is L had religious powers like protection and healing
N had advanced strength, lower weapon cost and political ties and C has
Damaging powers of a random sort
Chaotic gods would give varing powers such as shapshifting(which has bonuses
to str, dex, con of both +/- depending on the form assumed) or random
breath weapons or random bonuses to...anything, but gods will give their
most devoted followers powers that affect various effects i have been
in camPAINs(sp intnded) where religiously devoted thieves and mages got
benefits imagine a CE thief who could shapeshift to whatever he wanted
to (think T2), it was UGLY. But if we want to discuss alignment fitting
class only fighters will be of any class as thieves will be nonLawful(actualy
that depends as many medival comunities didnt have a way to enforce such
laws and so rarely had them) Mages would need to be neutral because the
powers the average Magus(real life) is both good and evil depending on
the present need (ask one sometime) etc.
on the general alignment issue its diffrent from DM to DM. as we have
shown Lawful thieves could only exist where there are no laws against
their profession (think of the old west it was vigilanty justice. Think
of Batman, when has he ever been lawful? He and Gordon have always both
been Neutral, but both are good. Finaly realize that the divide between
law and chaos will or wont be big depending on your DMs interpretation
ie chaos is totaly random or chaos just wants anarchy, lawful is organized
and predictable or lawful always followes the law, no matter what.
The only thing alignment affects is the religious (Clerics and paladins
and sometimes others) the alignment just gives a DM an idea how the charicter
will act in most situations, not a stone set requiem of how they must
act, thats only those who wish to retain their religious powers. In many
cases then it will be their gods law, not local law the lawful will follow.
Also realize religion implies organized religion, chaos tends to be cultish
or worship independantly
*whew* lets see how much thinking we get from this this week
btw: has anyone had a religious character using a MI of opposing alignment???
and does the character know???
Vlademir Khan, Emperor of Velgeax
---
Message 1070 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? Vlademir1
(28/M/USA) 9/7/99 10:34 pm
OK, any Magic players here?? The world where such things happen would
be just like Phyrexia. Why you ask, well, simply put, recycling the dead
usualy fills the world with the refuse of the dead one way or the other
which means the living for all the given reasons would feel there was
no real point to life as their mortality realy didnt exist and they wouldnt
realy feel inclined to live a good life, also there is the problem of
overcrowding the rulers on such a world would want the most space for
their undead and as the advent of golems gave rise to larger and morepowerful
creatures the rulesr would start killing their people to make greater
headway in their power lust until, like the wars of the past have caused
us to in real life, they had destroyed all life and pleasentness to fule
their war machines. After all what is the AD&D definition of Evil but
selfserving and little besides? See Yagmoth (sp) in Magic and the Prydain
Chronicles by Lloyd Alexander
Now, to be technical, on our mainly Jeudeo-Christian Earth the religious
book of the Torah (sp) or Old Testiment lays down laws. Among the things
forbidden are: raising the dead, animating the dead, speaking with the
dead, etc* and associating with anyone who does. This being said i point
to the fact that in Christian belief Christ, despite IHVH's admonishments
against such centuries earlier, raised the dead and then later rose from
the dead himself.
.
.
.
*include here any necromantic spell you know of
btw i believe it is in Tibet they leave their dead to the birds
VK
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1067 by atesh42
---
Message 1071 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act?#2 Vlademir1
(28/M/USA) 9/7/99 10:38 pm
Before i forget i make the bible ststement because many clerical spells
are imitations of biblical miricles
(sp for all that)
Vlad Khan
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1070 by Vlademir1
---
Message 1072 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act?#2 the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/7/99 10:47 pm
Many good points and I agree with alot of what you have said, at least
your logic in the statements....Therefore, I forgive your countless spelling
errors.
my personal opinion....animating dead IS evil...animated dead have no
mind of their own and therefore a threat to the living, no matter what
alignment....if you really want to see that dead loved one again....take
him to a reincarnator or something....who wants Gramps decaying flesh
on the couch...NOT ME!!!!
never humbly,
The MooD Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1071 by Vlademir1
---
Message 1073 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? Pictii
(34/M/PA) 9/8/99 7:56 am
I thought the conquistedor's happened to the Aztecs...Actually wasn't
disease the reason the conquistedor's were able to do as much damage aas
they did. that and the silly Aztecs worshipped them
Pictii
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1062 by Umbratikus
---
Message 1074 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? Pictii
(34/M/PA) 9/8/99 8:02 am
Our "earth is not by a long stretch Jeudeo/christian, I would guess there
are alot more buhdist than you think also Hindu's
hell Moslums for that matter
I believe we "western infidels" are a distant minority to the earths truely
great religions
Pictii
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1070 by Vlademir1
---
Message 1075 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act?#2 mharelick
9/8/99 2:13 pm
The very fact they have no mind of their own is what makes them perfect
servants. They are slaves who don't care about being enslaved. This is
cheaper than hiring workers and not oppressive like forced labor.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1072 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1076 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act?#2 the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/8/99 2:19 pm
I agree...good point
THAT IS WHY IT IS AN EVIL ACT!!!!!!!!!!!
any questions???
-The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1075 by mharelick
---
Message 1077 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/8/99 2:28 pm
I don't know the exact numbers..and I agree that most of Asia is not Jeudeo/Christian...but,
North, South and Central America, Europe, and Australia, and lots and
lots of little islands ARE...as well as a great deal of Africa....That's
a lot of land to not have a majority in...Asia has more of one group of
people than anywhere else...but their singular number is not as large
as all the Jeudeo/Christian sects combined...
in simple english for many of you...
There ARE more Budhists than Baptists (yuk)...but not more than Christians
(in general)
words of wisdom
-The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1074 by Pictii
----
Message 1078 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/8/99 2:35 pm
Even the conquistadors could not wipe out the 10,000 to 1 odds the Aztecs
had over them by simple might and misleading notions of "gods"
The major cause of death to the Aztecs (and many other native groups)
was due to their lack of immunity for the diseases brought over from Europe.
remember...if you kill enough of your "worshipers" they start to fight
back...how long do you think it takes for you to realize that that "god"
is just a man???....and hasn't D&D taught us that gods CAN be killed!!!!!!
-The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1073 by Pictii
---
Message 1079 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/8/99 7:37 pm
Ummm, I really hate to beat a "dead" horse, but then, this is my evil
twin, dragn_b*%ch, talking........a-hem.... If you look to the gods of
said religions, ie: Hinduism, Buddhism, they have in their pantheon, our
Christian God. So, in my humble opinion, (another silver falcon added
to said pile) we ARE all of one origianl mind set,or religion if you prefer.
Some of said religions revear the dead to the point of worshipping them.
Phaoroh, who was worshipped while alive, was also still worshipped in
death. All of said persons remains were kept close by, so that when he
AROSE, he'd be whole again. Granted, priests didn't raise them, but it
was still believed it would happen on it's own.
I also believe that the act of ressurection isn't evil...it's what is
done AFTERWARDS that is the evil part. If you believe in the concept of
souls, by the time the raising has happened, the soul has already gone
to heaven...or where ever you believe.
The two Dragns_
(hehe.....we "both" had a hand in it...) hehe
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1074 by Pictii
---
Message 1080 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/8/99 8:14 pm
So now that this has degenerated into a discussion on world religeon (there
are more people on this planet named muhammad than any other name btw)
I think that as DM's we have to play with alignment a little and deside
what it means to each of us. Chances are if you think good and evil are
subjective to the culture (cultural relativism) you will think that animating
dead is also subjective. Do goblins think to themselves "I'm evil hehehe"?
Anyway, if you think that good and evil is objective no matter what the
culture (moral absolutism) then you probably think that animating dead
is evil to everyone. So, just think about it and make the call, there
is no right answer, but if your *players* question why paladins can't
have zombie slaves as squires, you should be able to explain the way good
and evil acts work in your campaign and your mind. Being a DM means you
have to deal with tough questions, like this question of undead. Semper
Peratus should be the DM motto
Mr Furious
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1079 by dragn_lady
----
Message 1081 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act? fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 9/8/99 9:21 pm
(My Turn)
Furious makes a very good point (several actually). The one I refer to
here is how your world views good and evil.
Hitler thought Jews should be killed. The german nation agreed (mostly)
and so for that culture killling millions was not evil. But for the rest
of the world it was very evil.
I could see, therefor, a world in which a culture belived in easily and
readily animating their dead, but the rest of the world would still think
this as evil
I could not conceive of a world in which EVERY culture excepted this practice
as good and proper.
However, like the discussion on Paladins and LN, this DM's forum has degenerated
into a debate of ethics. As far as the game is concerned, if the DM wants
it, and his players except it, LET IT BE!
Babblings from,
The Blind Sage of Elversult
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1080 by m_furious
---
Message 1082 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act?#2 mharelick
9/8/99 10:42 pm
No, an evil act would be to force you will on another creature. Since
the undead have no will, no soul, and no mind, you are not forcing your
will upon them. Animating the dead is just making a pile of bones dance
the way you want it to.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1076 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1083 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act?#2 the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/8/99 11:44 pm
"No, an evil act would be to force you will on another creature. Since
the undead have no will, no soul, and no mind, you are not forcing your
will upon them."
If you aren't forcing "your" will on the undead...then whose will are
they using???? If they have NO WILL they wouldn't be able to do anything..would
they???...WOULD THEY?!?!?! "The Puppeteer" is imposing HIS will...I hope
I don't have to explain this again...SHEESH!!
Patiently,
The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1082 by mharelick
---
Message 1084 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act?#2 mharelick
9/9/99 10:38 am
Moody,
This is correct, the mage/ priest is using his will to control the undead.
However the mage is not doing it against the wishes of the dead because
the dead have no wishes.
Another example is that we are imposing our designs on trees by turning
them into wood and then houses. Since they have no minds to bend or break
in this endeavor, chopping them down and building with them is not evil.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1083 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1085 of 6560 Reply
Re: Why is animating dead an evil act?#2 the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/9/99 3:35 pm
It is the general concensus of humanity that there is a BIG difference
between a tree and a man. Even a corpse, who, by some's beliefs, is nothing
but an empty shell, if reanimated, is offensive to all living men (I mean
everyone to any PC people out there)....even Evil people acknowlege that
this is an evil act...it is a desicration to any living, sencient being.
Now..if you want to try to make this into a LESS Evil act...you could
say that some Good Mage/Priest could use reanimated beings to fight Evil
or do Good things (by imposing THEIR will on them)..but, they would still
accept that what they were doing was WRONG and therefor EVIL...
I have agreed with everyone in that individual DMs can choose to interperet
situations such as these however they see fit and we can make worlds and
civilizations whose rules are WAY different from our common, accepted
principles...but, it is alot easier for everyone..especially NEW players
entering under you...if they didn't have to live with the constant confusion
as to whether or not this or that is EVIL or GOOD. For instance, there
are games that I play in where I am absolutely not familiar with the different
gods and rules of the various societies I have been introduced to (SpellJammer)...certainly
if me, the player, knew everything about the different worlds, I would
know how to act and react in any situation...but, isn't it better and
more exciting that I don't?? I will act in ways that our customary to
me (my character) and not neccessarily to those of the society I am in
and around. But, this is an interesting plot driver that will only come
up occassionally. Not something I have to struggle with constantly...and,
eventually, I learn to deal with things when I am there. I would hate,
though, if everyday in my adventure Up was Down and Left was Right..just
because the DM is some unintelligent, sick moron who couldn't understand
basic principles enough to use them properly in regular roleplaying.
I do enjoy this forum so that many DMs can learn and grow beyond the basic
levels and onward to exciting and great adventuring...Good Luck!!!
More Greatness provided by,
The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1084 by mharelick
---
Message 1086 of 6560 Reply
Spell Points or Fire and Forget? m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/9/99 10:15 pm
For me the presented way of handleing magic sucks pretty hard. It works
good mechanically, but makes little to no sense in the practical world
in which my games are set (I try hard to make every thing make sense).
At first I had a straight points system. Mages/Priests could cast any
spell in their repitore as long as they had the points for it (just add
the spells per day per level all together where 2nd level spells are worth
two points etc.) but that made VERY powerful mages. I've tried several
versions of this and now I use a system that combines the idea of merorization
with spell points. What do you all have for house rules (if any!)?
Mr. Furious
---
Message 1087 of 6560 Reply
Re: Spell Points or Fire and Forget? SCA_Bard
9/9/99 10:27 pm
We use a hybrid that seems to help keep game balance but gives some flexibility.
Modify at will!
A mage or priest has to memorize half (round up) of their spells for any
given level. The rest can be cast on the fly.
You could combine all the 'on the fly' spells into a point pool, I suppose...we've
never done that. It would help with the 'fire and forget' nonesense.
Something else I'd like to try is to make magic user players write poems
for each spell. 1 4 line stanza per spell level. If the *player* has it
memorized and can repeat it perfectly, by heart, the mage/priest doesn't
need to memorize. Otherwise, memorize, and get a cheat sheet. And GM gets
to keep the poems between gaming sessions! (unless the player spends serious
game time studying).
I propose this as a student of things like higher math. I find that, if
I do not use things like Fourier transforms regularly, I forget how to
do them. I need to study my textbooks before I remember how to add infinite
sums of sines and cosines and other terribly boring things. But the calculus
I use regularly I have at my command. I can take derivatives til the cows
come home.
This would unfortunately leave the door open for hundreds of stanzas of
magic missile per game...maybe limit it by Con points or something?
Also the problem of an Int 11 player with an Int 18 mage/Wis 18 priest...
Maybe that's why I haven't tried to implement it yet...hmm...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1086 by m_furious
---
Message 1088 of 6560 Reply
Happy Anniversary!! --Favorite DM moment m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/9/99 10:33 pm
WOW this club is a year old...I didn't think that yahoo clubs went back
that far...to celebrate I think we should all share our favorite DMing
moments.
Mine has to be when a showdown between a PC and his arch enemy went tragically
wrong. The one-on-one fight degenerated into an all out brawl between
both parties. The PC's were loosing, there was a crevass nearby that one
of the PC's knew of so he went for it. The lightly armored PC slipped
down the rocky crevass and landed in the bottom in a Troll's lair! The
rest of the PC's tried to follow, but they were more heavily armored and
slightly larger than the leader. Needless to say they got kinda stuck
half way down the crevass. One of the villians tried to jump down the
crevass as well, which reasulted in knocking out most of the party that
was stuck in the whole. The one PC who made it out the bottom (with the
trolls) heard all the commotion and desided to use a charge off his fireball
wand UP THE CREVASS! Well that really hurt his whole party and his arch
enemy. It also killed the PC mage's familiar. This caused her to go into
a fit of rage (she was slightly unstable) ending in her throwning her
own fireball BACK DOWN THE CREVASS!! Well that killed just about everyone.
I'm not that big a fan of PC deaths, but it was such an absurd circumstance
it just will stick in my mind forever.
Mr. Furious
---
Message 1089 of 6560 Reply
Re: Happy Anniversary!! --Favorite DM mo shinto_gaijin
9/10/99 2:49 am
OK .. Here goes ..
The PC's (having just saved a village from the forces of a "mortal enemy")
were in the middle of the celebration the villagers threw for them.
Turns out the "attack on the village" was a ploy to wear down the spell
casters, and weaken the fighters, in preparation for the real attack.
The second wave hits just as the dwarven fighter and human thief (long-time
drinking buddies) are looking for their third keg of ale. Only the Half-elf
Cleric/Magic User and Paladin are close to sober.
Just as they are mopping up the last couple of attackers, the leader steps
in, and begins swatting the dwarf around with a two-handed sword. The
Paladin charges and is knocked unconscious, the thief tries to backstab,
but fails his "move silently" roll miserably, and is near-mortally wounded,
the half-elf has long since run out of offensive spells, and had spent
the last few rounds flying above the melee trying to figure out what to
do.
The dwarf moves in again, trying to protect the unconscious paladin, as
the c/m remebers he still has "fire shield" cast.
(The fight against the Enemies' Leader wasn't all that one-sided, they
had worn him down pretty well, by now, too .. the fight, depending on
the dice, could have gone either way, but it was looking bad for the PC's.)
Just as the leader deals another painful blow to the dwarf, the cleric/magic-user
comes flying towards him, screaming at the top of his lungs, waving his
flail, and the leader swipes him out of the air, doing massive damage
to the half-elf, but (remember the fire shield) double damage to himself
.. which was just enough to put him out for good.
Looking back, I guess you had to be there, but it was quite ingeneous
on the PCs' part .. and they learned a pretty good lesson about letting
their guard down.
The rest of the "favorite moments" all involve miraculous die rolls ..
successfully casting feeblemind on a mind flayer .. polymorph other on
a dracolich ..
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1088 by m_furious
---
Message 1090 of 6560 Reply
Re: Happy Anniversary!! --Favorite DM mo Beard_Y
(17/M/Bristol, UK) 9/10/99 7:23 am
As a fairly new DM with no characters above second level I'd have to say
my favorite moment was when a first level thief killed a large group of
doppleganger with a silver dagger, mind you a dwarf with a battle-axe
did try first but he kept missing. Actually the whole episode is posted
at my own D&D club, http://clubs.yahoo.com/dandwithbeardy.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1088 by m_furious
---
Message 1091 of 6560 Reply
Hasbro Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 9/10/99 10:09 am
Just to let everyone know, for those who haven't heard yet - Hasbro is
now buying WotC. There's a nice article about it at the Wizards home page,
http://www.wizards.com
I don't really see how this is going to change things to much - maybe
it'll be easier to buy the new source material, from Kay-Bee?
---
Message 1092 of 6560 Reply
Wow....a whole year.... dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/10/99 12:09 pm
It is hard to believe that I have been a member of this club for a whole
year now. Besides being pregnant and hot, I can't really remember what
I was doing a year ago. Now, I'm chasing after my 9 month old, who is
crawling all over, and still hot. Hmmm....recurring theme with the hot.
About fave DM memory...That would probably have to be when my husbands
mage befriended a juvenile White Dragon. It just wasn't my day, I guess.
I tried to freeze him and all, but he was just too darn cute. Well, was
anyway. Said mage has since lost both eyes, and a couple fingers, but
he is still around and kicking....basically because said Dragon gave her
life for him....freaky, huh??? I know, I know....White Dragons don't make
friends.. I tried with this one....really I did....I ended up just letting
the dice rolls decided. Fun time. Actually, there are more good memories,
but not time yet to post..hehehe...
Dragn_lady
---
Message 1093 of 6560 Reply
Favorite moments Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 9/10/99 2:47 pm
Well, I've only been here a month or two, but congrats to the club for
it's anniversary.
I don't know if I have one particular favorite moment while dm'ing, but
a lot of funny things that have happened.
I do have a favorite moment in gaming from a time when I was a player.
Aside from myself, the DM and one other player are the only other two
with a good bit of AD&D experience, the other five guys where fairly new
to it. We found ourselves in the ruins of some old keep. Of course, someone
said 'Let's split up and cover more ground'. We did despite any protests
by me and the other experienced player, not even the DM laughing at us
convinced the other players against this decision. One group of three
are outside in a courtyard and are attacked by some gnolls, or maybe even
something smaller then these. Unbeknownest to most of us, a mage in the
party some how has this fireball scroll, a 10 point fireball. The DM handed
it to him, told him to 'use it wisely' but didn't hint at what he may
really need it for (there was a planned spot for it in the adventure).
He pulls out the scroll and says he's using it. The DM goes wide eyed
and asks "Really?" We all figure out whats going on eventually and try
to convince him against it, the keep wasn't really big enough for a spell
that size to begin with - not to mention its old and falling apart already
and more then enough power for the monsters. Needless to say, he is adamant
about this. Explaining his wizard wants to do it, as he is a cowardly
type and afraid for his life at the moment (not to mention low enough
level not to realize the potential distruction). He casts it, the DM shakes
his head, makes a few dice rolls (saving throws and such for the building
- the creatures are very obviously dead, not to mention the wizard and
his part of the group). The buildings collapse, the large underground
labyrinth/dungeon caves in from the weight and we all end up in this mass
tomb, with all the monsters. He get's the look that says 'f**k' as he
realizes the power we warned him about. It was funny for maybe me and
the DM, the other experienced player was mad cause the other guy wouldn't
listen to him. The other new guys were just pretty much shocked that this
happened. Eventually one new guy asked if his character survived would
he have gotten exp for all the monsters that died in the keep (the other
experienced guy grinned and said 'plus the other dead pc's). Needless
to say, I think we all gained a little experience that night - some in
the game, others in how low some of us will stoop in our stupidity. I
don't know if it sounds funny being explained like this, maybe add it
up to the list of 'had to be there' events?
---
Message 1094 of 6560 Reply
Re: Hasbro Lord_Ixius
(20/M/Orange Park, FL) 9/10/99 5:52 pm
Isn't that funny...
/~^*^~\
Lord Ixius
of Canston Manor
and
Keeper of the Silver Rose
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1091 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1095 of 6560 Reply
Re: Hasbro the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/11/99 12:41 am
hmm...well, let's see...I'll take this pokemon game for my nintendo..um....and...OH..I
know...I'll take those three D&D books..yeah, the kids will just love
these!!
Sarcastically,
The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1094 by Lord_Ixius
---
Message 1096 of 6560 Reply
nEw PeRsOn AlErT Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/11/99 9:16 pm
Hey, I just signed up to your club, I have a stack of AD&D books as high
as my knees, Ive been playing Forgotten Realms for about 10 years now,
I was there for the fall of the Avatars, I was there when the knights
of Myth Drannor set the floating tower free and killed the beholders in
Daggerdale.
Needless to say, I got into DMing about 5 years ago, but I still play
as a player once in a while. Right away I'll be doing my biggest project
yet, the continuation of our spring campaign...(I have a rule about being
locked up in my house all night, especially in the summer.) So primarily
my camopaign runs from Fall to spring, and when they open up the patio
at the bar its time to pack the books away for a while. Anyway, I'd like
to talk to other DM's so I joined this club. I'm interested in hearing
about storyline ideas and other things like that from anyone who'll take
the time to post them.
-Orgy
---
Message 1097 of 6560 Reply
Lotsa stuff Postmodern1
(M/Mpls MN) 9/13/99 1:38 pm
First and foremost, congratz to the Club for a year of great gaming debates!!
Hopefully, we'll all completely fail to agree on anything for a long time
to come!!! Also, thanks to Yahoo!
Second, and related to the 3rd Ed. stuff: Did anyone notice TSR put out
3x5" paperback handbooks of all 1st Ed. books over the summer? I just
saw them today and at $10, they are less expensive than the originals
were, go figure! Last chance to get OA, WSG or the like...
And a personal favorite gaming moment:
The party is hunting (hunted by?) a adult-ish blue dragon and have managed,
after several days work, to track it to it's lair high in a steppe plateau.
The party descends into the lair from the top of the plateau (DM giggles)
and approaches what appears to be a sleeping dragon, unleashing every
damage-based spell they own and following it up with a blitz attack by
the warriors in the group. The dragon then drops the projected image,
descends from the concealed cavern above them, and proceeds to tear the
party apart (DM giggles again). Horrible battle ensues, both sides taking
major damage, area attacks from PC mages doing as much damage to the party
as the dragon. The dragon adopts the strategey of snatching PCs, flying
out the top of the cavern, and dropping them to their deaths over the
side of the plateau. The last character standing is a thief (without a
magical weapon of his own) who quickly snatches up a fallen warrior's
intellegent blade and proceeds to attempt to climb out of the cavern.
The dragon returns, looking for the last tasty morsel who invaded his
cave. Spotting the thief on his way out, the enraged dragon charges the
PC, who failed his climb walls roll and is starting to fall. After two
successful rolls on the tumbling proficiency and a successful to hit at
-4, the thief spins, draws the fallen warrior's blade and impales the
dragon's skull, killing it. They still talk about that one .... Next episode:
How does one thief get seven dead bodies back to town? Hmmm ...
Last thought: I missed getting in on the original debate, but I believe
a mage or cleric "imposing his will" on a corpse by animating it is as
inherently evil as me imposing my will on a cotton t-shirt ... it was
alive at one time, too, ya know. Sorry DL.
-Bob
---
Message 1098 of 6560 Reply
Re: Lotsa stuff Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/13/99 3:07 pm
Personally, I hate that spell, Animate dead. It has reeked havoc on our
clerics over the years, especially since no one is quite sure what to
do with it. This is the way I have handled that spell in the past.
If the god has nothing to do with death or honour, by all means use the
spell to your hearts content. If the spell appears to be interfering with
the ideals of the god, say kelemvor, god of death in FR where its seen
as an abomination, or the lord of war, Tempus, where te newly risen dead
could be fallen comrades and therefore denied access to their home....
For the most part, i take it on a case by case basis. Most clerics may
use the spell without problems, but the few who do have problems had better
spend their time with a different prayer and forget about that one all
together.
I guess it's the old "There is no bad magic, only bad intentions" theory.
I would like to hear about any good traps out there that any of you have.
They would be (preferably) traps where there is a way to escape from them.
I tend to subscribe to the idea that in Fantasy roleplay, there is always
a back door. The problem is finding it....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1097 by Postmodern1
----
Message 1099 of 6560 Reply
Trapped Again atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 9/13/99 3:10 pm
On your subject of traps, have you ever read the Grimtooth's Book of Traps?
It's fun if not always appropriate. The only problem with them is that
it is usually to kill the players...sigh..too bad. My recommendation is
Dragon #254. It had very nicely detailed traps with damage choices allowed
to be made by you. You should still be able to get it from TSR.
-Atesh
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1098 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1100 of 6560 Reply
Fond memories... SCA_Bard
9/13/99 6:05 pm
I love messing with the heads of my PCs. Two such incidents vie for my
favorite evil GM moment...
During character creation, one half-elf tells me he doesn't know his character's
elven father's identity. Then the elven cleric tells me his brother has
been missing for several decades...about long enough for him to sire a
half-elven son, it turned out...not that I told the player that...
The party separated, and the half-elf sought out his father and had a
nice reunion. He went back to the party and recounted his tale, eventually
naming his father...and the cleric's player's eyes bugged out halfway
across the table! He was speechless for several minutes.
The second was much darker...I tricked the party white necromancer into
thinking she was aiding some oppressed white necromancers send a messenger
to get help. Instead, she ends up helping with a blood sacrifice...just
as the rest of the party busts down the door, looking for the bloodmage
they'd been tracking and who, they just discovered, had killed another
party member as a sacrifice.
The timing was perfect and the reactions were priceless. It was a very
down game for the players, I admit, but I enjoyed seeing the trap close.
---
Message 1101 of 6593 Reply
Re: Lotsa stuff shinto_gaijin
9/13/99 8:13 pm
In response to the 3x5 handbooks ..
I searched for them on Amazon.com .. haven't found them yet .. I'll keep
looking, though.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1097 by Postmodern1
---
Message 1102 of 6593 Reply
Here's one for ya Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/14/99 3:26 am
Here's a nasty little peace of business i handed doewn to my PC's last
winter.
They were sitting in the old skull inn in shadowdale when they were approached
by a man who needed a package delivered to the mosque of tyr in Daggerdale.
It's only a couple days of good riding, the pay was good, and it gave
them a chance to run into zhents and goblins who patrol the area. They
set off, delivered the package, and were just settling in at the local
tavern when they heard a huge explosion. Rushing outside they found that
the mosque had been almost totally destroyed. The stranger had given them
a letter to deliver the next day to the mosque. The letter basically said
that they were agents of the Zhentilar and that they were showing themselves
to make a show of force. They didnt know that the explosive was in the
package, and the were under orders not to open the letter. Needless to
say, they ended up crossing almost the entire realm trying to get away
from the priests of tyr...
A few months later a player introduced a new cleric to the party, a cleric
of tyr. He was a questing priest, and his quest was to....you guessed
it....track down the assassins who had destroyed the the mosque in Daggerdale.
He blurted it out one night when he was drunk. I hadnt informed any of
the players of this beforehand. The looks on their faces as they heard
his story were priceless...
Nobody ever told the priest who they were, and a little while later he
was killed in a battle with some ogres in the spine of the world. Funny,
there were plenty of healing potions floating around.....
Of course they let him die on purpose. My wife was among the players and
she was freaked out all week....she couldnt wait to get back the next
sunday and see what happened next!
-Orgy
---
Message 1103 of 6593 Reply
My favorite cloak Calitrojan
9/14/99 9:05 am
Hmm, a whole year and to think I did not get in on this sooner.
MY favorite DM moment was a few years back. My old group of players were
still little fledglings with relatively low level characters and spent
their time saving princesses and whacking goblins about. Well I developed
a problem, they seemed to be on this hardon hunt for magical items (as
if I was throwing them around like it was Christmas... someone had a cloak
of elvenkind and everyoneone else just got crazy with jealousy). Well
after they killed their fellow for the cloak and started looking at each
other with those greedy glances, I developed my own sort of revenge. The
cloak of no left turning, fatefully disguised as a cloak of elven kind.
I left it in a pile of trash that the thief couldn't help but pick through
after they had disposed of the ogre that guarded it. Needless to say after
he put it on he couldn't take it off and we spent the next year getting
a good laugh out of the thief who could only turn right.
View Replies to this Message
---
Message 1104 of 6593 Reply
Re: Here's one for ya dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/14/99 10:05 am
OMG!!!! Laugh!!!! oh, man...that's priceless.
I remember one time, as a player though, not a DM... one character that
my husband was DMing, was buying all sorts of things that he thought he
needed....well, it was played out that he bought no clothes....just the
top half of plate mail for a dwarf. So, he was played as if he was running
around with no pants on...just half plate mail... He stuck close to my
character for some reason...maybe because she was 6' tall and carried
a well used longsword.............
Dragn_lady
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1102 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1105 of 6593 Reply
3 moths ago Beard_Y
(17/M/Bristol, UK) 9/14/99 12:59 pm
A player brought his character over to my game world from Forrgotten Realms,
he was lucky the character was of a permitted type, he never mentioned
his XP to me though. Has any-one else had memorable experience with players
succesfully transferring characters from other systems?
---
Message 1106 of 6593 Reply
Re:Shinto Postmodern1
(M/Mpls MN) 9/14/99 1:08 pm
Hey Shinto, if you want I can try to get some more info from the store
that had those 3x5 paperbacks, email me.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1101 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1107 of 6593 Reply
tiny 1st edition books m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/14/99 10:31 pm
I've seen 'em at almost every major gaming store in the boston area. Thr
price really ranges on them depending where you are...I'm not sure they
are 'offical books' either. My impression is that they have no isbn number
so Amazon and Barns'n'noble won't touch 'em. Check out your local gaming
shop first.
These books are supercool because they decrease the weight of my DM pack
by about 2 pounds! I do totally 2nd edition but the 1st edition DMG, OA,
and 'unearthed manure' come in handy from time to time so I lug 'em around.
Now I just have these little tidy reference books:)
Mr. Furious
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1106 by Postmodern1
---
Message 1108 of 6593 Reply
Role of Miniatures m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/14/99 10:41 pm
Just wondering how much you guys use miniatures. I have made a few custom
white grid boards that I can use dry erase markers on. I map stuff out
as I go, adding to the drawing as the PC's enter new rooms and such. I
don't paint so most of my minis are just lead colored. I also make use
of small medeival plasic toy soldiers I've gathered over the years for
baddies. It is not as pretty as Warhammer but at least the PC's can visualize
the action.
So what is the role of miniatures in *your* campaign?
Mr. Furious
---
Message 1109 of 6593 Reply
Re: 3 moths ago Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/14/99 11:18 pm
Ok, try this....Im running a low to mid-power level campaign, mostly minor
magic and no power gaming, and this guy brings over a 12th level ogre
fighter/cleric/assassin with multiple spec. and hit points piled waist
high...I was so busy getting the other players set up that i didnt notice
until this guy started tossing flamestrikes around in the middle of a
battle. Always one to play fairly, I decided to strike him with lightning
about 50 times until he was dead....I wasnt a complete jerk about it,
I gave him saving throws for half damage.....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1105 by Beard_Y
----
Message 1110 of 6593 Reply
Your Homepages... TheTruckerBear
(40/M/Northern California) 9/14/99 11:27 pm
I'd like to visit the Ad&d homepages of those who post here. My own URL
is www.angelfire.com/or/sirbeef
Please feel free to email me with your URL's so I can put links to them
on my page.
(and tell me what you think of the sound bite on my page...)
---
Message 1111 of 6593 Reply
Re: Role of Miniatures mharelick
9/14/99 11:39 pm
We use them constantly. They are very helpful in visualizing scenarios,
marching order, etc.
I have about 100 minatures. Some are painted and some are not. Some fit
the characters very close, and sometimes I just use a goblin for any small
monster.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1108 by m_furious
---
Message 1112 of 6593 Reply
Re: Role of Miniatures Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/14/99 11:50 pm
Miniatures...I have a bunch of them, I used to paint in my spare time
but I dont do it anymore. I used to use them often, but I found that when
theyre out on the board the battles turn into "wargaming" situations...it
took a lot of the drama out because they were focusing on the little guys
instead of the stuff i was telling him. +, they bang the hell out of them....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1108 by m_furious
---
Message 1113 of 6593 Reply
Re: Role of Miniatures Beard_Y
(17/M/Bristol, UK) 9/15/99 4:54 am
I use minatures in my campagin only when one player wants to play several
characters. So I normally only use minatures for Warhammer 2000 and the
like.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1108 by m_furious
---
Message 1114 of 6593 Reply
Re: Role of Miniatures dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/15/99 9:03 am
The Sage and I have painted several minis, but use them mainly for looks.
We have occasionally used them in play, but have found that using a big
dry erase board is better for visualizing the battles. It really helps
to look up to see what's happening, instead of looking at a piece of paper
on the table...especially if at the time you have a squirming 9 month
old in your lap!
Dragn_lady
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1113 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1115 of 6593 Reply
Re: Role of Miniatures shinto_gaijin
9/15/99 9:14 am
I tend to agree with "Orgy of Souls" .. for visualization they are a great
tool, but imagination and the occaisional map or sketch have always sufficed
for my friends and I, where role-playing is involved .. for War Hammer
and other wargames, it is perfect, but I think it distracts from the role
playing.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1112 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1116 of 6593 Reply
aNy ThOuGhTs? Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/15/99 1:23 pm
I have ventured into the realm of Ravenloft with an adventure I picked
up at a used book store. I don't have the box set for ravenloft, as I
had a bad experience with this game (terrible DM) So what Ive done is
taken the adventure and adapted it. The PC's arent quite sure where they
are, and none of the townspeople know for sure where the city is located
because they are not allowed to travel or go to school. I have found this
to be an excellant setting for these adventures without the fear rolls,
fate cards and all the other stuff tat goes along with Ravenloft. Good
DMing is a way better alternitive to dice rolling your fear. and Ive managed
to suck my players into this story completely. I was wondering if any
of you have played ravenloft and what you like/dislike about the setting.
