From
Xenzie: According
to the rules he is correct in all accounts. Any time a creature
is flat-footed or flanked the rogue gets his sneak attack
bonuses. This applies whether or not the creature is facing
him or not (it's a sneak attack not a back-stab). Only creature's
that are never flat-footed can't be sneak attacked, unless
they are flanked, unless they are immune to flanking also.
This also means that you can sneak attack every attack if
you have more than one if you meet the requirements for a
sneak attack, not just the first attack or first round. This
makes Rogue's sneak attack very useful and very deadly. However
some DMs may not like the power of the ability and limit it
to sneak attack rounds, talk with the GM about it. Xen
I would once again like to state that a rogue sneak attack
is not a BACKSTAB. It's a quick attack that makes it through
defense and armor to hit a vital area of the body, thus causing
more damage than a normal strike. A sneak attack could be
anything from a kidney punch, a groin shot, to a poke in the
eye. It's hitting a vital spot not stabing someone in the
back. So facing and whether or not the person knows you are
there is not the point. Xen
From Array50: I
have always treated sneak attacks in a simple way, the reason
it is a sneak attack is that the monster/villains/polotention/ect.
DOESN'T know the rouge is there. Once the rouge has made it,
the victim knows he is there, doesn't matter if he tuns around
(Which I would never do myself.) Take the described moment
, a monster with 2 rouges facing him, one on each side, most
of the time, he would turn sideways so he could SEE it coming
again, so one attack is all they would get for back-stab,
in my mind, any thief's solution to a fight should be "Hide
in shadows, move silent, back-stab and tumble out of the way
if the thing lives.." I have had thieves successful fight
dragons using this methodology, in lower levels, battles don't
normally last more than a round or two in my groups, if they
are going to win, they know it before the second round, if
not, they get out of the area and cover there backs. Of course
so far they haven't really been challenged (Its a new group,
I'm just warming up to them hehehehe) Just my opinion.
From Scottenkainen:
The
concept of "sneak attacks" needing complete surprise is a
holdover from previous editions, as the "back-stab" ability
of thieves. The former should work well in any powergamer's
campaign, and the latter should work well anywhere else.
From
Sean Gernant: "the
reason it is a sneak attack is that the monster/villain/polotention/ect.,
DOESN'T know the rouge is there"
I
disagree. The reason it is a sneak attack is that the rogue
has taken the time to learn how to choose his target carefully,
and since he's attacking a comparatively undefended flank,
he has the opportunity to choose his target. Instead of fighting
face to face where he has to look for an opening in his opponents
defenses, dipping his dagger in where his enemies shield/parrying
weapon isn't, he is attacking his opponents undefended areas.
He can decide to slip under the armor and through the ribs
to puncture a lung, or tap a kidney, or slice a hamstring.
a successful sneak attack is a combination of knowledge, opportunity
and intent. Rogues are slick, sneaky, smart and nasty. This
is reflected in the sneak attack.
Mark
Allen-West: The
Player's Handbook states on pg 47:
"Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is
unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she
can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Basically, any time
the rogue's target would be denied his Dexterity (whether
he actually has a dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue
flands the target, the rogue's attack deals extra damage"
THEREFORE: a rogue's sneak attack in 3E is VERY different
from the backstab in 2E. A sneak attack is an attack that
takes advantage of the rogue's opportunistic fighting style.
A rogue can sneak attack anytime he/she flanks an opponent
or the opponent loses DEX. With this in mind, in the first
part of the question; Yes, rogues may sneak attack every round
provided the correct conditions exist. As for the second question,
yes, both rogues would gain sneak attacks every round. But
even a monster/creature of dismal intelligence wouldn't stand
in the middle for very long.
I've found that playing this way does not "munckinize" nor
"powergame", it is a balance. First of all, consider how many
creatures are IMMUNE to sneak attacks. There are quite a few.
Secondly, it creates opportunities for both the GM and the
players to use strategy in combat instead of the usual "I
run in and whack it with an axe `til it dies"
Jim Kelleher:
I
agree kinda both are true. If the opponent knows of the Rouge's
presence then he/she will try to see that the Rouge has not
an opportunity to attack an undefended side. So in part that
is where the sneakiness comes in. Otherwise the rest is certainly
true and I make them SNEAK! if they run into combat their
opponent will see them coming and take defensive stances so
both are true. :)
Esper
Ranger:
Sounds
like this 2 rogue technique has story potential for the Knights
of the Dinner Table. Perhaps Stevil and Weird Pete of the
Black Hands can use it.
From
Thrandorian: This
is one of many instances where the rules and logic may part
company. There is a certain logic to the idea that an engaged
opponent is unable to protect his/her back. One could further
suggest that knowing the second thief is there and doing anything
about it are two different things. Thus the defenders awareness
of the second thief is a non-issue unless you feel that surprise
in itself makes you more easily hit.
It is
also necessary to balance what appears as real-life logic
to the need for game balance. Your scenario Jeremy, subsumes
that
the opponent will turn one way and then the other. This might
be true sometimes, with low inelegance opponents but rarely
would I think so otherwise.
Also
all action is supposed to take place simultaneously regardless
of the illusion of multi-linear time created by "initiative".
If all actions during a round take place simultaneously, then
one Thief/Rogue would have to wait till the following turn
to attack anyway and that would negate the advantage of two
Thieves/Rogues.