-Orgy
---
Message 1117 of 6593 Reply
Miniatures and Visualization the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/15/99 2:22 pm
I am in agreement with the idea that, although they can be helpful, they
do take a little of the focus away from the game itself. I like the dry
erase board or a peice of paper much more. On top of that, I only really
need to detail the action when there is a question as to how or why something
happened or can't happen to a particular PC or group. I, as either DM
or player attempt to visualize the battle or situation in my head and
can get an idea as to whether or not someone can do a particular action.
If the image is not clear to the PCs or I misunderstood the nature of
their actions (especially leading up to the actions in question) then
a picture or diagram of somesort can become neccessary (or minatures if
you like)
Like many things we do...it is up to the DM to decide what is best for
his or her campaign.
::not important..but, even in fantasy gaming, how can some of you compare
a dead person or being to that of something like a t-shirt??::
-The Mood Dragon
----
Message 1118 of 6593 Reply
Favorite Moments... the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/15/99 2:35 pm
One of my favorite gaming moments has to come from my time playing under
the great Lord Ixius
We had this friend who Lord Ixius allowed to be a Death Knight, well....he
was given control of 5 other Death Knights and a very large army of various
evil and nasty things (Skeletal Warriors, Skeletons, Wraiths, etc)...this
individual (or moron for short) named his Knights: Vinny, Bobby, Guido,
Maurice, and Knuckles....now, you have to be thinking "funny but really
stupid"...even better is to know that I gave him those names as a JOKE
and he kept them. He also had 2 Dog-oliches (yes, I came up with that
name too) named Pieces and Chunks. This Death Knight had his forces slowly
taking over all of Ansalon and he was starting to move them so as to converge
for a great attack on the mighty High Clerist Tower. First, he had to
take a small (and I repeat SMALL) fortification in the Solamnic area.
This place held only a few 100 men, some catapults (I think 5), and was
only proteted by a single wall, once penetrated, would be the end of that
resistance force. To add more to the advantage of the Death Knight was
that it was known that his large and powerful army was moving toward this
place and that he had another force between them and the Clerist Tower
so that no reinforcements would come to help them...They Were Alone...think
of the fear factor of the men!! Obviously, one would think that there
would be no problem taking over this place with a force as large as his.
So..let me tell you what he did.....Under cover of darkness, when his
army is the most powerful...he cast a spell making his group of 100 Skeletal
Warriors completely invisible and they charged the wall!...OK, for those
whose didn't catch that..THEY CHARGED THE WALL!!!!! now...uh...being the
young lookout on the wall, I can't SEE anything coming...but THERE IS
A BIG DUST CLowD, THE LOUD CLANGING OF BARDING, AND THE OTHER SOUNDS OF
AN ARMY COMING TOWARD US FROM THE EAST...adding to his stupidity, he also
startd the charge a good distance away so that the opposing army had time
to move the catapults all to the one wall and begin to fire randomly into
the darkness. The small army managed to wipe out the entire group of Skeletal
Warriors. Upset that his army was so easily stopped in this first attack,
he decides to take his 1000 Skeletons and attempt to storm the gate. The
gate was a small one..only about 10 men (shoulder to shoulder) wide and
was made of iron bars. Since NONE of the skeletons had missile weapons
(only swords...Death Knight's decision) they couldn't keep any of the
archers on the walls from taking them out one at a time or even kill any
through the bars of the gate. Death Knight orders the skeletons try to
LIFT the gate, never mind that they have NO muscle and 10 is not enough
to lift the heavy gate and no more skeletons can help. Oh...I forgot to
mention that he gave them no plan of action before charging and hundreds
of the skeletons "died" by being crushed by their fellows all charging
in behind them. OK..nothing seems to be budging the gate and all they
need is to get passed that to defeat these mortals.."OH..I KNOW!!" says
the foolish Death Knight.."I'll have my skeletons CLIMB the wall." Well..hmmm..should
we go into the surrounding forest and build ladders, seige engines, you
know, NORMAL STUFF..NO WAY!!!..lets have the skeletons stack themselves
into a pyramid and climb up that way. (Now..I will let it be known that
I had positoned myself as this Death Kinghts advisor..I had a Chaotic
Neutral Fighter who was picking the more powerful side at the time to
keep myself from being killed by the Death Knight when I was his prisoner..anyway..I
gave him the pyramid idea because I was being so amused by the fact that
he was doing prety much anything I said that I couldn't control my Sadistic
nature..a fact that Lord Ixius was not happy about, yet finding everything
amusing as well)
Part 2 next->
-The Mood Dragon
---
Message 1119 of 6593 Reply
Favorite Moments...2 the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/15/99 2:40 pm
Part 2
OK...stacking and climbing skeletons...well, the small army in the fortification
decided to pour boiling oil on the skeletons....wouldn't you know it...they
didn't make their DEX check and some bones came a' tumblin' down (hehe)
this destroyed a few of them from being crushed under their mates...they
continued to make the effort for 3 more tries, each time failing and falling
and "dying"...suffice it to say...they retreated to the woods to regroup
and rest as day was almost upon us. After arguing for 20 mins with the
Death Knight as to how to make his camp safe (I did still want to help
my friend and figured I had amused myself enough and wanted to see some
victory) I decided to take my case to the DM (Lord Ixius) knowing that
I would be able to logically argue my plan and have him agree to some
points we had in question so that The Death Knight would be able to survive
a little longer giving us one more chance at victory. The DM agreed and
I felt my plan was set (Death Knight and I had come to an agreement..or
so I thought) Stupidly, the Death Knight put HIS camp plan into action
instead of mine and, as Lord Ixius could see on my face, I decided instantly
that I would see to his total destruction, PERSONALLY. I allowed him to
keep his plan and watch as the DM (controling the little army) attacked
during that day...Death Knight's army was weakened by the fact that he
could not use half of his remaining troops because they cannot be in the
light. Fireballs flew into the center of the encampment, killing those
useless creatures of darkness...all he had was his skeletons...and he
DARED to look to me for help!!! After ignoring his pleas for a short while,
I advised him to move his troops to the one safe place....the clearing
leading to the water. But, what I, in fact, did, was to lead him and his
troops to the one place where he was trapped. And thus, it was over! Surprisingly
enough...I didn't follow the troops (as the Knight would have expected)...I
snuck away...back toward the fortification. I told them I was a prisoner
and, since they never saw me helping the Death Knight, they believed me
and took me in...I was SAVED :)
Following the humiliating defeat, the remainder of the armies of evil
were easily defeated by people who did not fear them and mocked them all
across Ansalon.
And...I WAS A HERO!!!!
Oh well...it sure was fun...even if it was a little unethical...but...that's
the way the character should be played..don't you think?
I love the Guild..
The Mood Dragon
---
Message 1120 of 6593 Reply
Re: Favorite Moments...2 tolin_goldbeard
(20/M/The Netherlands) 9/16/99 9:01 am
Great stuff!
I always enjoy a single chaotic neutral guy in a campaign. I had lots
of fun when one of my best AD&D buddies played a half elf charlatan CN:
"You have been healed my son...." or "I'm the bookie: Place your bets
on the fight here.." and then just run... Too bad my character (I play
too) was a gambling addict, I almost lost 50GP but I intimidated it out
of him when we stopped him...
As for the miniatures, I use colored Pawns for the PC's, Black Pawns (chess)
for enemies and white pawns for allies (npc's) along with a little explaining.
Tolin Goldbeard
Tolin Goldbeard
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1119 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1121 of 6593 Reply
Gaming fun the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/16/99 3:16 pm
I love gaming...I would say playing more than DMing (except for that sick
feeling of power I get by having ALL the control) but I have always had
a way of moving things around as a player and it lets me get more personal
with the PCs
To the DMG: would you say you enjoy playing or DMing more?
just a little survey...
-The Mood Dragon
---
Message 1122 of 6593 Reply
Re: Gaming fun Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/16/99 3:29 pm
Id have to say DMing. Playing can be fun, but crafting the story itself
is what I'm addicted to. I love watching pc's yelling and screaming in
the middle of thier final battle with the evil necromancer or practically
jumping out of their skin at the sight of that great red dragon....When
you play you only get to wander around and explore these things. As the
DM I'm limited only by imagination (wich isnt much of a barrier)
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1121 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1123 of 6593 Reply
Re: aNy ThOuGhTs? dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/16/99 4:39 pm
I also had a bad experience playing in Ravenloft. Again, I believe it
was because the DM was not a good DM....he isn't that good a player either,
but that is another story. As far as my experience, I don't htink I'll
ever be playing Ravenloft again. When I first heard about the setting,
I was mightily intriged, as I have alwasys liked the idea of vampires,
ghouls and the like being the main characters. (I have seen most movies
concerning said creatures, especially the classics...) Well, I had decided
toplay a cleric..the DM was over joyed. No idea why, for I lost contact
with mt god, and had NO chance of getting spells. Go figure. Come to think
of it, I haven't played a cleric since then either...and that was at least
5 years ago.....
So....my opinion of Ravenloft...the DM HAS to be worth his/her salt in
order to successfully run a campaign in the darkened arena of the baronies...
Dragn_lady
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1116 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1124 of 6593 Reply
Re: Gaming fun tolin_goldbeard
(20/M/The Netherlands) 9/16/99 6:26 pm
Playing or DMing? Tough choice... I think I'll go with playing. As a player
you have almost just as much power as the DM. Saying:"Nah, I dont want
to travel all across the land to rescue King So-and-so. I think I'll sit
here and drink my beer, thank you very much..." and then getting the entire
party to stay, can severely annoy the DM:-)
In fact that's why as a DM I never prepare anything other than a map and
a situation, then let the players decide what they want to do. Quick thinking
is required, sure, but usually players come with their own ideas. If they
are any good, I give them some XP AND the possibility of doing as they
said. Players can be quite innovative if you just say: "And now what?"
Playing is often just a little more surprising to me, sometimes I really
like a shift in a storyline and as a DM, you just don't have that, because
you create that storyline.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1121 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1125 of 6593 Reply
Re: aNy ThOuGhTs? SCA_Bard
9/16/99 6:47 pm
I've played in only one Ravenloft game (at a conn) and had a blast. A
party of six Dragonlance kender, wandered away from their family reunion,
looking for Grandma.
Dialouge was like:
Villager: She was ravaging people!
Kender1: Grandma would never ravage anything!
Kender2: Except maybe a blueberry pie
Kender3: But only if she was very hungry!
Kender1: OH no! Grandma's starving! We've got to find her!
Grandma was a werewolf, of course...
It was sick and twisted and thoroughly enjoyable...maybe because it *wasn't*
typical Ravenloft.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1123 by dragn_lady
---
Message 1126 of 6593 Reply
Re: aNy ThOuGhTs? fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 9/16/99 10:28 pm
To Play or not to Play! tough question!!!
I can't say I favor one over the other. Playing is loads of fun. The suspense
and mystry of what's going to happen next. The thrill of battle, the treasure,
the wine, women, and song the... Sorry got carried away.
But as a DM, I find that I have to go head to head with each and every
Player. A balancing act of "letting them do what they want" and "subtlety,
coerceing them into doing what you want".
There is also the story line. As a DM I orchestrate this with my players
(notice i did not say dicatate). I enjoy bring off an encounter that the
players will still talk about after the game.
In short, I love to play and I love to DM. Each has it's own thrills.
Ramblings from the Sage
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1125 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1127 of 6593 Reply
To DM or not to DM .. shinto_gaijin
9/17/99 2:02 am
Though choice, no doubt about it ..
Both are exhilerating in their own way .. but I have to pick DM'ing.
You can always guide troublesome players to get their players motivated,
usually through creative use of NPC's or other interaction .. it helps
to know the player's perception of the PC's motivation (greed, power,
fame, or just get enough loot to be able to retire and build that perfect
castle he's been sketching since 1st Level) .. it helps even more to know
this before you dream up an adventure.
I truly enjoy trying to incorporate "something for everyone" in an adventure
.. and end in an hectic, almost beyond control, multi-scene battle against
time, enemies, and the environment .. much like the end of Return of the
Jedi (has anyone else noticed the progressive complexity of the endings
of the Star Wars movies .. SW:ANH - one battle; ESB - two; ROTJ - three;
TPM - four .. I wonder if they'll continue the trend ??). With some players
chomping at the bit (waiting for me to say, "and now back to .."), while
the others are shuffling through record sheets looking for that last spell
or magic item, hoping they can pull it off in order to avoid certain doom
..
Plus I love the challenge of roleplaying NPC's, giving whether they are
leaders, followers, companions, or enemies ..
"I love it when a plan comes together."
But playing is fun, too .. for me it's for those nights where I need a
break from constant mindwork.
---
Message 1128 of 6593 Reply
Re: To DM or not to DM .. Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 9/17/99 7:44 am
I have to say that I only once tried playing, and even then I was the
DM so it doesn't really count. I think the members of my gameing group
don't like playing but don't know how to be a DM. One, who can be seen
around various yahoo message boards calling himself Chaos_Knight_1, is
the best player I've ever had. He was the one who brought over a first
level (well I made him go back down to first level and develop his own
story to explain this, actually I think he started with a new charcter)
from the Forrgotten Realms campaign. I think he's actually now using three
distinct characters.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1127 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1129 of 6593 Reply
Re: Any thoughts? Postmodern1
(M/Mpls MN) 9/17/99 8:42 am
I have a diffucult time playing instead of DMing. Starting with the D&D
Basic set in '82, I have always had to be the DM. I have tried playing
about 8-10 times through the years but I either have too many problems
with the way the DM runs things or I just can't take the insane suspense
from a great DM ....
On the minitures topic, has anyone noticed what these damn things cost
these days? Yikes!! And I thought the handbooks were pricey ....
Ravenloft, the original module from the 80's, was one of the best darn
gaming sessions that I have ever run. If your players are looking for
a one-shot run into this genre, I highly recomend this one.
I picked up the whole boxed set when it came out, along with a couple
suppliments, and my overall reaction was mixed. There are some great bits
amongst the whole but I don't think I could ever run/play in the Ravenloft
world entirely. Since the players in my group were aware of the general
settings/tone and the stereotypical way of getting to Ravenloft, the most
fun I had with them was hitting them with "A thick fog covers everything
this morning, the kind the sun cannot seem to burn away ..." and just
waiting for someone to start screaming about having been sent to Ravenloft.
Also highly recomended :)
From a DM standpoint, the Ravenloft suppliment Islands of Terror was good
and has enough background info that you could probably use it as a stand
alone source for a RL game. Also, the format of small, individual islands
from the RL universe makes it a controlable setting for DMs unsure of
the genre.
Just some ramblings ...
-Bob
---
Message 1130 of 6593 Reply
General Replies Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 9/17/99 11:16 am
Ravenloft can be fun, if you're into that type of gaming - the gothic/horror
genre. Its also dependent on the DM and how well s/he portrays the mood
of the game. However, like other settings, its not really for everyone.
As far as DM'ing or playing the game, it all depends on the other people
I'm with. For the most part, I would rather DM as some of the people I
have been with just cannot develop a story line for their lives - it's
more like looking at a book, going from begining to end and rolling a
few dice. There is another guy who used to be in our group, I would always
prefer he run things. While some of his plots would build up and fall
flat on their face (then we'd just start a new game), they were always
fun and exciting, unexpected events at every turn. Some aspects of his
style I could only try to incorporate into mine. Then again, we never
really finished a campaign with him - maybe he's just that scatter brained.
On the other hand, he was probably one of the most amusing players as
well. He was a better player then he was a DM. A good role-player even,
usually his players were more interesting to play then really efficient
in the game.
All in all, I think I enjoy DM'ing more with my group then playing.
---
Message 1131 of 6593 Reply
Re: General Replies dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/17/99 6:27 pm
Hmmm....I'm not sure what is best for me. I prefer to DM city scenes,
when the term "Role" playing is in effect. On the ohter hand, I like to
play when my husband is DMing, as he is a good strategist. I guess it's
a female thing with me not being a strategist...I am getting better, though.
Close association and all..hehe...
I for one have always enjoyed ROLE as opposed to ROLL playing. Lots more
fun...other wise, you just sit there, tossing dice..."oh, I just sliced
off the ogres head with a nat 20!" Gets old REAL fast. Don't get me wrong...slice
and dice is ok...it just has it's time and place.... Any thoughts?????
soap box is up for rental.....
Dragn_lady
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1130 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1132 of 6593 Reply
Re: General Replies shinto_gaijin
9/18/99 2:14 am
Dragn_Lady ..
One way I have found to alleviate the boredom of "roll" playing or "slice
and dice" (I like that term) is to incorporate "role" playing into it.
Fighting mindless creatures on a level playing field is inane (besides
terribly unrealistic).
The way the D&D combat system works, there is very little escape from
the "initiative, to hit, damage, to hit, damage, repeat as necessary"
cycle .. it is almost certain to happen at least once in any adventure,
but to inject role-playing into this has made it more exciting for me
and my players.
An interesting terrain is crucial (ie: no fights in flat, open spaces),
and moving the melee around in it, each side trying to get an advantage,
is one way.
Intelligent role-playing of the adversaries is an absolute necessity (and
forces role-playing from the PC's), whether they're a pack of giant rats
or a competing group of carefully crafted adventurers. Very few creatures
of moderate intelligence are going to fight to their death (which makes
vampires an excellent long-term advesary, as an experienced vampire will
always leave himself at least one way out).
Colorful descriptions of the melee are helpful, but more often are a hinderance
to getting the melee over with quickly. After a few rounds of giving a
"blow by blow" commentary, you run out of ways to make it entertaining.
The best way, (I believe) is to avoid long, drawn-out melees until the
"final battle" of the adventure. And the final battle should be staged
in an appropriate setting with tasks that must be accomplished by various
skills (thieving abilities, spells, hack-and-slash, etc.), preferably
in different locations, and preferably all at once, so that when one scene
looks like it might get boring, you shift over to another and catch it
up with the timeline.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1131 by dragn_lady
---
Message 1133 of 6593 Reply
Re: General Replies Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/18/99 8:32 pm
I have a buddy in my group that runs Palladium games when i need a break
from DMing. The problem is he always reduces the battles to "numb"-ber
crunching. The setting of rifts is kinda cool, But the battles get boring
as hell really fast. Also, he subscribes to the "DM vs PLAYERS" school
of dming, often waiting until we come up with our own plans before he
formulates his. This is extremely frustrating as a player. I plan strategies
out (must be a guy thing, my wife was never much for planning) and he
rips them apart because I have shown him the weaknesses.
As for battlre in my own game, I tend to be very graphic and descriptive
when it comes to hack and slash, wich works well especially when they
are on the verge of being destroyed. Like the books say, a little colour
goes a long way. And you can cheat, if you want. Pull stuff out of the
books if you want. Suddenly the "You roll a critical and do 15 points
of damage on the orc"
Turns into, "Driving in with your blade, you force the foul creature back
on his haunches. Then, pivoting on one foot, you quickly spin, sending
his blade high and to the right just seconds before burying your sword
to the hilt into its chest."
Its a challenge, but I gaurantee you it will draw the players into your
story in ways you couldnt believe.
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1132 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1134 of 6593 Reply
Re: General Replies SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 9/18/99 9:54 pm
Orgy wrote:
I plan strategies out (must be a guy thing, my wife was never much for
planning)
Excuse you! I'm sure you intended that over-generalization to be amusing,
but it's not.
As a GM who takes great pride in planning political intrigues, multilayered,
peekaboo plotlines, intelligently designed fortresses and dungeons, as
well as rational, motivated villians and cunning battle plans, and who
happens to be female, I take exception to your comment.
Hello? It's the 1990s, not 1590s. Get with the program.
SCA Bard
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1133 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1135 of 6593 Reply
wHoAh ThErE gIrLiE Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/19/99 1:36 am
Ok, before I say anything else....WOAH THERE GIRLIE. I didnt say that
to offend you or anyone else. If you took it as an offense, Im sorry but
thats not my fault. The post wasnt directed at you, and I wasn't making
any huge misogenystic statements about the world. It was a fact that when
I finally got my wife to sit in on our games (it took me a year because
she thought dnd was for losers) She didnt do a lot of planning. She DID
however, interact wonderfully with the world we were creating and developed
her character so well I ended up writing some short stories about him.
Her elven warrior (her first character) ended up outliving the rest of
the party by a good 6 months. We had just had our daughter, so we were
spending a lot of time at home buried in DnD books. All in All, Id say
she was an excellent roleplayer. The comment was made because I was responding
to a post where the person implied that planning stages were more her
husbands field where as this person preferred the role playing aspect.
Please dont start fights without reading the posts, it makes us both look
bad. Im not here to argue with anyone, I just wanted to get in touch with
other DM's.
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1134 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1136 of 6593 Reply
Re: General Replies shinto_gaijin
9/19/99 7:19 am
SCA Bard ..
Orgy of Souls probably wasn't intentionally spouting sexist, stereotypical
slander (although that's the way it seems, out of context).
When placed side by side with Dragn Lady's remark:
"I like to play when my husband is DMing, as he is a good strategist.
I guess it's a female thing with me not being a strategist..."
It doesn't look very original.
My wife is not very good at role-playing because of two things (1) lack
of experience and (2) English is her second language. But we're working
on both. I do know some other (one buddy's wife and one buddy's fiancee)
excellent female role players. One plays impulsive and reckless, and the
other, methodical and scheming. The guys I've played with run the gamut
(from dangerously unpredictable to excrutiatingly thorough) in their thought
processes.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1134 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1137 of 6593 Reply
Re: General Replies SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 9/19/99 11:20 am
Don't worry, I'm not red-faced, steam-coming-out-the-ears mad...just irked.
I don't know how I missed Dragon Lady's... tsk, tsk.
I just read that and felt compelled to respond... I'm not mad, not going
to start a flame war, not going to lead SWAT commandoes against Orgy's
house... But if I didn't speak up, I'd feel like a doormat.
It's also not a terribly
good idea to address females you don't know as 'girlie.' Girl I can handle,
just. Any diminuative with an '-y' or '-ie' ending can come across as
rather condescending.
I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. Consider this Women, Society and
Culture 102. :) Hey, it fulfils core requirements for those of you in
college.
Now back to your regularly scheduled Guild topics...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1136 by shinto_gaijin
--
Message 1138 of 6593 Reply
Re: General Replies Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/19/99 5:42 pm
Wonders if there is a class on Tolerance that some people in here could
attend? Call it....Dont take everything so frikkin seriously 1-oh-1.
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1137 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1139 of 6593 Reply
Re: Gaming fun Jiriki13
(30/M/Chicago area) 9/19/99 7:03 pm
I would have to say that I enjoy both. I DM mostly right now, but when
I do play I love it. I love to DM, but after running a very long campaign
with no break it can begin to wear on you. Luckily for me, our group has
two people that DM and we a running two campiagns; although mine is the
primary one at this time. Unfortunately, some of the players in our group
had some problems with separating the game from real life. He was taking
what other characters were saying to his character as a personal insult
to himself, not to mention some other things. Anyway, our group is now
several players smaller. So if your live in the Chi-town area and you're
looking for a group we would love to give it a shot. Sorry, didn't mean
to make this into an advertisement.
Dave
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1121 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1140 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ravenloft setting... Jiriki13
(30/M/Chicago area) 9/19/99 7:22 pm
I'm sorry to hear that so many people have been put off of a great campaing
setting as Ravenloft. I also have a couple of players that don't like
the Ravenloft setting, but they also blame the DM in question. Ravenloft
is one of my favorite settings, but I don't use it as the main setting
in any campaign I run. I use it more as an unknown world that scares the
hell out of the PCs'. I think that this is the best use of this type of
campaign setting.
Most of you that have blamed the DM are probably right. A DM running this
type of campaign has to be good at building that sense of dread and uneasiness
in the PCs'. The DM also has to be able to role play those NPCs' that
are so critical to this type of campaign. A game that is run by just rolling
dice will not work for the Ravenloft setting campaign.
As for the cleric that was denied access to spells, wasn't right by your
DM. I believe that clerics still have access to their spells, it's just
that some spells; priest and wizard, are altered in the ravenloft campaign.
An injustice was commited against you my lady and I appoligize for any
false impressions. I would hope that you would try to play a cleric again
as there are many more options for priests now and I would also like you
to think about giving the Ravenloft campaign setting a second chance,
if a DM with the talent can be found. If neither of these things have
the possibility of being redeemed in your eyes, I wish you a fun gaming
experience where ever and playing whatever you enjoy. After all, the point
of playing is to have fun.
Dave (Katinflas "The Masterful"-Fremlin Archmage of Alaghon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1123 by dragn_lady
---
Message 1141 of 6593 Reply
Re: General Replies Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 9/20/99 3:12 am
I agree - everyone just relax a little - and if you are that upset go
back to the original post and follow all the posts and I'm sure you'll
see it is all a big nothing. na-da.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1138 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1142 of 6593 Reply
favorite DM moment Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 9/20/99 3:44 am
I had a pc with a dwarven fighter and at a lower level was dying from
wounds suffered battling some goblins. I gave him a 2% chance of a "God
call" - to everyone amazement the player got the role. (I didn't feel
like taking the time to re-roll a character anyway - right.) I have his
god (Clanggedin - a war god) tell him he died in the highest honor - battle.
The pc did not care - "I want to live" - so I told him that the goddess
Berronar has ask a favor of his god - to let him live.
I thought maybe the pc would change and worship her as his savior or something
- but no.
fast forward to many levels later - The dwarf is always nervous about
what his god thinks of him."I have to redeem myself before I die."
Eventually the dwarf is involved with a huge battle with a goblin horde.
He fights with the goblin leaders force and discovers the goblin leader
had a +3 short sword of dwarven slaying. The rest of the party gives it
to him and tells him to destroy it. He can't figure out how and says he
wants to pray to Clanggedin for the answer. I tell him that his god said
"drive it into your own heart right now and it will be destroyed forever".
(my thinking was it would be the dwarfs redemption and show absolute faith
- I was going to have the sword disappear and him to have only a great
scar on his chest to brag about) He wouldn't do it. The whole party groaned
in agony. He gave it to a less than honorable cleric in the party, who
eventually got alot of gold from an orc clan he had been dealing with.
---
Message 1143 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ravenloft setting... dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/20/99 11:38 am
I thank you kind sir, for the well met words. I have planned on another
cleric, just where and when I have NO CLUE. As far as Ravenloft is concerned,
if I can find a competant DM, I shall give it a try. I'm not completely
turned off the subject, as I "devour" the books when I get them. Reading
them within 2 days or just over.
Now, as far as my comment, that set other people's remarks into question,
yes, this is the '90's. That also means, LIGHTEN UP. The comments made
by myself and others were meant as opinions, not as insults. Taken out
of context, yes, people will get angry. Read in full, you'll read it for
what is was...an opinion. Would it have been any better if I said I was
a blond in a previous life, and it just held over? Didn't think so. If
you look at history, categorically, women AREN'T the strategists/generals,
men are. Sure there are a few exceptions, but on the whole, women don't
have the analitical mind for that.
So, please...don't assume the worst in peoples remarks...assume makes
an ass out of U and ME.
Oh, one more thing....being on this side of 40, and no longer on that
side of 20, I take it as a compliment when called "girlie". Good for the
ego....
Dragn_lady
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1140 by Jiriki13
---
Message 1144 of 6593 Reply
Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback Bane1975
(24/M/Central Kentucky) 9/20/99 5:18 pm
I've lost my copy, if someone could supply me with some of the information
from it I would be grateful.
THANX
---
Message 1145 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ravenloft setting... SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 9/20/99 5:18 pm
If you look at history, categorically, women have not been *allowed* anywhere
near a position of military power. Unless they're Jeanne d'Arc. Then they
get burned for their temerity and the heresey of wearing men's clothing.
*That's* the medieval studies major talking, fuggedabout the rest of the
stuff associated with this topic.
I apparently made a mistake in posting my opinion. I'll make sure it doesn't
happen again.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1143 by dragn_lady
---
Message 1146 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ravenloft setting... Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/20/99 5:27 pm
Hey, your mistake wasnt in stating your opinion, it was in lashing out
at someone without fully realizing the context that their words were spoken.
I'm raising a daughter single handedly, and the last thing I would ever
want is for her to be face with the kinds of things you accused me of.
Personally, I just want to get back to talking DM stuff, so I'll leave
this with a big, "Yes, girls are just as good as boys when it comes to
strategy." Of course, I cant speak for all women and all mean, so Im sure
Im insulting someone else with that statement. Aaahhh...gotta love the
good old catch-22....
I have a copy of the old FR adventures if someone is looking for stuff
out of it. Be warned, however, that this is pre troubles erain the FR
so some of the info is pretty dated....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1145 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1147 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ravenloft setting... shinto_gaijin
9/20/99 6:03 pm
You're absolutely correct about women "historically, categorically" being
excluded from military power.
The social and "species preservation" reasons for this almost warrant
another forum altogether. As society and technology continue to change,
the "gender-associated" roles will merge and eventually dissappear altogether,
but we're not there yet.
It wasn't the opinion, but the "full frontal assault" that seemed a bit
excessive.
When DM'ing in a social setting, it is always interesting to role-play
the general populace's reaction to a female adventurer. (I do my best
to make it an equitable mix of confusion and heroine-worship.)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1145 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1148 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ravenloft setting... Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/21/99 2:33 am
Heres one I like to use on female adventurers, and they seem to enjoy
it....
Just about every girl Ive ever met has gone to the bar and been harrassed
by some drunken fool who thinks he's one of God's gifts. I've brought
this character into game sessions, the odd inbred farmer or town bully
who gets a few mugs of ale under his belt and decides he's going to take
these heroines on a little ride. I must admit, even I was surprised at
the speed at wich these poor sops met their gods or ended up with a mouthful
of busted teeth laying in the horse troph. I'm willing to bet that these
people wouldn't live long in the real world if all girls carried sword
on thier hips....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1147 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1149 of 6593 Reply
Re: Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 9/21/99 8:30 am
I'd like to lay my hands on a copy of that book, I'm always on the look-out
to upgrade the standerad of my game but I think the simplest rules for
AD&D are the next step
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1144 by Bane1975
---
Message 1150 of 6593 Reply
DM's Guild, NPC's Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 9/21/99 12:18 pm
I have worked with many DM's and each have had differnt veiws on the subject
of NPC's.
some prefer that the NPC be at all times supeior to the players
some prefer the npc's be the bummbling sidekick/slave
some prefer (as do I) to treat them just like PC's and have them get EXP
and gain levels at their own rate.
still there are NPC's, the classic "Bad Guy" that comes under much debate.
My handle, Elkin DeathBlade for instance, is a custom made NPC for a campain
that I have been working on for years, but have yet to run... (links to
the NPC's stats off of my profile)
Input and oppinions?
---
Message 1151 of 6593 Reply
Re: DM's Guild, NPC's Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/21/99 3:53 pm
Generally I try to handle NPC's as they would be in reality...NPC's have
lives outside the bar that affects the way they react. This can be a little
too much detail for static characters, but I found the best way to handle
NPC's is like this: Anyone who will be interacting with pc's will need
a little bit of development. Most of this can be summed up in a few words,
like "gloomy, miserly old crankpot" With a brief discription like this,
I know generally how the character is going to act. As for background
npc's, I alwayskeep a couple ideas open for interests'sake. Little things,
like how the cr4ops are working out or what the best steel in town fetches
at the market. NPC's will almost always back down from a fight, as most
of them are unarmed and are obviously poor fighters compared to the adventurers.
Of course, Other adventuring parties encountered probably carry that "WE
SHALL OVERCOME" attitude that pc's always have, wich makes things very
interesting when 10 or so of them are getting drunk in the bar. My friend
plays NBPC's that always have the upper hand, and its very frustrating
to have such a blatant lack of respect toward such powerful people!
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1150 by Elkin_DeathBlade
---
Message 1152 of 6593 Reply
General stuff.... dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/21/99 7:36 pm
When I do play NPCs, (which hasn't been often, as I haven't DMed for a
while) it depends on the game/situation on how the NPC is treated. If
I plan on having that particular NPC around for more than one or two fights,
I'll give them ex points and the like. If they were just thrown in for
color, shall we say, then no, I don't give ex points. I will barely flush
them out...I mean if they are gonna buy the farm in three/four rounds,
why bother?
About the bar scenes......I play both male and female characters, so I
have had the luxury of being on both sides of the fence on that issue.
:)
I have one male fighter, who fancies himself a ladies man. He is relatively
good looking, but has no neck...long story. Sufice to say, it was an almost
lost battle with a Hill Giant. Well... even with all the scars on his
neck, and on his forehead (from bashing tables with his head, after a
few too many) he still gets SOME wench to look his way. He's just too
easy going to take the rejections to heart. On the flip side, I have a
couple female fighter characters that get hit on. One is an elf, who is
married, to a human believe it or not, but she is just too nice to really
hurt those obnoxious oafs. Her husband does that. On the other hand from
that, Chatra, my other female fighter, is just about an amazon. Any man
who offends her like that had better be damn good with a sword, or he
will meet his maker, so to speak. Fun times all around, I would say.
Dragn_lady
---
Message 1153 of 6593 Reply
Re: DM's Guild, NPC's Calitrojan
9/21/99 9:37 pm
Well I have to say that I rarely put NPC's into the player's party...
well at least back in the days before I moved and lost my group. (Still
looking for players in COlorado Springs).
But my world NPC's consisted of various levels. The high and mighty rulers,
villains and heroes of the day. The average joe adventurer, town hero,
or PC level villain that the party would face off against on a regular
basis. And the wise yet not necessarily powerful as well as the sidekick
bumbler... these usually went well with the high and mighty villains and
rulers and were a good match to have join a PC party for a short stint.
I have to admit my favorite NPC was high ranking member of a thieves'
guild in one of my major cities... he weilded a lot of power within the
city walls, but the PC's seemed to enjoy showing him how powerless he
was outside the city when he went on a VERY short adventure with them.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1150 by
---
Message 1154 of 6593 Reply
NPCs m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/21/99 11:06 pm
I have recently undertaken the daunting talk of making 100 NPCs which
I can occupy random encounters with. I learned early on that if an NPC
has a character and purpose and personality, the loss of 'human' life
makes a much bigger impact on the PC's. Even if you know that the NPC
is going to die in the bar fight, if his name is Boris Tangleon, he is
searching for his lost sister, and this is his first real lead to finding
her, his death has a bigger impact even if it is a random event.
One time a PC paladin decided to start a orphanage in Ravenloft, soon
the evil forces in town moved in on the 'den of good' so the paladin and
the rest of the PC's took these 40 kids with them to the next town. At
first when they were just baggage they were a big inconvienience, the
PC's *wanted* them to start getting picked off. Then I took the time to
give them each a name, and a story, and a personality. All of a sudden
they all became precious passengers which just could not die. When just
one of them did die, it was the biggest catasrophe for the PC's. To think,
a 0 level, no class, 9 year old kid caused the party to have a major crisis
of faith.
So now I'm trying to universalize this idea. You know how no matter where
you go, all the same people are there with you. So I use the character
portraits in dragon magazine, and draw some of my own, and use the core
rule CD-rom to make a huge number of NPCs that are each unique individuals.
Then I can roll percentile dice to populate bars, inn rooms, guild houses,
etc...
Maybe I go too far, but my players seem to enjoy it:)
Mr. Furious
---
Message 1155 of 6593 Reply
Re: NPCs Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/22/99 4:26 am
Id really love to take a look at that list, if you got it handy.....One
can never have enough good npc's kicking around. Like you said, they make
the adventure. Ive had nights ruined by asshole npc's just as ive had
peopkle jumping to the defense of John Q farmer cuz he was a nice guy
and bought everyone dinner....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1154 by m_furious
---
Message 1156 of 6593 Reply
Re: NPCs Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 9/22/99 10:36 am
I am undertaking the Daunting task of having at least one NPC Party for
each of the 50 villages in my world, I also use retainers regularly (retainers
are NPC members of PC parties) as my group is still small and has no PCs
above 1st level (Current Dwarf NPC, Elf PC, Thief NPC. Will soon be adding
a PC Cleric)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1155 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1157 of 6593 Reply
Skills and Powers the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/23/99 5:13 pm
Hey....how many of you all use Skills and Powers in your game? I like
some things about it, but in my new DragonLance game, I am thinking of
not using it...the people I play with range from not caring to absolutely
must use...personally, I think it is taking away from some of the "natural"
abilities of some of the races and classes by making you have to "buy"
them...particularly my beloved Kender. I am still unsure about allowing
it for this game (everyone is just so used to using them)...what are your
opinions?
- The Mood Drago
---
Message 1158 of 6593 Reply
Re: My favorite cloak Pictii
(34/M/PA) 9/23/99 6:14 pm
I love the cloak of no left turn thats fantastic
Pictii
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1103 by Calitrojan
---
Message 1159 of 6593 Reply
Re: Skills and Powers Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/23/99 7:47 pm
I prefer to use some of the new rules but not others. For example, we
decided to use the split abilities, but with acute limitations on them.
I never allow abilities to go past 19, and even a 19 must be achieved
with a racial ability. I do not allow character pouints, as I saw right
away bizarre mixes of racial abilities that no one could logically explain.
Elves with water breathing and bow proficencies and drow spellcasting....*shudders*
I have allowed the palidins and rangers weapon secializations, and because
of this I have brought in the weapon mastery rules to once again give
fighters a chance. Those rangers and palidins who would be granted weapon
spec. instead recieve the mastery option. I don't like the new rules all
that much, but they are interesting, and like they say, if you dont like
one thing, scrap it. They are big bioks, there has to be something in
there you like....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1157 by the_mood_dragon View Replies to this Message
---
Message 1160 of 6593 Reply
NPC's fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 9/23/99 9:00 pm
I use NPC's a lot and in many ways. Lately I've had to have one or two
as fulltime members of the adventuring group because my player group has
dwindled. Most NPC's that accompany the party as "equals" also cary some
limitation with them. I origianlly did this because I had players that
always followed the NPC's lead. "Jantors hiding. I'm hiding too" or "he
drew his sword, we're going to be attacked soon". Now my NPC's are not
first to act
My fave NPC's is a Fighting Monk (1st ed.) who is forbidden ,by his god,
to speak anything other then his own language, which the other players
don't understand. It has been great fun watching the players trying to
comunicate with him (and vice versa) The simpliest of ideas are not so
simple to express with out language.
As for NPC's that are met on the road or in villages etc., I have a folder
full of NPC's all ready to go with basic belongings and breif history.
They range in class, race, sex, and level.
My hardest part has always been fleshing out a village or city. Every
bartender, innkeep, blacksmith, and merchant was named BOB. On a suggestion
from another DM (in an other club) I started making townspeople with character.
I have a list of names and personalities, as I use one I make a note as
to what his/her ocupation is and where they are. This gave some continuity
to my towns and villages and definatelt livened them up.
(BTW Dragn Lady, it was a Stone Giant not a Hill Giant. Get it right or
I'll give him arthritis to boot.)
The Blind Sage
---
Message 1161 of 6593 Reply
Re: Skills and Powers Jiriki13
(30/M/Chicago area) 9/23/99 9:46 pm
In my group I don't allow the players to change their original rolls on
their subabity scores, but we use most of the other rules. We also use
some of the rules from C&T and S&M. In the case of wierd racial ability
combos, I personally look over every character before allowing them into
my campaign and I don't allow any nonsense combos to happen. If I question
something about a player's character racial abilities or anything else,
they have to explain to me how this would happen and come up with a good
story. Sometimes they convince me sometimes they don't, but at least I
give them the chance. The player's options books have some great rules
and ideas, but there is a potential for the players to get out of hand
if the DM doesn't keep track of each character. I have each player tell
me what they plan to acquire in the way of skills or what not and then
I tell them what they will have to do to accomplish this or if it is even
possible.
Just like any other D&D rules, there is good and bad. Keep what you want
and trash the rest.
Dave
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1157 by the_mood_dragon
----
Message 1162 of 6593 Reply
Re: Skills and Powers dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/24/99 1:22 am
From one dragon to another.....go with your gut instincts.....it's your
game, right??? 'Nuff said....hehehe
Dragn_lady
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1157 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1163 of 6593 Reply
Re: Skills and Powers m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/24/99 1:33 am
When players option first started coming out I thought they were cool.
I still use the Combat and Tactics melee breakdown and the complete weapon
list is a god send. But now that I've been using it for a while I find
a few major prblems:
1: The points system does not make sense from class to class, and from
book to book. The same skills cost a different amount depending on what
your core class is, and this can lead to confusion. PLUS the skills in
SP and SM seem to use the same system but the points are different. What
gives?
2: The sub attribute system makes power characters too common a thing.
An 18 (which used to be AMAZINGLY {insert your favorite attribute here}
is commonplace with the split stats. 19-22 is possible for PC's.
3: All the cool things in the complete handbooks are incompatible and
in some cases completely the opposite of what is presented in the player's
options.
4: Players focus on creating the ultimate character instead of playing
the ultimate character.
If I were you I'd stick to core rules until 3rd edition comes out (which
promises to tackle many of these problems) The core game is really tight
and allows for some clever house rules "inspired" by Players Options.
Mr. Furious
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1157 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1164 of 6593 Reply
Re: NPC's dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/24/99 1:34 am
my bad....sorry......
he still lost some height.....
DL
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1160 by fendicaf
---
Message 1165 of 6593 Reply
Re: NPCs Pictii
(34/M/PA) 9/24/99 12:51 pm
Hadn't we decided retainers were HIRED NPC's
I use one or two NPC as adventurers with the party not hired hands (I'll
take my equal share of the goodies thank you.") I also use NPC's for rivals
and other odd incidental encounters
Pictii
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1156 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1166 of 6593 Reply
Stuff Pictii
(34/M/PA) 9/24/99 1:12 pm
I have just read all the posts since the last time I had checked the club,
a couple of weeks at least.
1) Dragon lady your e-mail of apology was I feel unnecessary. Men are
designed to hit things with their hands and women are not that is why
we get bulky muscle mass on our upper body. (I am a sexist to the point
where I know for a fact that there are vast differences between the sexes.
Not that women cannot do any thing as well or better, I was delighted
when I taught my wife to shoot hand guns, to discover that what for me
was some thing I had to continuously work at to maintain a descent proficency.
She seemed to take to naturally. I believe it is the differances in our
muscles that make women naturally better shots than us men folk.)
2) I wonder how many people create their own campaign, vs how many use
"boxed sets" several of you talk about the cities from forgotten realms
or raven loft with a certain familiarity.
3) I personally feel nothing but confusion when it comes to skills and
powers or any of the second ed nonsense.
4) now I have started to blather on and on for which I must apologize.
Pictii Americanus
"Where dem warrior wimin at?"
---
Message 1167 of 6593 Reply
Re: Stuff Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/24/99 4:08 pm
I am a huge FR fan....I was there for the time of troubles, saw the rise
and fall of the drifting tower in Daggerdale, have wandered the high moors
near Silverymoon fighting trolls and goblin tribes, have delved into the
forbidden secrets of Mythdrannor and even, on occasion, wandered the tortured
realms of the underdark. I would love to make my own campaign, but I figure
hey, why bother with perfection.........
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1166 by Pictii
---
Message 1168 of 6593 Reply
Re: Stuff dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/24/99 4:32 pm
About our own campaign vs boxed....
Well, we got the boxed set of FR a long time ago. Have decided to use
the cities, descriptons and some people, but other than that, we make
our own adventures. It's fun to have the already done visuals right there.
And, hey...if it doesn't fit, it's out.
The last boxed set I bought was Maztica, and that was.....ohmygosh. 6
years ago!! Haven't played it yet, either.... :)
Oh.....one more thing..... My warrior "wimin" are all around the Realms.
I'm even playing (on line) a half Drow, half Moonelf ex torturer. She
has changed deities...
DL
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1166 by Pictii
---
Message 1169 of 6593 Reply
Re: Stuff tolin_goldbeard
(20/M/The Netherlands) 9/24/99 7:20 pm
I create my own campaign world, own gods, own cities the whole shabang.
We do not use the players options (except combat and tactics as a reference,
kindof like arms and equipment with tables in it) but we do have all the
Complete Handbooks, and almost all of them twice(3 fighters, 3 thief's,
2 priests, 2 elves, 1 humanoid, 1 dwarves, 1 gnomes and halflings, 2 wizards,
2 paladins, 2 rangers, 2 arms and equipment, 1 druids, 2 bards . oh, wait
we dont have psionics....:-)
Tolin
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1166 by Pictii
---
Message 1170 of 6593 Reply
Re: Stuff Calitrojan
9/24/99 7:23 pm
I used to use FR exclusively when I first started DMing because I was
cautious about creating my own world. As time went on, well FR just kept
evolving outside our campaign so that our FR was nothing like the FR of
the "mainstream". So I created my first campaign world at that point,
and as my players refined and explored the world it became very enjoyable.
Now that I am looking ot form a new group I am forming a new campaign
world. Slow going I might add with a fiance and a 40 hour a week job a
regular golf game, company football and softball... ugh my life is hectic,
but I will complete my campaign world before I get a group ready.
It just feels better to have my own story lines completely under my control
(outside my players actions)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1166 by Pictii
---
Message 1171 of 6593 Reply
Just a quick hello mergandevinasander_the_black
(???/M/The Realms of Toril) 9/24/99 10:59 pm
I just wanted to say Hello to everyone and that I'm a new member :-) I
have DM'ed off and on over that past 17 years. This club looks like wealth
of information. One last thing...does anyone live in the Bloomington IL
area? Let me know please.
Mergandevinasander
---
Message 1172 of 6593 Reply
Greetings galathan
9/25/99 4:25 am
I just joined this club and I thought I'd say a little about myself.
I'm 19 years old and live in a small town in East Texas. I have been playing
AD&D for about 10 years and DMing for 8 of them. My campaigns have always
been home brewed, though I do have and use materials from Ravenloft and
Planescape.
My current project is the building of a detailed campaign world for which
I have been gathering information for 2 years now(my head aches at the
sight of the tall stacks of handwritten pages that I must translate to
word processor). As soon as my information and ideas resembles something
organized I shall commit certain details to web site, but that may be
a ways off still. Incidentally, if anyone can help me with the art of
map making I'd be very grateful.
I believe I have said enough for one post, so I take my leave of you for
the moment.
Galathan
---
Message 1173 of 6593 Reply
Re: Skills and Powers Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 9/25/99 12:27 pm
for generic npc depends on the interaction w/ the group.
if they are tag along like Chef Del, he drives the food wagon, cooks,
and handles suplies.
NPC Vilian like My Deathmaster he has stats just like a pc does.
for the Players I generally run second edition prof's regaurdless of weather
I'm in second or first edition AD&D... I have also picked up one that
another DM came up with...
Skill: Quick Draw
NWP slots: 2 per weapon
Description: allows a weapon of players choice, and Only One Weapon per
quick draw taken, to be drawn and used in the same turn IF a dex check
is passed at -2.
Failure based on amount roll is missed by. minor miss euqals pc missed
the handle, forgot to untie it or did not draw it enought and can not
be used for combat this turn, but it is out (also having the scaberd come
with the sword... there is nothing funnyier than seeing a Paladin standing
there with a two-handed sword drawn and out, but the scabbard STILL on
the blade!).
Critical failure can range from tossing said weapon to hurting the PC
or other PC, to breaking the handle/blade right off of it (saving throw
applicable)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1157 by the_mood_dragon
---
Message 1174 of 6593 Reply
Re: Greetings Galathan Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 9/25/99 12:56 pm
(my head aches at the sight of the tall stacks of handwritten pages that
I must translate to word processor)
I've got three letters for you... OCR
yep, Optical Charicter Reccognition software... works with most scanners,
and most scanners come with OCR programes already...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1172 by galathan
---
Message 1175 of 6593 Reply
Re: Greetings Galathan Calitrojan
9/25/99 2:00 pm
I remeber a time when I didn't use my PC to keep track of my notes, NPC's,
and records... it seems so long ago... yesterday in fact.
Well today included I suppose. I still believe in the old school of pencil,
paper and three ring binders.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1174 by Elkin_DeathBlade
---
Message 1176 of 6593 Reply
Best Fantasy Novel of 99' BATTLE-CHASERS tsr4u
9/25/99 9:38 pm
Hello all. I'm new and wanted to find others with similar interests to
recommend my first AD&D-based novel I just wrote and published. It's called
BATTLE-CHASERS, and it's currently available at www.borders.com and www.barnesandnoble.com
- soon to be on www.amazon.com.
The official BATTLE-CHASERS website for reviews, excerpts and fantasy
art is
www.angelfire.com/on2/tsrobinson - please - take a look and judge for
yourself! Thanks! Tim
(tsr4u@yahoo.com)
---
Message 1177 of 6593 Reply
Re: Greetings Galathan dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 9/26/99 10:36 am
I too have stacks of notes taken of games played. Unfortunetly, I have
been elected the official secretary of our gaming group. My notes are
so detailed, that if wanted to, we could write novels off the notes taken.
The who's the what's the where's the why for's. Even, interspersed through
out the notes, are my own personal disguntled ramblings. My notes aren't
as detailed when I DM, but with my husbands scribbles and my own quips,
we can usually get the notes filled in.
I have yet to try and put the notes into PC form. I shudder at the thought
of all those hours it would take. For those of you who do, all the power
to you.
Dragn_lady
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1175 by Calitrojan
---
Message 1178 of 6593 Reply
hErE's An IdEa Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/27/99 12:03 am
Anyone give any thought to starting our own world in here? With all our
collective geniuses, Im sure we could put together a cool campaign setting....
-Orgy
---
Message 1179 of 6593 Reply
hErE's An IdEa 2 Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 9/27/99 1:14 am
better yet start a different club with that in mind, and have all the
members contribute. Post maps, and anything else people want to add. Maybe
start a Xoom or Geocities web site with all the info. I could help.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1178 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1180 of 6593 Reply
Re: hErE's An IdEa 2 m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/27/99 2:11 am
A decent Idea. Make sure to post here if a new club gets started.
I have a wealth of non-panthule ideas that I could contribute.
As DM's we should create a world that is good to DM in, not just 'cool'.
I (for one) hate it when spell caster players flip through the volumes
of spells for hours decideing what to cast while the rest of the players
dwiddle their thumbs; so in my own campaign world I have killed off most
mages and created a war in heaven to limit priestly magic as well. It
is still there but *I* get to say what spells are available, and it is
a short list.
So the real question is, what is the idealic AD&D world to DM in? What
do you like/dislike the most that could be adressed by a change in campaign
setting?
Furious
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1179 by Eoganachta
---
Message 1181 of 6593 Reply
the ideal world .. shinto_gaijin
9/27/99 3:10 am
Things that I believe are necessary:
(1) at least one classic struggle between "Good and Evil" that has been
(and will be) going on for ages.
(2) well-fleshed-out political structures that include histories, goals,
rivalries and allies.
(3) political boundaries that make geographic sense but aren't based on
geographic features "the desert kingdom of tatooine, the forest principality
of endor, the snow khanate of hoth, and so on .."
(4) integration of the mythological, fantastic, super-natural, etc. creatures
into the biology of the realm (this should not be fleshed-out, but at
least a big picture overview .. there has to be a balance).
(other-planar/etheral/astral creatures are not native (and undead aren't
natural) and don't really need to be included in this equation, unless
that is the entire premise of the realm; ie: planescape and ravenloft)
(5) frequent natural disasters make the PC's feel helpless (and, in my
opinion, should be avoided), but "natural" disasters caused by potential
allies or enemies can spice things up.
there are more, maybe later ..
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1180 by m_furious
---
Message 1182 of 6593 Reply
Topics Catch-up the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/27/99 4:48 pm
hmm..where to start?
I would be more than happy to contribute my ideas to a new world developed
by this guild...maybe we could market it.
I have played Forgotten Realms, DragonLance, and other AD&D worlds...as
well as some of the White Wolf stuff...and have become a big fan of Star
Wars since one of the GMs I play under does it set in Episode 1 and 2.
I enjoy those games alot. I run both my own world and DragonLance. DragonLance
is my favorite world, probably because it is where I first started playing
and I love Kitiara and Raistlin!!
NPCs-I pop them in to either give clues to the PCs or to confuse them
(I'm sadistic that way) Otherwise, I like to have the PCs deal with everything.
I found that some players tend to rely on NPCs too much if you over use
them. If I see them doing that, that is when I give them a NPC to mess
with their heads and lead them to trouble....and I let them know not to
believe or follow some one just because the DM is the voice behind it!!!
I have more to say, but I have class...later,
The Mood Dragon
---
Message 1183 of 6593 Reply
Ok... can anyone here help me out Mozart_Smozart
(13/M/N/A) 9/27/99 8:25 pm
I've got this player, and he has his heart set on a Cleric. Now I allow
them in my campaign, but he dosen't roll-play clerics well. Eg- his last
one was be-headed for murder. (even though I kindly warned him not to
kill his stupid rival in the middle of the city) I try to tell him no,
but he is determined. Any thoughts?
---
Message 1184 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/27/99 9:23 pm
bad cleric...
has any of his clerics had a good talk with the god or been punished by
the god? A healthy loss of power can be very educational for a cleric
or priest who has lost favor in the eyes of his god. It may have kept
him from being able to kill that rival....for instance: spell fails or
(if using conventional weapons) he finds himself unable to move; therefore,
unable to act in that manner. This isn't something I would do the first
time he screwed up, but a slow decrease in ability (especially those given
him by his god) If he tends to make bad choices right away...like murdering
people...drop in that wonderful NPC whose job it is to tell you how stupid
you are for doing something.
Don't forget...if you don't believe he can play them...don't allow it!!!!!
He may be upset, but you can settle that, probably, with a good talk about
the character and roleplaying, along with encouraging him to pick a class
that he CAN play well...developing a character that he can fall in love
with and WANT to play well.
-The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1183 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1185 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 9/27/99 9:58 pm
I agree with mood Dragon on this one! There is a progression to these
things of course. Also don't forget that a cleric is a part of an order.
That clerical order can give warnings to the renegade cleric, then devote
themselves to punishing the cleric. A paladin's quest could very well
be to bring in the renegade, dead or alive. Restricting players is no
fun for anyone (who wants to hear that whining) so let him do what he
does best, and you try to react as the world would to his actions. It
takes some thought, and he might never get to the moduale you have planned,
but players doing bad things and having to face up to it is part of the
fun of AD&D.
Mr. Furious
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1183 by
---
Message 1186 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 9/28/99 7:20 am
Let him start out as a cleric, when he is unable to follow his god's will,
he becomes a fighter trying to be a cleric. It might actually be fun to
see him trying to figure out why spells and turning undead don't work.
(if you have a chance read the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series from Tad
Williams - there is a great priest character in the story who fails to
live by his religous order.)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1183 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1187 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out mharelick
9/28/99 4:36 pm
Well now, the problem with killing his rival in a city has nothing to
do with being a good / bad cleric. If the character was a fighter and
commited murder in a civilized area, wouldn't he fall under the same consequence
of punishment?
As for killing one's rival, if he is an evil cleric, this is not a problem,
he just has to be more subtle / secretive about it.
Matthew
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1183 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1188 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 9/28/99 5:36 pm
I agree that kiling his rival in a city may not have been against his
religion (that was not made clear) but it is clearly a stupid action by
anyone hoping to stay alive very long in a world. The only time this could
be overlooked is if the city itself is an evil one and killing people
in public is no big deal.
the whole point of having him deal with his god or fellow members is to
help him choose his actions wisely.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1187 by mharelick
---
Message 1189 of 6593 Reply
Re: hErE's An IdEa galathan
9/29/99 12:56 pm
I think a good setting for the multi-person input that would create it
would be one based upon a cluster of demiplanes floating in the ethereal.
It would be different, allow for the personal tastes of various DMs, and
possibly be very fun for the players to play it.
Contributions could be sent to a group of DMs whose job it would be to
make sure things fit together smoothly so that it is one campaign setting
rather than several seprate ones that happen to be close to each other.
Galathan
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1178 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1190 of 6593 Reply
HINTS and advice. mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 9/29/99 9:54 pm
Hey, I am About to run my first campaign any advice? Also One of my Players
Doesnt like another one how can i stop him from unprovked killings? I
dont want to out and out say Paladine drops a mountain on your head.
C.J. Miller
---
Message 1191 of 6593 Reply
Re: HINTS and advice. Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 9/30/99 2:13 am
Do something cool that'll really piss em off....make em brothers or something....Ive
had players disagree with each other in the past...We have on guy in the
group that is a friend of a friend, and what an idiot! Anyway, occasionally
fights break out between the players and my advice is to just stay out
of it. It can be fun to watch players go at it. If the fighting is interfering
in the party's goals, the other players will likely step in and act as
mediatoers. happens all the time.
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1190 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1192 of 6593 Reply
Re: hErE's An IdEa Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 9/30/99 7:48 am
I've been trying to create just such a place. I thought I'd start with
Toril as a base and then add two planes which together were called Standerdice,
One air plane and one Earth plane.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1189 by galathan
---
Message 1193 of 6593 Reply
Re: HINTS and advice. Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 9/30/99 7:55 am
Draw maps before you start, I didn't and as a consequence the players
had to instruct a group of NPC Dwarves to take off all their clothes.
Also don't give out to much treasure but do give the players a common
goal, such as the rescue of the aformentioned Dwarves or the defeat of
another Player Characters arch-enemy.
Don't have out and out fighting but have one change sides suddenly in
the middle of a battle or replace one with a doppleganger.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1190 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1194 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out Jiriki13
(30/M/Chicago area) 9/30/99 8:43 am
Let him play the cleric and like the others have stated let him lose his
god given powers one after another. One thing you might want to do with
this player is talk to him about the beliefs of the deity in question.
If the deity he follows doesn't frown on these actions, then he did nothing
wrong besides getting caught by the local police force. If he continues
to go against the beliefs he is supposed to be promoting then he'll just
be a really bad fighter for a long time to come. I would also require
him to complete a quest once he did start role playing the cleric correctly
before giving any powers back. The difficulty of the quest would be determined
on how heinous his offense against the church was and how long a time
period before he began to role play correctly. It could become a great
teaching lesson for all your players, not to mention a great role playing
experience for everyone.
Dave (Katinflas "The Masterful"-fremlin archmage of Alaghon)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1183 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1195 of 6593 Reply
Re: Best Fantasy Novel of 99' BATTLE-CHA Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/30/99 9:33 am
Congratulations on the publication of your novel! As a writer, myself,
I understand how thrilling that is. Best of luck in your continued career.
I will definitely check out Battle Chasers.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1176 by tsr4u
---
Message 1196 of 6593 Reply
Re: Best Fantasy Novel of 99' BATTLE-CHA Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/30/99 9:36 am
P.S. I surf, too.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1176 by tsr4u
---
Message 1197 of 6593 Reply
Re: the ideal world .. Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/30/99 9:44 am
I think these all make for a good campaign setting, but I would hardly
use the term "necessary." The beautiful thing about fantasy is that you
don't really have to follow any rules in campaign design. I think the
only things that are "necessary" are that the DM have a firm understanding
of his setting and there are logical reasons and opportunities for the
characters to interact with the setting in an exciting and/or entertaining
way. The rest is more style than substance.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1181 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1198 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 9/30/99 10:58 am
If he doesn't play clerics well, why does he want to play them? Does he
just like to have the fighting/spellcasting combination? Suggest he try
a multi-classed figher/mage, but if he is the type of player he seems
like to me (based on your description) he probably wouldn't like the slowed
level advancement.
Most of the suggestions that have been presented thus far have been good,
but I disagree on disallowing him to play a cleric, unless, of course,
you diallow all players to play clerics. That could cause resentments
that could be detrimental to your game. I generally agree that if he insists
on playing a cleric, make him play that cleric. Do like the others have
suggested and penalize him by taking away his god granted powers if he
doesn't live up to his duties as a priest.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1183 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1199 of 6593 Reply
Re: HINTS and advice. galathan
9/30/99 12:52 pm
As far as arguements among characters go, don't interfere unless it starts
to get violent. A little tension can be a good thing. Also, there's no
need for infighting to cause the third Cataclysm. If things start to get
out of hand simply give them someting to divert their attention... a "random"
encounter, perhaps.
Galathan
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1190 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1200 of 6593 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out Mozart_Smozart
(13/M/N/A) 9/30/99 8:31 pm
Ok, about that killing his rival:
1. He was a lawful/good cleric
2. It was a civalized, nice city
3. He agreed to fight him (not to the death)
and was beaten, then he refused to surrender,
and cut his rivals head off (also, he got his
rival by lying to a dwarf, who later found
out)
4. At his trail, he tryed to get out by offering
to shake the gaurd who was keeping him there's
hand, and using cause critical wounds.
5. He dosen't just want spells, he wants
clerical spells.
---
Message 1201 of 6596 Reply
but anyway... Mozart_Smozart
(13/M/N/A) 9/30/99 8:34 pm
I convienced him to be a fighter. Thanks anyway :-)
---
Message 1202 of 6596 Reply
Re: but anyway... Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 10/1/99 7:50 am
Good, another discusion which has no relevance in the real world has helped
someone decide to convince someone else to be a fighter instead of a cleric.
Now can anyone help me by telling me where I left all the information
for my current campaign as the players are starting to get annoyed.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1201 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1203 of 6596 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out Calitrojan
10/1/99 10:04 am
I see that he does not act lawful good and there for would suffer some
penalties. And depending on his god's alignment (good I am supposing)
then he would also loose his clerical abilities and be forced to go on
a pilgrimage of repentance.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1200 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1204 of 6596 Reply
Re: but anyway... Calitrojan
10/1/99 10:05 am
It is usually in my refrigerator when I loose my world...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1202 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1205 of 6596 Reply
Re: HINTS and advice. Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/1/99 11:04 am
Ya, I have some advice:
1) It never hurts to be over prepared for you gaming sessions (maps, encounters,
npcs, anything you can think of that they might run into).
2) No matter how much you prepare, players have a tendency to do something
you are not suspecting.
I think I've read that somewhere, but it's quite true. In fact, my campaign
has been off the beaten path for some two months worth of sessions. And
winging it is always just as fun as running through prepared material
(if not more so). But thats also part of being prepared too, knowing the
campaign world you are running.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1190 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1206 of 6596 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out Umbratikus
(34/M/Central Ohio) 10/1/99 11:07 am
Based on that information, he is not playing a bad cleric, he is playing
a bad Lawful Good character. Rather, he is not playing lawful good at
all, I would say Neutral Evil, perhaps even Chaotic Evil. If the behavior
continued I would force him into an alignent change, in which case he
would probably be forsaken by his god. But, of course there is always
some evil god or demon prince that might allow the poor wretch to worship
him and grant rather evil powers in return (heh, heh).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1200 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1207 of 6596 Reply
Re: but anyway... Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 10/1/99 2:31 pm
The information is on the self behind you, under that thing-a-ma-bob.
Next to that other thing.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1202 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1208 of 6596 Reply
Mixing Magic and AD&D darwi_99
(37/M/Montreal) 10/1/99 2:57 pm
Hiya all
New blood from the francophone capital of continental America.
15 years of experience as both GM and player.
I have begun adapting *Magic the Gathering* to the AD&D system (using
the 5 Elder Dragons of Legends) as the world`s living gods and I decided
to try something REALLY drastic- aligning nearly all schools of magic,
both clerical and wizardly, to the different dragons- thus creating «natural
specialists» and «natural dunces», no matter what their stats are.
Exemples.
1- Only ONE dragon will allow its clerimages to cast Fireball. That would
be «Paladia-Mors», the Paladin-dragon who purifies by fire.
1a- The same dragon is the only one who can grant a Resurrection spell.
No matter what the wisdom score is for any other clerimage, they will
NEVER be able to cast Resurection (unless they get it from a scroll)
2- All detection and location spells belong to one dragon (Sabboth)so,
if anybody wants to have a detect magic handy, they MUST travel with a
Sabbothian clerimage or have an item that does it for them.
Same goes for all illusions/phantasms & enchantment/charms(Bolas);Invocation/evocation
and «good» Necromancy (Paladia-Mors); Wish! (specifically-Chromium dragon);
Summoning (Asmadi); Divination (Sabboth), etc...
It really screws up the usual tendencies in an AD&D game and actually
forces some bizarre alliances between philosophies in order to get some
work done.
Some players simply cannot adjust, though. To some, it is INCONCEIVABLE
that some wizard will NEVER get detect & read magic as spells.
I was wondering if anybody else out there has made MAJOR alterations to
the basic AD&D system and, if so, how it works out for them.
Also, I welcome all input and feedbacks.
Lastly... PSIONICS!
Yes or no? Too strong or workable?
Geez I love that game!
Darwi_99
---
Message 1209 of 6596 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out darwi_99
(37/M/Montreal) 10/1/99 3:21 pm
Using the standard AD&D, your cleric should have lost access to spells
as soon as he broke his word (lawful)and then again we he tried to harm
someone merely doing his civilized duty(good).
Harsher DMs may want to penalize him with level loss as well (as his current
when switching aligment)but that should be used, IMO, only when the role-play
is really going down the drain and loss of power appears to be only incentive
to bring a character «back in line».
Personally, I take the other road. If you play a cleric but do not play
the philosophy, you are merely *expelled* from the Church after a few
(very few)warnings from superiors.
Cleric is not a hacker class. More than any other character, the cleric
is a role-play class (alignment, philosophies, agendas and godly portfolios)If
that`s what your player wants out of his cleric, he shouldn`t be *allowed*
to play one in the first place.
The old argument again: power play or role-play?
Just my opinion, of course.
D.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1200 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1210 of 6596 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out darwi_99
(37/M/Montreal) 10/1/99 3:24 pm
Slight correction:
If that`s *not* what your player wants out of his cleric, he shouldn`t
be *allowed* to play one in the first place.
D.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1209 by darwi_99
---
Message 1211 of 6596 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 10/4/99 6:40 pm
"Ok, about that killing his rival: 1. He was a lawful/good cleric 2. It
was a civalized, nice city 3. He agreed to fight him (not to the death)
and was beaten, then he refused to surrender, and cut his rivals head
off (also, he got his rival by lying to a dwarf, who later found out)
4. At his trail, he tryed to get out by offering to shake the gaurd who
was keeping him there's hand, and using cause critical wounds. 5. He dosen't
just want spells, he wants clerical spells."
sounds like he's no longer lawfull good, sounds more like chaotic evil...
that means forced alignment change... No More exp till he settles in his
new alignment or repents his sins and re-earns favor with his god...
always a good way to let a "Good" guy know he's strayed from the True
path
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1200 by Mozart_Smozart
---
Message 1212 of 6596 Reply
Re: Ok... can anyone here help me out shinto_gaijin
10/5/99 2:50 am
.. was beaten, then he refused to surrender, ..
.. and cut his rivals head off ..
.. (also, he got his rival by lying to a dwarf, who later found out)
.. he tryed to get out by offering to shake the gaurd who was keeping
him there's hand, and using cause critical wounds.
All not very lawful or good ..
I agree, this guy's got a problem playing his alignment (especially LG),
not necessarily Clerics .. one DM I played with used insanity as a punishment
for serious alignment conflicts .. one PC (LN Fighter) was "Krusher the
Mad" due to his constant chaotic behavior .. there was an entire adventure
where Krusher (then schizophrenic) believed he was alternately a great
wizard (luckily we picked up the armor and weapons he discarded) a female
cleric (something odd about a 6'4"/250lb bruiser with a feminine voice
trying to "heal" you) and a thief/acrobat (gave new meaning to the word
"tumbling") .. it was extremely entertaining and lots of fun to role play
around him. Phobias were lots of fun, too .. especially when combined
with hallucinations.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1211 by Elkin_DeathBlade
---
Message 1213 of 6596 Reply
Hasbro galathan
10/6/99 7:01 pm
What does everyone out there think of Hasbro's aquisition of WOtC? Anyone
got a "look on the bright side" to AD&D being run by the same company
as Monopoly? Love to hear it.
Galathan
---
Message 1214 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 10/6/99 8:22 pm
All's I got ta say is
"What goes around, Comes around!"
Hasbro cannot do any worse then WoT. Besides the company has been in business
for a long time and feel more comfortable having AD&D run by Hasbro then
by WoTC.
Ramblings from the Blind Sage
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1213 by galathan
---
Message 1215 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 10/6/99 11:41 pm
I have to agree with the Blind Sage. Hasbro has at least been in business
over the years making games and D&D has been classified as a game. Can't
do any worse. Can do better.......
DL
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1214 by fendicaf
---
Message 1216 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 10/6/99 11:59 pm
My role playing days are finished if the next module that gets released
is "Attack of the giant space-legos" or "In the cave of Ken and Barbie".....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1215 by dragn_lady
---
Message 1217 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro shinto_gaijin
10/7/99 4:03 am
I tend to agree with the "can't do any worse" mentality ..
Hasbro knows that AD&D is a globally popular game, and has millions of
devoted followers who (to be honest) don't need any more books .. sure,
new realms, new classes, and new rules are cool, but the game was originally
designed to be played with two books, some dice, and an imagination ..
every thing else that has followed has been superfluous ..
we don't *need to buy* anything else to enjoy the game .. if they produce
crappy material, it won't sell, and they'll re-think their design process
.. and (hopefully) produce something cool ..
The first time there's a Pokemon crossover to AD&D is when I go back to
the good old orange-spined originals.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1216 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1218 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/7/99 9:39 am
I agree with everyone else, can't be any worse. It will just be good to
finally have this 3rd edition put out and all this buying out businesses
behind us. When everything's settled, we can probably get a better picture
at what is going to happen.
However, on another note - for those also into Computer-RPGs - and not
to say that they are in any way better then table top gaming. Flipping
through my latest copy of PC Gamer, I caught a little snippit of information,
about a paragraph at best. It noted that part of the Hasbro team is Hasbro
Interactive and that they've mentioned some thoughts towards AD&D computer
games. Its hard to say what they may accomplish this early on. Could be
some of the best games as there isn't much negotiating for rights to AD&D
games, since Hasbro owns TSR now. On the same note, they could be just
as crappy, only time will tell.
---
Message 1219 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro ddubinsky
(27/M/Calgary, AB) 10/7/99 2:28 pm
Hasbro acquiring Wizards of the Coast cannot be any worse than what WOC
is doing with D&D 3e... Case in point, TSR has stated that 3e will eliminate
racial and class restrictions - meaning that there will be 30th level
gnomish paladin/necromancer/psionicists mixes or even more ridiculous.
Say goodbye to humans in D&D people - as well as the hope for any kind
of demographic balance...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1213 by galathan
---
Message 1220 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro galathan
10/7/99 4:58 pm
Actually, TSR said that they are getting rid of race/class limts, not
restricions if I remember right. Demi-humans will have slower advancement
beyond their previous limit, which is what I always did anyway. Besides,
the D&D rule number one has always been "Every rule is optional." If something
doesn't suit you, don't use it. If you find too many of the changes distasteful,
don't buy 3rd edition.
I just wish TSR hadn't decided to toss out my two favorite settings: Ravenloft
and Planescape. I guess I'll simply have to start putting out material
on the web.
Galathan
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1219 by ddubinsky
---
Message 1221 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 10/7/99 11:14 pm
I completely agree about two books, some dice and an imagination. Nothing
could be more true.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1217 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1222 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 10/8/99 8:00 am
I'm stil using the red paperbasck version of the originals (1981 or so),
I think really everything I need can be gained from the two books.
Better go.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1221 by Eoganachta
---
Message 1223 of 6596 Reply
Re: Hasbro Karleah
(34/M/El-Karek) 10/8/99 8:20 pm
I am shocked... If I understood correctly, Ravenloft and Planescape are
going to be out of print and from what I read the new edition of AD&D
does not sound too exciting.
I truly do not understand WOC/TRS marketing strategies. Do they want people
stop buying their products? Mystara, one of the best an most detailed
setting in the whole RPG game history was "delete from the face of the
Earth" and now they are doing the same to other extremely successful Campaign
settings?!! Personally, I think something is not working right. Of course,
this is only my personal opinion.
Should we collect e-mail signatures and send them our comments?
Just an idea.
K.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1220 by galathan
---
Message 1224 of 6596 Reply
Danduin strolls back into the world Danduin_
(~30/M/In front of a computer) 10/8/99 8:53 pm
It has been a while since I have had the time and energy to go online
12+ hours a day at work 7 days a week has a way of "draining" one. It
looks like I have about an hours worth of reading here before I catch
up. Umb, Acroy you guys are top priority tonight. I think I will have
to automate things so these delays don't happen in the future.
---
Message 1225 of 6596 Reply
Bye, bye Humans? atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 10/8/99 9:06 pm
This is specifically in response to ddubinsky's message.
"Say goodbye to humans in D&D people"
I have always personally been annoyed with halflings. The only time I
saw them used were as thieves. Very Unoriginal and powergamer like. I
decided to use a human thief, not many bonuses at all. These days I prefer
to play humans, who cares if they don't have racial bonuses, it is for
roleplaying not powergaming. We'll only see humans dissapear from the
list of powergamers, which they haven't been on for a long time.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1219 by ddubinsky
---
Message 1226 of 6596 Reply
Re: Bye, bye Humans? the_hand_of_fate2000
(17/M/Somewhere in the state of) 10/9/99 11:29 pm
I disagree. I DM a "powergame" in which all save the mage are humans.
My players prefer to be able to be any class, and to raise to any level.
With 3rd edition, and the elimination of level limits, humans may disapear.
In my opinion they have too few advantages. Only in the hands of a good
DM can humans be leveled out so that they are not desired too much by
power gamers. I do this by taking into account that most of the NPC's
in the world are humans, so if the players are all non-human, they are
limited to where they can go openly and what they can buy easily. Humans,
dominating most of the planet, have a slight downward glance at most non-humans.
This gives humans a huge roleplaying advantage, which the powergamers
in my game have latched onto. They now don't have the powercharacters
from before, with the non-human advantages to combat. Instead, they have
the in-game advantage of acceptance, and the out-of-game advantage of
better, more enjoyable roleplaying.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1225 by atesh42
---
Message 1227 of 6596 Reply
Re: Bye, bye Humans? Jiriki13
(30/M/Chicago area) 10/10/99 1:44 am
You have done away with the biggest advantage that humans have to level
out the playing field with demi-humans and that is unlimited level advancement.
If there are no level limits or at least increased experience to gain
levels for demi-humans, then humans wouldn't be the majority in any campaign
world. This always goes back to the point that if elves or dwarves for
instance didn't have any level limits there would be tons of 30+ level
mages, clerics, fighters, etc. running around because these races live
for so long. An elven mage, for instance, that has lived for 500 years
would attain demi-god status without even going on one adventure in his
entire life time by experimentation and research of spells and magic items.
This makes humans as high on the food chain as a grasshopper. If this
were the case then elves would rule the land, even if they had a slow
reproduction rate and dwarves would be next in line. Anyway, some of the
3rd edition stuff sounds like it might be kind of cool, but I totally
disagree with allowing any race to be any class and demi-humans to have
no level limits/increased experience. I make demi-humans earn triple experience
once they reach their ability adjusted level limit. I want to know how
they'll explain dwarves all of a sudden being able to become wizards when
they have chances for magical items failure. I think I like things just
the way they are. I won't be buying the 3rd edition.
Dave
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1226 by the_hand_of_fate2000
---
Message 1228 of 6596 Reply
Re: Bye, bye Humans? the_hand_of_fate2000
(17/M/Somewhere in the state of) 10/10/99 1:49 am
That I agree with. 3rd edition will be played at my table with a few house
rules, including level limits and class restrictions.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1227 by Jiriki13
---
Message 1229 of 6596 Reply
Re: Bye, bye Humans? Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 10/10/99 5:28 am
Here's another, more obvious reason for human character's. Racism. Think
about how the average ignorant peasant reacts toward things that are different.
If, like in my world, the uneducar=ted truely fear magic, then surely
they fear the mystical races of dwarves and elves. they live for a hell
of a long time, speak in tongues, and look like no humans ever would.
Their ways are strange and wonderous, their magics and customs foriegn....it
goes on and on. Coupled with the rarity of the species, this makes for
an interesting roleplay experience. how hard is it to get a table in a
bar when the waitresses refuse to go near the party's stinking dwarven
cleric? This is a human advantage that doesnt rely on a numbers system,
but is an easy way to balance out a campaign.
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1228 by the_hand_of_fate2000
---
Message 1230 of 6596 Reply
Re: Bye, bye Humans? Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/10/99 6:41 am
Please read everything :)
The biggest advantage of humans is ambition, there short lives push them
that much more to achieve higher standards then the other races. Realisticly,
in comparison, the races are fairly equal. Consider a 40-45 year old human,
ruler of a country. Let's make him powerful, let's say 20th level (I try
not to think of levels higher then this, that's ridiculous). A dwarf lives
about 3 times longer then a human, everything is really that much slower
for them. So by comparison, a normal dwarf would reach 20th level at around
120-150 years, right before they begin that slow process of aging (losing
stats and such). Elves, which very from campaign to campaign, live much
much longer. For this example, lets say they live on average to 600 years
of age before dying (or moving on or whatever you like in your campaign
world). About six times longer then the human, so elves wouldn't normally
reach 20th level until at least 240-260 years of age. Again, 20th level
is just an example of the top end of campaigns I run.
Everyone may disagree, but you're forgetting - humans are the ambitous
race. Dwaves tend to take things a litte easier and elves, elves are by
far the mellowest (for lack of better words, I haven't slept yet) of all
the races.
Well all pc's are amibitous, or so it can be argued. Well, if my pc's
want to play an ambitous elf or dwarf (or halfling or gnome for the matter),
they better be able to explain this. And not just to me the DM, but to
their peers as well. How will other elves (insert favorite race) take
to some fool brother of theirs rushing off to do whatever, taking chances
and risk getting killed - like the humans do so much.
We could blow this off saying such and such a player is a powergamer/twink/twit/munchkin
and will devise a way to play the character. But reading over what us,
the DM's have to say - I think, how can we expect the players to play
it correctly if we are selves are scheming up 30th level gnome paladins?
If we're not going to run the races as they should be run, how can we
expect the players to play them correctly?
And everyone's worried about upsetting the balance or the demographics
or whatever - think of this: If humans can grow to be twice as powerful
as every other race - why have they not conquered all of them (considering
most campaigns have a fair number racial conflicts)?
This may (or may not) be coming off a bit harsh, but I'm just trying to
show that we can use our imaginations to control the environments we are
giving our players. Like the books say, they are just guidelines, the
final say so is by the group playing the game.
And, no one is saying we have to buy into this either. I know plenty of
people still playing 1st edition and about half as many who only play
D&D (original). Consider 3rd edition a completely different game if you
like - no one is running around saying FASA's Earthdawn sucks cause it's
not the same as D&D. And, if we're worried about campaign source material
not being further released, maybe we should think of G. Gygax - the game
was meant to be that of our imaginations, we're gifted people, we could
as easily create our own material. I know quite a few people have developed
(or are developing) their own game worlds from scartch - with only a PH,
DMG and some dice.
Well, that's my two cents, it's 5:45, and maybe I hade too many beers
:)
Richie M.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1227 by Jiriki13
---
Message 1231 of 6596 Reply
Forgot Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/10/99 6:45 am
I'm saying, let's role play - forget statistics and numbers and all that.
And sorry for all the grammatical errors, I'm tired.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1230 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1232 of 6596 Reply
AD&D Editions, and other stuff. SirNotAppearingInThisClub
(25/M/BC, Canada) 10/10/99 2:18 pm
Is there a major difference between first edition and second edition?
I've only ever played second edition; was just wondering. What version
do you all prefer to play?
PS: I was browesing TSR/WotC's web page today for a bit and looking at
some of the info on 3e. Whats the deal with the new art for 3e? (And I
thought the art work in the reprinting of the 2nd edition was bad.) Suppose
its a minor gripe though :) I didn't notice very many details regarding
rules changes, but between the artwork and what was mentioned, I can't
help but get the impression that they are taking a sort of 'KoOl DoOdS'
aproach to the new AD&D system. Thats just my opinion, though, I could
be wrong.
---
Message 1233 of 6596 Reply
Free Books mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 10/10/99 7:30 pm
hey I dont know if anyone here knows about them
but if you go to the wizards of the coast dnd page, you can download copies
of the will and the way and the castle guide. If this common knowledge
Pleasde dont laugh at me.
---
Message 1234 of 6596 Reply
Re: NPCs JasonLotito
(19/M/Stoudsburg, PA) 10/10/99 8:39 pm
Ah, yes. You do not go to far. Giving NPC's life is one of the better
abilities of a good Dungeon Master. Making that character mean something
to the players. I remember my old campaign I ran for my players. The mother
of one of the Henchmen (women, actually) died and they were ready to kill.
But for me, I never really pre planned my NPC's. I always keep a notepad
beside me when DMing and whenever they come across a new character to
interact with, I jot some important info down on the pad for reference
later on. Now, in the case of 40 children, I could see writing some of
them down.
Yes, history, personality, and a name go a long way, even if it is just
a game. My player Samson married the partie's mage's henchmen (her mother
was the one who had died)Petra. Now, can you imagine two guys, mnaly men
at that, trying to role play a romantic encounter. Well, the player even
role played the wedding, and even wrote his own vows. I also remember
the goblin they picked up and turned into a paladin who died when he became
a tad powerful. Well, that is another story, but no, your are not going
to far. And if the players enjoy it, play on, good man.
Lotito
Loser of the internet too often
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1154 by m_furious
---
Message 1235 of 6596 Reply
Netbook of Netbooks JasonLotito
(19/M/Stoudsburg, PA) 10/10/99 8:52 pm
Proclaimed as the Netbook of Netbooks!
This Netbook is completely new! If you have a site out there, a netbook,
or article, you can submit it to the Netbook of Netbooks via EMail.
I am working hard at making sure as much as possible is getting into this
what now seems to be gigantic project, but I am willing to do it with
some help.
All I would need from anyone who wants to submit something is an email
in the following format.
Email to: jason@farrellstudio.com
Subject line: [NETBOOK]Submission
Body should contain
Your name
your email address
what you are submitting
where it can be found
a brief description if possible
any other info you think is relevent
This is basically a free promotion to anything you have done, also, Yahoo
clubs count, as well as mailing lists, and other things, but if I don't
get an email, I cannot guartantee that it will be in the book.
Thank you, and keep the info coming
Lotito
---
Message 1236 of 6596 Reply
Re: AD&D Editions, and other stuff. shinto_gaijin
10/10/99 10:04 pm
SirNot ..
Major difference .. the classes were regrouped somewhat .. in 1st ed,
there were no "rogues" "priests" "mages" or "warriors" .. the Classes
(and sub classes) were: Clerics (Druids), Fighters (Paladins, Rangers),
Magic Users (Illusionists), Monks, Thieves (Assassins), and Bards (but
becoming a Bard was a group of adventures in itself).
That was the biggest change that I recall (it's been some years since
I even glanced at the 2nd ed. books that my gaming group pitched in to
buy, just to see whether or not to shelve our beloved orange-spined companions).
Then we laughed as others new to gaming bought up (spending hundreds of
dollars) "players packs" "montsrous compendiums" "complete handbooks"
and so on .. thinking that in TSR's desire to "make the game more accessible"
they were hiding their true desire to broaden their customer base.
PS: this trend continues with 3e D&D.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1232 by SirNotAppearingInThisClub
---
Message 1237 of 6596 Reply
I've given up Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 10/12/99 8:03 am
Since theres to much of a powerstruggle type feeling in the 3rd edition
I've gone out and bought a book from the GURPS seris, and I feel adapting
the various D&D and AD&D worlds to that will be a lot eaiser.
---
Message 1238 of 6596 Reply
Re: I've given up Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/12/99 9:56 am
I'm sorry, that was kind of a rash thing to do. Just because you own 2nd
edition (or 1st edition) AD&D books does not mean you HAVE to /upgrade/
to 3rd edition. It also helps support the supposed /greedy/ WotC reasons
for making a 3rd edition - showing people will buy anything rather then
just be content with what they have (two books and some dice).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1237 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1239 of 6596 Reply
Re: Bye, bye Humans? Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 10/12/99 2:34 pm
"That I agree with. 3rd edition will be played at my table with a few
house rules, including level limits and class restrictions. "
House rules are the STAPLE and main stay of AD&D reguardless of edition.
For instance, on a rather small(yet) world I have been creating I have
reversed the age old conventions on classes and level limits...
An Elf (or any demi-human), on my world, cannot Multiclass. Dual class
yes. this is because after serveral Hunderd years as a (incert class here)
they might want a change... and they live long enought to get REALLY good
at doing it, hence no level limits.
Humans have ALWAYS been known as Jacks-of-all-trades, hence Multi-classing
is all but Required. no level limits, but they do not live long enought
to reach 30+ unless they are nearly gods to start with...
I have not had a chance to run this yet, but I'm thinking of keeping conventional
racial bonuses for demi-humans, and adding a .75 exp multiplier to the
needed EXP per level for humans... I'll have to try that last one before
doing it to see if it over balences the game...
Oh, paladins are another question... allow demi's to be them as well?
After all, they DO have thier own gods and could be grated special favor...
like a fighter that is soo good, and devoted that the god (after a quest
for this honor) grantes the abilities as a reward insted of starting out
as a level 1 Lawfull stupid knight...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1228 by the_hand_of_fate2000
---
Message 1240 of 6596 Reply
Re: Bye, bye Humans? Calitrojan
10/12/99 7:06 pm
You know this thread comes up wvery couple of weeks in its various forms.
DARN IT WE DON'T HAVE DO BUY THE STUPID BOOK!
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1239 by Elkin_DeathBlade
---
Message 1241 of 6596 Reply
3rd edition wolflaughing
(34/M/miami,fla.) 10/13/99 9:08 am
all systems have there own problems. D&D has plenty too as does gurps
frankly the hero system works fairly well for me but if you want to play
it doesn't matter what edition they put out or how many campaign supplements.
you just play with what you what and the others be damned!
---
Message 1242 of 6596 Reply
hmm forgot to intro wolflaughing
(34/M/miami,fla.) 10/13/99 9:09 am
heh i forgot to say hi before speaking. i have been a dm for about 20
years now. i am always looking for new tips and tricks and hope to find
some here
---
Message 1243 of 6596 Reply
DC area aaronHab1
(VA/M/fairfax) 10/13/99 9:20 am
Anyone got a campaign running or wants to start one in the DC/MD/VA area?
---
Message 1244 of 6596 Reply
Re: DC area Ramius1733
(34/M/Fairfax, VA) 10/13/99 10:55 am
I have sent you an invitation for my club. We have been playing off and
on now for a couple of years.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1243 by aaronHab1
---
Message 1245 of 6596 Reply
Oriental Adventures shinto_gaijin
10/15/99 3:30 am
A few questions ..
I'm sure the experienced players remember the Oriental Adventures supplement
to the first edition (it was the best selling AD&D rule book ever .. I
don't know if it still holds that record or not ..)
Does anyone still play OA ??
Would anyone be interested in an online campaign ??
I've seen mention of Kara-Tur in the 2e Forgotten Realms campaign, how
does it compare to the original ??
(the club's been kinda dull lately .. thought I'd try and change the subject)
s/g
---
Message 1246 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/15/99 9:15 am
I have it lying around somewhere (OA), haven't played it in ages. I think
Kara-Tur was the name of the OA campaign setting released for 2nd edition.
I don't know what all was released but I do know they took the most complicated
class and made a handbook for it, the Complete Handbook of Ninjas. Other
then that, I haven't really seen much about it. I'm playing in Al-Qadim,
which takes place on the land mass Zakhara, which is just across the world
pillar mountains from Kara-Tur. There's mention of a few merchants from
over that way in some of the AQ supplements.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1245 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1247 of 6596 Reply
3rd Ed- my 2 cents worth Katya_CrimsonHeart
(F/Kansas, USA) 10/15/99 2:10 pm
I've heard about a proposed 3rd edition for years.
In the recent copy of Dragon magazine, they gave you a look at 11 of the
new changes.
I started playing in first edition. I resisted second edition but got
coverted over the years.
From what I've seen of 3rd edition, its a piece of ****. It's nothing
more than to suck your hard earned money. Those of us who have played
either edition, for a long time, will understand how we all have our house
rules, modifying or ignoring rules we don't like. Making the game our
own. The new 3rd edition, is doing officially, what we've been doing all
along. Making more rules like class limits optional. The armor class is
moving in the opposite direction. Everyone starts at 0 instead of 10.
Higher the armor class, better the armor. For those of us who've played
for awhile, it will do nothing more than confuse us. Doesn't make the
game any better. They havn't fixed the magic spell casting system any,
where most of us thought their was a problem, so many of us have just
come up with our own better systems. Doesn't seam that they've made any
significant improvment to the old system. It looks like they've canned
the old system entirely and created a whole new game. If I'd wanted a
new game, I wouldn't be playing AD&D. I'd just buy and play the new game.
I think time will prove 3rd Edition a bomb. And we will stick to our second
edition. Modules and adventures based on the old series will sell. The
new Greyhawk release will sell. But curiosity will sell some for people
to check it out. But it wont last.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth. We've all got our own opinions on it. The
artwork they showed in the Dragon was horrible too. All fantasy/sci fi
draft looking drawings. Not the color fantasy art that we've gotten to
know and love.
Katya
---
Message 1248 of 6596 Reply
Re: 3rd Ed- my 2 cents worth Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/15/99 2:44 pm
We keep hearing 3rd edition good, 3rd edition bad, its already been said,
buy it if you want, don't buy it if you don't want.
Either way, I just wanted to point out how 3e ac is supposed to work (from
my limited understanding) and, how it really is simpler.
One of the hardest things for new players is trying to figure out thacos.
For us DM's, I'm sure we've all had a new player who first off, messes
up writing down a THACO, forgetting bonuses and such. Then, when it comes
to combat, they are always asking us to interpret. Example:
New player: I rolled a 13, do I hit?
DM: Well, depends, what's your thaco?
New player: I wrote down 19.
DM: You would hit an ac of 6, you miss.
Another player looks at his sheet: Wait, s/he forgot her/his strength
bonus.
DM to exp. player: Isn't that already in her/his thaco?
Yet another player: Let me check the book *flip flip flip* no, what's
strength is that?
A 4th player getting involved: I remember her/him taking specialization
with that weapon....
Sure, our favorite players get used to this inverted calculation and rattle
off the ac that they would hit as soon as they roll the dice. But there
are still people who call off what they rolled and wait for us to figure
it out. This is mostly from the players not understanding what they need
to do - even after its explained to them.
The new AC system is just meant to make everything easier for the players.
From our understanding of the current rules, in 3e, AC 10 still equals
10. For each point of better AC it increases unstead of decreasing. That
is AC 5=15, AC 0=20 and AC -10=30. We don't have to figure this out, it
will be listed on AC charts in the books. When a player rols to hit, the
add all their bonuses at that time (strength, weapons proficiences/specializations,
magic bonuses etc ...). Whatever they roll they hit - aside from addition
of bonuses, no more mathematics are involved. This also makes magical
armor fall into the scheme of things easier. Getting armor +X, all you
have to do is add it to the ac.
I haven't seen any word for word explanation for what the will do to make
up for the decrease in thaco do to level advancement but I imagine this
is simply handled by just giving bonuses (i.e. fighter gains a +1 each
experience level, mage get's a +1 for every five).
Its really the same thing, just easier for new players to understand without
worring about their addition/subtraction skills and messing up on all
the inverted +/-'s of magical armor/weapons.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1247 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1249 of 6596 Reply
Re: 3rd Ed- my 2 cents worth fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 10/15/99 7:41 pm
Call me old fashioned, but I don't find that "easier". You now have to
add you bonus every roll.
"Lets see, thats +2 for strength, it's a +1 long sword, I'm specialized
in it, and I have boots of speed on. so that comes up to ... 2+1+1+2=6.
Plus the 12 I rolled is....18. Did I hit?
I half always used "adjusted weapons thac0s". I have a custom made character
sheet for the players and each weapon lists it's stats including it' adjusted
thac0. This way the thac0 is only calculated when a player goes up a level
or if magic is used. As the dice and math bog down a game, I tell players
the AC of their target. They do the simple math, (weapon thac0 - AC =
to hit#). When they roll, if the roll is above the to hit number, they
hit. I will NOT interrupt a battle for "book keeping". If a player forgets
to make the adjustments, well then the character suffered from a brain
fart and will just have to practice and maybe get it right the next time
s/he draws his/her sword.
I guese what it really comes down to is what you are used to and what
you are willing to change.
Unless I get an overwhelming demand from players to play 3ed, I won't
be buying it. And seeing how all my players are from the old schoool,
I don't see that happening. Besides, any NEW players brought into our
group will be taught to play 2ed not 3ed.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1248 by Lotherio_Giacomo
----
Message 1250 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/15/99 7:50 pm
As someone who only got into gaming after 2nd ed came out, I still went
out of my way to find a 1st ed OA. I had seen a few OA characters floating
around in some of the games I was in and had leafed through it, and it
seemed well worth the cost.
In a fit of whimsy, I even crashed a start-up Yakuza family in the middle
of a decaying Roman Empire-eque setting. (Uncle Takeda had made a few
bad choices back home, see...) They were a great deal of fun to NPC.
I've never gotten Kara-Tur, so I can't compare them. If it's like a lot
of FR stuff, it took OA and added in some backstory and maps. (NB: I *like*
the FR setting, even if I won't buy all of the hugely detailed supporting
literature).
I think I would be interested in an online game if Shinto Gajin is going
to run one. With my life, I'd personally prefer a Message Board-style
game rather than a chat-style, where I have to make sure I'm available
at the same time every week or so.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1246 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1251 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures shinto_gaijin
10/15/99 10:08 pm
Guys ..
Kara-Tur was also the 1e realm that was introduced with OA.
I am in the military, and stationed in Japan, away from my normal AD&D
group (which had scattered so far as to play only about two or three times
a year) and had never played any 2e stuff.
Being in Japan, it's nearly impossible for me to establish a "chat room"
game (plus I don't type that quickly) .. the campaign would have to message
board style .. I know this makes role-playing excruciatingly long, but
we'll work something out.
As far as mixing the two settings .. I have had a few successful "cross-overs",
but prefer the medieval Japan setting (I have always been a Japanese history
buff), where intruders to the island are rare, and usually swiftly dealt
with, so cross-overs would also be very rare.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1250 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1252 of 6596 Reply
cOmBaT sYsTeMs Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 10/17/99 4:13 am
I don't know how many of you out there play the palladium line of games,
but the combat system in their fantasy game is by far the simplest Ive
seen in a long time. This is what it looks like....
Player: Ok, I rolled a d20 to attack and got a 12. With my +2 to hit it
gives me a 14.
GM:He rolls a d20 to defend. shoot. only got a 4, and with the dodge bonus
it comes to 5. 14 isnt high enough to get past his armour, so roll your
damage and subtract it from his armour.
Ok, thats the simple way of it. I love this system because its fast, detailed,
unlike D&D there are no advanced rules for armour damage and the like...each
type of armour has an "Armour Rating"--if you get hit but the number they
hit you with is below your "AR" then it is simply damage taken from your
armour...wich has a specific amount of damage it can take.
The only problem is the world its set in, quite frankly Its not Forgotten
Realms or one of the other wonderful campaign settings. Ive often wanted
to switch over to this combat system, but it always seemed like soooo
much work....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1248 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1253 of 6596 Reply
Dragonlance SirNotAppearingInThisClub
(25/M/BC, Canada) 10/17/99 4:39 pm
Does anyone have access to the Dragonlance campaign rules? I was wondering
if anyone had any information regarding Wizards and if the different 'robes'(White,
Red, Black) were limited to certain spheres of magic that they could study.
I remember reading something somewhere that suggested this.
Anyone else a fan of the Dragonlance Chronicles books? I actually just
finished reading a book called 'Soulforge' which deals with the mage,
Raistlin, and his years growing up. I really enjoyed it. I recomend it
to anyone who likes Dragonlance and the character, Raistlin.
---
Message 1254 of 6596 Reply
Dragonlance SirNotAppearingInThisClub
(25/M/BC, Canada) 10/17/99 4:48 pm
I actually meant to say 'schools' of magic instead of 'spheres'
---
Message 1255 of 6596 Reply
Re: Dragonlance Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 10/18/99 12:02 am
Just so happens i picked up the dragonlance box set, updated for 2nd edition
rules, for 20 bucks at a gaming shop. It had been sitting on a shelf for
a year and noone picked it up so i lucked out.....What was it you needed?
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1254 by SirNotAppearingInThisClub
---
Message 1256 of 6596 Reply
St. Pete/Tampa area nightloch
10/18/99 3:37 am
I am looking for anyone interested in playing in the St. Petersburg/Tampa
Bay area. I am getting ready to kick off my campaign, and would even like
to play in someone elses. My campaign's website is www.homestead.com/shadowdale/main.html/
If interested, please notify me. Thanks!
Steve
---
Message 1257 of 6596 Reply
To hit: 2e vs 3e Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/18/99 9:45 am
>>2+1+1+2=6. Plus the 12 I rolled is....18. Did I hit?<<
In 3e edition you would know if you hit already without subtracting the
ac. It only takes out one part of the old formula away, the part you still
use everytime a combat comes up. That formula, Thac0-ac=tohit#, is now
ac=tohit#
As far as adding up a to hit roll, you shouldn't have to do that everytime.
On character sheets, +Att/+Dmg should already be listed with the weapon,
right next to thac0. And my characters should be playing with adjusted
thacO's too.
Maybe my example was bad, I think its just confusing to newer players
that you have to roll higher to hit lower numbers. It's not that much
different, its not rocket science - its just a little easier
Again, I'm not saying buy or don't buy 3e either way, the choice isn't
mine to make for anyone else.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1249 by fendicaf
---
Message 1258 of 6596 Reply
Re: Dragonlance SirNotAppearingInThisClub
(25/M/BC, Canada) 10/18/99 10:10 am
I was curious about a few things to do with wizards in the Dragonlance
campaign. What level can they rise to before they are required to take
the Test in the Towers Of High Sorcery? Are mages of the 3 different Robes
(White, Red, and Black) limited to learning only certain schools of magic
(Evocation, Alteration, Conjuration; etc.) depending on their Order or
can any Robe learn spells from any of the schools of magic? If the different
robes ARE limited to certain schools of magic, which Robes have access
to which schools? (White: Alteration, Evocation, Illusion...Black: Necromancy,
Conjuration...for example.)
I ordered a copy of "Tales Of The Lance" Boxed Set from Amazon.com. I'm
hoping that it's the campaign setting/rules set for Dragonlance (Why couldn't
they just call it 'Dragonlance Campaign Rules Set' or something simple
like that, so I would know for sure what to buy? ). Although it's
out of print, Amazon.com has come through for me in the past and managed
to find me other out-of-print books.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1255 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1259 of 6596 Reply
Re: cOmBaT sYsTeMs Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 10/18/99 1:38 pm
"I don't know how many of you out there play the palladium line of games,
but the combat system in their fantasy game is by far the simplest Ive
seen in a long time. This is what it looks like....
Player: Ok, I rolled a d20 to attack and got a 12. With my +2 to hit it
gives me a 14.
GM:He rolls a d20 to defend. shoot. only got a 4, and with the dodge bonus
it comes to 5. 14 isnt high enough to get past his armour, so roll your
damage and subtract it from his armour.
Ok, thats the simple way of it. I love this system because its fast, detailed,
unlike D&D there are no advanced rules for armour damage and the like...each
type of armour has an "Armour Rating"--if you get hit but the number they
hit you with is below your "AR" then it is simply damage taken from your
armour...wich has a specific amount of damage it can take. The only problem
is the world its set in, quite frankly Its not Forgotten Realms or one
of the other wonderful campaign settings. Ive often wanted to switch over
to this combat system, but it always seemed like soooo much work.... -Orgy"
They wounderfull thing about the Palladium game system is that it can
import weapons from other realms, for instance you and a "bad guy" are
sword fighting to the death, and I step through a Rift in a Glitterboy,
or how about a Veritech fighter or Cyclone... just an Idea, but still
end of story. it uses one damage system for small weapons like Two-handed
swords, SDC, and another for catapults and pulse rifles, MDC.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1252 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1260 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 10/19/99 8:05 am
I want to have a go at playing OA, how can I get into it without the rules
though?
Perhaps the GURPS rules for the Ageanten Empire or for Japan will be relvent,
though they are simmilar to one another.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1245 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1261 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 10/19/99 8:09 am
I'm going to set up a OA club under the guise of Roleplaying In The Ageanten
Empire, I'm going to use a fake name though and the catogory Prachett,
Terry as this is a convient way round some problems.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1260 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1262 of 6596 Reply
Re: Dragonlance Lord_Ixius
(20/M/Orange Park, FL) 10/19/99 12:22 pm
Mages have to rise to 3rd level before they can take the test. If they
continue to progress beyond 3rd without taking the test, they become a
renegade wizard and are dealt with accordingly by each of the different
orders of wizards.
Yes the different robes have major/minor access to different schools of
magic. I don't have my books with me and i don't remember what they are
off hand. But they are in the Tales of the Lance book.
The Tales of the Lance boxed set is indeed the campaign setting and rules
for DL. Another book you may want to consider getting is the Dragonlance
Adventures (DLA). It is an old hardback book. It was the rulesbook for
DL before the Tales of the Lance boxed set was released (both of which
are now out of print). The DLA goes more in depth about magic in general,
the towers of high sorcery, and the orders of mages than does the Tales
of the Lance.
Lastly, if you are really serious about DL, you may want to try to find
the Time of the Dragon boxed set. Whereas Tales of the Lance deals with
Ansalon (the continent where everything written takes place), Time of
the Dragon deals with other continent, Taladas. Great boxed set! I only
recommend it to the serious DL gamer or fan.
/~^*^~\
Lord Ixius
of Canston Manor
and
Keeper of the Silver Rose
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1258 by SirNotAppearingInThisClub
---
Message 1263 of 6596 Reply
Re: Dragonlance SirNotAppearingInThisClub
(25/M/BC, Canada) 10/19/99 2:35 pm
Great, thanks very much, Lord Ixius. Maybe what I'll do is order all three
of those books and see which ones become available, and for what prices.
Then I can decide from there which one(s) I'll buy. Thanks again!
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1262 by Lord_Ixius
---
Message 1264 of 6596 Reply
Re: Dragonlance Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 10/19/99 4:20 pm
I have the books at home, not in front of me. A quick pointer about schools
of magic and the three orders. Yes, as Ixius said, each order only has
access to the various schools. But only after someone joins the order
are they restricted. For the first 3 levels of advancement, magi are not
considered part of an order - this is usually decided for them as part
of the test. So any spell they get their hands on before joining an order
they can use, even after they join. Basically this makes pretty much all
1st and 2nd levels universal.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1262 by Lord_Ixius
---
Message 1265 of 6596 Reply
Re: Dragonlance the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 10/19/99 4:42 pm
The great thing about the ability to have any school in the first couple
of levels is that I can see a tendancy in the mage in question. As with
my own DL game, I give the young mage the opportunity to select a few
of the initial spells to see what they choose and then see how they use
those spells during the course of the first few adventures. This is very
handy information that will be used when I create the Test of High Sorcery
for that individual. Sometimes, the one who thinks he is going to be Red,
White, or Black robed turns out to find himself not at all like he imagined
: )
Good Luck in your DragonLance Gaming...its my favorite world...thanks
m'Lord
-The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1264 by
---
Message 1266 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures shinto_gaijin
10/19/99 10:03 pm
Beard_Y
If there is more interest, (currently only two, I would prefer at least
three or four PC's) I will help everyone flesh out the details of the
character classes and what each entails through e-mail.
No rulebooks would be required for the PC's, I'll handle everything (the
mechanics, etc.) through description and common sense. The setting, culture
and atmosphere of the orient is what sets OA apart from other fantasy
realms, not the particular rules.
For example, while it is useful for a player to know that his PC has a
DEX of 17, a character is not going to be able quantify it beyond having
better natural talent with DEX associated skills (missile weapons, dodging
attacks, hand-eye coordination, etc.) than just about everyone he or she
knows .. I'm currently teaching my wife (a first-time role-player) to
play, and know first hand that the details are not necessary to make the
game work for a player.
Anyone else want to play in a message-board style OA campaign??
s/g
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1260 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1267 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 10/20/99 3:27 am
I would be interested in playing. I don't own any rulebooks for OA either.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1266 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1268 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 10/20/99 6:15 am
Thanks, I've set up a message board/chat room for OA and similar RPGs
at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/roleplayinginageanteanempire but I haven't
got the book, if you could possibly see your way to DMing campaign 2 it
would be a great help (Campaign Two is the message board OA campaign,
there are 6 campigns in total).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1266 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1269 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 10/20/99 11:54 am
SHINTO!! I am just about DYING to play OA....I have a samuri all set...have
test played her, but i think I might need refinement. This little test
party also has a wu-jen and a monk. I would like to play her again!!!
email me, and I'll give you her stats....
dragn_lady@yahoo.com
I appreciate the input...
Stacy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1266 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1270 of 6596 Reply
Re: 3rd Ed- my 2 cents worth tolin_goldbeard
(20/M/The Netherlands) 10/20/99 5:25 pm
The moment I heard about positive armor class and thaco advancement I
implemented it in my game (I have played for 4 to 5 years, but quite actively,
2-3 sessions in a week. I don't watch TV...) and it('s just) RULES!
It takes slightly lesst ime to calculate, and the less busy you are with
numbers the better I think...
Tolin
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1247 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1271 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures Rune_Lord
(312/M/Somewhere in Faerun) 10/20/99 9:18 pm
ME-ME, Pick me. I am interested in playing an OA adventure. It has been
five years since I played and could stand playing another OA character.
Let me know...I have the books and what not..//
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1266 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1272 of 6596 Reply
Oriental Adventures shinto_gaijin
10/20/99 11:12 pm
So far, I have five volunteers, which should be plenty to handle, but
I won't turn anyone away out-right.
The names I have so far are: SCA Bard, Beard Y, Eoganachta, dragn lady,
and Rune Lord.
I will set up a new club and invite you all .. it should be set up within
the next day or two (if I can pry myself away from Might&Magic VII long
enough to get it all arranged).
Beard Y .. thanks for the offer for a site, but I'd prefer to establish
one from scratch.
The setting will be feudal Japan, and will include as much historical
accuracy as I can muster (I've been refining this campaign for nearly
ten years (as I learn more and more about Japanese history and culture),
but have only seldom had the opportunity to play test it.)
dragn lady .. playing a female Samurai should be interesting (to say the
least), gender equality is not a trait that is associated with Japanese
society today, and is certainly not part of their history.
I'll e-mail with more info shortly .. this is exciting (lots of things
are going right today).
---
Message 1273 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 10/21/99 11:25 am
I would like to try out oriental adventures as well. I don't have the
books myself but I can muster a 1st edition book...
-Atesh
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1272 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1274 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 10/21/99 7:11 pm
Shinto...a couple things...talking with my husband, the Sage, he'd like
to replay his monk, get him going again. As for me, I can play male characters
just as easy as female...which ever you'd prefer, especially with the
equality thing. I am flexible!! Though, I played her as having "attitude"
as the wu-jen got her in trouble (in her duties as samuri) and she was
really ticked over that.....had to make sure he didn't do it again.......she
definitely did NOT want to become ronin..............
DL
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1272 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1275 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures shinto_gaijin
10/21/99 7:51 pm
dragn .. I'll have to take a careful look at the Oriental monk class ..
I normally don't allow them as PC's .. as for the female samurai .. it's
fantasy, we can do just about anything .. and these are heroes we're talking
about, the stuff legends are made of .. what's normal doesn't attractMessage
1316 of 6607 Reply
Mood setting Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/5/99 2:47 pm
This is a good site for things to do to get into the mood for role-playing,
very helpful for DM's. I'm sure some of you have already seen this and
it wouldn't hurt to read again.
http://www.pbem.com/info/jk-advice.html
Its good for a general middle ages type campaign, well just good in general
for that matter.
--- attention.
atesh .. no problem .. read back .. no books required.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1274 by dragn_lady
---
Message 1276 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 10/21/99 9:10 pm
Kewl, Shinto!! The monk class was taken from first ed D&D rules. They
were the best. As far as my samuri, really kewl!! If you want, I can probably
pull it off......
DL
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1275 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1277 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 10/21/99 10:44 pm
I rather thought that a few shogun's wives/lovers fought with them at
some point...one ruled for her son as a while as the Ama-Shogun or Nun
Warlord (she became a Buddist (I think) nun after the male shogun was
killed until her son was of age).
OK, so maybe not samurai exactly... But they certainly were out there
cracking heads, at least on occasion.
History tidbit brought to you by...the letter Q and the number pi.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1276 by dragn_lady
---
Message 1278 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures shinto_gaijin
10/22/99 12:13 am
SCA .. I'd be extremely interested to read about an Ama-Shogun .. if you
could give me an approximate date, I have numerous resources to look this
up myself ..
DL .. as for the Oriental Monk, I agree that the original class was much
more suited to Kara-Tur than Greyhawk, and is probably part of the inspiration
for Gygax, Cook, etc. to pen OA in the first place.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1277 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1279 of 6596 Reply
OA OA OAOA fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 10/22/99 7:01 pm
Shinto as Dragn Lady said, I played the fighting Monk PC. It was very
interesting as part of his ethos his was forbiden to speak to women and
could not eat red meat.
Not being able to speak to another party member made for some real ...
interesting roleplaying. I would like to play him again but ifyou would
ather not we can come up with something else. Either way I WANT TO PLAY!!!!!!
I've been DM'ing for so long I almost forget what it's like to play.
---
Message 1280 of 6596 Reply
Critical Hits. Tree0770
(??/M/The Enchanted Forest.) 10/22/99 8:34 pm
Wondering if anyone has, or knows where I can get a copy of the article
"Good Hits, Bad Misses" from the dragon magazine. It was published back
in issue #37 or 57 ... thanks
---
Message 1281 of 6596 Reply
Re: Critical Hits. Rune_Lord
(312/M/Somewhere in Faerun) 10/22/99 11:21 pm
I got a copy of it...can send you a photo copy of it or the Word Doc of
it that I re-typed. Let me know which one you'd like.
Rune Lord
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1280 by Tree0770
---
Message 1282 of 6596 Reply
Re: Critical Hits. Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 10/23/99 3:00 am
Hey, mind if i take a look at that? You could send the word doc version
to me....my email address is Doublethink@excite.com
thanx.
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1281 by Rune_Lord
---
Message 1283 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 10/23/99 10:24 am
A friend sent me some info on the Bushi and the Wu-Jen, after considering
everything I have decided I want to be a Bushi.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1278 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1284 of 6596 Reply
Tower of High Sorcery mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 10/24/99 8:20 pm
there is clubs for artifacts, Magic items and spells, and artifacts. If
you wish to discuss the backbones of AD&D then join this club:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/towerofhighsorcerywayreth?as
m.
---
Message 1285 of 6596 Reply
Help? mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 10/24/99 8:44 pm
Hey guys, im working on a netbook of artifacts and would greately appreciate
some 9ideas or one already made. if someone sends me an idea you will
be given full credit for your submission.
C.J.
---
Message 1286 of 6596 Reply
Re: Help? queen_faeryl
10/24/99 11:09 pm
Hi, I've just joined this club so I don't quite know the way of it yet,
but here is a set of artifacts that I've created for my world.Long ago,
several millennia in the past, a the Council of the Great Wyrm, with 9
members of various races of dragons, created a set of 9 enchanted mirrors
that they might communicate and send their messengers and servants between
them. Each of the mirrors was named, and in their forging blood of the
original nine councilmembers was used in cooling the crafted mithril that
the magics imbued in them might last until the end of time, as their respective
races would.The powers of the mirrors, when activated, enabled the user
to communicate through (Comprehend Languages) them, travel between them
regardless of location or plane, to use true sight, penetrate the most
potent magical defenses, and could be used to cast spells (and physical
weaponry) through. These abilities, were it not for the limitations placed
upon the mirrors, would make the mirrors even more dangerous weapons than
they already were.The limitations placed made it so that:1. Although they
were created by and for dragons, dragonkind themselves could not travel
between them, thus they could not war upon one another directly.2. Only
a true magic-using creatures (such as dragons, leprachauns, etc), magic
talented individuals (wizards, bards, those with latent magickal ability)
could use the mirrors. Nonmagickal creatures and those using deitial magic
(paladins, clerics, avatars) and nature magic (druids, rangers, treants)
could not.3. In order to use a mirror the user must be in physical contact
with it, usually by touching the frame, and then (if desired) by physically
passing through it. When physical contact is broken, the connection ends.
If someone or something is caught "between" they are lost in extradimensional
space.4. The user must speak the true name of the mirror which he is trying
to reach. If no name is spoken, the connection is random.5. Once a connection
is made, anyone on the other end may also act through the open portal.6.
When used between two separate planes, the passage of time can (and often
will) be affected.Over the intervening millenia, through catastrophe and
deception, most of the mirrors became lost. Their locations, and often
their names are unknown.In my world, currently the location and names
of four of the mirrors are known. Two other names are known, but the locations
of the mirrors to which they belong are not. I've used these mirrors as
an outstanding plot device, as one of the mirrors are in the hands of
my PCs arch enemy, two are in theirs, and one is located in an unknown
(and dreadful) place known as "Ravenloft". I've used these mirrors to
surreptitiously kidnap important NPCs, introduce agents for the enemy,
potential allies, and conduct espionage... and as always, they stand as
much threat to the party as they are of good use.Any questions, please
feel free to email me.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1285 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1287 of 6596 Reply
RE: 9 Mirrors shinto_gaijin
10/25/99 4:22 am
queen_faeryl ..
The nine mirrors sound like a really interesting centerpiece for a long-standing
campaign .. just when you think the seach is over, a clue about a new
mirror (or some curious sucker, or entire adventuring party, who passed
through one of the existing mirrors; or some poor soul who was lost in
"extradimensional space" for ages) pops up ..
And then when you've finally recaptured all nine mirrors, a member of
the Council of the Great Wyrm (with a few dozen of his buddies) shows
up and wants his back (or all of them, to re-establish the Council) ..
What happens if you try to contact an active mirror (do you get a busy
signal or a conference call) ??
What happens if one active mirror comes in physical contact another active
mirror (If they're communicating with separate locations or if they're
communicating with each other) ??
Could you see a vampire through the mirror (no reflection .. no image
in a mirror .. ) ??
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1286 by queen_faeryl
---
Message 1288 of 6596 Reply
Re: Critical Hits. Tree0770
(??/M/The Enchanted Forest.) 10/25/99 12:12 pm
You can send me the word doc. Thanks... my address is Tree0770@yahoo.com
...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1281 by Rune_Lord
---
Message 1289 of 6596 Reply
Re: Help? Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 10/25/99 2:41 pm
I once created a spell called Turpinseed's Flameball using only the orginal
D&D rules, it was esentially identical to the Fireball spell but did double
damage and was a 4th level spell, another spell I created was called Rincewind's
Banana Summoner (this name is quite funny if you know who Rincewind is
and a little bit of his history), I don't feel it's appropriate but if
you want to include it then it should be a downgrade of a suitble food
creation spell.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1285 by mkinjubhy
--
Message 1290 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures shinto_gaijin
10/25/99 7:50 pm
I apologize for getting everyone worked up and excited about adventuring
in the Orient .. I have had a couple of projects come up at work over
the past week and will be unable to devote the time to DM a campaign for
the next month or so.
During this time, however, I will continue preparing, fleshing out the
campaign, and making as much information as possible available online,
as well as adapting the particulars of each class to be compatible with
2nd Ed. ..
I will make formal announcements (and invitations) once everything is
ready to go.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1283 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1291 of 6596 Reply
Re: Oriental Adventures shinto_gaijin
10/25/99 7:57 pm
anyone wishing to discuss OA, in the meantime, join us (already a few
members) at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/orientaladventures
s/g
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1290 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1292 of 6596 Reply
Queen faeryl mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 10/25/99 10:01 pm
Thanks for the artifact, could you possibly send me your email address
and or name for the book? (otherwise ill just put queen faeryl, which
is fine too.)
thanks again,
C.J. miller
---
Message 1293 of 6596 Reply
Magical Aging m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 10/26/99 2:27 am
So...how do y'all handle magical aging for non humans? There is an obscure
note on the age spell in the high level campaigns book...but is there
any other rule about this...it seems that elves have no fear of ghosts
and/or casting spells that age the caster unless some sort of ruling is
made...has anyone out there encountered this problem?
mr. Furious
---
Message 1294 of 6596 Reply
Re: Magical Aging shinto_gaijin
10/26/99 2:53 am
I have seen non-human un-natural aging explained in one way: it's a trade
off for level restrictions.
and (in a different campaign) played another: any place it mentions "years"
in a magical aging context, replace "years" with "percent of the base
maximum age", ie: a situation where a human would age 10 years changes
to 10% of 90 (or 9 years-no big change), but for an elf, it changes from
10 years to 10% of ~1200 (or 120 years-huge difference). This is more
than enough to cause an elf to re-think his immortality.
However, part of the difference between the races is a humans compartitively
short lifespan, which (in my opinion) encourages ambition, and explains
the lack of limits on a human PC's experience levels.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1293 by m_furious
---
Message 1295 of 6596 Reply
Re: Magical Aging fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 10/26/99 9:47 pm
I like that magical aging ruling "percent of base maximum age". I am definately
going to incorporate that into my own game.
Thanx,
The Blind Sage of Elversult
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1294 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1296 of 6596 Reply
Anyone in Arizona? king_rand_iii
(34/M/Scottsdale, AZ) 10/28/99 11:43 am
Hi, I am new to the club and looking for a game or players to start a
game? Any suggestion?
---
Message 1297 of 6596 Reply
AD&D Adventures Corpheous
(17/M/NY) 10/28/99 1:14 pm
You are all obviously DMs and so I shall list here my web page with lots
of AD&D adventures so you don't have to go looking for them. I only ask
that you vote for your favorite race! That's it! Sometimes homestead gets
overflowed with download requests though and you may have to try at night.
http://www.homestead.com/dungeonsNdragons
Thanks a bunch and have fun!
-Corpheous
---
Message 1298 of 6596 Reply
1000 Netbooks JasonLotito
(19/M/Stoudsburg, PA) 10/28/99 6:00 pm
Help! I have a web site with 1000+ Netbooks, and well, it is just to much
work for me to upkeep alone? I need people willing to work with me to
make this a great place!
If you are interested, email me at jason@farrellstudio.com
Make the Subject [NETBOOK-JOB]
Here is the site address
http://netbooks.atfantasy.com/index.html
Thank you, and please help!!!!
---
Message 1299 of 6596 Reply
Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas Bane1975
(24/M/Central Kentucky) 10/30/99 8:26 pm
Does anyone have it and is it worth the money?
---
Message 1300 of 6596 Reply
Re: Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas jimanda1
(26/M/Colorado) 10/31/99 1:02 am
They are hard to come by in this area. I heard that here may have been
a recall due to a really big (35+ MB) set of files being left off the
CD on accident. Just a rumour though :) Haven't seen it on the Wizards
store for awhile either
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1299 by Bane1975
---
Message 1301 of 6605 Reply
Aquired Forgotten Realms Atlas Bane1975
(24/M/Central Kentucky) 11/1/99 7:31 pm
Don't waste your money on it, it's not user friendly at all, no listing
of the maps unless you do a search, and you must use a shitty map maker
to make adjustments.
---
Message 1302 of 6605 Reply
Re: Aquired Forgotten Realms Atlas jimanda1
(26/M/Colorado) 11/1/99 10:52 pm
I dunno...maybe it is my negative reaction to the changes that were made
in 3rd edition, but I have to wonder if the best things we may see out
of Wizards from here on out is the "reprint" modules they are doing. After
seeing the FR archive CD myself I was not at all impressed...anyone could
have done better with Microsoft Access and a scanner...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1301 by Bane1975
---
Message 1303 of 6605 Reply
Re: 1000 Netbooks...hmmmm Corpheous
(17/M/NY) 11/2/99 8:18 am
Does the job pay?
-Corpheous - Freelancer for Hire
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1298 by JasonLotito
---
Message 1304 of 6605 Reply
Re: Aquired Forgotten Realms Atlas Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/3/99 6:03 am
Maybe if someone made a disk image and sent it to me i could try this
atlas for meslf....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1302 by jimanda1
---
Message 1305 of 6605 Reply
Please help me......... mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 11/3/99 5:16 pm
Hey Guys, two days ago i started my campaign 9over lunch we play at school)
and i have a question. Should i be very descriptive of the world or should
i be like theres a building, and a door.
C.j. miller "Newbie" DM
----
Message 1306 of 6605 Reply
Re: Please help me......... wolflaughing
(34/M/miami,fla.) 11/3/99 5:34 pm
Always be descriptive as possible it helps the players(and yourself visualize
the scene). But do not drone on about every detail till you turn into
an endless monologue that puts everyone to sleep. heh. i.e. describe the
style of the building annd the numbers of floors and such but dont mention
how many windows or what the bushes are unless someone asks. (my that
droned a little bit itself didnt it?)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1305 by mkinjubhy
---
<- Previous Next -> Message 1307 of 6605 Reply
Re: Please help me......... shinto_gaijin
11/3/99 5:53 pm
Have a good idea what the details are in advance, so that (1) you're not
fumbling and stammering during the game, and (2) you already have a clear
image of what's happening.
Make plenty of notes before the adventure, and usually give one or two
descriptors of things, ie: a sturdy-looking stone building; or a rotting
wooden door, barely hanging on it's hinges.
Keep in mind, when your characters are new, they are not "experts" in
anything, so too much description is unrealistic, for example: unless
one of them is an accomplished dwarven stone mason, they might see a "study-looking
building", where the mason might see, "an expertly constructed three-story
mansion, designed to weather the elements and with defense in mind, constructed
in the style of Logarr Hamerfist."
Using a bit of description is only really important if it is occaisionally
a clue to what might happen later. If the only description you give are
clues, it's too easy, but if you never incorporate a hint or clue into
the description, the players will never pay any attention to you, when
they should be hanging at your every word.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1306 by wolflaughing
---
Message 1308 of 6605 Reply
Re: Queen faeryl queen_faeryl
11/3/99 9:13 pm
Thanks for responding! That was my first post, I just joined the club.
The mirrors are my own creation, in a world of my own creation called
Shansar (using & altering Greyhawk maps but everything else is my own).
I'd be interested in seeing the list when it's done.
Thanks,
Angela
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1292 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1309 of 6605 Reply
RE: 9 Mirrors shinto_gaijin
11/4/99 1:35 am
queen_faeryl ..
I was really intrigued by your campaign setting (despite the silly questions
I asked).
welcome aboard.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1287 by shinto_gaijin View Replies to this Message
---
Message 1310 of 6605 Reply
RE: 9 Mirrors queen_faeryl
(30/F/Baltimore MD) 11/4/99 3:06 pm
Thanks! So far, after 2 years of on-off gaming, my players have covered
about 3 years of game time, and still don't realize the origin or the
long-term implications of the mirrors.
For where they're at:
1. VAELON: In the bedchamber of their enemy (PCs know location and name)
2. MIRMINDYN: In the basement of their King's palace (PCs know location
and name)
3. SHAEFOR: In an embassy of their King's in a foreign land (PCs know
location and name)
4. KALLDEIR: In a vampire's abode in a dread land called Ravenloft (PCs
know location and name)
5. XYTHRAER: In the hoard of a Golden Great Wyrm
6. HYMSHAEFIL: In the bottom of the Great Valden Sea
7. DRAEKAEL: In one of the abyssal planes (PCs know name)
8. PHAESTREON: In the underdark abode of a Drow Queen
9. NYL'DATH: In a dead wizards tower which is buried under a rockslide
(PCs know name)
As for your questions:
A vampire would be visible due to the fact that once activated the mirrors
are portals. Their appearance as mirrors are really only disguises. Also,
invisible, polymorphed, and other types of magical disguises would be
seen through, because the Mirrors also imbue true sight.
In the event of someone trying to use a mirror to contact a mirror (or
mirrors) in use, the connection would occur, and would in effect look
like a split-screen TV.
If two mirrors were to come into physical contact, when not in use, nothing
would happen, as it takes someone activating them to awaken their abilities.
If they were activated, the mirrors would be destroyed (as would much
of the surround area).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1309 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1311 of 6605 Reply
Re: Queen faeryl mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 11/4/99 4:27 pm
Ok ill let you know when I get the list but right now youre the only one
to send one!
C>j. Miller
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1308 by queen_faeryl
---
Message 1312 of 6605 Reply
Re: Queen faeryl Tree0770
(??/M/The Enchanted Forest.) 11/4/99 9:31 pm
I have found some list of old magic items I had created a long time ago...
get me your email and I will send you a list with discriptions...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1311 by mkinjubhy
----
Message 1313 of 6605 Reply
Re: Queen faeryl queen_faeryl
(30/F/Baltimore MD) 11/4/99 11:04 pm
You can email me at Queen_Faeryl@yahoo.com
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1312 by Tree0770
---
Message 1314 of 6605 Reply
magic item list Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 11/5/99 1:23 am
tree0770
send it to me also please
charlier64@yahoo.com
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1312 by Tree0770
---
Message 1315 of 6605 Reply
Re: Queen faeryl Sir_Bluetooth
(19/M/Kearney, NE) 11/5/99 9:30 am
If it would not be too much trouble I would like the list as well.
Thanks,
Sir_Bluetooth@yahoo.com
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1312 by Tree0770
---
Message 1316 of 6607 Reply
Mood setting Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/5/99 2:47 pm
This is a good site for things to do to get into the mood for role-playing,
very helpful for DM's. I'm sure some of you have already seen this and
it wouldn't hurt to read again.
http://www.pbem.com/info/jk-advice.html
Its good for a general middle ages type campaign, well just good in general
for that matter.
---
Message 1317 of 6607 Reply
Guns in AD&D m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 11/6/99 12:13 am
For the most part, DM's and Players agree that Guns do not belong in a
fantasy role playing game. I think this is a good place to start with
AD&D, but both of my large campaigns feature guns, here's why:
The idea that magic is on the decline and technology and reason are taking
over really makes for a interesting world to live in. Some players feel
it is their duty to uphold the "values" of magic and mysticism in the
world almost like like saying "if man were ment to fly he would have been
born with wings". The guns are few and far between, and in the beginning
the players don't even know what they are, The fear of the unknown 'rod
of missiles' really gets the players blood boiling, and their characters
follow.
Also, in our world history, there has never been a time or place where
plate armor and hvy crossbows existed without guns right along side of
them. Even the welsh long bow was followed very closly by the first guns.
Guns are the great equallizer in history and in AD&D. With open ended
damage and the ability to ignore armor, A tenth level fighter vs. a shop
full of 1st level pirates becomes an even match, as it should be. Longbowmen
were trained from age ten to be marksmen, but crossbowmen and handgonners
were practically hired off the streets.
That is my rant and rave of the week. Don't be scared of guns in AD&D
if you have experiece DMing and are a little tired of the same old same
old. Even if you hate guns at least use the Crossbow stats from the Combat
and Tactics book. Otherwise there isn't a reason under the sun for someone
to be proficient in one. To represent the point and shoot ease of use
in crossbows, I have the crossbow proficiency include all forms of crossbows
and balistae.
Furious
P.S. If anyone is interested in hearing some great gun stories from my
gaming (a ravenloft setting) I'd be glad to share.
P.P.S. If you ever catch the history channel's Arms and Armor series,
it is great. The last chapter is about early guns and it is quite interesting
and funny too (early guns were VERY dangerous for the Handgonner "He's
a Gonner...")
---
Message 1318 of 6607 Reply
Re: Mood setting m_furious
(23/M/Connecticut) 11/6/99 12:14 am
Very cool...If this were a DM's purity test I think I would score about
a 30...
Furious
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1316 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1319 of 6607 Reply
New On-Line Game starting greenmage8
11/6/99 2:07 pm
Howdy!, I'm starting a conference game on Thursday nights 9-11 eastcoast
time. Anybody interested check out this website for details "www.geocities.com/area51/shire/8244"
Let the carnage begin! Bwa! Ha! Ha!
---
Message 1320 of 6607 Reply
Re: Guns in AD&D Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 11/6/99 2:26 pm
"That is my rant and rave of the week. Don't be scared of guns in AD&D
if you have experiece DMing and are a little tired of the same old same
old. Even if you hate guns at least use the Crossbow stats from the Combat
and Tactics book. Otherwise there isn't a reason under the sun for someone
to be proficient in one. To represent the point and shoot ease of use
in crossbows, I have the crossbow proficiency include all forms of crossbows
and balistae. Furious P.S. If anyone is interested in hearing some great
gun stories from my gaming (a ravenloft setting) I'd be glad to share.
P.P.S. If you ever catch the history channel's Arms and Armor series,
it is great. The last chapter is about early guns and it is quite interesting
and funny too (early guns were VERY dangerous for the Handgonner "He's
a Gonner...")
My reply in 2 fold, first is I Personally IRL use a .50 caliber blackpowder
musket, it's heavy, kicks like a mule, fairly accurate out to 100 yards
with a LOT of Practice... I use 385 grain Slugs with 120 grain of Pyrodex
powder with is MUST safer than traditional blackpower, it ia also not
as subjective to weather as traditional black powerd is, whick means I
can use it in the rain (provided I keep it at least coverd).
Now, I use a side lock percussion rifle, a Flintlock is Compleatly worthless
in foul weather, as would a matchlock or arqabus.
I've NEVER had a load fail to fire, I HAVE had to reprime, clean the cap
nipple, and use several caps to get it to go off, but EVERY bullet I've
loaded has been fired. it is a FUN hobby, I enjoy spending 3 hours at
the range to fire my 25 shots per visit, I teach a few newbies some tricks
of the trade, and learn from the old pro's that use the same range as
I do.
the only thing I have to say about HUNTING with a Black Powder Musket
is, what ever you do, Do Not Miss! you only get one shot, and that Deer
is JUST as likly to Charge as it is to Run.
second reply is this: While guns "Could" be made readilly availibe, Why
would you want them in a traditional style AD&D game? and if you gonna
have guns, why not microwaves and cars too? Hell! Why bother with the
Armor and the Swords, and just pack a 9 and a leather jacket hangin' with
your homies??
The Point Is to be invovled with a FANTASY game.
if you WANT a gun, find a way to Make one.
For instance, a hand crossbow where the bolt tip is coverd with oil of
Impact.
I have NEVER been in a game where a modern fire arm was allowed, mainly
because that defeted the point of the game...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1317 by m_furious
---
Message 1321 of 6607 Reply
Hello from the new member mathis_ent
11/7/99 2:03 pm
I am Zodiac lord of the twelve and creator of the world of Mistrell. I
just wanted to say that I am glad I joined the group and that I usually
DM a group of about six on my own world. If there is anything I can contribute
I will.
---
Message 1322 of 6607 Reply
Tiki warning SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 11/7/99 9:03 pm
I loved the GM inspirations page...
Just one thing about #48, try to carry a torch (even a Tiki torch) and
do anything else...
It's not a terribly good idea to carry a lit tiki. If the fuel spills,
you've got GM flambe. In this respect, a traditional torch (some oil(?)
soaked rags wrapped on a stick) is safer (maybe) since it won't spill.
(I'm guessing you wrap the rags on with wire or else it would fall off
as it burns?...)
Hmm...Anyone in here actually *know* how to make a good, safe torch?
---
Message 1323 of 6607 Reply
Re: Tiki warning Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/8/99 3:26 am
It's my understanding they used pitch on those torches, a sticky tar-like
substance that burns nice and slow and soaks into the wood. They'd soak
the end in pitch and there would be no need to wrap cloth around the end....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1322 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1324 of 6607 Reply
Re: Tiki warning Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/8/99 7:52 am
That's intresting, and useful.
At the moment I'm GMing/DMing a cross-world campaign. The theory of L-Space
says that all libaries are one and the same libary. I want the PCs to
have access to Krynn, the Dragonlance world, but I don't known enough
about it's geography to know where to put the main libary. I also wanted
libaries in Ravenloft and the world created by queen_fayrel to be involved.
The campagin requires 8 items of 8 types in 8 worlds.
The 8 worlds are, the Disc, Earth, the Shou Empire, the Realms, Krynn
(Dragonlance), Ravenloft, Titan and the world created by queen_fayrel
The 8 iten types are
Libaries, Mirrors, Moonblades, Magical Crossbows, Major NPCs, Wands/Rods/Staffs/Broomsticks,
Inns, Unique Magical items
At the moment I have 8 libaries for the Disc, 8 for the Earth, 8 for the
Shou Empire and 4 for the Realms.
I have 6 Mirrors for the Disc, 1 for Ravenloft and 8 for queen_fayrel.
The one in Ravenloft is the one queen_fayrel lists as being in Ravenloft.
I have 1 moonblade for the Disc and 1 for the Realms.
8 Major NPCs for the Disc.
3 Unique Magical Items for the Disc.
Ideas for additions/locations/names of items welcome.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1323 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1325 of 6607 Reply
Re: Tiki warning dmfromhell
11/8/99 9:55 am
Actually as far as the torch thing he is right about the pitch, but another
historicaly acurate torch is reeds. Just band them together and light
em up, thye are usually pretty difficult to get going unlike the pitch
you need more than a lighter or match but once lit they burn for several
hours, with minimal smoke and none of that noxiouse fumes from pitch.
These are idea for caving or enclosed areas.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1324 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1326 of 6607 Reply
Re: Tiki warning Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 11/8/99 3:43 pm
Storvick, Storvick... where in the mundane world is Storvick?
I'm near the kingdom of the Miridies, Barony of the SouthDowns, shire
of the Owlsnest (aka Atlanta, ga)
I am a MailSmith there...
(meaning I make chainmail armor)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1322 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1327 of 6607 Reply
Re: Tiki warning Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/9/99 3:34 am
The Great Library on Krynn is located in a city called Palanthus, and
it is headed by the great scholar Astinus, who has only stopped writing
twice in the existence of the realm. In actual fact, he is the Neutral
God, Gilean, in mortal form, and he writes the history of krynn as it
unfolds. As for moonblades, well, they are unique to the realms and I
know that arilyn Moonblade posses one and another is in the hands of the
Serpent, Elaith Craulnober, a renegade elf assassin. Due to the nature
of the moonblades many of them are now defunct, as they die when the last
line of the family they were created for passes on or there are no more
heirs to claim the sword. this can be 2 seperate things because moonblades
have been known (in the case of the Serpent) to reject their heirs and
elect to "die" so to speak. I believe there are several families still
in possession of moonblades on Evermeet, but I dont have the books on
that place so I am not sure. I do know, however, that several blades were
buried in the crypts below Myth Drannor with the elven families who possessed
them. If your looking for good places to hide things in these realms,
Pax Tharkas in Dragonlance was a great city swallowed up by the earth.
Its a lot like Myth Drannor (these premade settings all have similarities)
so you could go from there. Some other interesting places in the realms
might be...The Yawning Portal in Waterdeep which has a portal to Kelemvor's
city of Strife, The ruins of Myth Drannor, The ruins in Anauroch...I cant
for the life of me remember what they are called....of course, theres
the underdark, which is a whole other place in itself, and undermountain,
below waterdeep....
Im not sure If Ive helped you at all but if this is what your looking
for Im sure i could come up with more stuff...
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1324 by Beard_Y
----
Message 1328 of 6607 Reply
Storvick SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 11/9/99 11:00 am
It's in Atlantia...DC metro area
SCA BArd
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1326 by Elkin_DeathBlade
---
Message 1329 of 6607 Reply
Re: Tiki warning atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 11/9/99 1:07 pm
Umm...one correction it has never been proven that Astinus is Gilean.
Why would such a great god need an instrement to see events. And in the
Brother's War, all of the Gods were dead, except Paladine, yet Astinus
was still alive. Astinus is probaly only Gilean's avatar.
-Atesh
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1327 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1330 of 6607 Reply
Re: Tiki warning Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/10/99 1:59 am
Which brings on an intersting point....what exactly IS an avatar?
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1329 by atesh42
---
Message 1331 of 6607 Reply
Avatar ?? dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/10/99 7:40 am
AN avatar is an incarnation of a god. It is not possible that Astinus
is Gileans Avatar because an avatar has the soul of the god within it.
Typicaly avatars are found in egyptian mythology, in cases where man attempted
to force the spirit of a god into their own earthly body, thus gaining
that gods power and imortality. Their are several scrolls on display at
the Smithsonian which hold authentic encantaions used by the sorcers of
egypt in attempts to trap the spirits of gods. It is usaully said that
these spells were traps used by the gods to reveal those who would attempt
to challenge them, on the speaking of the encantation the god would appear
and smite the sorcer, thus removing any one who would challenge their
omnipotence.
---
Message 1332 of 6607 Reply
Re: Avatar ?? Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/10/99 9:36 am
An even better example might be the christian one - because there seems
to be a good number of people who are familiar with it (whether or not
they believe in it). Jesus is an avatar of God. It was his form on earth.
He was only one aspect of the whole that made up God. While on earth,
he didn't have knowledge that he was God - there are times he too prayed
to God. The God aspect of God was still where it was supposed to be. The
Jesus aspect could be and was killed, this really didn't harm the God
aspect in any way.
I do think Astinius is an Avatar, and if you like, you can call him Gilean.
But as an Avatar, he is like the rest of mortals on earth and has no access
to all the powers that the Gilean aspect has.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1331 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1333 of 6607 Reply
Re: Avatar ?? dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/10/99 11:46 am
I am a historian by trade and I have always been interested in the concepts
of avatars. A better example of a known avatar would be the hindu diety
Vishnu. You kill the man you kill the god. And another point is that Astinus
could be Gilean because Gilean wasn't dead, the gods left the realm of
their own free will. If there would have been one god allowed to stay
in avatar form it would have been Gilean the neutral god. Well anyways
the direction I meant to go with this reply was that Jesus is a bad examnple
and should never be used in a discussion on a world based forum, to many
the use of Jesus as an example is irrelavent do to varrying beliefs, and
this is not the place for a theological debate. I for one vote that all
religiouse issues in the game stay on a game level and not extend into
RL.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1332 by
---
Message 1334 of 6607 Reply
Charts steam34
(34/M/Berwyn, IL) 11/10/99 11:49 am
New guy here. Could anybody point the way to AD&D tables? I'm bascially
looking for the stuff from the Players handbook and the DM guide.
---
Message 1335 of 6607 Reply
Sat game.... VolkamGreatforge
(31/M/Yuba City, CA) 11/10/99 12:45 pm
Hello everyone...for those that are interested I am running a one day
army campaign and would like to see if anyone would like to take me up
on this please check my club...http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/adanddstronghold
Volkam
---
Message 1336 of 6608 Reply
Re: Avatar ?? Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/10/99 3:29 pm
What then needs to be done then is to have a set definition of Avatar
in game terms (as was mentioned). I've always interpreted it as (and I
believe it was this in the books - hence the reason I interpreted it this
way) that when an Avatars is killed the god does not die - I do believe
in game terms that a part of that god does die, but the god itself does
not. All such omnipotent beings must be killed on their plane of existence
and most do not exist on the prime material plane where most Avatars are
seen. Quite different then the first example used based on the real world
(that an Avatar is the the gods soul and killing the Avatar kills the
god). Then again, Dragonlance is on it's own plane of existence (I believe
but could be wrong) seperate from the prime material plane. In fact I
think that Avatars, in game terms, are what the gods use as links between
themselves on their natural plane of existence and other planes of existence.
Sure they can travel to other plans, but why risk it (dying) when they
can send a small portion of themselves as a representative (usually limited
in power as compared to their true selves, but effective nonetheless).
Please remember, I'm saying this is from published TSR material (as I
recall it and I'm known to be wrong from time to time) and in no way reflects
anything from the real world. I believe we're trying to find out what
an avatar is in game terms. So lets get to that point first. I admit,
my example, based on my understanding (in game terms and nothing to do
with the real world) of Avatars, was bad as I made a mistake by using
a real world example. And if we want to leave out religions (or anything
from the real world) let's just say 'let's not use this as an example'
and not give a reason why. It's usually these reasons that start the big
stupid religious flame thread wars.
And another thing, about your location, military?
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1333 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1337 of 6608 Reply
Re: Avatar ?? Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/10/99 5:54 pm
Heres a quote I pulled from "Dragons of Summer Flame"...
"You showed Palin the book," Raistlin said. I grant this is not unusual,
but you showed him the book in order to force him to make a decision.
And you hate meddling in the affairs of men."
"Mankinds affairs are my affairs." Said Astinus. "How not? I have lived
them, every one of them, for centuries."
Sound like a mortals words, or those of a god's? Just trying to fan the
flames a bit....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1336 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1338 of 6608 Reply
Godly problems mathis_ent
11/11/99 11:04 am
I am redoing the whole god & goddess pantheon of my world. I would like
any input from the group as possible
---
Message 1339 of 6608 Reply
Gods of Krynn (Was avatars and tiki) Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/11/99 12:10 pm
>>>"Mankinds affairs are my affairs." Said Astinus. "How not? I have lived
them, every one of them, for centuries."
Sound like a mortals words, or those of a god's? Just trying to fan the
flames a bit....<<<
I believe Astinuis is a special creation and not an Avatar. Gilean, having
come from another pantheon on another plane (not being born of Father
Chaos) had some experience with worlds before. As this great god of knowledge,
maybe he thought 'on other worlds, there are bits and pieces missing from
histories because the mortal races interpret these differently, maybe
if I create a special being who holds no allegiance of any kind, this
being will be able to acuratly record the history of mortals once and
for all.' For whatever reason, Gilean just wanted it all to be there accurately.
The thing is, Tracy Hickman nor Margaret Weis ever said Astinius was Gilean.
So while it is known that Fizban is Paladine and Dougan Redhammer is Reorx,
there is no real proof that Astinius is Gilean (other then speculation
by the readers). This is not to say that Astinius is not immortal or blessed
with a limited omnipotence. And while Fizban and Dougan may be considered
'Avatars' of their respective gods, I do not believe they are ever defined
in game terms either. So as far as Astinius being an Avatar, we don't
even know that these exist on Krynn.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1337 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1340 of 6608 Reply
Re: Gods of Krynn (Was avatars and tiki) atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 11/11/99 12:39 pm
If my memory serves me right only very few of the minor gods came from
other planes, such as the God of Disaese. I don't recall Gilean coming
from another realm.
Astinus actually does seem to have immortality(appearance during the cataclysm
and at the end of the world alternate future), however he has no omniscience
or omnipotence it seems. During the days of the Cataclysm in the Brother's
War he received a device from Fistandantilus/Raistlin that allowed him
to look anywhere on Krynn and anytime in the past. He was overjoyed because
this would finally allow him to account for the history of everything.
Before he recieved this device he used messangers, his monks I would assume
to gather information on the globe.
It has been awhile since I've read the Brother's War so I could be off
slightly...or a lot..
When I said avatar I was thinking more of a mortal that has been blessed
by a god...something to that effect.
-Atesh
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1339 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1341 of 6608 Reply
Seriousness: mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 11/11/99 8:57 pm
Hey gys, my players seem to be a bit less serious than id like. How can
i get them serious.
C.J
---
Message 1342 of 6608 Reply
Re: Seriousness: Katya_CrimsonHeart
(32/F/Kansas, USA) 11/11/99 9:08 pm
my personal suggestion, is take everything they take seriousy, and act
on it. If they were making a joke, doesn't matter. If they said it, there
character did it. After a few get hurt, etc, they'll wise up about what
they say and get a bit more serious.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1341 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1343 of 6608 Reply
Re: Gods of Krynn dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/12/99 12:45 am
In support of the theory of Astinus being a special creation. In the world
book of Ansalon it list all gods and Avatars, Fizban, and Dougan are listed
along with Takhisis' warrior, five headed dragon, and beautiful woman,
Astinus is not, and this book is a Dming tool so I think it would have
mentioned it. Plus at the begining are the "iconochronos of Astinus" in
this it speaks of Astinus as a historian and nothing more.
P.s. My pantheon is always under continuis construction so any new god
theories or ideas are much apreciated, just use my @yahoo.com acount thanks.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1339 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1344 of 6608 Reply
Re: Seriousness: dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/12/99 12:49 am
I agree, kill one and make him start over at level one(they don't call
the the "Dm from hell" for nothing). Either that or add your own comic
relief to take it away from them, throw in a Kender or crazy halfling,
i find with a looney out of control npc the players worry to much about
what he will do to act stupid themsleves.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1341 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1345 of 6608 Reply
Re: Seriousness: shinto_gaijin
11/12/99 3:27 am
In my opinion, a few things help for a Player to be serious about his
character ..
(1) he has to care about what happens to the PC
(2) he has to realize that if he plays well, barring a bunch of bad dice
rolls, his player will succeed
(3) he has to know that his character, despite his future plans, wants,
needs, and desires is not going to achieve them without hard work
(4) he has to realize that his character is mortal
.. in my opinion
.. s/g
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1341 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1346 of 6608 Reply
Re: Seriousness: Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/12/99 9:27 am
Everything that has been said so far is a pretty good idea, especially
the part about taking everything they say seriously.
Also, you might just want to tell you're players before a sessions that
its getting a little too silly and you're going to start taking actions
unless they start to straighten up.
Another note: In the DMG chapter on experience points, it goes over various
way to reward these. Before it even get's into the technical side (that's
the #XP/Level spells or 10/hit die of creatures defeated for fighters)
there's a little section on how to reward the players. Its a section called
fun, the very first chapter were it discusses why and why not to give
out exp. At the end of your sessions when you award exp (or whenever you
award exp), just go over and explain why you did various things. If they
were goofing during the adventure, deduct some story points. If they goofed
off the whole time deduct a lot more points. Then tell them why you did
this, tell them it's fun to sometimes goof around, but its getting ridiculus
and that's deterring from the gaming.
---
Message 1347 of 6608 Reply
Beginner DM looo_uk
(M/where ever you want.) 11/12/99 11:11 am
Greatings fellow DM's. I am a beginner in the field and would greatfull
for any ideas from you fellow DM's. If you can be of help please leave
a reply here or e-mail me at looo_uk@yahoo.co.uk or AP-OC@REBORN.COM
Thank you greatfully
and,
"DM's know best, so if your a player, you shoulden't be here"
---
Message 1348 of 6608 Reply
Re: Seriousness: Katya_CrimsonHeart
(32/F/Kansas, USA) 11/12/99 12:47 pm
This is a reply about the awarding of XP. I agree that experience points
can and should be awarded for those who enhance the enjoyment of the game
for others. But give them extra XP. Explaining why, is up to you. But
in my experiece, NEVER tell a party you are deducting XP, no matter what
the reason. Either award XP or don't award. But to subtract XP is not
good. (Or if your going to do it - do it secretly, so they don't know.
That is the choice I do).
There are only a few exceptions to this that I can think of. I had a new
player who was a cleric. I repeated told them that they needed to study
for spells, pray to their god, and perform their sacrifices (what and
how often determined by thier chosen god). After they had been given enough
prior warning, when they forgot to do their montly sacrifice, suddenly
they didn't get their spells when they prayed. (Although they didn't lose
XP, they weren't given any either). The reason was politely explained.
But the party was not happy that their cleric messed up and they didn't
have a healer until he corrected the problem. Needless to say, he learned
the hard way.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1346 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1349 of 6608 Reply
DM help Katya_CrimsonHeart
(32/F/Kansas, USA) 11/12/99 1:08 pm
To me, a DM needs to be both moderator and game manager. You mediate what
the players are doing to a point, and direct the game. It helps, if the
DM is prepared for the nights events ahead of time, so your not looking
mosters stats up, etc...(unless it is a random encounter). Makes the game
flow better. If you are able to give your players a choice of direction
to follow, they will feel more free with their characters, instead of
feeling like they are trapped on a one way train of the DM's choosing.
(Although, both options given the players, can both lead to your planned
adventure - but they don't know that).
One of the cute things we do also to help characters, since most people
tend to play the same type of character all the time, is randomly roll
on some 30 sided character charts I have. Gives them personality querks
(walks with a limp, sneezes when dragons are near, hates dwarves, etc).
Makes each character unique and gives you a little to work with as well.
(Two of my players had PC brothers, each was deaf in an opposite ear -
and they adventured to get enough gold to pay a high level cleric to "fix"
their problem for them). And, if possible, don't argue with the players.
DM's word is law. (My husband likes to call the DM the Games Operational
Director...more commonly know by his/her initials) :-) My only real problem,
is although you may discuss items with players (hopefully before or after
game time to not interuppt the game flow), and your decision is suppose
to be final...works well except for one thing...your spouse. If anyone
DM's and has their spouse as a PC, a discussion (ie. arguement) over rules,
etc is highly annoying and irritating. They are the ones more willing
to argue a certain point longer than anyone else. And its harder to be
firm, etc with them. (I'm married for the second time, and had problems
with both husbands. The first was worse.) My husband still isn't happy
with my theory on invisibilty because he can't get everything he wants.
He plays my way (he has too), but he argues about it all the time.
Other than that, all the other players are easier to deal with. Most are
happy if their charcters don't die and advance well.
---
Message 1350 of 6608 Reply
Re: Seriousness: Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/12/99 3:22 pm
Sorry, your right, deduct wasn't a good word to use. Rather, I give them
less points then the others. I usually don't give general story points
then divid by the number of characters in the story (as suggested in some
modules and such). Instead I decide about how much I want each player
character to have based on the general story line of the adventure and
the difficulty to overcome. I'll give more based on participation, role-play
and development (both player and character). If someone just sits in the
corner and the good role-players repeatedly ask them for their opinion
(in character) and they always reply 'I don't know what my character would
do' (out of character) then they will get less of a story award then I
planned.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1348 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1351 of 6608 Reply
Re: DM help Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/12/99 3:29 pm
I just wanted to say this again (and I've said it before, but its probably
the best advice I've ever been given):
1) Be prepared - Know your campaign world, know what lies ahead in the
campaign for the pcs, know the general outline for a session, anything
you can cram in there that you think may be needed.
2) Know that know matter how prepared you are, the players always tend
to do something unexpected
But, being of the being prepared is being ready for the unexpected too.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1349 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1352 of 6608 Reply
AD&D PBeM fool_sean
11/12/99 3:49 pm
DM Response to post two-times per week, Tuesday and Friday
Creat a 1st level character from any Non-players option source book.
- Use 80 points for Attributes
- purchase equipment with 200gp
- Need Mage, thief, Fighters, Priests, Psionicists, Bards, Paladins, Rangers,
Druids, etc. Special requests will be negotiated. Play what you WANT to
play for once.
email: f00lb0y@yahoo.com
Community being setup now @ http://beta.communities.msn.com/ADDPBeM&naventryid=106
---
Message 1353 of 6608 Reply
Re: DM help dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/12/99 3:57 pm
You know I have to agree with the hole DnD relationship thing, I'm not
married but one of my friends actually got a divorced because his character
slept with another female pc's character. Granted I do see the point but
I think it got blown out of proportion. Needless to day I now have a strict
rule aginst dating role-players.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1349 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1354 of 6608 Reply
Divorce?! SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 11/12/99 5:07 pm
I'd have thought the opposite, that a female gamer would
be more prepared to understand that your character gettin' it on with
another character is all in the game, whereas a non-gamer could really
misunderstand and get mad.
Though I think if something that trivial could cause problems that big,
there were probably other problems too. With trust and communication,
gamer/nongamer shouldn't matter.
But whatever works for you/makes you happy.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1353 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1355 of 6608 Reply
Re: Divorce?! dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/12/99 5:35 pm
Yeah actually they did have some trust issues. Other than that they were
great though. It was awful none of us could believe it.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1354 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1356 of 6608 Reply
Re: Seriousness: fendicaf
(33/M/Fitchburg MA) 11/12/99 7:42 pm
It's been mentioned before but I wanted to throw in my two copper pieces.
I adpoted a rule from my first DM, and have passed it on to others. WHAT
IS SAID AT THE GAMING TABLE, HAPPENS.
I have had PC groups traveling through unfamiliar territory singing songs
as they went because a couple of players said: "moving along, singing
a song". So much for stealth from that group. But the hardest lesson I
had to teach was when one bored player repeatedly made the coment that
he was sodimizing his horse (that is the "nice" way of phrasing what he
actually said). After the fourth time i told him that he had finally found
some release to his tensions at that his horse was no his best friend.
He thought this was comical and wanted to know if the offspring would
be a centaur. So along came a group of clerics(that were allready in my
plan for the adventure to begin with) that worshipped a nature deity.
They took extreme offense to his perverse act and punished him accordingly...
As for DM'ing with a spouse as a player... I do it all the time. My wife,
Dragn_Lady in here, is one of my better players. She also DM's and I play.
Each of us have a few rules that we interpret differently but have agreed
that the DM running the game rules!
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1350 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1357 of 6608 Reply
Re: Divorce?! Katya_CrimsonHeart
(32/F/Kansas, USA) 11/12/99 8:08 pm
I don't see a problem with dating or even married players. It's just when
one DM is the spouse, they have to understand that the usual partnership
no longer applies (at least to the game). That said, it isn't a problem.
But discussions will still always exist.
As to the couple that got divorced, they had to have had other problems
and were already doomed.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1355 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1358 of 6608 Reply
Little Help?? dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/13/99 9:12 am
Hey all I was sitting around thinking last night and I decided to generate
a new world. And I'm not talking about a raggedy rough of a world with
a few cities and kingdoms set up with a brief history and pantheon. I
am making a new indepth world, broken into continents, kingdoms, citys,
villages, businesses and npcs. I know this is ging to be a lot ot work
believe me I know, but i am tired of doing things bottom up. I have a
basic rough of the world so far but to be honest the names are kicking
my ass. As you all know after you name about 50 cities and a few hundred
npc's it becomes very difficult to come up with new ones. I find myself
sitting staring at my comp cussing totally blank for new name. If any
of you would be kind enough it would be much apreciated if you could drop
me a list or even just one or two original names, city or character. Thanks
---
Message 1359 of 6608 Reply
Little Help?? Response. whitedremic
11/13/99 9:48 am
dmfromhell,
I am a dungeon master of twenty-years. And I know from experience, that
the task you are about to take is not an easy one, but if done right,
a very worthwhile one. Twenty-years ago I created twelve planets, and
coming up with names were not easy. Your experience will most likely be
different than mine. I took an unpublished novel of mine and created a
AD&D galaxy with it, a place I call Carideth. Try this in finding names;
take all the three-letter words you can think of and write them down.
Then try combining a few of them together and see what you come up with.
Let Me know how that gos for you. Signed the Protector of Carideth, the
WhiteDremic, Smizz Standward.
---
Message 1360 of 6608 Reply
Re: Little Help?? Response. SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 11/13/99 11:37 am
I steal freely from place and people names in my organzization, the Society
for Creative Anachronism. (hence SCA Bard). They rename all of the places
in the world where they are with funky names...and we're in a lot of places.
Ex: The DC Metro area is the Barony of Storvik. Middlesex County in NJ
is the Canton of Griffenwald. The east coast from N Brunswick, Canada
to VA is the East Kingdom (OK, that name's boring, but we also have the
kingdoms of Drachenwald, Trimaris, et al)
The organization's web address is: http://www.sca.org
There should be links to the kingdom web sites, and each kingdom should
list its shires, baronies, royal forests, cantons, colleges, keeps, etc
etc.
Check out the Rolls Etheral for Scadians online...then steal their persona
names if you like them.
In Service to the Dream,
SCA Bard
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1359 by whitedremic
---
Message 1361 of 6608 Reply
Re: Little Help?? brutish_celt
11/13/99 12:22 pm
No prob! Always willing to help a fellow DM!
I've got a few names that hit me when I was making adventures and whotnot:
*Artoxx Navomarr
*Draegaus Carceri
*Xavzeranx Xalx
*Ahltodd
*Banverem
*Baltrik
The list goes on, but I recommend that you check out Irony Games, NetRPG,
and TuDragons for utilities both online and downloadable that will generate
names like there was no tommorrow. I would like to reccommend, in particular,
a program called the "Everchanging Book of Names". It'll give you Arthurian,
Latin, Norse, Welsh, Tolkein, Orcish, etc. All of its names are generated
from a library of name parts that it splices together. Definitely worth
a look!
Hope I could be a help, and good luck with the new world!
p.s. When it comes to world creation, I reccommend looking into TSR's
"World Builder's Guidebook".
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1358 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1362 of 6608 Reply
Thanks guys!! dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/13/99 1:28 pm
Hey I wanna thank all you guys who responded so quick. I only posted a
few hours ago and already their are several responces. Much apreciated.
I got the "Ever changing book of names" it is awesome to say the least,
thanks. If any one out there and I'm sure it is alot of you. You need
this progam. It's at TuDragons like he said. Thanks again everyone.
---
Message 1363 of 6608 Reply
Re: Little Help?? Response. Katya_CrimsonHeart
(32/F/Kansas, USA) 11/13/99 3:07 pm
Borrowing the SCA place names is one thing.
I personally would take offiense if my SCA name or my household ended
up in a game somewhere. After all, it is me. So please be considerate,
and change the names. You'd do just as good creating them from history
as we have done.
Lady Ekatarina (Katya) Tatiana de Leon
House Fletcha de Leon
Barony of V'tavia, Kingdom of Calontir
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1360 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1364 of 6608 Reply
Msg for SCA Bard Katya_CrimsonHeart
(32/F/Kansas, USA) 11/13/99 3:16 pm
I don't think telling someone to steal our SCA names is in service to
the dream. I've been in the society for over 15 years and havn't met anyone
who would fully agree to having their names and/or personas stolen for
any purpose. (That's why we have a registry within the SCA to stop just
such a purpose). We have worked hard on becoming who we are. Next time,
think twice about the rest of us, before blowing your mouth off. You do
NOT speak for all of us. Therefore, do not speak for us as if you did.
You may not have intended harm when you posted your message, but I certainly
take offense to it just the same at your suggestion. And I would have
emailed this to you persoanlly, if you'd bother to list your email in
your profile. As you didn't - it got posted here.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1360 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1365 of 6608 Reply
Re: Msg for SCA Bard SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 11/13/99 6:06 pm
My apologies...I did not think that a name borrowed for a private game
would cause anyone pain. I was rather thinking it to be like using a phone
book as inspiration for modern names.
I am similarly sorry if I somehow implied that I spoke for the SCA Inc
and/or any of its members. My posts are strictly my own opinions and are
not intended to reflect anything but.
For my part, if it brings you joy and happiness to use the name Teleri
Barod in any way, so long as it is a private endeavor, not for publication
or profit, you are welcome to it. Teleri is a female Welsh name, and Barod
is a loose translation of the English "the Well-Prepared".
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1364 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1366 of 6608 Reply
Re: Msg for SCA Bard Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/13/99 9:29 pm
Hey, if you guys are going to fight, can I watch?
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1365 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1367 of 6608 Reply
Carideth Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 11/13/99 11:35 pm
whitedremic,
Is Carideth open to any adventurers? Or is there a site I (we) can take
a look at? [It sounds like fun - i'd like to check it out.]
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1359 by whitedremic
---
Message 1368 of 6608 Reply
Re: Msg for SCA Bard Sir_Bluetooth
(19/M/Kearney, NE) 11/14/99 12:15 am
What is in a name? Would not a rose by any other name smell as sweet?
(and no, I dont have the original memorized, so yes it is not a correct
quote...)
I dont see how people from the SCA, a group of people that borrow everything:
a culture, naming conventions, and in some cases names themselves. If
someone used your name for insporation, or even as a name, it would not
be as bad as what several SCA members have done. Granted it is not 'accepted'
but many have taken names from the past.
I would also not garentee any of your names have not been someone's before,
as most SCA persona's are based on naming conventions that were used and
parts of names that were common.
If the SCA can steal an entire culture (several acctually) and claim ownership
on it, then I dont see it as too terrible for someone to borrow some names
for a personal private game.
I dont mean to offend anyone in the SCA. But when an organization that
is for fun and recreation, and a game come into contact, people should
not take either's offences personaly.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1364 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1369 of 6608 Reply
Re: Msg for SCA Bard Katya_CrimsonHeart
(32/F/Kansas, USA) 11/14/99 2:52 am
Obviously you don't understand, and are not a member of our society. (Or
if you are, you should know). Taking names from history is NOT ALLOWED.
And as we recreate history, obviously we are recreating culture that existed.
But we are not allowed to take personas or names of anyone who really
existed, even if you can prove you are related. Our names are based on
names that existed at that time, and naming practices that were used,
but put together in new combinations (that didn't exist). We create our
own personal history to go along with it (i.e. our country and time period
of origion, etc.) Once this process is completed, our names are registered
within the society, as well as your coat of arms. They check to make sure
that no-one in history had this name, that no-one else in the society
had this name, and that it follows period naming practices. Same goes
for registering coat of arms. I've taken ten years to complete the persona
that I am happy with. So yes, I would be offended to see the name used
by others, regardless of the purpose. Just as if it was my own civilian
legal name. And the SCA does not take "ownership" of any of this. We simply
regulate our society and organization. A if a few "bad" people have violated
a few rules doesn't mean that others should freely be allowed to do so
also.
** Now, enough is enough. Those of us who understand what is going on,
know that stealing names or anything isn't nice, even if it is commonly
done. And that is the real point. Wether its done or not does not mean
we have to approve of it. I think this thread should die here and not
be rehashed by anyone else in this club. Anyone who wants to argue this
with me, can email me privately. (see profile for email addy). Personally,
I'm sick of the fact that I have to defend this to people who simply don't
understand.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1368 by Sir_Bluetooth
---
Message 1370 of 6608 Reply
Re: Msg for SCA Bard Sir_Bluetooth
(19/M/Kearney, NE) 11/14/99 9:45 am
Obviously YOU don't understand.
What right do you have to say no one can ever use the name you came up
with? You cannot even be totally certain that no one has ever had your
name before, because I am sure that the SCA's records do not have the
name listed of every peasant and noble that ever existed. Some poor farmer
could be turning in his grave because of the "mis use" of his name.
We dont even have leagle rights over our civilian names to keep people
from naming other people and things after us, much less a name that is
registered only with a private organization.
I dont think that STEALING names is nice, but using them for insperation,
and if he is in need borrowing a few parts, is no worse than what the
SCA has done in using an other culture for the same insperation and name
parts.
Personally, I dont care to much aout the thread, as if he is going to
steal names or use them for insperation there is nothing here we can do
to alter that. I am just sick of the fact that some people will END a
thread, saying that it should die, immediately AFTER their own argumentitive
post on it. I have no problem letting an argument die. But I guess sence
your post says I dont understad what is going on (twice) I really should
be allowed to reply saying I do know what is going on. The only problem
with understanding is that I understand the other side.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1369 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1371 of 6608 Reply
Kill it Katya_CrimsonHeart
(32/F/Kansas, USA) 11/14/99 12:43 pm
Obviously you don't understand the word of let this die. I've already
spoken to who the origional message was intended for and he understands.
I'm just now trying to get the rest of you to DROP IT!!
I PERSONALLY WILL ONLY RESPONSE TO ANY MORE INQUIRIES ABOUT THIS VIA EMAIL!!!!!!!!!!!
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1370 by Sir_Bluetooth
---
Message 1372 of 6608 Reply
Wow Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/14/99 3:38 pm
Lots of messages, I need to log on more over weekends.
I just wanted to add a couple of thoughts on the divorce/married/relationship
thing. Its sad to have situations arrise out of someone taking a game
out of context. But like everyone said, those situations seem to arrise
out of troubled relationships to begin with. Most people in good relationships
who game together might argue every now and again, but nothing out of
context. I knew a married couple who would sometimes bring their arguements
into the game. Especially into the board games, like diplomacy, risk,
civilization and history of the world. One member of the couple usually
became upset because the other one took advantage of a game situation.
The offended member might even feel more cheated because they had been
arguing earlier in the day. The rest of the players then usually try to
help fix the situation and that tends to make it worse because they usually
support the one because they were playing in the context of the rules
and this offends the offended member even more. Its usually a bad situation
to be around.
What we usually did in these situations was take a time out from the game
itself and do something else. Go out for food, watch a movie, anything
not involving the game, play nerf gun wars in the dark - just make sure
the couple is on the same team when you play this. Sometimes we got back
to play the game, other times we just ended the game early that night
and picked up next week. The couple are still together and have a child
on the way :), so they do have some issues but were good enough to not
take it too far out of context.
---
Message 1373 of 6608 Reply
SCA Eoganachta
(34/M/Burbank, CA) 11/14/99 3:52 pm
This whole thing is so stupid. That is a made up society and this is a
made up game. don't take it so seriously Katya, get a life....
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1369 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1374 of 6608 Reply
Re: Kill it Sir_Bluetooth
(19/M/Kearney, NE) 11/14/99 4:15 pm
"And I would have emailed this to you persoanlly, if you'd bother to list
your email in your profile. As you didn't - it got posted here."
Katya
I do understand what let this die means, but apperently you missed what
I was trying to say. What will happen or not happen with the names cannot
be changed here by bickering with the origional posters. To keep other
people from stealing names we need to do one of two things, offer sugestions
(like using the name practices or parts of names), or remove them from
the web.
I do understand why you would not want someone to steal the persona you
have gone to alot of work to make, but it does happen, and I would wager
that there is more than one person who may read the origional messages
that might consider checking out the SCA pages for names.
When you put somehting on the web you run the risk of having it stolen.
And making sure one person does not do it does not stop others.
To everyone else-
Sorry for putting my message to Kayta here, but her e-mail addy is not
on her profile. And I promse I will not post annother message on that
topic again. I do respect that many may not want to read them.
This may be a good topic for the group to discuss, how do we keep people
from stealing our DMing ideas off the net (if we put them on), or does
anyone care if most of their DMing info that is on the web is used by
others?
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1371 by Katya_CrimsonHeart
---
Message 1375 of 6608 Reply
ideas are not allowed?? wolflaughing
(34/M/miami,fla.) 11/14/99 11:52 pm
hmm i joined this club to get ideas for campaigns and compare tips about
dming. the idea that one persons ideas for gaming or anothers scenario
are not allowed to be used by others is ridiculous it smacks of fascism
and censorship.which those of us who are or were members in SCA have never
heard of as doctrine
---
Message 1376 of 6608 Reply
and now .. shinto_gaijin
(27/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/15/99 12:45 am
for something completely different ..
I came across this article on the web ..
http://www.slate.com/Assessment/99-11-12/Assessment.asp
.. it actually compares the Pokemon craze with D&D, not a terribly far
fetch, but to call the little bastards "a genius version of rock paper
scissors" or "an intellectually challenging game" kinda ruffled my feathers
---
Message 1377 of 6608 Reply
Re: ideas are not allowed?? Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/15/99 1:26 am
Whoever said games were supposed to be fun? And another thing, what the
hell is an SCA? Also, what makes it so damned important that no one is
allowed to use any of the names in it? Ive never heard of it before. Obviously
it is some sort of religon or something, from the way some people are
fighting about it, and werent we supposed to not discuss religon in here?
Someone should fuill me in before i inadvertantly steal someones name
from this "Registry" and I wouldnt want anyone mad at me, would I?
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1375 by wolflaughing
---
Message 1378 of 6608 Reply
What the * is and SCA? SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 11/15/99 9:27 am
The SCA is the Society for Creative Anachronism, a medieval re-creation
group founded in California over 30 years ago. It has since spread across
the USA and even overseas.
The organization's web site is http://www.sca.org which will provide any
details for the interested with which I will not bore the non-interested.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1377 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1379 of 6608 Reply
All this talk of ideas Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/15/99 9:51 am
I agree with wolflaughing. In fact, the reason most of us (at least myself)
put dming things on the web is to share. That's one of the earliest concepts
we learn as children. We also learn that when we don't want to share,
we don't show our toys to our friends. I'd even venture to say that putting
personal DM'ing information on the web and then asking people not to use
it is a touch on the side of bragging ("Look what I did and you didn't").
And when it comes to inspiration for campaigns (at least mine), I know
I take 'inspiration' from a lot of various elements - books, movies, music,
real life, history, anything that will help me to make the game more enjoyable
for my playes. Heck, a lot of our handles are inspired from something
else. Lotherio is from Lothario and Giacomo was the character in an Italian
movie who was very much a Lothario (not that I am in real life). I usually
don't take too many names though, I like to make those up myself (in the
game, my handle has nothing to do with my game).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1374 by Sir_Bluetooth
---
Message 1380 of 6608 Reply
Re: Tiki warning Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/15/99 11:34 am
Well, it's almost what I wanted but my campaign needs a Moonblade to be
inherited by a human who was adopted by Dwarves, I think he might actually
be decended from a half-elf but not necierrilly, it also needs a way for
moonblades to get from the Realms to the other worlds mentioned.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1327 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1381 of 6608 Reply
Re: Gods of Krynn (Was avatars and tiki) Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/15/99 11:42 am
I have to stress the point, Fizban was Paladine's Avatar on Krynn, you've
just said he isn't.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1339 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1382 of 6608 Reply
Re: Gods of Krynn (Was avatars and tiki) dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/15/99 11:47 am
You really need to reread the post you replied to he was very clear that
Fizban was paladines Avatar.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1381 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1383 of 6608 Reply
Re: Carideth whitedremic
11/15/99 11:49 am
Carideth is not a site yet. though I am attempting to create a site for
that. I was referring to the act of Dungeon Mastering. I am creating a
club called the Guild of Carideth, where some form of gaming could happen
with or without me. And I will post Writtings on ideas open for discussions.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1367 by Eoganachta
---
Message 1384 of 6608 Reply
Re: AD&D PBeM Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/15/99 11:50 am
I've got a character, a ninth level cleric from the first editon orginal
set of rules, in that set a priest was defined as a third level cleric,
in another set it is actually defined as ninth level cleric.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1352 by fool_sean
---
Message 1385 of 6608 Reply
Re: Little Help?? Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/15/99 12:04 pm
I've got sevral (some borrowed, some invented)
First there's Splode, Andros-Mecury, Ankh-Morpok, Agatean Empire, Counterweight
Contient, Ageatean Empire (where my OA campaigns are set), Klacht, Al
Kahli and Llamados (the orginal was distinctly druidic and very much like
prehistoric wales, but it rained more).
Klacht, in my campaigns is both the name of a country and a contient and
Ankh-Morpork is a city state. Try borrowing other names from noted British
authors, the names above which I didn't invent were borrowed from Terry
Prachett.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1358 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1386 of 6608 Reply
Re: Kill it Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/15/99 12:34 pm
I'm more into the whole, ask others for ideas for unique traits for your
game world. Also at the moment I'm trying to make a map of the Ageatean/Agatean
Empire, the two are really the same place. All I have managed to establish
so far is that the capital is Hung-Hung and the major sea-port is Bes
Pilargic. I also have a comprehensive history for the Grand Visor, Twoflower.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1374 by Sir_Bluetooth
---
Message 1387 of 6608 Reply
Hey, adventures, download... Corpheous
(17/M/NY) 11/16/99 7:06 am
My page of adventures:
http://www.homestead.com/dungeonsNdragons
I demand you vote for your favorite class as well.
I PLEAD however for you to join AllAdvantage if you download lots of stuff
through my link. I get paid, you get paid, we all get paid!
Also, join my club, download pics, have fun, post, brag, rant, rave, lose
your mind, talk aimlessly, visit my web page, listen to subliminal suggestions,
whatever...
-Corpheous - DM
---
Message 1388 of 6608 Reply
Hah! Fynduril_Skyrunner
(20/M/Pennsylvania) 11/17/99 8:33 am
HAH! I'm baaaaa-aaack! I doubt any of you remember me, btu I'm back after
one hell of a long hiatus. Good to be back, I'll be sure to stop in daily
for any new posts and to see what I may add.
~Kemo
---
Message 1389 of 6608 Reply
Re: Hah! Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/17/99 11:35 am
No I do'nt remember you, but if you could help me with my problem it would
be very appriciated.
On a basic level I need to site 7 libaries in Krynn, this is apart from
any major libaries there, but I don't know the geography well enough,
this is for a future plot device in the campaign where I am DMing Shinto_Gaijin.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1388 by Fynduril_Skyrunner
---
Message 1390 of 6608 Reply
SPAM steam34
(34/M/Berwyn, IL) 11/17/99 12:28 pm
Looks like Corpheous is doing some advertising...
---
Message 1391 of 6608 Reply
Re: Little Help?? atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 11/17/99 2:45 pm
My recommendation is get a dictionary on a slightly uncommon language.
I use Turkish and Japanese dictionaries to find new words. My handle Atesh
is actually spelled Ates in Turkish, and means fire. Inside joke with
my friends. And in Turkish many letters are pronounced different than
in English so if you tried to read it outloud you would probaly change
the pronounciation. Great thing...
-Atesh
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1361 by brutish_celt
---
Message 1392 of 6608 Reply
Re: Hah! atesh42
(17/M/Norman, OK) 11/17/99 2:59 pm
Well...I'm guessing that you're doing present-time Krynn or Before the
War of the Lance..which includes very few libraries(when almost all the
info on the world is in one library, they don't seem to need more)
Tarsis, the ex-port city. Library is buried under rubble though.
Palastine I guess is too major...
Mt. Nevermind, the Gnome's home.
I should imagine that the Elves would have their own libraries(whole racist
thing), except for Kagonesti(hmm..I think I spelled that right..the wild
elves)
Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head..
-Atesh
"Yeah, I remember the days with my aunt and uncle, on the farm...until
one day I was tracking down some droids.."
"Wait a minute! That's from Star Wars!"
"Look, I go to work and the video store, that's my life!"
-Working
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1389 by Beard_Y
---
Message 1393 of 6608 Reply
Re: Hah! Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/18/99 9:45 am
I just thought I'd finally add two cents to this whole conversation about
libraries on Krynn. Its a war wracked world that was torn apart by the
gods in recent history (350 years ago). Aside from the one mentioned above,
another good location would be Istar/Blood Sea. Its library could be in
one of the air pockets and attended to by the sea elves. Another location
would probably be in the Tower at Wayreth, I'm sure the mages have a good
collection of their own books there. Other locations would also be on
the other continent, Talades. The minotaur league would probably have
one great library in their capital. There's some good creepy ruins in
the south east portion of the continent(thick swampy rain forests), supposedly
the ruins are abandoned because of the mind flayer infestation. The gnomes
on this continent are, in fact, skillfull at what gnomes do. The only
thing keeping them from doing anything is there constant wars agains creatures
coming in from the elemental plane of fire.
Just some thoughts
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1392 by atesh42
---
Message 1394 of 6608 Reply
Re: Hah! Fynduril_Skyrunner
(20/M/Pennsylvania) 11/18/99 2:32 pm
Tower of Wayreth
Raistlin's Tower in Palanthas
Qualinesti
Silvanesti
Astinus' Library in Palanthas
Dimernesti, at the bottom of the Blood Sea
High Clerist's Tower
Mt. Nevermind
Dargaard Keep
Xak Tsaroth
Pax Tharkas
The Ruins
Those are the only places I can think f on or near to Ansalon that may
have a substantial library. Sorry if it's not enough, but since the world
has been constantly ravaged, I doubt there are a lot of collections of
books.
~Kemo
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1393 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1395 of 6608 Reply
A Question Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 11/19/99 6:06 am
Okay~
Fellow DMs, do you think it is fair to give out In Game rewards for the
actions of the players Out of Game?
I'm toying with the idea as an incentive to get my players to pay closer
attention in my PBeM, and to visit the Yahoo! Club with all the OOC info
on it. A lot of them aren't bothering to check it out, aren't getting
into the depths of their characters, you know the basic newbie player
stuff.
Anyway, do you think it's a fair incentive to motivate my players? The
rewards are small BTW, nothing really big or important.
~Kemo
---
Message 1396 of 6608 Reply
Re: A Question dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/19/99 6:49 am
Personaly i wouldn't do it. I'm real big on self motivated players and
excomunicate people who don't show what i feel to be the proper devotion
to the game. But if the rewards are only small ones and you feel it is
necessary i don't see the harm in it myself. But i wouldn't make it a
habit or they might start to expect you to reward them for thing they
do in real life all the time.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1395 by Fynduril_Skyrunner
---
Message 1397 of 6608 Reply
Re: A Question shinto_gaijin
(27/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/19/99 9:15 am
I think the rewards should be the knowledge that outside information provides.
Have the background info for your next adventure be posted, instead of
briefed, and drop the characters right smack in the middle of the problem.
If they didn't prepare for the adventure (as you warned them to do) it
should be very difficult for them to succeed. I don't mean kill their
PC's (at least not the first time), but (in this order):
(1) humiliate them (make it painfully aware that if they had prepared,
they would have known about the secret door that bypasses the magically
cursed passage that removes all hair or turns all non-magical metal to
wood or something similarly clever)
(2) take away their toys (steal magic items, spell books, treasure maps,
whatever they value most, and then post clues to recover them)
(3) reduce them in level (Energy Draining monsters tend to get players'
attention)
Then, if they still aren't paying attention, kill one or two.
None of these lessons mean anything unless the information that would
have saved them this trouble is posted at the sources you mention.
The info should not be straightforward, a riddle or cryptic clue should
be plenty, but it should be enough to get their attention and spark their
interest.
Most experienced players required a few sessions of "hack and slash" gaming
before they realized the true fun and satisfaction of role playing. Heck,
it probably took me a couple of years.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1396 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1398 of 6608 Reply
Re: A Question the_mood_dragon
(28/F/Krynn) 11/19/99 2:20 pm
hmm...I agree with most, I think, in that players should not be given
too many "out o game" rewards. Preperation is nice and shows that a player
has enough respect for his character and gaming in general to develop
characters and make them "realistically" playable. By doing character
development, the player will find hat his reactions and actions in the
game will reap rewards...that, generally, acts a good incentive for players
to put forth that effort. Players who don't even try shouldn't be playing!!
-The Mood Dragon
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1397 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1399 of 6608 Reply
Re: A Question dragn_lady
(33/F/Fitchburg, MA) 11/19/99 5:55 pm
I agree with shinto. Rewards are nice, but if they don't pay attention,
WAKE THEM UP. That alone can work wonders....been there, as they say.
DL
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1397 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1400 of 6608 Reply
Re: A Question Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 11/19/99 6:16 pm
Okay~
I run two DragonLance PBeMs at the moment, and one of them is doing incredibly
well, while the other is doing...well, shitty is a kind word. I've put
a lot of work into both, as all good DMs do, and I just can't seem to
get the second one (not yours Rast, the other one) to flow well do to
incredibly inept players for the most part.
I'm about to clean house on that game, but I still don't know if that
will be enough to "wake up" the players.
Well, the form I'm considering taking is a an OOC question about one of
the games posted on my Club message board each week. It will be about
something happening, or something important that has already happened
in one of those two games. The first person that answers it 100% correctly
would win. I don't know what the rewards would be yet, but I do know it
would be a -very- small one.
I don't know if I want to do this or not. I've been a DM for almost 11
years now. Admittedly the first three were crappy years, but hey I was
only like 11-13. But I take pride in the types of games I run, and I've
never gotten a complaint since I was 15 or so. I'm running out of ideas
to motivate my players to pay attention and run their characters with
some originality.
I've thought about the traps, the little things. I'v done some of them
too, but they just don't catch on...that's why this is really my last
resort.
~Kemo
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1399 by dragn_lady
---
Message 1401 of 6619 Reply
Just rewards? steam34
(34/M/Berwyn, IL) 11/20/99 11:20 am
After reading your varying replies to this issue it really seems that
your egos are out of whack. Should the players stand and give a big round
of applause to you for designing a challenging game? You also forget that
many people can't spend their day on-line and when the do get on it's
for their enjoyment. Playing a character is less of a task then running
the game but thats what they choose to do. You all have taken the responsibility
of designing and running a game. To reward and punish people for not appreciating
your work is bullshit. I think you should get of those war horses of yours
and be glad anyone would want to be in your games at all.
---
Message 1402 of 6619 Reply
Re: Just rewards? dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/20/99 12:04 pm
This guy is full of himself, with out us Dm's there is no game. I don't
want to be applauded for a good dungeon but I know damn well I'm not gonna
be thankful to players for wanting to play in my campaign. Their is a
swore lack of good Dm's out their and being one of them, like I said,
i don't want applause but I would like the to be treated with the respect
due to the work that I put into my campaign, which means mostly that the
players take the game seriously and are willing to devote the few minuites
it takes to log on and post, versus the hours of map making and development
I put in.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1401 by steam34
---
Message 1403 of 6619 Reply
Re: Just rewards? brutish_celt
(19/M/Harrison, AR) 11/20/99 6:03 pm
Right on! Although I'm the first to admit that I've got an ego the size
of Montana, I still think that we DMs should get a little respect from
the players due to all of the hard work and hours we spend trying to create
an enjoyable, stimulating environment for them to participate in. I'm
not saying that I get all bitchy if they don't compliment my work, but
I don't hesitate to make their (characters') lives a living hell if they
start nit-picking my game. All I'm asking for is a 'good game' every once
in a while, or even 'hey man, this is totally cool!'. And I feel fully
justified in slipping the player a few extra gold or experience if they're
setting a good example for the other players. Basically, if some ding-bob
doesn't like the way we DMs do things, then he can just go get one of
those "Super Endless Quests" books, if he can even find them. I'm sure
the rigid plot structure and predictability would be to his liking.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1402 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1404 of 6619 Reply
Re: Rewards Zersch
(26/M/Cape Cod, Ma) 11/20/99 6:27 pm
To Fyn, do whatever you have to do that you feel is right. You have put
a significant amount of time into the PBeM's design, if exp OOC is what
seems right go with that. (Although, the little tortures mentioned do
sound fun too) Steam, have to agree and disagree with you. If a DM has
that tight a grip on their game, they could strangle the fun right of
it for everyone, and not even know it. Also, if the player doesn't have
much time to spend online, reading many paragraphs can be a bit of a hassle.
Although, if you have not spent a large chunck of time designing something
of deep complexity, then you might not totally understand. It's no fun
to have players say, "Yeah, whatever" to your designed Ragnarock. True,
no blood, sweat or tears are poured into these, but time and imagination,
especially from those who pride themselves on their imagination and creativity,
is not something to be balked at.
---
Message 1405 of 6619 Reply
Re: Rewards Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/20/99 11:23 pm
I have to say I don't run any on-line games or play by email games, just
straight tabletop gaming (Our biggest leap forward has been the recent
addition of the Core Rules 2.0, I'm now wondering how i ever got on without
it...)Anyway, I wanted to give my thoughts on experience points...
1. ALWAYS reward good roleplaying. This is an easy one to look for. Ive
been lucky to be playing with the same group for pretty much 5 years now
(with a few changes) so these guys know how to handle their characters.
I also pay close attention to alignment, so if those NE thieves are pissing
everyone off by stealing all the treasure, they get roleplaying bonuses.
2. In my campaign, I ALWAYS have a way out. Sometimes it's really hard
to find, but it's always there. This is to promote the pc's involvement
in the game. If they can come up with a good way to solve a problem, then
they get the bonus. There is always the OPTION of fighting your way through
something, but my smart monsters use battle tactics and will wear you
down in the process.
3. He who helps the dm....I feel to some extent it falls on the shoulders
of the players to help getting people involved. Of course Ill do my part
also, but there's only so much can be done before you start "babying"
the players. He who helps get everyone involved in the adventure deserves
a nice xp bonus, in my books.
If your having problems keeping people involved in a game, it could be
that your sense of drama is a little off. It could be something as simple
as lack of description, or the players could just not understand the full
situation. On the other hand, they could be slacking off (its a game,
its ok to fuck around to some extent) but if you find that it's interfering
with the game then the best trick I found was to eliminate "gamespeak"
from the table. Everything uttered by the characters and every gesture
they make is played out in the game. This gets them back to the task at
hand very fast because all of the sudden theyre smart mouths are starting
fights with every bully and town guard they encounter. Another thing i
found that can be effective in keeping the players attention (when they
start to screw around its because theyve lost their attention to the game)
is the occasional random encounter. Not usually fatal, it does give em
a chance to throw bones and kick some ass. Remember, its a dangerous world
out there, something we can use to our full advantage.
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1404 by Zersch
---
Message 1406 of 6619 Reply
New pbem looking for players dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/21/99 2:03 pm
Hey all I am a long time Dm with lots of experience cyber Dming. I
have just decided that I have enough time for one more Pbem...er
message board. I say "er message board" because I will take a poll
with the group chosen and if they prefer a message board we'll do that
instead of cluttering up your mailbox. I'll leave that up to the
players, majority rules.
I am looking for quality characters, this does not mean characters
with a twenty page history, although that is possible. If you are not
willing to put both time and effort into character creation and
development please do not apply. I need real role players with drive,
imagination, and time to post a minimum of every other day. If you are
slowing down the game by not posting I will not hesitate to
excomunicate you. I need loyal players because I have every intention
of running this campaign until I die of old age. This is a home brew
world that has been in development for about ten years now, so it is
pretty well developed. If you are interested please email the " dmfromhell@yahoo.com
" saying so
and I will send you my character sheet of preference. All races(within
reason), classes, kits, allignments welcome. All characters will begin
with 20,000 exp or a magic item of equal exp value, the history should
reflect this, if that is done by saying that he/she served in the
kings army for ten years than that is all it takes it's up to you it's
your character. Same with stats, whether you roll them or b/s them up
it's all the same to me, but I will tell you that if you have all 18's
your character will get dumped and you will recieve a polite letter of
decline. All characters will have 500 gold to buy begining items with
any left over may be converted into gems or such for the player to
maintain. I will be excepting submissions for an undetermined amount
of time. Ie. if this post is still up I am still excepting. So please
don't ask if I am still excepting. Hope to hear from you soon.
---
Message 1407 of 6619 Reply
a new beginning tenthstop
11/21/99 10:46 pm
I've been a DM for a short time. I'm wanting to run a campaign in Forgotten
Realms using the Cult of the Dragon source book, but I could use some
help getting started. I don't want to use the same ole "you meet in the
local tavern" beginning. Has anyone used this or run a similar campaign?
---
Message 1408 of 6619 Reply
Re: a new beginning Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 11/22/99 1:48 am
At one point I had started a campaign where the pc's were ZERO LEVEL characters.
basically they were from the same area in a small farming community with
no skills really to speak of. I gave them their int bonus for proficiencies
that they could pick and I let them pick a profession from the list in
the players handbook. I also gave them 1d10 gp to start to buy what they
wanted with. 20 thaco, 1d8 hp. At first they were mortified. They were
allowed 1 weapon proficiency of their choice. This was an excellent way
to start the campaign because they were totally dependant on each other.
When they did start going up in levels, they had developed a history (of
thwarting the town bullies and killing a few orcs) and it also gave them
a place to go later when they wanted a break, or heal up, or whatever.
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1407 by tenthstop
---
Message 1409 of 6619 Reply
Exp Rewards Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/22/99 12:27 pm
I know it may be a little late, but I wanted to add my two cents to this
topic (rewarding exp for ooc actions).
In the experience section in the DMG, they point out quite a few areas
to award exp for ooc actions. The very first section the talk about is
Fun, like did they role play? did they get others to participate? or was
the player disruptice to the game? Obviously the first two get more exp
rewards then the last one.
Then it asks if their character contributed. Did the character survice?
Acting intelligently? Hiding behind other party members? Pure luck? Again,
the first two would get more of a reward then the second two.
Then there is a section about how the player grew in regards to the game.
Is the player learning the system? Getting better at their rp? Overal
learning more about the game and role-playing itself?
Then it goes into story awards and the mechanical xp (monsters, mage/priest
spells, thief abilities, general technical stuff with which to award player's
characters for things it (she/he) would normally learn from).
So, yes, players should be rewarded for OOC actions. It's a game they
should be playing, not completely reflected by their player character
and his or her actions. I mean, if I played monopoly with someone who
laughed rather mockingly at me everytime I landed on his boardwalk with
hotels, I would stop playing with him eventually. Its the DM's job to
interpret also who is playing the game correctly.
In regards to the actual question that was asked, I think the players
who do go to the club and check out the ooc info you provide should be
rewarded (they are learning how to play your game). I also agree with
some of the suggestions for making the players who didn't read it pay
(i.e. making some info needed or required info to make it through the
session - but don't outright kill player's characters because the player
didn't go.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1405 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1410 of 6619 Reply
DM'ing in General Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/22/99 4:15 pm
Sorry about some of my grammar in that last post, I rushed it out.
On to the actual content, some of the recent topics got my mind spinning
a little. Some people have recently said (just basically, not word for
word) that DM's are the Law of their gaming group and the players should
either like it or leave when it comes to what the DM says. Of course,
this was mostly in reference to on-line gaming but I figure, what the
hey, it could make a good discussion in general and may come up at our
table top groups.
I just wanted to know what everyone thought the DM's position should be
within the gaming group?
Personally, I see the DM (myself) like a referee for a sporting event.
They don't make up all the rules, they only interpret what transpires
during the course of a game (session). Of course, most sports have organizations
that decide which rules to apply during their sporting events. I think
this would be all the members of the gaming group (before one becomes
a DM and the others become players).
A few people mentioned that they (as DMs) should get a little due respect
for the work they have put into it and I believe the only people who will
give them that respect are other DM's. As far as players our concerned,
a just reward from them is to have them enjoy the game. If they have fun
during a session, whether or not they noticed all the work you've put
into the ecology of your world, then you know you've done a good job.
Likewise, if they get bored, then we should know we've done a bad job
and need to work on it to make it interesting.
When groups come together, one person decides to be the Dungeon Master
(or we join a group with an existing Dungeon Master). Usually they have
an idea for their campaign and what might be exciting. However, sometimes
they can't handle the preparation it takes to keep an ongoing campaign
running, then the mantle is passed onto another player who has an idea
for a campaign. And so forth until someone good picks up the ball and
gets it moving and really enjoys it (and prepares ahead of time), more
so then being a player. Most of us have started off as players and generally
have found the games not being run to our liking, that is until we picked
up the load of work as Dungeon Master and made it better. While it would
be nice for a player to say 'Wow, you've put a lot of work into this,
I've never seen this much detail in a campaign', the best reward as a
Dungeon Master (since the players don't award us with experience and gold
and magical items) is that the group is staying together and we can get
together once (or more times) a week and have fun playing a game we enjoy.
---
Message 1411 of 6619 Reply
Re: DM'ing in General _OldWolf_
(30/M/Juneau, AK) 11/23/99 12:19 am
well said!
As a Dm, I have never expected to recieve praise from my players on all
the work I have put into a paticular campaign. To me if everyone had fun
during the session it is worth all the effort. On thing I do do and find
useful is after every gaming session I ask the players for feedback and
I also give feedback to them. For example if one of the players happened
to think that his/her character didnt do enough ( was bored ) then the
group will discuss what the player and the DM (me) can do to change that,
or if someone has a problem with useing OOC info ( which seems to happen
alot with a couple of my players any suggestions on how to control this??
) i will at that time try to explain that what they know and what thier
character knows is not always the same thing.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1410 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1412 of 6619 Reply
DragonLAnce PBeM Players Wanted Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 11/23/99 3:48 am
Wanted: Three experienced players for the DragonLance AD&D setting. The
game will be taking place in Palanthas for the beginning to move as the
characters dictate it should. Contact me at Kemo_PBeM_Game@yahoo.com for
more information. The application process is three step, so don't bother
applying if you don't feel like going through the process.
Thank you,
Kemo
---
Message 1413 of 6619 Reply
Re: DM'ing in General soroten
(24/M/Milwaukee) 11/23/99 11:55 am
One thing I picked up out of your post. The part about PC's hiding behind
others. I usually play a thief character and play the part to the hilt.
As I have developed my characters, I don't believe that my guy would be
running to the front to strike first. Heck when I can backstab 4X Why?
Playing my guy as presented to the DM, I would think that staying in character
would add to any XP bonus.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1411 by _OldWolf_
---
Message 1414 of 6619 Reply
take time to read i like it so much,,, kutanlord
11/23/99 12:40 pm
well it is a plug of a game where if you care you can feel like master
if you dont care you can still have a lot of fun, but the game is around
fron days fargone and it is not in 3D or any thing like it,
any way i like to go round and play with actual people for it is online
only game and there are over 10 players on any time day or night, my name
is "hama" if see me come over say hi'
set up, it is really quick for it is online game so it is stored on the
server not on your comp, download is about 7Mb you need to get "front
end" as well tho the best one is 11MB once you have it on you can start
the game up from the click on the site here it is:
http://www.iencentral.com/drakkar/launch_drakkar.html
best ifo site here,
http://home.earthlink.net/~jmodeck/index.html
and the network site is here, on network you can run that front end program
to build a prtret of your char or join in on chat they provide cust service
and you can go to other games as well,
http://www.iencentral.com/
see ya all around, be well
regards,
your friend
P.S
free game on server is really big....
---
Message 1415 of 6619 Reply
Re: DM'ing in General shinto_gaijin
(27/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/23/99 5:17 pm
The same thing could be said for low-level mages .. being courageous and
taking risks earns experience, letting everyone else take the brunt of
a losing battle doesn't ..
A good DM is much more likely to get nearsighted or dyslexic when reading
the damage dice against a PC who's risking his neck for his friends than
when the cowering "what good is my dagger going to do, and besides, I've
only got a 8 Armor Class" PC gets smacked around.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1413 by soroten
---
Message 1416 of 6619 Reply
Re: DM'ing in General Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/23/99 5:27 pm
Soroten -
First off, you sound like your speaking from the perspective of a player,
I thought this was a club for Dungeon Masters (And sometimes Game Master,
but never Pokemon Masters). I mentioned the awarding of experience in
a general manner and your applying directly to your character and one
thing your character does. Your not reading far enough into the question.
I'm not generalizing the game to combat. By 'hiding behind other players',
I believe the Dungeon Master's Guide (I didn't make this up, I took it
from the book) meant, do the shy from combat, follow others (like a sheep),
get in trouble with locals and let the party deal them out. A common situation
might be a thief who tries lifting something from the local merchant and
gets caught and relies on the party to bail him out, pay his fines, do
whatever it takes to get him out. Another is, they might try a backstab
once every combat then run away when it fails or, if they can't get the
backstab in, they usually don't fight or they might complain when I tell
them they can't backstab with a longsword.
Another thing, its only a faction of the points that would be awarded
during one session. Its not going to add up to a whole heck of a lot of
experience points. And if you were my player and you were running along
the line of playing a coward I would pull you aside and explain that you're
on the road to cowardice. I would then explain that AD&D/D&D is a game
of heroes, not cowards. I would explain to him that he doesn't need to
act foolishly (charging into a battle) but he should try to do something
a little different now and again.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1413 by soroten View Replies to this Message
---
Message 1417 of 6619 Reply
Re: DM'ing in General Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/23/99 5:30 pm
Hehe, just saw this after I posted my big one. Thanks shinto_gaijin, I
think that summed up what I was saying in a few less words.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1415 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1418 of 6619 Reply
Forgotten Realms Time-line fool_sean
11/23/99 8:29 pm
Have been looking on the web for the Time-line again. I do recall seeing
it in my travels, yet have been unable to locate it this time around.
Would anyone perchance know where I can find this little item?
While I'm at it, I was at the TSR downloads section, looking at the "Feast
of Goblyns" adventure, to my dismay, it lacked the very thing that I liked
about that adventure. The DM screen and a PC character sheet were included
with the original book, yet excluded from the on-line, downloadable one.
Would anyone know where I might be able to find the items? - Sean
f00lb0y@hotmail.com
http://beta.communities.msn.com/ADDPBeM&naventryid=106
---
Message 1419 of 6619 Reply
Re: DM'ing in General shinto_gaijin
(27/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/23/99 9:23 pm
Same purpose, different method of attack .. I can't remember howmany times
I've fudged a "to hit" roll or damage roll or saving throw to keep a PC
with low hit points alive, simply because I thoroughly enjoyed the way
the player conducted himself.
On the other hand, is the PC is being just plain foolhardy, charging into
battle when he has absolutely no business being there, I have no compunctions
against teaching him a lesson "the hard way" either (the first couple
of times usually involve unconsciousness and/or a broken bone or two).
Just as there is a difference between cautious and cowardly, there is
a difference between brave and stupid.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1417 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1420 of 6619 Reply
Control of OOC info Bard328
(33/M/Wisconsin) 11/24/99 8:19 am
A way I found to limit player's abuse of knowledge is to limit what they
hear that their player's wouldn't...eg, a fighter who's never been out
in the world sees his first Cockatrice...I do not tell him it is a Cockatrice
[and give him an idea of what kind of danger he's in], but describe it
as a "Funny-looking Chicken-like creature".
This sort of limited intelligence can and should be extended to inter-player
actions...if the party thief decides to pick the Cleric's pockets, he
should not announce it, but pass a note to the GM...who should also pass
a note back, unless the attempt is noticed.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1411 by _OldWolf_
---
Message 1421 of 6619 Reply
Re: Control of OOC info Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/24/99 9:18 am
Or ....
If a person does use OOC info that their character has no way of know,
just tell everyone that this course of action is unacceptable because
OOC info was used. Most good players will understand this already and,
should a player have a problem with the decision and want to argue for
some reason, the other players will back you up on this.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1420 by Bard328
---
Message 1422 of 6619 Reply
Re: Control of OOC info dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/25/99 6:56 am
I agree with Lotherio, any player worth the time it takes to make a character
knows better than to let his knowledge become his characters. This is
actually a problem I had with some newly recruited players. They had a
bad habit of attacking the team theif when he said that he picked their
pockets, the catch is they would never cathch him in the act. It took
us about a week to get over htis hump and for the last about 5 years they
have been my steady team, and one I am proud to claim. Players using their
knowledge in game is in my opinion a common flaw in NEW role-players,
an if it is a problem with experienced role players than more than likely
they will never overcome this obstacle, and I say you are best to just
drop them.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1421 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1423 of 6619 Reply
Re: Control of OOC info Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/25/99 8:10 am
I agree with all the views on this that I've actually read. One of my
players had a simalar problem when he encountered grey ooze.
I encountered the reverse problem as well, the character had encountered
a certain monster before but the player hadn't, it was the same player
and character (I think the monster in question was a Harpy).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1422 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1424 of 6619 Reply
Cursed Items?? dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/25/99 8:28 am
I have been of the long standing opinion that cursed relics and such should
be used for player discipline or story progression only. On the other
hand one of the guys I play with has, what I call, a nasty habit of randomly
giving out cursed artifacts for apparently no good reason. What are your
opinions on this? Is a cursed relic a toy, or a disciplinary measure and
story builder?
---
Message 1425 of 6619 Reply
Oh yeah almost forgot! dmfromhell
(19/M/I got fucked and they sen) 11/25/99 8:33 am
Do any of you know a place where I can down load Core Rules 2.0?
thanks
---
Message 1426 of 6619 Reply
Re: Cursed Items?? Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 11/25/99 10:42 am
That depends on what the curse is really. If it's a funny cursed item,
then it's a toy. But, if it's somethign that really hurts, or impares
a character, then I'd consider it a punishment. I'll never give out a
cursed item randomly, I'll always give them out when, and if, I deem appropriate.
My favorite cursed item of all time has got to be the Cursed Staff of
Striking. The staff detects as a Staff of the Magi, but any time a character
tries to use the staff, a little white placard pops out of the top of
the staff with "Staff on Strike, Players Unfair to Magical Items" and
will not allow itself to be wielded in any way.
Second favorite one has got to be my own Ring of Protection. Anytime it's
being worn and a character has a sexual thought of any type, a condom
appears in his/her hand.
~Kemo
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1424 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1427 of 6619 Reply
Re: Cursed Items?? shinto_gaijin
(27/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/25/99 11:34 pm
The occaisional cursed item (not relic) is an interesting twist .. I once
had a pair of "Boots of Running" as a PC .. you could run, as in a pair
of "boots of speed", but if you tried to attack (while running), you tripped
an fell flat on your face .. very embarrassing (and almost deadly) the
first time .. or a cursed "backbiter" spear, or an intellegent sword with
a personality disorder or extremely high ego .. make for interesting magic
items ..
Relics, on the other hand, should be rare .. the stuff of which legends
are made .. and their beneficial powers should roughly balance with the
curse .. IMHO
s/g
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1424 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1428 of 6619 Reply
Re: Cursed Items?? Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 11/26/99 7:55 am
I suspect I was the person in question, but I don't know that. My personal
favorite cursed item is the ring of weakness, however I feel it should
only be given to a character who resort to violence in every situation
when this is out of character as the curse is quite major (reduces strength
score to 3), it can however be detected as such with an appropriate spell
(i.e. it detects as a ring of weakness).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1427 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1429 of 6619 Reply
Re: Oh yeah almost forgot! Rast2
11/28/99 10:03 pm
You can probably "download" the core rules from amazon.com
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1425 by dmfromhell
---
Message 1430 of 6619 Reply
Re: Cursed Items?? Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/29/99 9:34 am
I just want to say I agree, cursed items shouldn't be introduced unless
you're ready to deal with them (i.e. sub-plot). While the play characters
aren't going to really going to quest to find out why a ring of wizardy
does what it does, they're certainly going to do all in their power to
get that ring of clumsiness off. The only random ones I can think of are
small items, like cursed luck coins or something, nothing really harmful
to the user or other party members.
I doubly agree with the relics. I don't think they should just out right
be cursed (like magical items that are cursed, they have no useful effects,
unless the player wants to give it to someone else). They should have
both good and bad effects on the players. Bad effects shouldn't ever outway
the good and vice versa. Note, I do not consider an evil egotistical item
that tries to take over its host a bad effect (via curse) - alignement
and intelligence is a whole other story. In fact, verying intillegence
and ego could outway some of the good effects without really cursing the
item too much.
Just some thoughts,
Richie
---
Message 1431 of 6619 Reply
Magical Items Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/29/99 2:03 pm
A powerful magic item (shield with a number of pluses) entered my campaign.
Being the single most powerful item (a few notches above everything else
the players have), I really wanted to have an side effect happen when
its used. I don't mean a negative side effect, just something that makes
it stick out as a magical item (and perhaps give reason to others to want/steal
it). So, I thought that when I swung a near miss against the pc using
the item, that near miss would actually be a hit. But the pc's would see
the weapons hit a barrier. Where the weapon contacts the barrier, shiny
white ripples would emanate from that point and move in a spherical direction
around the shields owner. As the ripples move, they would dissipate and
maybe vanish somewhere just before the cover one complete hemisphere.
As I was thinking of doing this, I became curious as to if anyone else
had thought up some various highly visible effects when using magical
items. I mean aside from the humming/vibrating/glow soword?
---
Message 1432 of 6619 Reply
Re: Magical Items shinto_gaijin
(27/M/Sasebo, Japan) 11/29/99 4:56 pm
I use magic items very sparingly .. and almost every one has something
unique about it .. the "common, useful, one-shot" magic items, such as
a potion of healing, or a scroll spell, are maybe even more rare than
an intelligent sword ..
making magic items is not a profitable profession .. how much time is
a wizard going to spend making +1 Long Swords (which he can't use), unless
he's outfitting his personal guards, doing a favor for a good friend,
or owes someone big time ..
even a spell scroll .. after searching for the right materials (to make
the paper, the ink, etc.) he spends weeks putting one spell on one scroll
.. how much is that scroll worth to him ?? .. is he going to waste his
time making a "Read Magic" scroll, or is he going to scribe the more powerful
spells that he needs to get out of a jam "Dispel Magic", "Teleport", "Cloudkill",
"Power Word Tickle" etc.
Magic Items, in my opinion, should be special .. sure, there will be your
occaisional +1 Sword (maybe a failed attempt at something greater) but
no one will want to be remembered by "yeah, he made good healing potions"
but by great accomplishments, putting his heart and soul (in some cases,
literally) into his work ..
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1431 by Lotherio_Giacomo
----
Message 1433 of 6619 Reply
Re: Magical Items Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 11/30/99 9:52 am
I think enchanting magical items can be a profitable profession. All the
wizard really needs to do is cast the spells. All the rare ingredients,
the fine crafted weapon and anything else the wizard needs he can have
those requesting the item retrieve for him. Then he can charge for the
finished product as well. That still doesn't mean he'll turn into a magic
item factory, just because one person was lucky enough to get the ingredients
required doesn't mean everyone else will. All this plus the Mage gets
some experience in creating the item itself.
Of course, I also think that the availability of magical items will vary
from campaign to campaign. Depending on whether or not its a high or low
magic campaign and the rarity of magic-using persons (if the only existing
magic user of 10+ experience levels lives at the World's Edge Mountains,
hidden amongst a Stone Giant civilization, then getting getting that +1
sword will be a major event for the world in general). I beliebe this
will be about as varied as the awarding of experience points at the end
of a session, mostly personal taste. Personally, there are more pc's and
npc's in the party then magical items at the moment in my campaign. However,
I'm playing in a preconstructed campaign (Al-Qadim). I'm trying to make
it an even match for NPC's listed in the printed material that I have,
that and it says its a high magic place because of its relationship to
the genies and the elemental planes. Higher then Forgotten Realms and
Kara-Tor, whigh of course is subject to how much magic I would put into
each of those and other areas of Toril. I've run a home brew world were
magic was quite rare, that was just the type of campaign I was running
at the time.
Basically what I was fetching for was some ideas on what other people
have done with magical item effects (other then the benefits the apply
to dice roles and such). A little bit of extra information that has no
real 'game value' other then an interesting piece to add to story value.
Something a little different then a sword that glows faintly, or sword
that glows brightly when in the face of a certain enemy (i.e. Sword +1,
+3 vs. giants that glows and vibrates within a certain radius of giant
kind). Something I might be able to adapt to my compaign should the pc's
cross anything other powerful magic items (whether its in their hands
or not).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1432 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1434 of 6619 Reply
Re: Magical Items Elkin_DeathBlade
(38/M/Oearth,Flannees, Greyhawk) 11/30/99 3:51 pm
"As I was thinking of doing this, I became curious as to if anyone else
had thought up some various highly visible effects when using magical
items. I
mean aside from the humming/vibrating/glow sword? "
I once had a long sword that CONSTANTLY Hummed the Battle Hyme of the
Republic... Even when it was in it's sheath (it was muffled but still
audible while shealthed). of course in Maylay it Sung out loud, and doing
a breserker rage it SCREAMED the song... it's interesting to listen to
it sign while a good portion of the blade was burried in the chest of
an opponent... kinda a gurggling sound like signing with your mouth full
of water...
of course you could not Leave it behind, you *HAD* to pick it back up
before retreating... you could Set it down for a little while, and a few
times I SWEAR I left it on the horse, but woke up the next morning cradling
it in my arms like a baby... (I did not sleep very well that first night,
but the humming eventially grew on me and I could no longer sleep with
out it any more...)
When I DID finally get the Cursed thing away from me I sufferd from sleepless
nights for 3 times as long as I had the sword, as an after effect of the
curse that wore off after almost 9 months...
I had str, con, wis, int, dex, and cha penilties during that time period,
acted out of my alignment, EXP losses for acting out of alignment even
thou it was due to a curse, and generally was a Bastard to be around till
it wore off...
then I went back to my normal Lawfull Stupid ways of being stuckup and
Noble...
(it was a GREAT role play and I got 2 levels worth of exp because of the
way I acted it out...)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1431 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1435 of 6619 Reply
Re: Magical Items Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 11/30/99 5:45 pm
One idea I can think of if your campaign is mostly outdoors - could be
affecting the weather. causing rain clouds to form [which could alert
those looking for the magic item] lightning strikes in the area, or causing
a dense fog [which may be helpful or harmful].
Another idea could be that the item generates a hum on a frequency that
humanoids cannot hear, but attracts dogs or better yet gnolls or bugbears.
[ maybe it takes a while for the party to figure it out - everytime you
put on those slippers of spider climbing we end up surrounded by tribe
none too happy QUAGGOTH.....
smell is always a good effect to use, the smell could attract monsters,
or be so foul the characters don't want to stick around too long. Maybe
the party wizard has allergies and the +2 sword the ranger has causes
excessive amounts pollen to be in the air. The wizard has a 3-20 chance
of sneezing every combat round [thus breaking his concentration]
or maybe the smell is so putrid everybody within '20 must make a saving
throw or loose their lunch.
just a few...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1433 by Lotherio_Giacomo
---
Message 1436 of 6619 Reply
Re: Magical Items Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 12/1/99 2:44 am
I once owned a sword that bled everytime it came within 100 feet of undead.
It was pretty creepy, really, but the sword was an udead slayer and the
blood was meant to attract the little devils. The blade glowed a soft
light on command in order to see what it had attracted. Little different
then the humming or vibrating near creatures, but it was pretty freaky
to be walking down a musty crypt passage with only the steadt drip of
water and realizing that the sound of water was actually blood oozing
from the eyes of the face in the hilt of your blade (!)
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1435 by Eoganachta
---
Message 1437 of 6619 Reply
Opinion Needed Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 12/1/99 3:58 am
I have just introduced this little baby into one of my campaigns, and
I need to know the opinion of my fellow DMs. Tell me what you think. Rast,
stop reading here please. :-)
The Heart of Solinari
---------------------
The Heart of Solinari, taken nearly a millennia ago from the moon of the
same name, is an innately powerful magical Artifact. Crafted by the God
of Good Magic himself, the heart possesses a small amount of the God's
essence, and a large part of his power. Given to only the most faithful
of his followers, the Heart can only be transferred upon another with
the God's blessing. Only those in great need, or in close spiritual contact
with the God may wield the Heart's powers.
Alignment:
Neutral Good
Primary Abilities:
Detect Magic, 10' Radius
Read Magic Always
Grant AC2 to wielder
Extraordinary Powers:
ESP 1/day
Clairaudience 1/day
Clairvoyance 1/day
Illusion 1/wk
Lightning Bolt 1/wk
Heal 1/mo
Special Purpose:
1)The perpetuation of Magic
Special Purpose Power:
1) Prismatic Sphere
Drawbacks:
1) Anyone that sees the Artifact in use covets it, Save vs. Spells -5
to avoid effect.
2) Wielder becomes more dependent with each use, Save vs. Spells at -3
to avoid effect. If wielder fails 10 saves, he/she becomes bonded to item
and cannot be removed from it without dying within a week. If he/she becomes
reunited with the Heart, this is nullified. Solinari himself may also
choose to remove the Heart from the wielder without repercussions.
3) Calls out to all Magic Users, letting its presence be known.
4) Will only allow its powers to be used if the situation dictates it,
or if they coincide with its special purpose.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1436 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1438 of 6619 Reply
bleeding sword Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 12/1/99 6:11 am
I think I know some vampires that would pay you a small fortune for that
blade. ;•)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1436 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1439 of 6619 Reply
Re: Magical Items MShayO
(30/M/Pittsburgh, PA) 12/1/99 9:51 am
First:
I must admit I borrowed the idea from a campaign I was in, but what I've
done is added two schools of magic to my campaign world. They are considered
opposite and are only NPCs. These are the Artificer (maker of magic items)
and the Alchemist (maker of potions and scrolls). Each school has its
own set of spells and abilities that allow the practitioners to magic
objects and brew potions. As the caster gains in experience their ability
to fashion items advances. The arch-mage artificer is the maker of such
gems as staves of the magi, rings of wishes, and intelligent swords. The
grand old mage of artification brings into being artifacts of power -
think of the maker of the Silmarllion in LotR, or the fashioners of the
great rings in said world.
Second:
As far as making items interesting, basic swords in my world (+1) are
usually not magic, just made of exceptional materials - mithril/ adamantite/metoric
iron/etc. Magiced metals are usually +2 to +3. Anything better than +3
is more magic than metal. One +4 sword (of the woodlands) was a hilt with
a straight living banch growing from it...leaves and all. We had a +5
sword that was made of flexible gold leaf. Probably the best was the plain
looking +4 that gave telepathic tactical advice *ping*"jump on the table"
*ping*"parry the attack" *ping*"this opponent is immune to edged weapons"
*ping*"run away"...you get the point.
Also the most powerful artifacts, the legendary "weapons of the immortals"
have few penalties other than it is obvious to everyone they are exceptional,
and someone is always looking to take it away from the owner...usually
with an army or couple of dragons to help them out...pretty prohibative
to carry the damn things around.
Later
MShayO
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1432 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1440 of 6619 Reply
Gettin' some newbies started... brutish_celt
(19/M/Harrison, AR) 12/2/99 11:57 am
I'm starting up a new paper & pencils game with a pair of newbies and
a guy that I've played with for a few years. Anyone got any ideas for
newbie adventures? It's been a while since I've run anything for beginners,
and they're eager to get started soon. Any help would be appreciated.
p.s.
They're starting at 5th level, if that's any help.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Orc Killer,
T*B*C
---
Message 1441 of 6619 Reply
Re: Gettin' some newbies started... Rast2
12/2/99 12:15 pm
My advice:
Start them out at 1st or 2nd level, not 5th. Don't allow them to multi-class
(except maybe fighter/thief).
As for the actual adventure, do the old "goblin raiders" plot... you know,
goblins kill a few farmers, players scout around and find a small tribe
of goblins have set up a camp in the forest nearby, players have to get
rid of the goblins somehow.
Or if they are in the city, and they have a few thieves, have someone
hire them to retrieve something which was stolen from him. However, a
little bit of detective work will show that the PC's employer is not the
true owner of the object...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1440 by brutish_celt
---
Message 1442 of 6619 Reply
Re: Gettin' some newbies started... Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 12/2/99 1:14 pm
I agree, do not start out someone new to role-playing at 5th level. I
would go so far as to say do not start them out at anything above 1st
level. I don't necessarily agree with outlawing mutli classed characters,
but it wouldn't hurt to explain everything to them and that it is harder
for multi classed characters (If they're really new, I explain that mages
and clerics can sometimes be a little more difficult to run but I won't
disallow these as choices). That's the best way to learn the game, from
scratch. Starting them out at anything higher is like taking someone who's
never been to swimming lessons and throwing them in the deep end, sure,
if they really want to survive they'll learn to swim somehow. Of course,
that's a little bit drastic of a comparison, considering one is a game
and one is a life or death situation. But it's still the same concept,
asking for someone to learn the advanced class before the beginner class.
I can sort of understand not wanting to hold back the learning curve of
an advanced person (in swimming) but your normal player should enjoy starting
over as its just a game of fun.
I like those ideas suggested by Rast2. Those are good begining adventures.
Just think of anything you may have done as a low level player. Think
of your initial impression of various encounters and monsters and adventures.
Despite what players think they know about kobolds, one might be surprised
how little they do know (unless its one of those players who have a monsters
manual/compendium and keep reading over it). Most people might assume
they are short red haird rat looking things. Just say they encounter little
dog men with sharp tails and legs like goats, little red devils. If that
doesn't work, make them blue imps or something.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1441 by Rast2
---
Message 1443 of 6619 Reply
Leaving a game. ersuis
(M/USA) 12/2/99 7:18 pm
What should you do if a player of yours wants to leave the game, in the
middle of a session? Or what if he just leaves, leaving his character?
---
Message 1444 of 6619 Reply
Re: Leaving a game. Eoganachta
(35/M/Glendale, CA) 12/2/99 9:33 pm
he becomes your npc - or maybe another player can speak for him if it
is a one time situation.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1443 by ersuis
---
Message 1445 of 6619 Reply
Re: Leaving a game. Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 12/2/99 10:06 pm
Depends, are you more worried about losing the player or the character.
The character part was already covered.
However, if your worried about the player, let them leave the session
but maybe call a break and walk with the player as they leave, find out
why they left. Even though we should only have to literally be a Dungeon
Master as a referee to a game , sometimes, we have to be a 'Dungeon Master'
amongst the players themselves. I'm not saying we should try to control
everything or even try to tell these people how to act, but we the players
usual expect us to be the ones to hold the group together during odd situations.
Maybe the player doesn't like the way the game is progressing - is it
really important that we keep whatever bothers the player or could it
be changed for the fun of the game? I've changed parts I thought critical
to the game in favor of keeping the social group together. Perhaps there
is a problem amongst other players and the way they act - we could sit
everyone down and discuss the group as a gaming group, I do this with
my players often. Or maybe, if it tends to be a problem with a single
player and others agree, take that player aside and diguss it with him
- sure, we probably don't want to tell the stinky guy he needs to shower
before coming, but sometimes it needs to be done and usualy the players
are expecting the Dungeon Master to do this.
Just some thought, that is of course if you are worried about the player.
If you're not, and player is more of a problem then their worth, let them
go.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1443 by ersuis
---
Message 1446 of 6619 Reply
Re: Leaving a game. MShayO
(30/M/Pittsburgh, PA) 12/3/99 1:56 am
If the player leaves because of a problem with the game or the other players,
that's one thing, but if he just has to go I used a simple solution in
one campaign:
The antagonist of the party through some 2 years of real time was a high
level mage that first hired them then later tried to off them. Whenever
somone had to leave or couldn't make a session they just *poof* disappeared.
No one really questioned this, remarkably enough. Turned out the mage
was teleporting them away to pick their minds for information, tactics,
etc, as well as to perform little experiments upon them and use them for
services. A healthy dose of his personal supply of philters of forgetting
and they were none the wiser. Made him real tough to beat, and the players
never knew why until the end.
Later
Shay
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1443 by ersuis
---
Message 1447 of 6619 Reply
Thanks for the ideas, guys. brutish_celt
(19/M/Harrison, AR) 12/3/99 1:11 pm
I talked with my experienced player, and he agreed with the 1st level
approach. After the first session, I'll tell you guys how it went. Hopefully,
we've got two more players to help spread the game around. Again, thanks
to those who replied, and good gaming to all!
T*B*C
---
Message 1448 of 6619 Reply
Thanx. ersuis
(M/USA) 12/3/99 4:06 pm
To everybody who responded to my post, thanks for your suggestions. Next
time that happens to me, I know a basis of what I should do. And I know
it'll happen to me again, because of my little brother.
---
Message 1449 of 6619 Reply
How to retrieve his soul? mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 12/3/99 11:35 pm
Two of my players decided to go to my city in my campaign, made for fighting.
They chose to have a contest between them with a deck o many things, keep
drawing until one dies/ loses soul. well one of them did lose there soul.
How should they go get it? where is it?
mk.
---
Message 1450 of 6619 Reply
Re: How to retrieve his soul? Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 12/4/99 11:10 am
I have one standing rule when it comes to characters and death. -Do not
kill anyone unless it's due to their own stupidity.-
This game you are talking about was, to put it as kindly as possible,
STUPID. They decided to play until death or the loss of a soul, therefore,
the character should stay dead, or lost. It's the player's fault, plain
and simple. The character should stay dead. He played it like that, then
realized he didn't like the way it turned out.
~Kemo
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1449 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1451 of 6619 Reply
Re: How to retrieve his soul? mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 12/4/99 5:56 pm
First of all hes not dead, secondly it says in the DMG that they can and
should be able to retrieve it, look up the Deck of Many things.
m.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1450 by Fynduril_Skyrunner
---
Message 1452 of 6619 Reply
Re: How to retrieve his soul? Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 12/4/99 9:02 pm
I -have- read it. My -point- is that if a player was stupid enough to
participate in a game like that, he -deserves- what happens.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1451 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1453 of 6619 Reply
Re: How to retrieve his soul? wolflaughing
(34/M/miami,fla.) 12/4/99 9:26 pm
I have to agree here. there should be no coming back from a game of russian
roulette between players with souls or lives as the stakes.Remember its
a god who grants a resssurection spell not the players.Oh and forget what
the dm's guide says your the dm not them.However if they insist merely
put the soul where someone who would collect souls would have it say one
of the layer of the abyss in a tanarri lord's candy jar. etc,etc. there
isnt any need to reward idiots
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1452 by Fynduril_Skyrunner
---
Message 1454 of 6619 Reply
Re: WIN! DRAW! OR LOSE SOUL! wolflaughing
(34/M/miami,fla.) 12/4/99 9:30 pm
However it might be interesting from a campaign point of veiw. The villain
challenges you to a game of chance with souls being the stakes.Not nessecarily
your own soul either perhaps your companions souls or innocents if say
this is a demon with a quota to fill and of course you throw in a tempting
prize to get them to play. muhahahahaha!
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1453 by wolflaughing
---
Message 1455 of 6619 Reply
Retrieving souls mkinjubhy
(n/t/M/wherever you go there yo) 12/4/99 10:43 pm
Yes but the players opponent (the victor) also wants to go get it. I kind
of like the candy jar thing.
mk.
---
Message 1456 of 6619 Reply
Re: Retrieving souls Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 12/5/99 1:38 am
I was once in an underdark campaign where a particularly nasty group of
drow had us over for dinner and they used a deck as a party favourite....pretty
interesting party...my buddy ended up being knocked back to first level
and having a 20 strength....Now Im in a campaign as a 5th level elven
archer and I happen to have a deck of many things strapped to my chest
because theres a kender in the group and Id like to keep it that way....
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1455 by mkinjubhy
---
Message 1457 of 6619 Reply
Pick a card, any card.NOT THAT CARD! wolflaughing
(34/M/miami,fla.) 12/5/99 3:56 am
Ack! they should call those "DECKS OF DESTROYING CAMPAIGNS THAT HAVE TAKEN
A LOT OF WORK IN A FEW SECONDS" seriously those things are waaayyyy over
powered i have seen some modified ones in a real old dungeoneer magazine
i believe it was called "a deck of a few things" and "a deck of even fewer
things" heh mostly low level stuff for good and bad
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1456 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1458 of 6619 Reply
Need Some Help Rune_Lord
(312/M/Somewhere in Faerun) 12/5/99 10:13 am
Gretings to all. I am trying to find an article that came out mid 1996,
early 1997. The article is titled Major Curses. If anyone has a copy of
the article I would much appreciate it. Drop me a line: rune_lord@yahoo.com.
Rune Lord
---
Message 1459 of 6619 Reply
Re: Opinion Needed Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 12/5/99 12:11 pm
Hey everyone, I'm still looking for an opinion on this item/artifact.
I'd like to know what my fellow DMs think of it.
The Heart of Solinari
---------------------
The Heart of Solinari, taken nearly a millennia ago from the moon of the
same name, is an innately powerful magical Artifact. Crafted by the God
of Good Magic himself, the heart possesses a small amount of the God's
essence, and a large part of his power. Given to only the most faithful
of his followers, the Heart can only be transferred upon another with
the God's blessing. Only those in great need, or in close spiritual contact
with the God may wield the Heart's powers.
Alignment:
Neutral Good
Primary Abilities:
Detect Magic, 10' Radius Always
Read Magic Always
Grant AC2 to wielder
Extraordinary Powers:
ESP 1/day
Clairaudience 1/day
Clairvoyance 1/day
Illusion 1/wk
Lightning Bolt 1/wk
Heal 1/mo
Special Purpose:
1)The perpetuation of Magic
Special Purpose Power:
1) Prismatic Sphere
Drawbacks:
1) Anyone that sees the Artifact in use covets it, Save vs. Spells -5
to avoid effect.
2) Wielder becomes more dependent with each use, Save vs. Spells at -3
to avoid effect. If wielder fails 10 saves, he/she becomes bonded to item
and cannot be removed from it without dying within a week. If he/she becomes
reunited with the Heart, this is nullified. Solinari himself may also
choose to remove the Heart from the wielder without repercussions.
3) Calls out to all Magic Users, letting its presence be known.
4) Will only allow its powers to be used if the situation dictates it,
or if they coincide with its special purpose.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1437 by Fynduril_Skyrunner
----
Message 1460 of 6619 Reply
Deck of Many Things and Lost Souls Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 12/5/99 8:29 pm
I agree with what someone said about the Deck being powerful. The Deck
of Many Things has many how powered cards to 'win' and less, though quite
drastic, cards to 'lose' with. Whatever turns up in your campaign, its
because you put it there. If you let one into your campaign you should
be ready to deal with the consequences, good or bad - as should the players
have been; and the player is quite lucky to still be alive. I'm not so
worried about the bad cards so much as the good cards. No matter what
level of the campaign, there is the potential to give a character too
much and make him a little advanced for the campaign you are running.
However, onto the lost soul. There should be a chance to get it back,
depending on how nice you feel. Another possibilty is that the soul catching
end of the cards is actually the creator of the cards. Develope a history
for the item. Again, depending on how nice you feel, you could have some
interplanar soul collecter, some powerful entities on the first few planes
of hell, some powerful demons from the lower planes or possibly even an
evil god. In my opinion, it should be next to impossible to retrieve the
soul. Let the player found out where it is, realize the chances are far
better that they'll die if they try to retrive it and let them make the
choice for themselves. Also, make sure they are role-playing souless while
without there soul - basically the character should not be overly interested
in adventure anymore, for less capable of making any real decisions and
with in an inch of retirement. The only thing that might give them some
motivation is the possibility of retrieving their soul.
---
Message 1461 of 6619 Reply
Re: Opinion Needed Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 12/5/99 8:38 pm
Ok - it is a rather powerful artifact and the drawbacks aren't much compared
to those listed in the 1st edition DMG. You'll really have to enforce
them to the utmost. Especially the 4th drawback, so long as the character
is doing something self motivated, the item will not work period. Then,
make the player put forth real effort on the part of his character to
keep it. So long as its on their person, someone else is going to want
it - if they put it away in their laboratory, they can't wander too far
with risk of dying. Artifacts are really powerful and should only really
be truly beneficial to a select few mortals. Rarly should the pc's truly
be one of those person, eventually the drawbacks should be too much and
they should realize they just weren't meant to have such an artifact.
I'm not saying don't ever give a character one, but at the time they become
that powerful, they should be near enough to retirement - perhaps their
last ever true 'adventure' is in acquiring such an item and using it for
one great causing, then moving into their home/keep/stronghold full time
and leaving peacefully the rest of their live.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1459 by Fynduril_Skyrunner
---
Message 1462 of 6619 Reply
Re: Opinion Needed shinto_gaijin
(27/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/6/99 12:40 am
It's not THAT powerful, but could be, in the wrong hands .. but in the
wrong hands, it doesn't work, so ..
I think the ESP, Clairvoyance, and Clairaudience powers should be spontaneous
.. activated when the Artifact thinks it proper (a horde of barbarians
being raised to reduce the Librarum Arkanus Majikum to itty bitty stones
and throw a book bonfire, for example) .. whether it be through dreams
or "voices in your head" or flash-backs or "there's a blinding flash of
light, and suddenly you see .." or what-have-you ..
The powers don't seem appropriate to the special purpose .. add "Wall
of Force", "Extension" and "Permanency" to the powers, make the illusion
a full-bore, wide area, five-senses effect (which can do no harm .. it's
a good artifact), and maybe additional spell-casting ability (restricted
to certain spheres or schools) (or new spell casting ability, for non-spell-slingers)
..
I'm not too keen on lightning bolt and prismatic sphere either .. neither
seems to meet the special purpose or the alignment .. more for personal
attack or defense .. creative use of the illusion could easily have the
same effect ..
Picture this ..
The Red-Hand Horde (the barbarians mentioned earlier), numbering in the
thousands, covers the hills surrounding the Librarum Arkanus, bonfires
and banners as far as the eye can see ..
Suddenly, Tim the Sorceror steps from the massive Librarum doorway, holding
aloft the Heart of Solinari ..
The sky darkens with boiling multi-colored clouds, blocking out the sun,
the air chills, and a cool wind blows (making those barbarians wish they
had worn more than their loincloths) the clouds begin to break, but instead
of the sun, the moon Solinari shines through, lightning dances in the
sky, arcing ever lower ..
With a majestic sweep of his hand, Tim points to a nearby hill, and a
swirling rainbow of magical energy belches forth from the sky, obliterating
the hilltop and sending a hot blast of wind, tinged with the smell of
ozone and burned grass, and carrying with it miniscule debris ..
At this point, hopefully, the barbarians fail their morale check and flee
.. but it might just drive then into a berzerker rage, which is where
the wall of force comes in handy .. either way, the Librarum is saved
(special purpose) at least for the short term, and no one got hurt (neutral
good) .. and it glorifies the God Solinari ..
sorry about the long post, but I got carried away ..
s/g
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1459 by Fynduril_Skyrunner
---
Message 1463 of 6619 Reply
Re: Opinion Needed shinto_gaijin
(27/M/Sasebo, Japan) 12/6/99 12:45 am
the "With a majestic sweep of his hand ... with it miniscule debris" is
all illusory .. I don't know if that was clear (hopefully it wasn't to
the barbarians ..)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1462 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1464 of 6619 Reply
It worked! brutish_celt
(19/M/Harrison, AR) 12/6/99 10:31 am
Just thought that I'd live up to my previous post and inform you guys
on how the game went.
It all started on a dark and stormy night(first one we've had around here
in a month or so). I only ended up with two players, as one of the poor
newbies got stuck doing some church thing. Needless to say, I toned down
the adventure to a point where two first-level characters could get away
with not dying too much. The gnomish cleric/thief was a big boon (my experienced
player) when the guys took out the owlbear (there was only one, and his
first round was lost to the fact that he was preoccupied with eating a
cow). Overall, my boys managed to waste the goblins and their hobgoblin
boss, and there was much rejoicing. The players now have free drinks any
time they pass through the farming community of Rorun.
Again, thanks for all the advice. The adventure was a hit and already
there are rumblings of Act II (why were those goblins stealing cows?)...
Good gaming to all, and to all a good fight!
T*B*C
---
Message 1465 of 6619 Reply
Caroc Beard_Y
(17/M/Lancre, Toril) 12/6/99 12:08 pm
A set of Caroc Cards contains 8 suits, (Octogram, Elephant, Turtle, Dagger,
Coin, Chalice, Staff, Crowned A) with each of the 13 ranks A,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,J,Q,K.
Each card has a diffrent tarot style picture, there are also 8 special
cards added in only for fortune telling (including Death, Temperance,The
Moon, The Star, The Dome of the sky and the Pool of Night).
Anyone wondering what an Octagram is, it's like a Pentagram but it's 8
sided.
What this has to do with a deck of many things is beyond me, but I thought
it could plausibly be subsituted, and doesn't have such severe consiquences.
It is traditonally used to play Cripple Mr. Onion.
The PC Troll Detritus has a deck of Caroc Cards (This is only tempory
until the player confirms they want that character.)
---
Message 1466 of 6619 Reply
Re: Opinion Needed Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 12/6/99 4:06 pm
I too thought that the abilities by the artifact were a little out of
wack....some really good ideas here though
-Orgy
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1462 by shinto_gaijin
---
Message 1467 of 6619 Reply
zOmBiE gNoMeS fRoM sPaCe Orgy_of_SouLs
(23/M/Calgary, AB Canada) 12/6/99 4:14 pm
Anybody out there play dragonlance on a regular basis? If so, I have a
little question about the Tinker Gnomes of Krynn...
I am using a tinker gnome as an npc at the moment as a booster for future
adventures (he's going to inadvertantly create a time machine out of the
pocket watch he's always working on) my question is, How are these little
creastures effectivly played as pc's? They hardly seem to be the "whip
something up on the fly" type...they keep meticulous plans and charts
of everything they do. Its a fascinating ability they have, but what good
is it? It seems like they need the use of a full time work area and lots
of time to make the stuff they do, so why would they bother adventuring?
Of course they could be out to get funds for projects, but it looks like
they need so much more non adventuring time....
-Orgy
---
Message 1468 of 6619 Reply
Re: zOmBiE gNoMeS fRoM sPaCe Lotherio_Giacomo
(27/M/Omaha, NE) 12/6/99 7:58 pm
Gnomes are very interesting in Dragonlance, don't forget about the relative
size of their inventions (10 times too big).
As far as adventuring PC gnomes, simple - Life Quest. So long as their
Life Quest would give them reason to adventure, they're in the game. This
could be as simple as finding an alternate/new source of power to searching
for specific elements to make their machines more efficient. Something
likely unreasonable to happen in Mount Nevermind alone and something that
will take many years of adventure to find (if that is at all possible).
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1467 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1469 of 6619 Reply
Re: zOmBiE gNoMeS fRoM sPaCe brutish_celt
(19/M/Harrison, AR) 12/6/99 9:13 pm
Granted, the little buggers need a lot of non-adventuring time (lab work),but
they're very likely to be taking copious notes and doing all manner of
'field research' while out garnering funds (the Mount Nevermind beuraucracy
is remarkably inefficient at getting around to issuing grants and such)
or acquiring needed materials. They shouldn't be too hard to roleplay
as long as you keep one thing in mind: Minoi are ALWAYS busy. They pursue
their research like a kender in a candy store (with large bowls of shiny
candy). Even if they are taking part in a more 'noble' adventure, they'll
still take every opportunity to analyze, sketch, postulize, and theorize
about whatever they come across, expecially if it relates to their Life
Quest (and a creative tinker gnome will somehow be able to relate just
about anything to their Life Quest). All said, when playing a tinker gnome,
be a busybody. Get your majesticly pronounced snout into everything faster
than that little kender thief can snatch a copper piece.
Good gaming!
T*B*C
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1467 by Orgy_of_SouLs
---
Message 1470 of 6619 Reply
Really random geometry question SCA_Bard
(23/F/Barony of Storvick) 12/7/99 12:09 pm
Beard-Y's post about octagrams got me thinking...
A pentacle is a five-pointed star-like sketch, right?
A pentagon is a five-sided polygon, like the building of that name in
Washington DC...
So what's a pentagram? How's it different from one of the other 2? Or
is it just another name for a pentacle?
Any geometry whizzes out there?
---
Message 1471 of 6619 Reply
Re: Dictionaries are our friend... orghanusy2k
12/7/99 12:40 pm
Looking up the word "pentacle" revealed this...
*pentacle: a five-pointed star that is formed by five lines connecting
the vertices(the points)of a *"pentagon" and enclosing another pentagon
in the completed figure. Also Called *"pentagram".
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1470 by SCA_Bard
---
Message 1472 of 6619 Reply
I would like to take this time to... orghanusy2k
12/7/99 1:35 pm
Greetings all!
I am the founder of a world known as Autochthasia(au-tock-thay-zja). I
have over 50,000 hours of recorded play in this world, most of which was
campaigned by the same eight individuals. I believe I have more information
and history than the "Forgotten Realms" box set published by TSR, and
I would like to share this experience with others.
However, I have recently bought this computer and have no idea how it
works. For example, it took me THREE days to figure out why I wasn't getting
my E-mail. Needless to say, I am having difficulty converting.
Are there any suggestion out there to help ease the transformation? OR,
Would anyone with the time and experience that I lack, like to co-DM some
low-level adventures with me- helping me understand the ways of the almighty
"internet"?
P.S.
I like to spice my campains up with incentives and awards for certain
catagories. For example, 1st to 3rd lvl campaigns reward "Best Role-Playing"
with a $15 coupon toward gaming materials from my store(4th to 7th lvl
is $25), and I would like to make this store available to the players.
So, I could use so info on that as well?
Thanks to those in advance for your help, and thanks to those who atleast
got this far!
---
Message 1473 of 6619 Reply
Re: Dictionaries are our friend... xvimlar
(27/M/Grand Rapids, MI) 12/8/99 11:19 am
My understand is this.. a pentagon is, as was mentiond, a five sided object
with equalateral sides.. a pentacle is a pentagram with a star inside,
a pentagram is a circle with a five sided star inside. The pentagram seems
to have more mystical signifigance in traditional witchcraft/spellcasting
where as the pentacle is often worn as a ward against evil, usually necklace.
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1471 by orghanusy2k
----
Message 1474 of 6619 Reply
Re: Dictionaries are our friend... xvimlar
(27/M/Grand Rapids, MI) 12/8/99 11:20 am
typo... pentacle is a pentagon with a star in it, pentagram is a circle
with a star in it...
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1473 by xvimlar
---
Message 1475 of 6619 Reply
Planescape? xvimlar
(27/M/Grand Rapids, MI) 12/8/99 11:23 am
New to the group, so far looks like a bright lot, glad I found it!
Anyone out there use the Planescape setting? Lately I've taken to running
planescape exclusively but I encorporate most of the other commercial
settings a few of my own.. that's actually why I like Planescape so much,
so many options are open when literally, the entire AD&D universe is at
your fingertips and easily blended into whatever your pc's happen to be
doing at the time.
---
Message 1476 of 6619 Reply
The Mysteries of words orghanusy2k
(28/M/Virginia) 12/8/99 3:40 pm
Here follows the exact definition of a PENTACLE:
1. A five-pointed star FORMED by Five(separate and distinct)straight lines
(so that by)connecting the vertices (the points created by the lines touching)
a PENTAGON is formed, and (the five lines)enclosing another PENTAGON in
the completed figure. Also called PENTAGRAM.
2. A figure composed of two equilateral triangles intersecting so as to
form a SIX-POINTED star (???), --- used in early ornamental arts and also
with superstitious import by the astrologers and mystics of the Middle
Ages.
3. Synonomous with PENTAGRAM
PENTAGRAM
1. See PENTACLE
2. Having five lines
3. (exact definition as PENTACLE #1)
This Is a Reply to: Msg 1473 by xvimlar
---
Message 1477 of 6619 Reply
Pentacle/Pentagram orghanusy2k
(28/M/Virginia) 12/8/99 4:02 pm
Reading the definitions of the words in question, I found that PENTACLE
or PENTAGRAM can be used in either case and would be acceptable. However,
I found it strange that in the definition of pentacle, there were questions
about how a word which litterally tranlated from greek means five, found
its way to also describe a six-sided star.?.
There's a mystery for you.
---
Message 1478 of 6619 Reply
The Heart of Solinari Fynduril_Skyrunner
(21/M/Pennsylvania) 12/8/99 6:55 pm
Well~
Here is the altered version fo the Heart. Let me know what you think.
I really liked the ideas of the Ilusions, but I didn't use them because
Solinari doesn't allow Illusion spells. I didn't check that the first
time, so I had to chang some things, a lot of things actually. Let me
know what you think now please.
~Kemo
The Heart of Solinari
---------------------
The Heart of Solinari, taken nearly a millennia ago from the moon of the
same name, is an innately powerful magical Artifact. Crafted by the God
of Good Magic himself, the heart possesses a small amount of the God's
essence, and a large part of his power. Given to only the most faithful
of his followers, the Heart can only be transferred upon another with
the God's blessing. Only those in great need, or in close spiritual contact
with the God may wield the Heart's powers.
Alignment:
Neutral Good
Primary Abilities:
Detect Magic, 10' Radius Always
Read Magic Always
Grant AC2 to Wielder Always
Extraordinary Powers:
ESP 1/day
Clairaudience 1/day
Clairvoyance 1/day
Legend Lore 1/wk
True Seeing 1/wk
Vision 1/mo
Heal 1/mo
Special Purpose:
The perpetuation of Magic
Special Purpose Power:
Foresight
Meteor Swam
Prismatic Sphere
Drawbacks:
1) Anyone that sees the Artifact in use covets it, Save vs. Spells -5
to avoid effect.
2) Wielder becomes more dependent with each use, Save vs. Spells at -3
to avoid effect. If wielder fails 10 saves, he/she becomes bonded to item
and cannot be removed more than half a mile from it without dying within
a week. If he/she becomes reun
|
